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That's true, though It was very glossed over (I don't remember ever realizing she was playing as a male character, though I was very young at the time so I don't remember much about the game at all).
That game was really old though, we haven't seen any recently.
That's true.
Fun Fact though, Juhani is the first confirmed lesbian character in the entire Star Wars Universe.
Well, yeah, there's literally nothing that they can do to limit the fact that bisexual PCs will always have more options than straight or gay PCs. So I'm not really sure what the point of that was. Are you advocating for limiting options for bisexual PCs? Are you advocating adding in LIs who just won't romance bisexual PCs? Are you advocating not allowing a player to roll a bisexual PC? I'm not sure I get it.
I was just showing that 2/2/2 wasn't even like the poster I responded too claimed and that it gave the exact same number of choice than 4 bisexual/playersexual LI.
Why would BioWare add themselves works, if in the end there isn't more choices for the players?
We can change their outfits and choose their spells because of gameplay and story segregation. We can alter their outlook in life by interacting with them in game, same with deciding who lives and dies. Not so with playersexuality, because romances fall under story and companion sexuality is instantly determined by a checkbox you tick outside the game world in the CC. Players might have the power to change the fate of Thedas, but that's done through in game choices and decisions that you make.
It just seems to me that this rationale is full of excuses and mental gymnastics. You sealed Bethany's fate instantly by a checkbox tick in DA2, but people are okay with that. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand playersexuality (i.e. changing the character's sexuality because of the player's gender), but I do find it amusing that people are full of reasons why it's okay to do it because of "gameplay and story segregation", but not in other aspects that they just happen to not like.
That being said, I'm fully convinced that we've never even had playersexual LIs in a Bioware game. I can't think of a single LI ever in any Bioware game that was definitely straight in one playthrough and definitely gay in another. We've had some that share different information with different gendered PCs. We've had some whose sexualities have been nebulous or unclear. But we've never had an LI say, "I am straight" to one gender and "I am gay' to another. The only LI's in DA that are even on the table as possibly being playersexual are Fenris and Merrill and I just can't imagine why the devs would create 7 LI's over the course of two games with set sexualities and then decide in one game to throw in two "playersexual" characters. It makes more logical sense that they are bisexual, but just less clear about it. Which, in reality, should be exactly what most people want. Most people want "realistic" portrayals of sexuality and it's far more realistic to think that some people aren't going to be as explicit about their sexuality as others.
People are acting a bit like Chicken Little with playersexuality. We've never even been confronted with a clear case of it, yet people are so concerned about it that it shows in several threads daily, with insults being thrown at the writers because of it. It just seems odd to me, especially since there is no evidence that I know of that indicates that they are going to have playersexual LIs in DA: I.
I'm not a fan of playersexuality (true playersexuality, where the sexuality of the character changes depending on the gender of the PC; this is very different from all bisexual, which I approve of), however I always find it funny that people the "we shouldn't be able to change the characters" stance.
We can, literally, completely alter Alistair's and Leliana's outlooks on life by hardening them. We can change companions weapons, their outfits, their ability specs, their tactics in combat, whether they live or die, etc. There are so many places where we can alter their "preferences" and their "personalities", but the only one that ever seems to get any resistance is sexuality and it's almost always in response to making less characters open to both genders (not the way other way around).
I actually don't think that the all bi option is that controversial. I think it's only "controversial" to people who conflate "bisexual" with "playesexual" and the handful of people who bang on about "realistic statistical representation" (even though we have, literally, zero information on the sexuality statistics for Thedas). While some people might not prefer the all bisexual approach, few people have really solid arguments against it outside of personal preference.
I guess you can have an influence on your companions' opinions up to a certain point but should the sexuality be that point. Maybe not. However there could be a romance where a straight guy could realize that he actually is a gay because of the gay inquisitor (or female inquisitor). But if there would be these kinds of plots all the time then I think that the romances would become repetitive.
Do you have solid arguments for supporting bisexual approach outside your personal preference?
However there could be a romance where a straight guy could realize that he actually is a gay because of the gay inquisitor (or female inquisitor). But if there would be these kinds of plots all the time then I think that the romances would become repetitive.
