9318 réponses à ce sujet

[s-jay2676]

What I don't understand is why people are against more diverse marketing. It's supposed to be a good thing, right? Yet every few pages on this thread there is someone arguing against it. I think we should give the developers more reasons to reconsider their stance on this and not looking for reasons, why it shouldn't be done. So, here is mine.

 

I am male, 38 years old and I always play as a female character in RPGs. Why? Well, I could tell you that I think it's more interesting to play as a character of a different gender than mine. I could tell you that while playing a male character my moral views tend to shape the character, which I don't like. Or I could tell you that I am sick and tired of almost the same male characters that are used in media over and over. But I wanna put it simple and tell you that I play female characters because I can. Because Bioware lets me do it and this makes their games more fun to play. So Bioware, please keep creating this great games, but at the same time don't forget the players who like to play as a female character.

 

Btw, I just watched the E3 female qunari demo and I think was amazing. I am now officially excited for this game. It would be great if I could just get more excited about the companions, but I guess it will happen sooner or later.

[Pasquale1234]

How did you find that out, anyway?

The DA forums. A lot of threads here have many pages of ME discussion.

[Allan Schumacher]

Well it's all theoretical since you need more data, like ME3's advertising budget vs other games etc. My belief if you advertise a strong concept and people flock around it. Now it might be true that the concept does not matter. But on the other hand, games that do well have a fairly standard message. Anything else I see as a risk, that's upto the individual publisher to take or not. 

 

Until someone tries it , we just won't know. But I found the fact that ME3 had less people playing FShep, despite her being an advertised option vs not being an advertised option interesting.

 

That to me would suggest that your female targeted advertising either failed, or attracted people who would rather play MShep. If the goal was to increase the % of female gamers to ME3. That did not happen.

 

Exactly.

 

Ben Kuchera did a breakdown to show that games that feature female protagonists tend to not get as much advertising money as others.

 

You're now using the same arguments he made to show that female protagonists are unfairly chastized by the industry, except now to validate that we shouldn't read too much into the data because they don't support your world view.

 

 

My point: there's a lot of confounding variables.  It's nice to see you recognize them, even if I disagree with the direction you are taking it in.

 

 

But until that actually translates into spending, then I see no reason to change position.

 

And this is an example of both privilege and institutionalized discrimination.  You're saying that there's no reason to change direction unless women show that they're willing to go and play things with other characters that don't interest them first.  It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (and has already come up several times in this thread before you decided to restate it).

 

 

Gaming used to be a family thing, then there was an epic video game crash.  Nintendo (in particular) did an excellent job of marketing "toys for boys" with their NES, and focused it as being a young male activity.  There's a host of other problematic, systemic issues.

 

But you're at the point of now saying "I'd rather they continue catering to me unless a lot of women decide to show that it's a good idea to do otherwise."  Because it comes at zero cost to you, and all the cost on the disenfranchised group.

 

 

It should be safe to conclude even though the sales went up the target advertising failed.

 

The game had a FemShep trailer and, by your own words, sales were unaffacted (in fact they went up).  It should be safe to conclude that the target advertising didn't have an impact.

 

Even IF it was "male fantasy," the fact remains, the sales still went up.

 

 

(on a final note, when you say ME3 is the best seller, what are you comparing against?)

[Darth Krytie]

But they did just that with ME3 and while the overall audience increased, the % of people playing Femshep decreased. 

 

What's your opinion on ME3's advertising of Femshep? Did it work for you or not?

 

Got nothing more to add really, but I'd be interested in opinions on the FemShep advertising campaign. 

 

You do realise that while the percentage of people playing FemShep decreased, the actual number of people playing FemShep could increase?

 

Also, it wasn't as if they presented the FemShep marketing on its own. It was also coupled with that god awful beauty contest crap. You really can't just look at that one fact in a vacuum and come to conclusions based on it to be used broadly for all time.

[syllogi]

Gaming might've been a family thing (and I was around during those days), but I don't think cRPGs ever were. It's all about loners like myself getting immersed in fantasy worlds. I don't want to socialize.

 

And on that note, I have no idea if there are more male loners than female. Probably so, but I'm not going to bother debating it.

