2090 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

he/she said "good game" 

So did Mocking and in this case, I agree with him.  There are plenty of good games out there that have no romance subplots at all.

[Zered]

There are plenty of good games that don't have "romance", I dunno where we're getting this idea that the gaming industry is suddenly overwhelmed by romantic sideplots.

 

Good CRPG games as in Bioware or CD-Projekt Red standard. Not many of those on the market of late.

 

One that comes to mind is Skyrim. Other ideas? I could use a good game 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Good CRPG games as in Bioware or CD-Projekt Red standard. Not many of those on the market of late.

 

How do you feel about Old Skool graphics, a cyberpunk setting, no voicing and turn-based tactical combat? Because if you like and/or don't mind those things, I can thoroughly recommend Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall. The original campaign was OK, but the DLC is much better. It's a stand-alone campaign with one of the best CRPG stories I've seen lately. Lots of interesting choices. And no romances  . Then there's Pillars of Eternity, but to be fair you can't play that now.

 

Edit: I wanted to mention that this has been the most civilized thread I've ever seen on any incarnation of the BioWare forums regarding this subject behind female PC and LGTBQ romances as well as more representation for those groups as a whole.  No one's trolling, everyone's discussing their beliefs in a constructive and thoughtful manner...I'm really enjoying this.

 

By some miracle, the forums actually seem to be getting better at discussing these things. We had that thread about bisexual love interests that went for, what, ninety pages? before it had to be shut down as well. I remember right after DA2 we couldn't get three pages into one of those before someone started hurling abuse.

[TurretSyndrome]

I wish Bioware would actually consider developing a Dragon Age game where there are no romances for once. I think it would make them more focused on the story aspect of the game and bring about a more fleshed out gaming experience overall. After DA 2, too many times I felt that these romances are just not worth the weight they carry, that their inclusion and the amount of work being put in them tends to divide the focus of the writers decreasing the overall narrative quality of the game. After all, they are working in a limited time frame.

 

So if ever they are considering a new direction, I hope they give it a thought instead of making romance, a staple in their franchise to appease some fans and satisfy their romantic fantasies.

[daveliam]

Romances are part of the story......

 

What you meant to say was "....focus on the parts of the story aspect that I enjoy playing more and bring about a more fleshed out gaming experience according to what I value in games......"

[Lebanese Dude]

I just don't understand why people detest the presence of a romantic subplot.

Intimate relationships naturally develop in any social environment. Given that companion relationships are a necessary staple in any party based RPG, then it is only sensible to allow us to choose our own relationship status, through provided frameworks or head canon.

In any case, If you are a person that has trouble connecting with characters because they exist in a computer, then I'm of the opinion that you just don't connect with people in life as well. Empathy and camaraderie are NOT restricted to reality.

Characters in games represent archetypes that exist in the real world. Their traits, habits, speech patterns, etc all form an individual that we, as people, can interact with as if it were in reality. Naturally, some appeal more to us than others. Some represent those that we would like to be with and RP games should allow us that.

[Grieving Natashina]

I just don't understand why people detest the presence of a romantic subplot.
 

 

The main argument I've heard was, "It takes away resources from other parts of the game.  It's just a stupid waste of money and if folks want a romance, they should play something else.  Dragon Age isn't a dating sim, lol."  

 

Note: That isn't directed towards anyone in the thread, but rather a general statement that I have heard more than a few times before.

[Degenerate Rakia Time]

I wish Bioware would actually consider developing a Dragon Age game where there are no romances for once. I think it would make them more focused on the story aspect of the game and bring about a more fleshed out gaming experience overall. After DA 2, too many times I felt that these romances are just not worth the weight they carry, that their inclusion and the amount of work being put in them tends to divide the focus of the writers decreasing the overall narrative quality of the game. After all, they are working in a limited time frame.

 

So if ever they are considering a new direction, I hope they give it a thought instead of making romance, a staple in their franchise to appease some fans and satisfy their romantic fantasies.