Yeah, I actually wouldn't mind a "coming to terms with their sexuality" LI. I've seen other people express that they'd rather not see it because it can go really wrong really quickly, but I have faith that Bioware could do it right. Although, it's not terribly realistic to do a "straight guy realizes he's actually gay", but it could be more of a closeted guy comes to terms with his sexuality. Maybe a guy who, with the initial flirt, is like, "Uh, no. I'm not interested in guys like that....?" and then over the course of the romance he starts to question himself and the PC and reveals that he's always thought about it, blah, blah, blah. It might be interesting. The only LI that was kind of like that, in my memory, is Sky from Jade Empire. It might be interesting to revisit it with a different character.
Do you have solid arguments for supporting bisexual approach outside your personal preference?
Well, no, to be honest. I'm actually more of a 2/2/2 split guy. I don't mind having one guy who's not available to me. I have no problem with the way that ME 3 approached it with the glaring exception of the terribly unequal distribution of LI's across gender and sexuality. I don't think we'd have that problem in DA: I, though, since we are all starting from a clean slate as it's a new PC. The other concern that I have with it is that they tend to put the "main" romance as the straight one. If they could subvert that practice by making Cassandra bisexual (or even lesbian), that would be great. I know that some people are really against the idea, but it's an "agree to disagree" thing.
Regarding the "all bisexual" approach, the best argument for it is the fact that it makes the romance mechanic much easier from a gameplay standpoint. There are just four LI's and there are no flags, so everyone can access everything with just a few changes in dialogue here and there. It's not my preferred approach, but it's definitely fine and, for me, the big positive side effect is that it increases the number of bisexual individuals that we encounter, which is always a good thing.
That being said, I'm fully convinced that we've never even had playersexual LIs in a Bioware game. I can't think of a single LI ever in any Bioware game that was definitely straight in one playthrough and definitely gay in another. We've had some that share different information with different gendered PCs. We've had some whose sexualities have been nebulous or unclear. But we've never had an LI say, "I am straight" to one gender and "I am gay' to another.
This is why this whole argument seems pointless. To me, the LIs are just bisexual. Nothing wrong with that. Besides, why should the sexuality of a character even matter if you aren't going to enter a certain romance with him/her? "I'm in a nice straight romance with Cassandra. But wait, it's possible to have a gay romance with her too? Rah! That makes me incredibly mad even though I'm not going to do that!"
Are people worried that companions will just hit on you like Anders did? That's literally the only way the opposition of all-bisexual ("or playersexual") romances makes any sense, and even then it's still stupid.
This is why this whole argument seems pointless. To me, the LIs are just bisexual. Nothing wrong with that. Besides, why should the sexuality of a character even matter if you aren't going to enter a certain romance with him/her?
It's also about representation, not just about romances. Having gay or bisexual characters in movies, books and games is good because it can make people feel more comfortable about themselves, give them someone to relate to and make people with different sexualities more broadly accepted, as media has a very large impact on our culture.
I have nothing against having a lot of bisexual characters, but for me personally Dragon Age has reached a point where the proportion of homosexual characters to bisexual or straight characters is far too small. I know all of the arguments of "Sexuality statistics in Thedas are not the same as here" and so on, but I think we do need to see more gay characters, and the LI's seem like the obvious starting point to get a gay companion on the team or as a vital NPC, which is the main reason I advocate the 2/2/2 split.
I must say though, Celene apparently being gay is a really good sign, and gives me a lot of hope for more equal representation in Inquisition.
Yeah, I actually wouldn't mind a "coming to terms with their sexuality" LI.
I remember hearing some time ago that we was getting a companion like that
Though I could be wrong
I remember hearing some time ago that we was getting a companion like that
Though I could be wrong
That would be good in my opinion. I'd like to see that. I just hope it avoids the cliche "I'm gay for you nonsense". Maybe it will be Cullen wishing he had been more vocal about his secret love of a male Amell/Surana..... 
This is why this whole argument seems pointless. To me, the LIs are just bisexual. Nothing wrong with that. Besides, why should the sexuality of a character even matter if you aren't going to enter a certain romance with him/her? "I'm in a nice straight romance with Cassandra. But wait, it's possible to have a gay romance with her too? Rah! That makes me incredibly mad even though I'm not going to do that!"
