2090 réponses à ce sujet

[Tamyn]

One thing I liked about Alistair's romance was there were so many avenues to get on the romance track. It wasn't just structured events where if you skip a certain flirt line you miss out, so you reflexively hit every flirt instead of role play just in case. (I find myself doing that in SWTOR because you can't reload a saved game.) With Alistair, you can reply to his flirt with a flirt, you can initialize a flirt, or you can more subtly suggest your affection (by saying you care about him in certain dialogues). Most of his dialogues went at the player's pace. If all else failed, you had the "Has anyone ever told you how handsome you are?" which was an obvious romance starter. One helpful indicator of the romance being active was the affection bar, when it shifted from "warm" to "interested" for example. Another indicator was the different ways the companion responded when you talked to them, changing depending on how far you were progressed in the romance.

 

In contrast, with Fenris in DAII and the heart icon and the sequential talks, I don't know which is the flirt that puts you on the romance track, and which ones are just for fun. I don't know if it only takes one flirt to start the romance or if it is a particular flirt and I can't tell I'm in the romance until the one night stand event. I would rather play my toon as someone who isn't constantly spouting cheesy come-ons (because I'm worried about missing the romance window), but instead indicates affection when it's appropriate for her.

[Grieving Natashina]

Yeah. Unless some story event changes things, I think Varric will stay loyal to Bianca.

That's my guess too, as much I would wish otherwise.  Still, here's to hoping that those (like me) that wish to romance Varric get him as LI.  I do know that if he isn't it won't break my heart.  I'm just happy to journey with him again.  

[Maria Caliban]

In my first playthrough of DA II, I flirted with Merrill once and then about 8 hours later, she told me she was attracted to me. I flirted with Aveline over and over again, but she preferred Ser Muttonchop.

I see the heart icon just like the other ones: it indicates the tone you want to take with this conversation.

In my mind, the solution to the heart icon problem is to simply use is more. Give us the ability to flirt with a wide range of people who may or may not show interest or appreciate the attention.

[TKavatar]

One challenge is that, part of the issue with even just 5 years ago is that our comfort and familiarity level with this sort of stuff has grown (Mine almost immeasurably so).  Keeping a character bound purely based on "what we saw" from a previous game, when it needn't ought to be is unnecessary IMO.  I think it also moves into a problematic area where, for example, a bisexual character can only be bisexual if that character only makes explicit commentary that when it comes to romances, they like both genders.

Fair enough I suppose. To be honest I still would find it a bit odd when a person keeps talking about how much he liked girls for the past 10 years and bang of all a sudden the next year "I like both girls and boys". I wouldn't have any problem with it once I had time to process it though just like I would be IRL.

[Grieving Natashina]

Fair enough I suppose. To be honest I still would find it a bit odd when a person keeps talking about how much he liked girls for the past 10 years and bang of all a sudden the next year "I like both girls and boys". I wouldn't have any problem with it once I had time to process it though just like I would be IRL.

This is one of the most reasonable stances I've ever seen with players that are reluctant to have all companions pansexual/player sexual.  Kudos to you!  

[esper]

In my first playthrough of DA II, I flirted with Merrill once and then about 8 hours later, she told me she was attracted to me. I flirted with Aveline over and over again, but she preferred Ser Muttonchop.

I see the heart icon just like the other ones: it indicates the tone you want to take with this conversation.

In my mind, the solution to the heart icon problem is to simply use is more. Give us the ability to flirt with a wide range of people who may or may not show interest or appreciate the attention.

 

Adding to this. The heart icon should be a permenent on whatever is the 'tone' wheel in da:I. Because some people are permenent flirts... and it completely remove the heart = win condition that some sees.

[Vapaa]

Fair enough I suppose. To be honest I still would find it a bit odd when a person keeps talking about how much he liked girls for the past 10 years and bang of all a sudden the next year "I like both girls and boys". I wouldn't have any problem with it once I had time to process it though just like I would be IRL.

 

But that brings up, again, the problem of metagaming, Cullen only has that crush if the Warden is a Female mage...if the Warden has any other origin, he could be asexual for all we know.

[TKavatar]

This is one of the most reasonable stances I've ever seen with players that are reluctant to have all companions pansexual/player sexual.  Kudos to you!  

Thanks.

To be honest I would very much prefer set sexualities but from the way Allan is going on I think all LIs will be playersexual from now on. I've accepted that and I won't mind it as long as their stories feel organic and not 'tacked on' as an afterthought.

[TKavatar]

But that brings up, again, the problem of metagaming, Cullen only has that crush if the Warden is a Female mage...if the Warden has any other origin, he could be asexual for all we know.

I was referring to Varric in my case.

[Vapaa]

I was referring to Varric in my case.

 

D'oh !

[Grieving Natashina]

Thanks.

To be honest I would very much prefer set sexualities but from the way Allan is going on I think all LIs will be playersexual from now on. I've accepted that and I won't mind it as long as their stories feel organic and not 'tacked on' as an afterthought.

