9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

I mean...the problem with the 'it just looks cool to wear' is it looks cool to who? Who are you appealing to? And more often then not that part comes back to the male gaze stuff. So the frustrating thing for women often times then becomes seeing themselves not represented for themselves but for the benefit of being attractive to men, in or out of the game. As many women in this thread have said, they would not even consider going into battle without their breast properly bound.

 

 

 

I imagine it looks cool to a lot of people, I'm sure all of the designers of scantily clad female aren't male. Maybe some of them are designed based on what's "cool" and "badass" by the artist opinion. Now I'm not going to be dishonest and claim none of the designs are made to appeal to males, but I just don't think it's as absolute as feminist may think.

 

It's like they feel no one would find the designs attractive accept for "man children" and horny teenage males, and as if millions of females don't take out the time and money to cosplay these supposed "disgustingly" designed outfits from video games/anime each year.

[Lady Nuggins]

I mean...the problem with the 'it just looks cool to wear' is it looks cool to who? Who are you appealing to? And more often then not that part comes back to the male gaze stuff. So the frustrating thing for women often times then becomes seeing themselves not represented for themselves but for the benefit of being attractive to men, in or out of the game. As many women in this thread have said, they would not even consider going into battle without their breast properly bound.

 

This is exactly it.  And that is what objectification is.  Reducing a character to something that is there to be looked at, not somebody who is meant to be related to as a fellow human being.  Putting her in a costume that is sexy merely for the sake of being sexy, that most women would find uncomfortable, contributes to that.  And it can happen even to characters who are otherwise interesting and well-developed.

 

 

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

[Blue Gloves]

I've repeatedly heard people refer to female characters dressed a certain way as bimbos and undignified among other things, not just in this thread or even just on this forum..

 

Where, in this thread, have you seen this?  I ask because I am very, very put off by "****-shaming" and I haven't seen anything that I would consider even close.  So far, I've seen most people say "There's nothing wrong with nudity or dressing sexy, but it kinda sucks when women seem to be included in a narrative simply for the purpose of stimulating straight men."  Can give examples, from this thread (since we really can't be responsible for what's said elsewhere), of what you mean?

 

 

 

Why don't I hear these complaints about the males? Just about all of them are bare chested with war paint and little to no armor. How realistic or sensible is that? Especially the ones that are CC fighters?

 

I'm sorry, but have you actually taken the time to read through this thread?  I think you may be missing a few things.  I just went back and counted over 10 posts in the last 4 pages alone that reference the silliness of the male Qunari redesign and the fact that objectification, or similar, of males is just as wrong as that of females.

[HuldraDancer]

-snip-

 

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

Gotta say I got tired of that shot very quickly in game, doesn't help that her outfit has the texture of a soccer ball minus the black so I had an impulse to kick her bum whenever they zoomed in to show off the wedgie she was rocking. But if I had a gun to my head and had to choose I'd take Miranda's ass over Edi's c*mle toe any day. (why the hell does a robot have c*mle toe anyway was she a sex bot too?) Blah sorry for my rambling.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

This is a complicated topic.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with skimpy clothes.  Women can and should wear whatever they like--whether they bare skin or cover themselves from head to toe.  There is also nothing wrong with being sexy or liking sexy things. 

 

It comes down to who is putting that female character in a skimpy outfit and why are they doing it?  Are female characters dressed skimpily while male characters are not?  Does her attire make sense for her personality, the setting, the things she has to do, the movements she has to make?  The characters are not choosing to put themselves in these outfits, somebody else is. 

 

Most female video game characters have absolutely no reason to be put in bikinis and heels.  They are called upon to perform tasks that probably require sensible shoes and reasonable coverage.  Usually there is no explanation for why they would ever choose to dress themselves in the clothes they are drawn in.  So what reason could they possibly have to wear those clothes?  In the absence of any other explanation, the likely answer is, almost always, to please the male viewer. 

 

 

 

I've admitted a few times on here that I've liked alot of the females designs from bioware's latest games unapologetically. (Isabella, Samara, Miranda, Ashley in ME3, Jack, etc)

 

Their "oversexualized" outfits add to the overall appeal of the games to me, (none of them have bikinis on mind you) but they're just outfits. I don't base my opinion about their character and personality on how they dress, because that's such a small part of a person IMO.

 

Miranda could be completely dressed in bulked up armor and it still wouldn't change my opinion of her. She's a confident, sometimes abrasive, headstrong woman, who wouldn't let her father run her life or her sisters'.

