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#776
Grieving Natashina

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Anyway I would be over the moon if we could see wholesome, sweet gay romances in future games, like some of you guys are suggesting. And hetero romances that women can enjoy without getting their ears talked off about the guy's ex. 

Not only do I agree, but I think it's becoming more and more likely over time.  Dialogues like the one we've been having with Allen are proof to me that the industry is listening to their fans and are heeding to the good points that some are making.  Panels such as David Gaider's GDC talk from 2013 as well as Manveer Heir's GDC talk from this year are more evidence that this is something that a lot of game companies are considering.  Also, if you check the GDC vault, other companies such as Ubisoft have been addressing this as well.

 

I think it may take a bit, but I have no doubt that we'll see that sooner than we think.  I trust BioWare to continue to pioneer these ideas.


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#777
Zazzerka

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You mean my post? Well let me know specifically what you think. 

 

(The quote isn't about all straight men of course - just homophobic ones.)

 

Then this person should've changed their statement to reflect that. "Homophobic men (i.e. dickheads) are afraid that gay men will treat them the way that other dickheads treat women" would be a better way to have put it.



#778
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I know a few homophobes. Some close family. I still can't figure them out. Your guess is as good as mine.



#779
Mes

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Then this person should've changed their statement to reflect that. "Homophobic men (i.e. dickheads) are afraid that gay men will treat them the way that other dickheads treat women" would be a better way to have put it.

 

LOL!! Goodness I thought that was self-explanatory. I'll modify the post (AGAIN) to be more specific. I would never ever ever ever say something like that about an entire gender, my god. 


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#780
ahellbornlady

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I'm thinking female homosexuality being more acceptable, in any case, is still a product of the patriarchy. 

 

Someone said this one thing that has always resonated with me: Homophobic men are afraid gay men will treat them the way that men treat women. So I think you were on the money in one of your other posts where you said something along the lines of female homosexuality being less threatening.

 

Male gaze... patriarchy... same same. :P

 

Anyway I would be over the moon if we could see wholesome, sweet gay romances in future games, like some of you guys are suggesting. And hetero romances that women can enjoy without getting their ears talked off about the guy's ex. 

 

PREACH. What a perfect post. Bravo.


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#781
Grieving Natashina

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@Mes: This is why you need to be careful make sure to add words like "some" or if you talking about a group more at large, "most" to a post.  Blanket statements get ya into trouble every time.  Believe me, I know.  <hug>


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#782
Dutchess

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Not only do I agree, but I think it's becoming more and more likely over time.  Dialogues like the one we've been having with Allen are proof to me that the industry is listening to their fans and are heeding to the good points that some are making.  Panels such as David Gaider's GDC talk from 2013 as well as Manveer Heir's GDC talk from this year are more evidence that this is something that a lot of game companies are considering.  Also, if you check the GDC vault, other companies such as Ubisoft have been addressing this as well.

 

I think it may take a bit, but I have no doubt that we'll see that sooner than we think.  I trust BioWare to continue to pioneer these ideas.

 

I don't know something about Gaider/other Bioware representatives talking about the representation of females in games (I think that was what the GDC talk was, right? There were also two articles about a couple of months ago) rubs me the wrong way, as it boiled down to saying how they were already doing a pretty good job at it (at least that was the claim in the articles I read. Haven't listened to the GDC talk) while I feel that Bioware isn't doing as well as they seem to think they do and many people give them credit for. I often see the first Witcher game being mentioned here as being very demeaning toward women, but I took the option of Geralt sleeping around as something that was meant in good humor, and the infamous sex cards as a substitute for a more expensive animated sex scene. I am more bothered by something abnormal as female Hawke's run in DA2 being presented as something completely normal (male Hawke did not have a silly run, so supposedly his female counterpart is meant to be serious as well?), signs that the female PC was merely an afterthought, like with Mark of the Assassin's horrendous conversion of male Hawke's party outfit for female Hawke, or female Shepard sitting with her legs wide as if she were a dude, and the cleavage obsession in DA2 and Mass Effect games. Aveline is used as an excuse for Isabela's appearance (look! Uggo woman wearing armor! See, no oversexualization here) but I'm not buying it.