I guess I've never felt that the romances were "tacked on" even in DA2, but I can see where you're coming from.  I'm glad you're keeping an open mind.  It's really nice to see from someone that doesn't necessarily want player sexuality willing to give it a shot.  If it helps you feel any better, this game has had a far far longer development time than DA2.  If you liked the romances in Origins, we have a very good chance of getting that level of depth back.  With or without a set sexuality.  

[Dutchess]

One thing I liked about Alistair's romance was there were so many avenues to get on the romance track. It wasn't just structured events where if you skip a certain flirt line you miss out, so you reflexively hit every flirt instead of role play just in case. (I find myself doing that in SWTOR because you can't reload a saved game.) With Alistair, you can reply to his flirt with a flirt, you can initialize a flirt, or you can more subtly suggest your affection (by saying you care about him in certain dialogues). Most of his dialogues went at the player's pace. If all else failed, you had the "Has anyone ever told you how handsome you are?" which was an obvious romance starter. One helpful indicator of the romance being active was the affection bar, when it shifted from "warm" to "interested" for example. Another indicator was the different ways the companion responded when you talked to them, changing depending on how far you were progressed in the romance.

 

In contrast, with Fenris in DAII and the heart icon and the sequential talks, I don't know which is the flirt that puts you on the romance track, and which ones are just for fun. I don't know if it only takes one flirt to start the romance or if it is a particular flirt and I can't tell I'm in the romance until the one night stand event. I would rather play my toon as someone who isn't constantly spouting cheesy come-ons (because I'm worried about missing the romance window), but instead indicates affection when it's appropriate for her.

 

Agreed. You had a lot more options in DAO it seemed. Different approaches, and you could set the pace. The NPC can invite the PC to their tent once they reach a certain approval level, but the player can also take the initiative here and extend the invitation first. Or you can decline the NPC and wait for a later moment. I turned down Zev's massage for the first time recently ("not here, not now") and had my Warden invite him to his tent later. The whole approach and Zev's reaction was different, with him more teasing and playing coy for a while and some dialogue options ended the conversation without resulting in tent time. Asking again for him to join you led to him saying he seemed to recall hearing that invitation before and still would like to hear what they were supposed to do there. It was hilarious and felt very different from accepting Zev's initial offer. 

 

In DA2 you indeed have nu clue which flirts are "essential" for the romance to lock in/remain active, and which are just (cheesy) pickup lines. In DAO one was enough and then you could continue picking and choosing which options you wanted and thought fitting for the situation. When I wanted to romance a character in DA2, I always chose the heart option, just to be save. This meant having to endure some obnoxious flirty remarks which would have felt more optional in DAO (I can choose to tell Alistair I dream of him and me having wild, steamy sex, but I don't have to as I know there are other ways to trigger his romance). The worst was Sebastian. My nice/diplomatic Hawke kept sounding like a perv who wanted nothing but sex and even offered herself up as a one-night stand eventually. Charming. That this relationship culminates in a chaste marriage is even more laughable. 

The pace is also completely determined by the NPC in DA2. They show up at your house at some point "OKAY, I'M READY. TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES" and you have to take it or completely end the romance. There is no opportunity to say you are not ready yet, feel it's not the right time, etc. Just lie down and after that the NPC will go back to not talking to you (how many times I've clicked on Fenris...).

[AddieTheElf]

Agreed. You had a lot more options in DAO it seemed. Different approaches, and you could set the pace. The NPC can invite the PC to their tent once they reach a certain approval level, but the player can also take the initiative here and extend the invitation first. Or you can decline the NPC and wait for a later moment. I turned down Zev's massage for the first time recently ("not here, not now") and had my Warden invite him to his tent later. The whole approach and Zev's reaction was different, with him more teasing and playing coy for a while and some dialogue options ended the conversation without resulting in tent time. Asking again for him to join you led to him saying he seemed to recall hearing that invitation before and still would like to hear what they were supposed to do there. It was hilarious and felt very different from accepting Zev's initial offer. 

 

In DA2 you indeed have nu clue which flirts are "essential" for the romance to lock in/remain active, and which are just (cheesy) pickup lines. In DAO one was enough and then you could continue picking and choosing which options you wanted and thought fitting for the situation. When I wanted to romance a character in DA2, I always chose the heart option, just to be save. This meant having to endure some obnoxious flirty remarks which would have felt more optional in DAO (I can choose to tell Alistair I dream of him and me having wild, steamy sex, but I don't have to as I know there are other ways to trigger his romance). The worst was Sebastian. My nice/diplomatic Hawke kept sounding like a perv who wanted nothing but sex and even offered herself up as a one-night stand eventually. Charming. That this relationship culminates in a chaste marriage is even more laughable. 