Are people worried that companions will just hit on you like Anders did? That's literally the only way the opposition of all-bisexual ("or playersexual") romances makes any sense, and even then it's still stupid.
I'm not afraid that companions with the same gender would flirt with my protagonist. I'm not against bisexual romances either. I just want to see more variation. When there are different sexualities then it enables to have more different stories.
They did do a sort of "coming to terms w/ sexuality" in DAO. If you are in a romance with both Leliana and Zevran, Leliana will get jealous and say something like , "I didn't even know you liked men," and you can reply, "Neither did I, until I met him."
They did do a sort of "coming to terms w/ sexuality" in DAO. If you are in a romance with both Leliana and Zevran, Leliana will get jealous and say something like , "I didn't even know you liked men," and you can reply, "Neither did I, until I met him."
I think they mean the companions experience that, not the protagonist.
Bisexuality is a "real" sexuality that allows the same options. Playersexuality isn't the only way to make 4 available companion LIs.
Though, honestly, I'm skeptical that a lot more "depth" than just being gay or straight couldn't be added to the characters with the resources spent on another two entire LI plots.
It is real. And so is heterosexuality and homosexuality.
DA is not a sim-dating emulator, and characters are not your toys. If they prefer one gender or race over another it is their choice. And if by simply clicking a heart icon we define their entire sexuality and preferences (which are part of their personality, backstory, culture etc) then... it is simply sick
Even?
2/2/2 is 2 straight choices, 2 gay choices and 4 choices for the bisexual PC.
A straight PC will have the choice between the straight option and the bisexual one of the opposite gender.
A gay PC will have the choice between the gay option and the bisexual one of the same gender.
A bisexual PC will have the choice between one straight option, one gay option and both bisexual options.
If you ignore the bisexual options you have even less choices.
The number of choices is exactly the same with 4 bisexual/playersexual LI by the way.
A straight PC will be able to choose among the 2 LI of the opposite gender.
A gay PC will be able to choose among the 2 LI of the same gender.
The bisexual PC will be able to choose among all 4 LI.
Even less reason for pro-playersexual gamers refuse to buy a game - you'll get 4 LIs while me and a gay gamer will get two each
But you know what? I don't care. I respect characters and their preferences. If they don't like my gender, my race or my class and thus do not want to have a romance with me it is fine. Because it is their choice
"The only LI's in DA that are even on the table as possibly being playersexual are Fenris and Merrill"
Merrill says during Act 3 that she miss Qunari because they were easy on the eyes, so it kinda suggests she found them attractive, and she does it even if you romance her as female. I know it's not much, but if you play as male nothing suggests in any way that she may be attracted to women, so it looks like it's situation like in Mass Effect 2&3, where when you play as female, Shepard flirts with some male characters whenever you want it or not.
They did do a sort of "coming to terms w/ sexuality" in DAO. If you are in a romance with both Leliana and Zevran, Leliana will get jealous and say something like , "I didn't even know you liked men," and you can reply, "Neither did I, until I met him."
Yeah, the PC can always role play it that way. I was talking about a character who we don't directly create/control. It's different. It's like saying, well you can be gay so it's similar to having gay characters in the game, when it's really not.
Although, that's kind of a nice little dialogue option that they added in there.
I'm not afraid that companions with the same gender would flirt with my protagonist. I'm not against bisexual romances either. I just want to see more variation. When there are different sexualities then it enables to have more different stories.
Not "more different stories" just "different stories". It's assuming that all of the bisexual stories are the same, when they can and should be just as varied from each other as two straight stories are.
As I've said before, I support the playersexual concept simply because it is the most fair for the players.
People who want their LI of choice to be straight has them straight.
People who want their LI of choice to be gay has them gay
People who want their LI of choice to be bi has them bi.
Everyone wins.
It is real. And so is heterosexuality and homosexuality.
DA is not a sim-dating emulator, and characters are not your toys. If they prefer one gender or race over another it is their choice. And if by simply clicking a heart icon we define their entire sexuality and preferences (which are part of their personality, backstory, culture etc) then... it is simply sick
This argument is one of the weakest. First, there is not a single person here who has claimed that it is a dating sim. You can try to make it look like that's what's being asked for, but it's not and we all know it. Second, they characters are fictional. The writers decide what their "preferences" are and if the writers decide that they have no preferences regarding romance, then you should "respect" that.