Awakening didnt have romances and in my opinion it was very far from a "fleshed out gaming experience", also, Bioware themselves say characters are the strongest part of their games and romances are just a natural extention of the level of character interaction expected in a Bioware game

 

 

However, they could make a game where all the characters are eunuchs

[daveliam]

I think that people who aren't into romances get frustrated by the sheer amount of romance-focused threads on the boards.  I can understand that to a point because it is a fairly small portion of the gameplay experience when viewed in a quantitative manner. 

 

However, two things I don't understand:  1.). Quantity does not equal quality.  Just because it's a small portion of the game, doesn't mean that it can't add a disproportionate amount of enjoyment to someone's experience; and 2.). There are about a hundred threads on the forums that I will never go into because I'm not terribly interested in the topic and don't have much of an opinion.  I'm happy to stay out of those threads, so I don't understand those who feel the need to go into romance threads to discuss how much they don't enjoy or need those as part of their experience.  I'd understand it more if it was done respectfully (like a counterpoint to a point), but it's often laced with underlying insults about "romantic fantasies" and whatnot, so it comes across as rude and aggressive.  I don't see the point in that case.

 

Just my opinion though.

[RynJ]

I always disliked the "dating sim" argument. To me, the romances help to really flesh out the characters and gives you more insight into their motivations and personalities and what's important to them and in turn you can further flesh out your own character with your reactions to and interactions with those companions. I always felt closer to companions when given the option to romance them and it helps to really boost the feeling of connection with your companions and through that connection, many things that happen in the game matter more. When you romanced and cared about Isabela, the Qunari plot took on a whole other meaning, when you romance Alistair, you feel more involved in how the end game can affect him, etc. BioWare makes some awesome, well-rounded companions and anything that lets me get closer to them is a huge plus in my book.

 

All in all romances aren't a HUGE part of the game the way some people act like it is (which creates the 'dating sim' argument) but the way they strengthen how much you care about events through caring about those companions is what makes them worth it. At least, in my opinion! I'd be very sad if romance was done away with, even if it wouldn't be a complete deal-breaker.

[werewoof]

i stand by the theory that it's because romance is one of the more "girly" elements of the game. it's safe to talk in depth about the lore, the combat, the gameplay, the graphics, etc. because those can be easily construed as acceptable elements to the game but the second you want to discuss the romance, it doesn't rack up enough serious gamer points. especially because it's romance, dealing with feelings and appealing to people who aren't straight dudes, not just plowing your way through a game full of hot babes as quest rewards.

 

there's usually a lot of fuss about it not being "essential to the game" but i'm fairly certain most of the things they cherish (that zoom out thing in origins, tactical style gameplay) aren't essential to the game either since it can technically function without them so i'm not sure where they're going with that.

[TurretSyndrome]

Awakening didnt have romances and in my opinion it was very far from a "fleshed out gaming experience", also, Bioware themselves say characters are the strongest part of their games and romances are just a natural extention of the level of character interaction expected in a Bioware game

 

 

However, they could make a game where all the characters are eunuchs

 

Neither did Leliana's song or Golems of Amgarrak or any other DLCs because that is what they are? Characters and romances are not so intertwined with eachother as you may think. There are plenty of characters both in and out of Dragon Age who are proof of that. Romances need not be the next level of interaction with a character, if that's the only way you think the character interaction can be done, you are close minded in this. 

 

@daveliam No they are not. Romances are just added interactions with the characters, they do not add anything more to the actual story of the game. And to the rest of your post, the same could be said about you and the people who love romances and want them to be in every game they play. Romances do not need to play an important part in all stories, an example where they do play a role to drive the story is Prince of Persia 2008, an even better one is The Sands of Time. You are fooling yourself if you think they are always as central to the game as the rest of it, especially when it comes to DA. 

[Sylvianus]

 I'm happy to stay out of those threads, so I don't understand those who feel the need to go into romance threads to discuss how much they don't enjoy or need those as part of their experience.  I'd understand it more if it was done respectfully (like a counterpoint to a point), but it's often laced with underlying insults about "romantic fantasies" and whatnot, so it comes across as rude and aggressive.  I don't see the point in that case.

 

Just my opinion though.