 

I wish there more attractive male designs that would appeal to females so that we don't have to keep going round and round about this.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

This is exactly it.  And that is what objectification is.  Reducing a character to something that is there to be looked at, not somebody who is meant to be related to as a fellow human being.  Putting her in a costume that is sexy merely for the sake of being sexy, that most women would find uncomfortable, contributes to that.  And it can happen even to characters who are otherwise interesting and well-developed.

 

 

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

 

b-b-but that ass though 

[WildOrchid]

This is exactly it.  And that is what objectification is.  Reducing a character to something that is there to be looked at, not somebody who is meant to be related to as a fellow human being.  Putting her in a costume that is sexy merely for the sake of being sexy, that most women would find uncomfortable, contributes to that.  And it can happen even to characters who are otherwise interesting and well-developed.

 

 

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

 

Ugh. I like Miranda and sure she has an amazing body but... the buttshots annoyed me to no end. Every freaking time.

[WildOrchid]

b-b-but that ass though 

 

True.

I wonder though, why they didn't show any dude ass tho?

[HuldraDancer]

b-b-but that ass though 

Can get old very quickly especially if you're someone who doesn't care much about her character to begin with

[HuldraDancer]

True.

I wonder though, why they didn't show any dude ass tho?

Didn't they show Jacob's a bit? And he was in a wedgie clinging suit too if I recall correctly though its been a good while since I last played ME2. Though it was not shown anywhere near as much as Miranda's and when he talked about family it didn't keep going back to his bum unlike when Miranda was worrying about her sister odd timing for an a** shot if you ask me and I just went on a rambling again sorry.^^;

[Gwydden]

Can get old very quickly especially if you're someone who doesn't care much about her character to begin with

Frankly, I found it so jarring and juvenile that it was impossible to take it seriously. Haven't these people heard about being subtle? And tasteful?

Didn't they show Jacob's a bit? And he was in a wedgie clinging suit too if I recall correctly though its been a good while since I last played ME2. Though it was not shown anywhere near as much as Miranda's and when he talked about family it didn't keep going back to his bum unlike when Miranda was worrying about her sister odd timing for an a** shot if you ask me   and I just went on a rambling again sorry.^^;

My thoughts exactly. "Wasn't this supposed to be a serious conversation? Am I to interpret that Shepard is staring at her ass while she is there all worried about her family and asking for his help? What a jerk."

[oceanicsurvivor]

I imagine it looks cool to a lot of people, I'm sure all of the designers of scantily clad female aren't male. Maybe some of them are designed based on what's "cool" and "badass" by the artist opinion. Now I'm not going to be dishonest and claim none of the designs are made to appeal to males, but I just don't think it's as absolute as feminist may think.

 

It's like they feel no one would find the designs attractive accept for "man children" and horny teenage males, and as if millions of females don't take out the time and money to cosplay these supposed "disgustingly" designed outfits from video games/anime each year.

 

I mean, I'm sure there are women concept artist who perpetuate the scantily clad female warrior stereotypes? Part of that being b/c its so ingrained as 'just style' in our culture, ignoring the great implications, that it can be easy for people to blow past it. Also, if concept artists-of any gender-were uncomfortable with the oversexualization of women in the work they were being asked to do, there is no guarantee they could do anything about it. I mean, if your boss tells you to draw women in battle bikini's...you either draw them or look for a new job. So, I mean, none of us should mistake the prevalence of these outfits for proof that the majority of developers feel this way or view women this way, but it certainly says that those at the top most level approve of those designs/choices.

 

This is exactly it.  And that is what objectification is.  Reducing a character to something that is there to be looked at, not somebody who is meant to be related to as a fellow human being.  Putting her in a costume that is sexy merely for the sake of being sexy, that most women would find uncomfortable, contributes to that.  And it can happen even to characters who are otherwise interesting and well-developed.

 

 

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

 

I legitimately thought this was a camera error/glitch the first time it happened. But then they did it again...and again...Like, this ticks me off for so many reasons. Bioware wanted to be more cinematic with their cutscenes and stuff so they use a shot angle you probably would only find in a porno Disgraceful.

[Blue Gloves]

Poor Miranda.  I always wondered how she could move with that atomic wedgie, let alone with the camera mysteriously gravitating towards her behind at every opportunity. 

 

To be honest, I didn't mind Miranda and Edi's portrayal too much.  Miranda made it clear early on that she purposely accentuated her looks in order to manipulate certain situations, and also that her self esteem was very low- I mean "self esteem" was one of her very first conversation options.  Her crazy uniform was just a part of her character.  As for Edi- the ****** was silly, yes, but she actually addressed the way her mobile platform looked with Legion.  Her "body" was intended to do a lot of things, and my guess would be that one of them was to act as a kind of femme fatale in certain situations.