 

I don't know, I guess it is done with good intentions and it is good that they are giving it some thought, but somehow it leaves me annoyed. 

 

I realize this is getting off topic, so I'll try to drag it back to the romance subject. Another thing I noticed while replaying through DAO as a male Warden was the options for casual flings available to the male character. I found it funny because again it reminded me of the anti TW1 mindset while DAO is also not that innocent in that regard, although the latter does keep it a little more chaste and the flings tend to be limited to a kiss. In Redcliffe you can get a kiss from both Bella (serving girl in the tavern) and Kathlyn. The only NPC (aside from prostitutes) you can sleep with and even have a threesome (or foursome) with is female (Isabela). Meanwhile, Cullen runs away when a female mage tries to get it on. :P These examples don't really bother me. I found them rather amusing (Morrigan's reactions are funny when you kiss Bella or go with Isabela), but it does hint again at something of a double standard here. I don't recall opportunities for my female wardens to steal a kiss from a random NPC. Only Cousland gets to choose between a guy and a girl to sleep with. You can flirt with Teagan, but nothing happens.


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#783
Grieving Natashina

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In both of those talks, they admit to that they are more aware, but they still have a long way to go.   You should probably watch both panels for yourself before you judge.  Stating that they are "pretty good" at their handling is more than fair, but also true.  Please bare in mind that whomever wrote those articles probably put their own spin on it.  In short, perhaps some of the praise that you've seen as BioWare patting themselves on the back has been coming from the way the writers themselves decide to write the piece.   

 

Edit: PM sent.  If anyone else wants the links for both 2013 David Gaider panel and the 2014 panel from this year by Manveer Heir, I have both links.  PM me and I'll be happy to set you up.



#784
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I wonder if no romances at all would make people happy than these imbalances I'm hearing about.

 

It seems the easiest (and cheapest) way to solve the problem is have nothing. Like Awakening. That way everyone is on an equal footing.

 

Personally, I don't mind. I like Awakening.


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#785
Mes

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I wonder if no romances at all would make people happy that these imbalances I'm hearing about.

 

It seems the easiest (and cheapest) way to solve the problem is have nothing. Like Awakening. That way everyone is on an equal footing.

 

Better to keep working on issues and moving forward than just giving up completely, in my opinion.

 

Edit: Not to mention these "issues" end up opening up a lot of dialogue about real life, ourselves, our perceptions that might otherwise not have existed.


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#786
Grieving Natashina

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Better to keep working on issues and moving forward than just giving up completely, in my opinion.

Yeah and it's been made very clear that at least BioWare has no plans on giving up.



#787
Darth Krytie

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I wonder if no romances at all would make people happy than these imbalances I'm hearing about.

 

It seems the easiest (and cheapest) way to solve the problem is have nothing. Like Awakening. That way everyone is on an equal footing.

 

Personally, I don't mind. I like Awakening.

 

Awakening isn't really the most fair choice to set up as even though it had no new romances, it did have nods to your Origins romance. I know that all those times I played human nobel, Allistair came along in the beginning and gave me smoochies. And I got a letter in other cases. So, it's not devoid of any sort of romance at all.


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#788
ahellbornlady

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Awakening isn't really the most fair choice to set up as even though it had no new romances, it did have nods to your Origins romance. I know that all those times I played human nobel, Allistair came along in the beginning and gave me smoochies. And I got a letter in other cases. So, it's not devoid of any sort of romance at all.

 

I remember when I gave Anders Ser Pounce-A-Lot my approval rating went from "friendly" to "love".

 

I'm pretty sure Justice "loved" me too, which was creepy. Was that just a glitch? Did they love me as a friend??


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#789
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I remember when I gave Anders Ser Pounce-A-Lot my approval rating went from "friendly" to "love".

 

I'm pretty sure Justice "loved" me too, which was creepy. Was that just a glitch? Did they love me as a friend??

