2090 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

I don't had an equal impact. Plus, Merrill moved into your house, which Isabela did not. The romances in DA2 were very equal in terms of content, I feel.

 

I agree that Merrill and Isabela are pretty equally important to the plot.  However, it's clear that Anders is the main male LI and romancing him has a huge impact on the decision at the end of the game.  I'm slowly working my way through my final "canon" playthrough for importing to DA: I and it's been a year or so since I've done the Anders romance line.  I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it still.  It was a great moral dilemma.

[daveliam]

I think Anders was easily more plot relevant than Fenris and he also moved into your house when I believe Fenris didn't. Even if Inquisition breaks the mold and doesn't have "main" romances, this trend has gone into both other games, so I'm skeptical if they'll always avoid it in future games. 

 

I also just can't see this as an improvement. In the 4 LI system, everyone got the choice of the "main" companion romance and the side companion romance. In this system, everyone will get an NPC romance and hope either their sexuality gets the main romance or they balance all the romances for the first time. 

 

I'll be fine with 2/2/2 if it becomes a system with 6 companions, but I'm not interested in NPC romances, so this isn't at all appealing to me.

 

To be fair, we are making a big assumption that there are going to be 6 LIs and that 2 of them are NPCs.  There are alot of other ways it could go down:

 

* 4 LI's (3 NPCs and 1 companion LI [Cass])

* 4 LI's (3 companions and 1 NPC LI [Cullen])

* 5 LI's (4 companions and 1 extra NPC romance)

* 6 LI's (5 companions and 1 NPC LI [Cullen])

etc. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I'm with you until you get to this part.  There has only been one game that had NPC romances and it was done by the ME team (not exactly the most inclusive bunch of writers).  We've yet to see what the DA team does with NPC romances.  For all we know, Cass could be a lesbian.  We just don't have enough information at this point to make this statement without using pretty substantial assumptions.  Could you be correct?  Sure.  Could you be incorrect?  Sure.  So I'd rather wait to see what they do. 

 

Odds are, Cullen is an NPC and he fits the "main romance" trope pretty well.  Let's see if they make him straight or bisexual.  If he's straight and an NPC, then that means that we'll probably have our first gay male companion.  If he's bisexual, then that means that the "main" guy might not be straight (provided he is the "main guy").  There's alot of room for this too go well for us, still. 

Assuming they're going to make their "main" romance homosexual seems like a big stretch, to me. Anything is possible, but I don't think they're going to cut the vast majority of their audience out of the main romances.

 

I also don't think Cullen makes much sense as a "main" romance as an NPC. The "main" romance will most likely be a companion, I would think. Cassandra might be the "main" female romance, but I wouldn't place any bets on Cullen for males. 

[Ianamus]

I think Anders was easily more plot relevant than Fenris and he also moved into your house when I believe Fenris didn't. Even if Inquisition breaks the mold and doesn't have "main" romances, this trend has gone into both other games, so I'm skeptical if they'll always avoid it in future games. 

 

I also just can't see this as an improvement. In the 4 LI system, everyone got the choice of the "main" companion romance and the side companion romance. In this system, everyone will get an NPC romance and hope either their sexuality gets the main romance or they balance all the romances for the first time. 

 

I'll be fine with 2/2/2 if it becomes a system with 6 companions, but I'm not interested in NPC romances, so this isn't at all appealing to me.

 

I would hardly call being given Anders romance a "positive". Perosnally I strongly dislike Anders romance and think that Fenris's is vastly superior. I mean how many people want a romance where your partner becomes a terrorist? What kind of privilege is that? And while his character is more plot relevant the romance itself is not really relevant to the plot. 

 

I could see the argument involving "main" romances with respect to Origins, but not with Dragon Age 2. Anders as a companion was more plot relevant, but the actual events do not differ at all depending on romance, and being maximum friendship or rivalry is practically the same. It's not like the Warden getting Morrigan pregnant or having Alistair dump you to become king/ becoming Queen of Ferelden. Anders blows up the Chantry and you get upset, and either kill him or let him live. Just like if you did not romance him. Sure the emotional stakes are higher, but you don't actually get any new choices, other than to run away with him. 