 

No, the design that bothered me was Ashley's.  I mean really, Battle heels?  You're telling me that the bad ass weapons chief I met in ME1- the one who practiced Marine hand to hand from the time she was little, the one who slogged her way through the trenches on the crappiest assignments the Alliance had to offer, the one who managed to survive Eden Prime through sheer force of will and badassery- wore freaking makeup, flowing hair, and heels into combat?!!? Really?

[Gwydden]

No, the design that bothered me was Ashley's.  I mean really, Battle heels?  You're telling me that the bad ass weapons chief I met in ME1- the one who practiced Marine hand to hand from the time she was little, the one who slogged her way through the trenches on the crappiest assignments the Alliance had to offer, the one who managed to survive Eden Prime through sheer force of will and badassery- wore freaking makeup, flowing hair, and heels into combat?!!? Really?

The most fascinating thing is how this drastic change in attitude and fashion sense happened in like six months and we don't get to say anything about it.

[Blue Gloves]

camel, um, foot digit, is censored?  LOL- that seems excessive

[HuldraDancer]

To be honest, I didn't mind Miranda and Edi's portrayal too much.  Miranda made it clear early on that she purposely accentuated her looks in order to manipulate certain situations, and also that her self esteem was very low- I mean "self esteem" was one of her very first conversation options.  Her crazy uniform was just a part of her character.  As for Edi- the ****** was silly, yes, but she actually addressed the way her mobile platform looked with Legion.  Her "body" was intended to do a lot of things, and my guess would be that one of them was to act as a kind of femme fatale in certain situations.

 

No, the design that bothered me was Ashley's.  I mean really, Battle heels?  You're telling me that the bad ass weapons chief I met in ME1- the one who practiced Marine hand to hand from the time she was little, the one who slogged her way through the trenches on the crappiest assignments the Alliance had to offer, the one who managed to survive Eden Prime through sheer force of will and badassery- wore freaking makeup, flowing hair, and heels into combat?!!? Really?

 

But its c*mle toe! Why in the nine hells would a robot ever need that? Unless it's a sex bot on top of it, giving her breast okay I get that since robot made to look more human but why does it need a vagina too? Also I kind of disagree on Miranda too yes she was design to be perfect but it didn't make the constant a**shots okay or add anything to her and got old fast (for me at least)

 

I agree with you on Ashley though the hair down and the battle heels made me have to pause the game and put the controller aside for a little bit the first time I saw it. I miss ME and ME2 Ashley ME3 Ashley was not the same Ashely and I refuse to believe she was (extreme yes but I liked ME Ashley she looked piratical darn it.)

[oceanicsurvivor]

 

No, the design that bothered me was Ashley's.  I mean really, Battle heels?  You're telling me that the bad ass weapons chief I met in ME1- the one who practiced Marine hand to hand from the time she was little, the one who slogged her way through the trenches on the crappiest assignments the Alliance had to offer, the one who managed to survive Eden Prime through sheer force of will and badassery- wore freaking makeup, flowing hair, and heels into combat?!!? Really?

 

It wasn't even regulation. They specifically redesigned Alliance uniforms and then...I can't ...And then they left it as a combat option...that'd be like sending Vega out in his t-shirt and cargo pants. Which clearly they did not do. They gave him like a bajillion sets of massive armor. Ash didn't even have a real ME1 Phoenix armor option. Ah, Blue Gloves, you shouldn't get me started on this!

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

The most fascinating thing is how this drastic change in attitude and fashion sense happened in like six months and we don't get to say anything about it.

 

People can't change clothes? BTW She acts completely the same as in the other games. She just has her hair down and is wearing a different outfit (1 of three new outfits BTW) 

 

I've googled her main outfit from ME3 and I can't tell whether or not she's wearing heels.

[WildOrchid]

Didn't they show Jacob's a bit? And he was in a wedgie clinging suit too if I recall correctly though its been a good while since I last played ME2. Though it was not shown anywhere near as much as Miranda's and when he talked about family it didn't keep going back to his bum unlike when Miranda was worrying about her sister odd timing for an a** shot if you ask me and I just went on a rambling again sorry.^^;

 

Ah yes i forgot Jacob.

I don't remember showing his butt though?

 

 

AANNND, the famous EDI's cameltoe. She's a robot. Why the cameltoe then? /facepalm.

[Blue Gloves]

The most fascinating thing is how this drastic change in attitude and fashion sense happened in like six months and we don't get to say anything about it.

 

Right?  I mean where was the "Woah, you've changed." option?  It was just so weird. 

