373 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Raijin]

*sigh* now that is obnoxious. 

 

Not sure if you're speaking directly at me but if you are how is it obnoxious to ask for more freedom in a game that you rightfully paid for with your hard earned money?

[Sylvius the Mad]

The point for Sony and Microsoft is that if the mods come through their online facilities they become responsible for them. Microsoft and Sony could just say use at your own risk, but that would not go over well. It is like buying an app from the Apple store and it bricks your IPhone. Apple cannot say you used it at your own risk. (I know it an extreme example.).

But that's only because they force all of the content to come through their facilities.  Imagine if they didn't.

 

Compare an iPhone to an Android phone.  The Google vets all the stuff you can get from their store, but you can also install apps from other places.  Those may well kill your phone, and it won't be Google's fault when it happens.  MS and Sony could get around this problem simply by alowing users to use mods that came from other sources.

 

The closed model doesn't work for consumers.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not sure if you're speaking directly at me but if you are how is it obnoxious to ask for more freedom in a game that you rightfully paid for with your hard earned money?

It is obnoxious to say that you are Bioware's boss.

[TurretSyndrome]

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or a serious post Raijin. Regardless, I don't think we are in a position to demand mod support, only request it. The only thing you can expect from Bioware would be a properly functioning game on the platform you buy it on. 

[Lord Raijin]

It is obnoxious to say that you are Bioware's boss.

 

LOL because we (not just I) are. We pay them $$$$ to produce the products that we want to purchase. Without our money Bioware will go into bankruptcy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

LOL because we (not just I) are. We pay them $$$$ to produce the products that we want to purchase. Without our money Bioware will go into bankruptcy.

We are the customer, not the boss. We can't tell them what to put in the game or how the stories should go. 

[Lord Raijin]

I can't tell if that's sarcasm or a serious post Raijin. Regardless, I don't think we are in a position to demand mod support, only request it. The only thing you can expect from Bioware would be a properly functioning game on the platform you buy it on. 

 

Not sarcasm. Dragon Age 2 is proof that Dragon age needs mod support. Had their been mod support the game would be so much better and more fun than it is now. The fact that the textures of the game, especially the NPCs are so awful that you can't help but to laugh at the game.

 

If I'm going to pay the 60 dollars for a game I better get mod support otherwise I will have to just wait until the price starts going down. perhaps when the game reaches to 30 dollars.

[Allan Schumacher]

I assume that Dragon Age Inquisition is going to be priced at around 50 to 60 dollars, right? This means that we are entitled to have the maximum performance that's out there, and that means to also gain access to mods for us PC users. Once we paid our money into the game we should be allowed to do anything we want with it, since we own DA: I, and not just Bioware.

I doubt we technically do anything to prevent you from modding it. So feel free to start digging through the data files, if you like. If you think that it requires us to make a fully functional toolset for the game, it's trivial to point out that this is not reality in the gaming world (and to be clear, I disagree with the assessment too). Precedent is not on your side.
 

Using legal issues as a shield is lame. Bethesda allowed us Skyrim players to mod the game, and guess what? To this very same day people still play Skyrim (Because of the mods) despite of it's lack of story, and to my knowledge Bethesda hasn't got into any legal problems because of their decisions to allow people to mod their games. How many people today are still playing Dragon Age 2 with so very few mods available to them?

 
The legal issues has nothing to do with the content that is created, and everything to do with the tools used to create the game. We use middleware to expedite parts of game development that comes with licenses that cost thousands of dollars. In some cases, there's a lot of potential legal issues that present problems because it's not within our right to redistribute that software without permission. Permission can be expensive. The other option is that we spend time (a non-trivial amount) removing said features from our end user toolset, which can compromise what the tool can do (who needs lighting though?) or even make the toolset non-functional.

 

The bottom line is that we are your boss, Bioware. We want access to mods to the products that you guys sell to us. It is for your best interests to work hard to please us, since we finance your company through purchasing of your games.

 
You are not our boss.  You are our customer.  The relationship between a business and a customer is that the business creates a good or service in the hopes that a customer will pay for the good or service. You are well within your right to skip on Dragon Age: Inquisition if you feel the product does not satisfactorily meet your needs as a gamer. I actively encourage all gamers to do such a thing (and have for some time). Not all gamers may agree with you, however, and some customers may be satisfied with what they receive with Dragon Age: Inquisition.

In this sense, it doesn't seem like Dragon Age: Inquisition will be a satisfactory purchase for you as it won't meet your criteria for what a $50-$60 game should deliver. At least you can make an informed decision and save yourself the money, if need be. Which is a good thing for you.

[slimgrin]

LOL because we (not just I) are. We pay them $$$$ to produce the products that we want to purchase. Without our money Bioware will go into bankruptcy.

Customers are the lifeblood of a company, not the boss. Getting mod tools is a privilege, not required. It's a shame more companies don't do it, but one practical reason is that games are a hell of a lot more complicated now. Building a good tool kit takes significant time and resources. There are other crappy reasons of course, like the rise of DLC and publishers/developers not liking the notion of free content generating from their product. 

[Lord Raijin]

We are the customer, not the boss. We can't tell them what to put in the game or how the stories should go. 

 

Business practice 101    The consumers are always right so essentially we do have the right to tell them what to put in the game, especially asking for mod support.

[Allan Schumacher]

Customers often have competing interests.