 

That's because they feel threatened by their popularity. There are absolutely no threads that are so much discussed on the forum. ( mechanics gameplay, etc ) Because of that, they fear that Bioware might pay too much attention to these threads, deepening then this area in futures games, which is clearly what they don't want to see happen. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

i don't understand something here. are romances compulsory in DAI? they weren't in previous titles... so what's the fuss is about?

[Allan Schumacher]

So if ever they are considering a new direction, I hope they give it a thought instead of making romance, a staple in their franchise to appease some fans and satisfy their romantic fantasies.

 

The problem with framing the discussion like this is that I could frame anything as being "appeasing" to the group of fans that seek such a particular thing.  BioWare not having romances could be "appeasing" people that don't like romance.  It's a phrasing that is going to put people on the defensive when it's not necessary.

 

 

@daveliam No they are not. Romances are just added interactions with the characters, they do not add anything more to the actual story of the game.

 

Well, I think it's a case of people interpreting things differently.  For some, the story is the sum of all the interactions in the game, and I think that that is a perfectly valid perspective.  It's fine if romance content isn't content that particularly appeals to you.  I think that this thread shows that the content is valued by others too, however.

[Grieving Natashina]

I figure that if folks feel strongly enough about having BioWare take out romances from existing IPs or why they shouldn't be in future ones, they should start a thread.  Perhaps offer some constructive ideas and alternatives rather than "It's a waste of resources catering to the desires of lonely gamers."  

[Sylvianus]

I figure that if folks feel strongly enough about having BioWare take out romances from existing IPs or why they shouldn't be in future ones, they should start a thread.  Perhaps offer some constructive ideas and alternatives rather than "It's a waste of resources catering to the desires of lonely gamers."  

 

To be fair, I'm quite certain that a lot of dragon age romance fans would quickly jump on the thread telling how they would be disappointed, how they are against the romances removed, how there would be riots on the forum. That would be finally the same discussion. 

 

I remember in the past one or two folks creating a topic and arguing against romances, well that didn't take long before legions of romance fans come to fight this absurd idea.

[AresKeith]

Yeah and it's been made very clear that at least BioWare has no plans on giving up.

 

Well giving up and wanting to try something new are two different things

[daveliam]

@ TurretSyndrome:  I have no intention of getting into a flame war with you, but I would like you to go back through this thread and actually read what I've stated.  If you did, then you would see that not only do I not state that romances are an essential part of the story, but that quantitatively, they are a small (yet, I argue, disproportionately enjoyable) portion of the storyline.  Additionally, you would also see that I state that I would buy a Bioware game without romances. 

 

You claim that romances aren't part of the storylines, but I don't agree with your statement at all.  Character development is an essential part of the storylines and the romance arcs directly influence character development in the main storylines for most of the romanceable characters.  You can argue that they aren't part of the story because you don't want them to be, but it doesn't make that the truth.

 

Finally, if you were to come into the thread and use reasoned logic and polite discussion, you would perhaps not receive numerous people dismissing your points.  Instead, you come into a thread and use veiled insults and hyperbole as if lends credence to your arguments.  I'd be happy to continue the conversation with you, but I won't do so if you continue to use the tone that you are using.

[Grieving Natashina]

To be fair, I'm quite certain that a lot of dragon age romance fans would quickly jump on the thread telling how they would be disappointed, how they are against the romances removed, how there would be riots on the forum. That would be finally the same discussion. 

 

I remember in the past one or two folks creating a topic and arguing against romances, well that didn't take long before legions of romance fans come to fight this absurd idea.

Heh, that's fair enough.  

[TurretSyndrome]

The problem with framing the discussion like this is that I could frame anything as being "appeasing" to the group of fans that seek such a particular thing.  BioWare not having romances could be "appeasing" people that don't like romance.  It's a phrasing that is going to put people on the defensive when it's not necessary.

 

Well, I think it's a case of people interpreting things differently.  For some, the story is the sum of all the interactions in the game, and I think that that is a perfectly valid perspective.  It's fine if romance content isn't content that particularly appeals to you.  I think that this thread shows that the content is valued by others too, however.