 

Justice stared at you when you were sleeping.


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#790
Grieving Natashina

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Awakening isn't really the most fair choice to set up as even though it had no new romances, it did have nods to your Origins romance. I know that all those times I played human noble, Allistair came along in the beginning and gave me smoochies. And I got a letter in other cases. So, it's not devoid of any sort of romance at all.

Plus, Awakening was an expansion, not a stand alone game.  While I would buy a future BioWare IP if it didn't contain romances, I would be hurt if they just took it out of Dragon Age.  Particularly the pansexual relationships that have been made available have added to my replay value.  I have romanced Anders as a straight woman: Fenris as a bisexual woman: Isabela as a lesbian and Merrill as a straight man.  This adds a lot to my experience and also gives me a way to see the world through different eyes.  

 

Which is one of big reasons why I've loved RPGs since 1988 and I learned what a d20 was.  To see the world in ways outside of my own views and perspectives.  ;)

 

 

Justice stared at you when you were sleeping.

So did Shale.  Doesn't make it a romantic gesture, is all I'm saying.

 

 

I remember when I gave Anders Ser Pounce-A-Lot my approval rating went from "friendly" to "love".

 

I'm pretty sure Justice "loved" me too, which was creepy. Was that just a glitch? Did they love me as a friend??

Yeah, well Oghren "loved" me too, as did Sigrun.  That game was very buggy, unfortunately.


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#791
Darth Krytie

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I remember when I gave Anders Ser Pounce-A-Lot my approval rating went from "friendly" to "love".

 

I'm pretty sure Justice "loved" me too, which was creepy. Was that just a glitch? Did they love me as a friend??

 

Justice loved you with all of his zombie heart forever and ever. He'd even break off a special piece of himself for you to take with you. King Missile wrote a song about it.


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#792
ahellbornlady

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Justice stared at you when you were sleeping.

 

I guess I ended up sleeping with both of them in DA2, in a way...


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#793
Grieving Natashina

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Justice loved you with all of his zombie heart forever and ever. He'd even break off a special piece of himself for you to take with you. King Missile wrote a song about it.

You made soda damn near come out of my nose with that reference.  Nice job!


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#794
Hanako Ikezawa

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I remember when I gave Anders Ser Pounce-A-Lot my approval rating went from "friendly" to "love".

 

I'm pretty sure Justice "loved" me too, which was creepy. Was that just a glitch? Did they love me as a friend??

There's a difference between "love" and "in love".



#795
Grieving Natashina

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There's a difference between "love" and "in love".

Not according to Origins.  I just chalked it up as yet another bug in Awakening, and moved on.  



#796
Hanako Ikezawa

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Not according to Origins.  I just chalked it up as yet another bug in Awakening, and moved on.  

Wait, what?



#797
ahellbornlady

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I just want to say I totally agree about wanting female characters to have more "options", as it were. Like why the hell couldn't I kiss Bann Teagan if I wanted, or Jowan or Cullen or whoever else? Why do only male wardens get random NPC kisses?


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#798
Grieving Natashina

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Wait, what?

If you were maxed on the affection meter with Origins and it wasn't a romance, you had "warm" on your tooltip when you moused over that companion.  For Awakening, I think the "love" instead of "warm" tool tip at max affection is a bug.  That's what I meant; on a game play level, "love" was only for your LI that you were pursuing in Origins.  I wasn't talking about that on a story level.  



#799
elyu

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I couldn't care less about the other LIs as long as Solas is one. I'm trying not to expect too much but then again there has always been a male elf LI...

I wonder if they'll make all the LIs bisexual again. I hope so.
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#800
Dutchess

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I just want to say I totally agree about wanting female characters to have more "options", as it were. Like why the hell couldn't I kiss Bann Teagan if I wanted, or Jowan or Cullen or whoever else? Why do only male wardens get random NPC kisses?

 

Heh, Jowan friendzones you. No, familyzones you. He sees you as a sister if you ask him why the two of you never got together.  :rolleyes:


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