[Azure]

At this point I'm almost hoping for 2/2/2 just to give things some variety. I'd probably never experience the heterosexual female or the gay guy because I never play male characters but that's just me.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

To be fair, we are making a big assumption that there are going to be 6 LIs and that 2 of them are NPCs.  There are alot of other ways it could go down:

 

* 4 LI's (3 NPCs and 1 companion LI [Cass])

* 4 LI's (3 companions and 1 NPC LI [Cullen])

* 5 LI's (4 companions and 1 extra NPC romance)

* 6 LI's (5 companions and 1 NPC LI [Cullen])

etc. 

But the end result is that it's unequal. For males especially, the difference doesn't much matter.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I would hardly call being given Anders romance a "positive". Perosnally I strongly dislike Anders romance and think that Fenris's is vastly superior. I mean how many people want a romance where your partner becomes a terrorist? What kind of privilege is that? And while his character is more plot relevant the romance itself is not really relevant to the plot. 

 

I could see the argument involving "main" romances with respect to Origins, but not with Dragon Age 2. Anders as a companion was a bit more plot relevant, but the actual events do not differ at all depending on romance, and being maximum friendship or rivalry is practically the same. It's not like the Warden getting Morrigan pregnant or having Alistair dump you to become king/ becoming Queen of Ferelden. Anders blows up the CHantry and you get upset, and either kill him or let him live. Sure the emotional stakes are higher, but you don't actually get any new choices, other than to run away with him. 

But it changes the whole tone of the game. "The emotional stakes are higher", is a pretty big deal, at least for me. Personal opinions on Anders aren't the point. The point is that the character is much more ingrained in the plot than the other romance option. Fenris isn't particularly vital to the plot at all. DA2 would be a completely different game without Anders. You wouldn't have found the red lyrium and the Chantry wouldn't have blown up, causing a chain reaction of revolt in circles internationally. That's basically the whole world progression for DA2 down the pipes. What changes if you take Fenris out? Basically nothing.

[Former_Fiend]

Sorry, you're right, that could have been clearer.  Not social class because we don't get to pick that, I'm gathering based on the fact that the Inquisitor's backstory is going to be set. 

 

i was referring to player class, like a mage wouldn't romance a templar spec'd warrior.  Or a templar who wouldn't romance a mage.  Something like this.  Like if Fenris would have been restricted to a mage, that would make sense to me and their could have been some dialogue around that as a mage hawke explored that in their conversations.

 

You should tell Wynne about that bolded part, she's got a thirty some-odd year old son that disagrees with it.

 

Honestly I'm not a fan of this concept. The only aspect of it I've seen that makes sense is limiting the romances blood mages get into, because I agree, it didn't make any sense for Alistair, Leliana, Anders, or Fenris to romance a blood mage pc.

 

Aside from that, I don't buy it. I could see mage companions not being interested in characters who support templar extremism, but I think having them refuse to be with someone because they happen to have (a very practical) skill set is taking it a little far.

[Ianamus]

But it changes the whole tone of the game. "The emotional stakes are higher", is a pretty big deal, at least for me. Personal opinions on Anders aren't the point. The point is that the character is much more ingrained in the plot than the other romance option. Fenris isn't particularly vital to the plot at all. DA2 would be a completely different game without Anders. You wouldn't have found the red lyrium and the Chantry wouldn't have blown up, causing a chain reaction of revolt in circles internationally. That's basically the whole world progression for DA2 down the pipes. What changes if you take Fenris out? Basically nothing.

 

That's true and as I said, Anders is a more plot relevant companion, but the romance itself is not plot relevant. If you really, really like Anders and consider him an incredibly close friend then end result of the plot is practically the same as if you romanced him.

 

There is a difference between romancing a plot relevant character and actually having a plot relevant romance. In my opinion Alistair and Morrigan are the latter, while Anders is the former, and I would only count the latter as a "main" romance.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

That's true and as I said, Anders is a more plot relevant companion, but the romance itself is not plot relevant. If you really, really like Anders and consider him an incredibly close friend then end result of the plot is practically the same as if you romanced him.

That's subjective. I never expect friends to be as open with me as someone I've been in a relationship with and living with for years. It wouldn't have the same impact, for me. 

[daveliam]

You should tell Wynne about that bolded part, she's got a thirty some-odd year old son that disagrees with it.

 

Honestly I'm not a fan of this concept. The only aspect of it I've seen that makes sense is limiting the romances blood mages get into, because I agree, it didn't make any sense for Alistair, Leliana, Anders, or Fenris to romance a blood mage pc.