 

It can be interpreted as such, but I don't believe that is what will be intended. Just as including romances are intended to appeal to some people and not as an insult to people who are asexual or wish to not be hit on by NPCs in the game, even though again, it can be interpreted as such.

 

 There are many interactions in the game that do not drive the story or are required for it to progress, so for a game like DA it can't be said that romance is somehow central to it. Indulging in one may affect a line or two in the ending but it neither stops or changes the storyline in anyway. Sure it can be interpreted as a necessity for some but it is so only in their minds, the game however moves forward with or without it. 

 

Also, my appeal of romances in the games is really irrelevant to my wish for Bioware to make a game in the franchise without stapling romances to it. As long as it is not central to the story, it will always be side content that a game can do without. 

[Sylvianus]

By the way, I agree with everyone defending the romances as a good thing useful. Focus on characters and characters interactions are the strenght of Bioware, and the romance content is definitely a part of character interactions and focus on characters since it expands their personality and how they could behave in private relationship and intimacy, in an area that has not been explored elsewhere regarding the plot. 

[Abelas Forever!]

The issue is more the lack of choice a straight female Shepard is offered in comparison. This thread now seems to be completely about homosexual relationships, but actually, I feel the straight female character has been getting the short end of the stick in most Bioware games too. It is the most difficult for a straight female to get a happy ending with her lover. Only the straight female can get dumped by her romance (Alistair and Jacob). Only the straight female's romance gets killed no matter what (Thane) instead of saving them by meeting certain conditions (Tali and Miranda) or has to let her romance sleep with someone else to have them both live (Alistair). Only the straight female is deceived by her romance (Anders, though that's what you get for getting in a relationship with an abomination to begin with). Though this last one also applies for the homosexual male character, as DA2's options for those were the same. 

I agree. I think that I could understand what happened with Thane because I guessed that the relationship wouldn't end well. However I was hoping that it would. But Jacob also. C'mon! I understand why Alistair isn't interested in you after he has become a king if you are not noble but it could have been otherwise. You could have persuaded him to marry you even if you are not noble. This is a fantasy game we are talking about and of course there was that dark ritual.. I hated it because I hadn't any choice if I wanted to have a happy ending with my protagonist and her LI which I always want. Well, if they die together that is also ok.

 

I just don't understand why people detest the presence of a romantic subplot.

Intimate relationships naturally develop in any social environment. Given that companion relationships are a necessary staple in any party based RPG, then it is only sensible to allow us to choose our own relationship status, through provided frameworks or head canon.

In any case, If you are a person that has trouble connecting with characters because they exist in a computer, then I'm of the opinion that you just don't connect with people in life as well. Empathy and camaraderie are NOT restricted to reality.

Characters in games represent archetypes that exist in the real world. Their traits, habits, speech patterns, etc all form an individual that we, as people, can interact with as if it were in reality. Naturally, some appeal more to us than others. Some represent those that we would like to be with and RP games should allow us that.

I agree. I think it would be quite natural for the protagonist to have a partner or multiple partners because people have them in normal life.  So why not in game. For having multiple LI's in game doesn't make it a dating sim if there are other content as well. I think it just makes the game more real and interesting.

 

Edit: When I say multiple partners I mean not at the same time. However some might want that too.

[TKavatar]

I'm not against romances, but I don't like the fact that you can make everyone jump in bed with you by just pressing the heart icon and giving gifts. You can be a blood mage and romance Fenris. You can be extremely pro Templar and insult Anders at every turn and still he's willing to bang you.

The romance system needs an overhaul IMO.

[Grieving Natashina]

That's because they feel threatened by their popularity. There are absolutely no threads that are so much discussed on the forum. ( mechanics gameplay, etc ) Because of that, they fear that Bioware might pay too much attention to these threads, deepening then this area in futures games, which is clearly what they don't want to see happen. 

And yet they keep bumping this threads and making sure where it can be read by more people.  It makes me chuckle.  You'd think the folks that were against this content might, I don't know, write BioWare or do something more productive than bump a thread on a subject that they hate.