 

Believe me, I was a fantasy fic and pen & paper RPG nerd from the time I was a kid, as well as a girl, and it was very lonely, and I even tried to meet new people by going on early AOL message boards for authors like Mercedes Lackey and Anne McCaffrey.  While I got to know some other women like me, we were spread out all over the world (much like the internet today).  By the time I started playing CRPGs on PC, I was pretty convinced that the only people I was going to meet with similar hobbies were at least hundreds of miles away, at all times.

 

Much like you said earlier, I always had the impression that fantasy was a girl friendly thing, but as time went by, I was told again and again that girls don't like fantasy, or don't play RPGs.

 

Considering how many women I've met online who were in fandoms like LOTR, ASoIaF (waaaaay before HBO), and even Harry Potter, and that most of the friends I've met in real life who were RPG fans I knew from the internet were female, I'm just ignoring that kind of supposition now.

 

And honestly, women LOVE dragons.  It's a fact.

[GameBoyish]

Exactly what the title says.

 

I know that marketing's going to hound the developers to not show the women, because they assume males are their primary market.  But these forums alone contain oodles of women, and since forum posters are a minority I'd expect there are a whole lot more out there who don't post--and a few who are on the forums but don't admit to being female.  Not to mention I'm sure there are guys who'd prefer to play the female Inquisitor.  I don't think using her in marketing is going to hurt your sales.

 

I can't speak for the rest of us women, but I'd like to see a few renders of female inquisitors.  So far I've only seen some concept art, which is great and better than it was with Mass Effect where we got nothing until ME3, but we've heard the male inquisitor voice, we've seen renders of male inquisitors...

 

I'm starting to feel like my Inquisitor is invisible as anything more than concept art--because even though I play males every now and then, my character will be a woman at least nine times out of ten.

 

So how about it, Bioware?  Could we have a screenshot of the female Inquisitor in action?  Could the next trailer show a lady Inquisitor?  Pretty please?

THANK GOD FOR THE FEM!QUN DEMO!
 

 

Exactly.

 

Ben Kuchera did a breakdown to show that games that feature female protagonists tend to not get as much advertising money as others.

 

You're now using the same arguments he made to show that female protagonists are unfairly chastized by the industry, except now to validate that we shouldn't read too much into the data because they don't support your world view.

 

 

My point: there's a lot of confounding variables.  It's nice to see you recognize them, even if I disagree with the direction you are taking it in.

 

 

 

 

 

And this is an example of both privilege and institutionalized discrimination.  You're saying that there's no reason to change direction unless women show that they're willing to go and play things with other characters that don't interest them first.  It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (and has already come up several times in this thread before you decided to restate it).

 

 

Gaming used to be a family thing, then there was an epic video game crash.  Nintendo (in particular) did an excellent job of marketing "toys for boys" with their NES, and focused it as being a young male activity.  There's a host of other problematic, systemic issues.

 

But you're at the point of now saying "I'd rather they continue catering to me unless a lot of women decide to show that it's a good idea to do otherwise."  Because it comes at zero cost to you, and all the cost on the disenfranchised group.

 

 

 

 

 

The game had a FemShep trailer and, by your own words, sales were unaffacted (in fact they went up).  It should be safe to conclude that the target advertising didn't have an impact.

 

Even IF it was "male fantasy," the fact remains, the sales still went up.

 

 

(on a final note, when you say ME3 is the best seller, what are you comparing against?)

 

 

[Lady Nuggins]

Marketing is only a problem if it does not work. Whether or not you agree with their marketing strategy is an entirely different matter.

 

In my opinion while showing lots of stuff at E3 is a good thing, they are missing an Iconic character like Shepard to entice the wider audience. 

 

So you believe that the best way to make DAI stand out is to use the exact same tactic as every other game at E3, and join the ranks of the stubbled white 30-something dudebros?  So far, I have seen absolutely no indication that DAI has suffered from lack of press by having a different tactic.  If anything, they are avoiding the backlash that many other games are experiencing right now for doing just that.  All the articles I can find about DAI are positive.  I see journalists already saying that it's looking to be game of the year.  DAI is really not suffering at E3.