 

Aside from that, I don't buy it. I could see mage companions not being interested in characters who support templar extremism, but I think having them refuse to be with someone because they happen to have (a very practical) skill set is taking it a little far.

 

Yeah, I'm not saying that it should be done.  I'm just saying that it could make sense from a story perspective if that was the case.  I'm not a huge fan of the idea, but at least it makes more sense than, "We've decided that this character is straight just 'cause."

 

Assuming they're going to make their "main" romance homosexual seems like a big stretch, to me. Anything is possible, but I don't think they're going to cut the vast majority of their audience out of the main romances.

 

I also don't think Cullen makes much sense as a "main" romance as an NPC. The "main" romance will most likely be a companion, I would think. Cassandra might be the "main" female romance, but I wouldn't place any bets on Cullen for males. 

 

To be fair, we don't know enough to really make any bets on anything at this time.

 

If Cullen isn't the main romance, then we could have a straight NPC and then the "main" romance would have to be bisexual or gay based on what your criteria, right?  I'm just saying to keep open to some positive possibilities for us too.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

To be fair, we don't know enough to really make any bets on anything at this time.

 

If Cullen isn't the main romance, then we could have a straight NPC and then the "main" romance would have to be bisexual or gay based on what your criteria, right?  I'm just saying to keep open to some positive possibilities for us too.

Well, if we knew, it wouldn't be much of a "bet". You always know enough to bet. lol

 

This is just what I think is most likely to happen. I'm not claiming my opinion is fact. I just think the "bright side" is less likely and, honestly, not even much of an argument for the system when you realize what you're actually saying amounts to, "there's still a chance the other guy could get a worse deal instead of us". 

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah, I'm not saying that it should be done.  I'm just saying that it could make sense from a story perspective if that was the case.  I'm not a huge fan of the idea, but at least it makes more sense than, "We've decided that this character is straight just 'cause."

 

 

 

To an extent I can agree with that, and the particular example you mentioned, mages & templars, would probably work better in DAI than in the previous games where the PC's spec had no story significance at all.

 

But in the case of classes & specs influencing it, the only one I support having limitations would be blood mage, because if either Cassandra or Cullen can be romanced by a blood mage, well...

 

I do feel that any and all restrictions on romance should be a result of our characters actions and choices, rather than gender. I think that goes much further towards defining the companions characters than having them say "nope" when presented with the wrong set of genitals.

[Allan Schumacher]

It's also about representation, not just about romances. Having gay or bisexual characters in movies, books and games is good because it can make people feel more comfortable about themselves, give them someone to relate to and make people with different sexualities more broadly accepted, as media has a very large impact on our culture.

 

To be fair, we don't need romance content to reflect this.

 

 

Why would BioWare add themselves works, if in the end there isn't more choices for the players?

 

It would depend on how you refer to "choice."  Exclusive choice is very appealing to some people, and can enhance replay value a lot.

[smoke and mirrors]

come on Allen tell us what the LI are going to be ...... please we wont tell anyone

[jellobell]

I wouldn't be surprised if Cullen is the only npc romance with them still doing the 6 bisexual options.

 

Reason I say this is if you look at the female companions, they all make viable romance options. For a long time a large part of the reason people were guessing at Cullen being a PC was because few of the male companions looked to be what they considered suitable for a LI; Iron Bull was too big and burly, Beard Warden was too old, Solas also looked too old in the concept art. The only one that sort of fit what people had as their preconception of what a male dragon age LI should be is DHMG.

 

So I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Cassandra, Sera, and Vivienne were all LI's and Solas and DHMG were the only male companions to be LI's while Cullen was an npc.

 

Just gonna say that this would be horribly unfair for people interested in romancing guys, having one of the LI slots used for an NPC while there are three female companions that are romanceable.

 

Also, I find it odd that youth and conventional attractiveness is the only thing that makes a character "suitable" to being an LI. The idea that you can't have a beautiful female NPC and not have her as a romance option makes me more than a little uncomfortable.

[Blackrising]

Well ,if you so want to know then sure, here it is

But don't call me a snitch after that - you asked, I answered

Oh, and Tumblr, if Cassandra will turn out to be purely straight, dat place will blow up like no Anders' bomb could ever blow up

 

It is wonderful to know that you refuse to properly read my or Mort de Minuit's posts and simply exaggerate everything we say in order to support your own arguments.