As I've said before, I support the playersexual concept simply because it is the most fair for the players.
People who want their LI of choice to be straight has them straight.
People who want their LI of choice to be gay has them gay
People who want their LI of choice to be bi has them bi.
Everyone wins.
Except the characters who change such an important part of their personal life just because the player wants them to. Without quests, dialogues, character development
A player never should have so much power over any character except the PC. Playersexuality, "Gay on/off" button etc... bad ideas, just bad.. At least make it a personal romance quest or sth
I still don't understand how this is a problem? No character ever in any Bioware game has come out and said "Hay PlayerCharacter I am gay!" or "Hay PlayerCharacter I am straight!" No they interact with you tell you their background and maybe show some interest in you. In EVERY case you as the player would never know they were bisexual anyway. Since they are into YOU. Your character dose not know what happened in a playthtough were they were another sex.
The only problem is you the player and your meta gaming frustration.
"The only LI's in DA that are even on the table as possibly being playersexual are Fenris and Merrill"
Merrill says during Act 3 that she miss Qunari because they were easy on the eyes, so it kinda suggests she found them attractive, and she does it even if you romance her as female. I know it's not much, but if you play as male nothing suggests in any way that she may be attracted to women, so it looks like it's situation like in Mass Effect 2&3, where when you play as female, Shepard flirts with some male characters whenever you want it or not.
Yeah, Merrill and Fenris both have very minor things (Fenris with a possible fling with Isabela and Merrill with the "easy on the eyes" qunari thing), but it's not compelling evidence to me that this means that they are playersexual. Your mileage may vary, though.
Well,nothing is confirmed,but I think Cullen and Cassandra will be romanceable
This argument is one of the weakest. First, there is not a single person here who has claimed that it is a dating sim. You can try to make it look like that's what's being asked for, but it's not and we all know it. Second, they characters are fictional. The writers decide what their "preferences" are and if the writers decide that they have no preferences regarding romance, then you should "respect" that.
As if saying "but i wan hump that char if i cant it is so unfair!!!111" is a good argument 
Yeah, writers and not the player, meaning that it becomes canon, it becomes set. And even if depends on the player's choice it still is a part of character development rather than some shenanigan
It's also about representation, not just about romances. Having gay or bisexual characters in movies, books and games is good because it can make people feel more comfortable about themselves, give them someone to relate to and make people with different sexualities more broadly accepted, as media has a very large impact on our culture.
I have nothing against having a lot of bisexual characters, but for me personally Dragon Age has reached a point where the proportion of homosexual characters to bisexual or straight characters is far too small. I know all of the arguments of "Sexuality statistics in Thedas are not the same as here" and so on, but I think we do need to see more gay characters, and the LI's seem like the obvious starting point to get a gay companion on the team or as a vital NPC, which is the main reason I advocate the 2/2/2 split.
I must say though, Celene apparently being gay is a really good sign, and gives me a lot of hope for more equal representation in Inquisition.
See, I don't understand why the party needs to be reflective of sexual orientation demographics by statistics. I can go call up four bisexual friends and five straight friends right now and go hang out and we're not a reflection of the demographics of south texas, we're just ten random people hanging out.
Except the characters who change such an important part of their personal life just because the player wants them to. Without quests, dialogues, character development
A player never should have so much power over any character except the PC. Playersexuality, "Gay on/off" button etc... bad ideas, just bad.. At least make it a personal romance quest or sth
I've never seen sexuality as a vital part of a character's...well, character. For example, I never think of Steve Cortez as "that gay guy" but as "my shuttle pilot". Or Miranda as "that straight lady" but instead "my XO". And when has their ever been a quest involving a LIs sexual preference? As for dialogue and character development, a few simple lines make a huge difference. For example a m/f romance with Isabela has a different feel than a f/f romance with Isabela, or a m/f romance with Anders has a different feel than a m/m romance with Anders. All because of a few lines of different dialogue.
As if saying "but i wan hump that char if i cant it is so unfair!!!111" is a good argument
Quote please? Who, exactly, has made the statement that you quoted? If you can point to a single person who said the quote that you listed, then I concede. Otherwise, your statement is a rude exaggeration trying to belittle people who want equal access to romance content.
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