 

It's a little false to make it sound like ME had equal representation for Femshep.  One trailer that was online only, appearing mere weeks before the release of the third game of a trilogy, really is not solid enough representation to tell us anything.  Do you think much of the wider audience ever even saw that trailer?

[Darth Krytie]

Believe me, I was a fantasy fic and pen & paper RPG nerd from the time I was a kid, as well as a girl, and it was very lonely, and I even tried to meet new people by going on early AOL message boards for authors like Mercedes Lackey and Anne McCaffrey.  While I got to know some other women like me, we were spread out all over the world (much like the internet today).  By the time I started playing CRPGs on PC, I was pretty convinced that the only people I was going to meet with similar hobbies were at least hundreds of miles away, at all times.

 

Much like you said earlier, I always had the impression that fantasy was a girl friendly thing, but as time went by, I was told again and again that girls don't like fantasy, or don't play RPGs.

 

Considering how many women I've met online who were in fandoms like LOTR, ASoIaF (waaaaay before HBO), and even Harry Potter, and that most of the friends I've met in real life who were RPG fans I knew from the internet were female, I'm just ignoring that kind of supposition now.

 

And honestly, women LOVE dragons.  It's a fact.

 

I wish I could like this twice. I met a lot of great women in various fandoms from Harry Potter to Dragon Age to Mass Effect to various tv shows.

 

And it might have taken carving out a spot with like-minded people, but I'm happy to be here and am not going anywhere. Even if it means a great deal of my friends are spread out, they're still awesome.

 

Women do love dragons! I've seen a few posts around with women wanting to claim dragons as a symbol of feminism. Which tickles me left right and center.

 

And I think today really does prove that at least BioWare cares about its gamers who happen to be women because they're getting better each game with giving us a share of the focus.

[oceanicsurvivor]

So you believe that the best way to make DAI stand out is to use the exact same tactic as every other game at E3, and join the ranks of the stubbled white 30-something dudebros?  So far, I have seen absolutely no indication that DAI has suffered from lack of press by having a different tactic.  If anything, they are avoiding the backlash that many other games are experiencing right now for doing just that.  All the articles I can find about DAI are positive.  I see journalists already saying that it's looking to be game of the year.  DAI is really not suffering at E3.

 

It's a little false to make it sound like ME had equal representation for Femshep.  One trailer that was online only, appearing mere weeks before the release of the third game of a trilogy, really is not solid enough representation to tell us anything.  Do you think much of the wider audience ever even saw that trailer?

 

Ugh, I'm following stuff on IGN and their coverage has been horrible. Where are these journalist, may I ask, because clearly I need to give them my business instead

 

And yeah, maybe its because of how much time I've spent on this forum in the past few months, but E3 has been glaringly lacking in diversity this year. Assassin's Creed Unity is the game that is truly upsetting imo. 4 main protags in a super established franchise and not a one could be a woman? Really

[WildOrchid]

And honestly, women LOVE dragons.  It's a fact.

 

 

Hell yes!

[GameBoyish]

I wish I could like this twice. I met a lot of great women in various fandoms from Harry Potter to Dragon Age to Mass Effect to various tv shows.

 

And it might have taken carving out a spot with like-minded people, but I'm happy to be here and am not going anywhere. Even if it means a great deal of my friends are spread out, they're still awesome.

 

Women do love dragons! I've seen a few posts around with women wanting to claim dragons as a symbol of feminism. Which tickles me left right and center.

 

And I think today really does prove that at least BioWare cares about its gamers who happen to be women because they're getting better each game with giving us a share of the focus.

YUP!

 

My elder sister is obsessed with dragons. And naked men, but that's a whole other story.

 

I really appreciate that BioWare truly makes an effort to care for their female fanbase!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

My elder sister is obsessed with dragons. And naked men, but that's a whole other story.

But is she obsessed with naked dragon men? 

[WildOrchid]

 Assassin's Creed Unity is the game that is truly upsetting imo. 4 main protags in a super established franchise and not a one could be a woman? Really

 

 

Oh god, the ACU shitfest. Not one but 4 white, angry dudebros WITH stubble. Such diversity! Wow. I couldn't believe it when i saw the pic and then i laughed so hard. It was hysterical, let me tell u.