Mort de Minuit never said that he would not buy the game if he couldn't romance that particular character he liked. He said that he wouldn't buy the game if there were no equal options or no m/m romances at all.

I also never said that I would refuse to buy the game due to not getting to romance the character I wanted. If you had read all my posts, you would have realized that I said I wouldn't have to pre-order the game, since I don't want to go in blind and prefer to know who I will be able to romance before getting my hopes up and then getting disappointed halfway through the game. The posts you quoted? I was making those arguments because I believe it is everyone's right to not buy the game for whatever reason they chose. I wasn't saying that I felt that way, but that it is nobody's business what a customer derives enjoyment from and what not.

 

And instead of thinking about what we said, you prefer to use our posts out of context in order to make us appear silly. Bravo. I am truly impressed. *slow clap*

 

(And if I appear passive-aggressive to you, then you're probably right about that. I hate having words and meanings put into my mouth in order to invalidate my opinion.)

[DooomCookie]

Why has everyone started assuming 2/2/2?  Bioware's always done 4 romances before and 6 is starting to get a bit excessive.  Also, playersexual worked well last game, so there's no reason they'll restrict content to sexualities this time round.

 

Alternative model: 4 romances, all bi.  Two male and two female.  Of each gender, one is an npc and one is a companion.

[Blackrising]

Why has everyone started assuming 2/2/2?  Bioware's always done 4 romances before and 6 is starting to get a bit excessive.  Also, playersexual worked well last game, so there's no reason they'll restrict content to sexualities this time round.

 

Alternative model: 4 romances, all bi.  Two male and two female.  Of each gender, one is an npc and one is a companion.

 

They might have gotten more resources for romances this time around and Gaider has stated that he would prefer the 2/2/2 split if resources allowed it. I think that bisexuality has worked well in DA2, but apparently some people are strongly opposed to it. On this forum, anyway. My friends and family were all of the opinion that bisexual LIs are the way to go. *shrug*

 

I'd be okay with having 2 companion romances and 2 NPC romances, all bi. But only if NPC romances got just as much content as the companion romances, obviously.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

They might have gotten more resources for romances this time around and Gaider has stated that he would prefer the 2/2/2 split if resources allowed it. I think that bisexuality has worked well in DA2, but apparently some people are strongly opposed to it. On this forum, anyway. My friends and family were all of the opinion that bisexual LIs are the way to go. *shrug*

 

I'd be okay with having 2 companion romances and 2 NPC romances, all bi. But only if NPC romances got just as much content as the companion romances, obviously.

It's the BSN. Some people are ALWAYS opposed to romance stuff.

[Blackrising]

It's the BSN. Some people are ALWAYS opposed to romance stuff.

 

Or any other kind of content.

[daveliam]

Why has everyone started assuming 2/2/2?  Bioware's always done 4 romances before and 6 is starting to get a bit excessive.  Also, playersexual worked well last game, so there's no reason they'll restrict content to sexualities this time round.

 

Alternative model: 4 romances, all bi.  Two male and two female.  Of each gender, one is an npc and one is a companion.

 

They might have gotten more resources for romances this time around and Gaider has stated that he would prefer the 2/2/2 split if resources allowed it.

 

Agreed, and I'd add that the fervor of the 2/2/2 speculation has increased after Cullen got announced as an LI, especially given that he's likely an NPC.  When people started speculating that he was an NPC, 2/2/2 became popular with the assumption that, if there were only 4 LI's, one wouldn't be an NPC. 

It's all spec though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Or any other kind of content.

Pretty much.

[Blackrising]

Agreed, and I'd add that the fervor of the 2/2/2 speculation has increased after Cullen got announced as an LI, especially given that he's likely an NPC.  When people started speculating that he was an NPC, 2/2/2 became popular with the assumption that, if there were only 4 LI's, one wouldn't be an NPC. 

It's all spec though.

 

Speculation fueled by Bioware's unwillingness to talk about it yet. I swear, by the time they announce anything, the BSN will be a barren wasteland and the only people left will be the survivors of the LI apocalypse 2014. Grizzled veterans with the verbal scars to prove it.

...we should get badges made.