The pace is also completely determined by the NPC in DA2. They show up at your house at some point "OKAY, I'M READY. TAKE OFF YOUR CLOTHES" and you have to take it or completely end the romance. There is no opportunity to say you are not ready yet, feel it's not the right time, etc. Just lie down and after that the NPC will go back to not talking to you (how many times I've clicked on Fenris...).

 

i seem to have run out of likes. this was something I didn't really notice, but it's jarring now that it's been pointed out... hmm maybe there should be more than one flirt option on the wheel at some times? - and some flirt options that just wont work. like take the Sebastian thing, i think the flirts there should be different, like flirting with sex probably should have offended him since you know his stance on it? But apparently its in his character to like that sort of flirting. I'm not sure, it does seem to be that origins just had so much more flirt options - or at least opportunities?

[Phate Phoenix]

I really like the idea of having more Flirt lines, especially ones that do not work. Well, how about the opposite: Flirt lines that hurt your chances of a romance?

 

Lets take Anders again. There's a flirt line immediately after Anders confesses he and Justice have merged. Instead of feeling flattered, perhaps Anders gets upset because his friend is dead/Tranquil, and now is not the time. It would make Flirt lines more... context sensitive, and even tone-sensitive. Maybe one LI isn't affected by Noble Flirts and prefers Direct Flirts. Something like that to make Flirting seem less like an instant WIN button.

[TKavatar]

I really like the idea of having more Flirt lines, especially ones that do not work. Well, how about the opposite: Flirt lines that hurt your chances of a romance?
 
Lets take Anders again. There's a flirt line immediately after Anders confesses he and Justice have merged. Instead of feeling flattered, perhaps Anders gets upset because his friend is dead/Tranquil, and now is not the time. It would make Flirt lines more... context sensitive, and even tone-sensitive. Maybe one LI isn't affected by Noble Flirts and prefers Direct Flirts. Something like that to make Flirting seem less like an instant WIN button.

Oh I like this one.

[Phate Phoenix]

CULLEN CONFIRMED AS ROMANCE

 

AS IS CASSANDRA

[DragonRacer]

Fair enough I suppose. To be honest I still would find it a bit odd when a person keeps talking about how much he liked girls for the past 10 years and bang of all a sudden the next year "I like both girls and boys". I wouldn't have any problem with it once I had time to process it though just like I would be IRL.

 

I felt the same way, once.

 

And then my best guy friend in college - who I'd tried to ask out a few times and who very much flirted with girls or made sexual innuendo/jokes with me and other girls - came out as being homosexual his sophomore year. The random flirting pretty much disappeared after that, although we're still both fans of making lewd sexual innuendo jokes with each other because that's just how we roll... as a brother/sister type of relationship these days, six years later.

 

So, the way people present themselves sexually in public may not necessarily be true, if they feel a need to try and mask their real preferences due to fear/societal expectations/confusion/etc.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[DragonRacer]

CULLEN CONFIRMED AS ROMANCE

 

AS IS CASSANDRA

 

WAIT, WHAT?

 

WHAT JUST HAPPENED? *RUNS OFF TO TWITTER THREAD*

[TKavatar]

I felt the same way, once.
 
And then my best guy friend in college - who I'd tried to ask out a few times and who very much flirted with girls or made sexual innuendo/jokes with me and other girls - came out as being homosexual his sophomore year. The random flirting pretty much disappeared after that, although we're still both fans of making lewd sexual innuendo jokes with each other because that's just how we roll... as a brother/sister type of relationship these days, six years later.
 
So, the way people present themselves sexually in public may not necessarily be true, if they feel a need to try and mask their real preferences due to fear/societal expectations/confusion/etc.
 
Just my 2 cents.

Yeah but Thedas is a pretty sexually progressive place, it would be more odd if Varric ( who I was referring to in my example) came out all of a sudden. Why would he need to hide his sexuality?

[DragonRacer]

Yeah but Thedas is a pretty sexually progressive place, it would be more odd if Varric ( who I was referring to in my example) came out all of a sudden. Why would he need to hide his sexuality?

 

I don't necessarily disagree.

 

I am just a female Varric fan clinging to some possible hope that he'll end up a romance. And guessing if romances are playersexual again, that means I'm starting the M/M reasoning in my head because I want my F/M to exist pretty badly.

[Allan Schumacher]

I was referring to Varric in my case.

 

I was referring more to Cullen

[pallascedar]

I was referring more to Cullen

You timed it like this on purpose. Sneaky.

[TKavatar]

I was referring more to Cullen

So he's gonna be bi in DAI?

[Phate Phoenix]

I was referring more to Cullen

 

Eeeeheheheheh! 

 

I'm going to be useless all day now.

[Allan Schumacher]

You timed it like this on purpose. Sneaky.

 

Actually I have no clue what's going on when I said that.... (I think I do now)

 

 

So he's gonna be bi in DAI?

 

I'm just saying that the reasoning that he ought to be heterosexual, based on a single interaction.  It's why I specified 5 years ago rather than 3.