[Sylvius the Mad]

LOL because we (not just I) are. We pay them $$$$ to produce the products that we want to purchase. Without our money Bioware will go into bankruptcy.

No, that's the shareholders.  You have the business relationship backward.

[Realmzmaster]

Business practice 101    The consumers are always right so essentially we do have the right to tell them what to put in the game, especially asking for mod support.

 

You really need to go back and take a refresher course! You do not have the right to tell them anything. The only ones who have that right are the stockholders who have invested in the company. You are the customer who is free to buy or not buy the product. You do not get the right to complain about a product you have not even purchased.

[Realmzmaster]

But that's only because they force all of the content to come through their facilities.  Imagine if they didn't.

 

Compare an iPhone to an Android phone.  The Google vets all the stuff you can get from their store, but you can also install apps from other places.  Those may well kill your phone, and it won't be Google's fault when it happens.  MS and Sony could get around this problem simply by alowing users to use mods that came from other sources.

 

The closed model doesn't work for consumers.

 

I agree with you. Therefore Sony and Microsoft should state upfront that any mods not delivered by their services is at the risk of the consumer. So if the consumer turns her/his console into a doorstop due to mods the warranty is void.

[CybAnt1]

Sorry, LR, you do have the wrong attitude. And I say that as an obvious fan of modding. 

 

The only games where a toolkit is "owed" to players are ones built around the concept of the players making the content ... like NWN1, where fan/player-made content was the point and everybody got a Toolset. 

 

In other games, if developers provide a mod toolkit - it's nice gravy to offer, as would be a lower level of "unofficial" mod support (which is what I've described elsewhere) - but no, sorry, they do not "owe" it to players.

 

We can ask nicely, and I think many of us have been. But taking your attitude doesn't help - frankly. 

[Lord Raijin]

Allen, You must understand that I'm not just financially hooked on Dragon Age, but also emotionally attached. Of course I will buy the incoming game because I'm actually looking forward to it.

 

You've got to spend money to make money. Bethesda had no issues whatsoever about getting the special permissions to create and develop the Skyrim Creation Kit and neither should Bioware, unless if the company is near bankruptcy, and that I find hard to believe.

 

Another way to raise that thousands of dollars for getting a license is to add quality items in the store. I'm not trying to be mean but theirs not one thing that I want to buy from http://www.biowarestore.com/ especially in the T shirt department, which I'm currently am shopping for new T shirts as of now.

 

I don't want to pay 20 dollars for something like this:

 

but rather spend it on quality T shirt such as this

I've been searching for a legit source to buy a quality Anders or a Pro Mage T shirt for a while, and can't seem to find one. I'm actually willing to buy a Templar T shirt with Knight Commander Meredith/Greagoir and Cullen. Either have the Bioware artist draw up some up or hire an artist from deviantART that can do the job.

 

I can see myself wearing something like this as a Dragon Age fan

[Andraste_Reborn]

You've got to spend money to make money. Bethesda had no issues whatsoever about getting the special permissions to create and develop the Skyrim Creation Kit and neither should Bioware, unless if the company is near bankruptcy, and that I find hard to believe.

 

While we don't know all the financial details (and BioWare is under no obligation to tells us those!) we do know that Inquisition is being built with an engine that BioWare do not own, with a bunch of tools they also don't own. Getting permission to release a modder toolset to the public could be a whole lot more complicated than you seem to think. Remember how much trouble modders had with the DAO toolset lightmapper? And that was only one part of the application.

[Allan Schumacher]

Bethesda had no issues whatsoever about getting the special permissions to create and develop the Skyrim Creation Kit and neither should Bioware, unless if the company is near bankruptcy, and that I find hard to believe.

 

If Bethesda's toolset has no middleware, they don't have to get any permission to release the Skyrim Creation Kit.  They can do whatever they want with it.

[Realmzmaster]

Allen, You must understand that I'm not just financially hooked on Dragon Age, but also emotionally attached. Of course I will buy the incoming game because I'm actually looking forward to it.

 

You've got to spend money to make money. Bethesda had no issues whatsoever about getting the special permissions to create and develop the Skyrim Creation Kit and neither should Bioware, unless if the company is near bankruptcy, and that I find hard to believe.

 

 

 

 

Bethesda's toolkit is a re-write of the one they have been using since Morrowind. The engine they used in Skyrim is an update of the  Gamebryo engine they have been using since Morrowind. The new Creation engine is based on Gamebryo. Bethesda owns the tools for the engine. I can surmise that very little middleware was used. Therefore no licensing problems. 

Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas are also based on Gamebryo, The G.E.C.K Creation Kit is based on the toolkit written for Oblivion. Skyrim has the Creation engine which is based on Gamebryo. As I said the toolkit is a rewrite.

[Allan Schumacher]

But it if it is using the similar type of model with XML then I doubt they would change the principles which XML upholds. The XML structure is beneficial for organizing semi structured data.

 

I would personally prefer JSON as it could be easily mapped to objects but I guess that is how they want to do it.

 

Edit: Not Json. For a save data scheme like this, a variation of XML would be sufficient.

 

It's super late and I'm tired, but there might be benefits beyond structuring the data compared to JSON (which I am not familiar with at all) that what we're using provides.  (I'm actually thinking it might be xaml.... though ugh it's late lol)

[Allan Schumacher]

I made an edit as my post wasn't clear XD.