 

It still baffles me why they couldn't use 2 women in the party or hell, even one damn woman considering how many great assassin women are playable in their multiplayer.

 

I don't get Ubisoft. I really don't.

[oceanicsurvivor]

That is pretty appalling actually. It's hightime for one. I could totally see a woman wearing those shoes (or robe, if you will).

 

Strange too that the franchise was partly created by a woman as well.

Spoiler

 

Yes, from left to right we have: stubbly man with round face, stubbly smirking man, stubbly McPointy chin, and on the far right, the oh so delicate stubbly man with high cheek bones. They also had to coordinate their facial hair you see...unity and all.

 

I am so so so glad for DragonAge and it's lovely femQunari demo It was amazing and definitely stood out from the crowd.

[WildOrchid]

Yes, from left to right we have: stubbly man with round face, stubbly smirking man, stubbly McPointy chin, and on the far right, stubbly man with high cheek bones. They also had to coordinate their facial hair you see...unity and all.

 

Lmao

[Lady Nuggins]

Ugh, I'm following stuff on IGN and their coverage has been horrible. Where are these journalist, may I ask, because clearly I need to give them my business instead

 

And yeah, maybe its because of how much time I've spent on this forum in the past few months, but E3 has been glaringly lacking in diversity this year. Assassin's Creed Unity is the game that is truly upsetting imo. 4 main protags in a super established franchise and not a one could be a woman? Really

 

Unfortunately I saw that particular quote on Twitter, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to find it again.  But here's a couple positive ones so far.

 

http://games.on.net/...-brutal-bloody/

http://metro.co.uk/2...uttons-4708780/

 

The hilarious part about the AssCreed thing is how they actually had color-code them to tell them apart.  They are willing to sacrifice their iconic white cloak in order to have the exact same guy four different times.

[WildOrchid]

The hilarious part about the AssCreed thing is how they actually had color-code them to tell them apart.  They are willing to sacrifice their iconic white cloak in order to have the exact same guy four different times.

 

Aahahaha, that's even more hilarious indeed.

[AkiKishi]

Oh god, the ACU shitfest. Not one but 4 white, angry dudebros WITH stubble. Such diversity! Wow. I couldn't believe it when i saw the pic and then i laughed so hard. It was hysterical, let me tell u.

 

It still baffles me why they couldn't use 2 women in the party or hell, even one damn woman considering how many great assassin women are playable in their multiplayer.

 

I don't get Ubisoft. I really don't.

 

Now that I don't agree with at all. I'm actually surprised since Ubisoft made Liberation. In an either or choice I'll always support whatever the developer feels is best for them, but when you have 4 characters, there is really no excuse.

[WildOrchid]

To be fair, ubisoft made Beyond Good n Evil (and a sequel should be coming out as well). That's much better than AC.

 

I still don't get it. Are they so damn obsessed with dudes with stubble that they won't put one.woman. in their games (Aveline was in the vita that no one cared about so she doesn't count)? So far we had only one dude as protagonist and now we have 4 dudes, and not a single one woman in the latter. WHY.

 

I just wish they used some damn diversity. Ugh, that makes me sad because i love their games.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Unfortunately I saw that particular quote on Twitter, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to find it again.  But here's a couple positive ones so far.

 

http://games.on.net/...-brutal-bloody/

http://metro.co.uk/2...uttons-4708780/

 

The hilarious part about the AssCreed thing is how they actually had color-code them to tell them apart.  They are willing to sacrifice their iconic white cloak in order to have the exact same guy four different times.

 

Thank you for the links! IGN said over and over 'so this looks like Elder Scrolls Oblivion' to the point I had to stop streaming for a bit. so much rage.

 

Honestly, its pretty sad when you have 4 main characters and 'diversity' would be adding a blonde man to the line up.   Or god forbid someone clean shaven

[Bugsie]

 

 

And honestly, women LOVE dragons.  It's a fact.

Bugsie's first playthrough - fem qunari warrior, choice of mount - huge friggin' dragon (A giant friggin' lizard mount is also acceptable!)