[Gwydden]

People can't change clothes? BTW She acts completely the same as in the other games. She just has her hair down and is wearing a different outfit (1 of three new outfits BTW) 

 

I've googled her main outfit from ME3 and I can't tell whether or not she's wearing heels.

Sure they can. But I would expect being able to ask, and get a reasonable explanation out of her. "Oh, well, you see, I came across this Vogue magazine..."

 

If she showed up dressed like that in Purgatory, it'd be a different thing. But why all of a sudden she went from wearing standard alliance uniform and pulling her hair back in combat and while on the Normandy to, well, doing exactly the opposite?

[HuldraDancer]

Ah yes i forgot Jacob.

I don't remember showing his butt though?

 

 

AANNND, the famous EDI's cameltoe. She's a robot. Why the cameltoe then? /facepalm.

 

I think it showed up sometimes when you talked to him but I usually did so little of that because of Female Shepard sounding like she was going to molest him but it was there.

 

 

My guess is was she was also a sex bot that's the only reason I could think of as to why she would have one. Better than thinking the people who made her model though it was a good idea to add it. 

[The Hierophant]

Ah yes i forgot Jacob.
I don't remember showing his butt though?
 
 
AANNND, the famous EDI's cameltoe. She's a robot. Why the cameltoe then? /facepalm.

Nah what's notable about Jacob's scenes were when fem Shep was in sex offender mode, and his highly detailed abs.

Still got nothin' on dat ass.

[kukumburr]

mmm

 

If I can get a design like that I wouldn't mind playing as the female Qunari.

 

Heh I'm way past justifying outfits in video games of all places. I just want something that looks cool and sexy, and that definitely fits the bill.

 

And the nerve of people complaining about this when just about every male Qunari in DA2 was completely shirtless. 

 

Why do people think a man's exposed chest is equivalent to a woman's? Bare-chested men can be sexualized but it's also perfectly acceptable for men to walk around with no shirt on because it's not considered inherently sexual. Women's exposed breasts, on the other hand, are usually considered sexual by default. (Not that I agree that that's how things should be, but that's how most of Western society and media currently view it. God forbid you have a nip slip on TV.)

 

The equivalent to the female qunari in that picture would be a male qunari wearing skin-tight pants that formed a "V" shape pointing to his bulge. How often do we see anything like that? That said, I'm not actually against having optional armor similar to that as long as there are plenty of practical options too. One thing I like about SWTOR is that there are "sexy" armor options but almost all of them are ones that you have to go a bit out of your way to get. Most of the armor you get as a reward looks practical enough that it won't fall off when you move ever so slightly. So while something like the Leia slave girl outfit is available, it's also easily avoidable.

 

I don't have a problem with wearing revealing clothing in general, it just looks out of place when you're out adventuring and fighting. Mostly because it just downright wouldn't be comfortable. There's a reason most people don't go hiking in just a bikini. I mean if my Inquisitor was wearing that strap thing the qunari in the picture has on all I would be thinking about while riding a horse is "how are my boobs not flopping all over the place?" But I know some people don't care about things like that, so I'm not against having impractical options too. I do think sexy-but-impractical armor is overused a lot though, and when you're constantly exposed to female characters that apparently value looking good to men over comfort and maneuverability, I personally feel like it starts to send the message that "appearance is the most important thing" which can be harmful. Basically what I'm saying is I'd like more variety in female character's appearances overall (although I think Dragon Age is pretty good with this, so I'm not worried about Inquisition.)

[Lady Nuggins]

To be honest, I didn't mind Miranda and Edi's portrayal too much.  Miranda made it clear early on that she purposely accentuated her looks in order to manipulate certain situations, and also that her self esteem was very low- I mean "self esteem" was one of her very first conversation options.  Her crazy uniform was just a part of her character.  As for Edi- the ****** was silly, yes, but she actually addressed the way her mobile platform looked with Legion.  Her "body" was intended to do a lot of things, and my guess would be that one of them was to act as a kind of femme fatale in certain situations.

 

No, the design that bothered me was Ashley's.  I mean really, Battle heels?  You're telling me that the bad ass weapons chief I met in ME1- the one who practiced Marine hand to hand from the time she was little, the one who slogged her way through the trenches on the crappiest assignments the Alliance had to offer, the one who managed to survive Eden Prime through sheer force of will and badassery- wore freaking makeup, flowing hair, and heels into combat?!!? Really?

 

See, I can accept that Miranda is a beauty queen and that everything about her appearance is designed to portray herself in a certain way to the people around her.  Her attitude is actually one that I've seen in many businesswomen, and I found it refreshing.  And the catsuit is, for the most part, in keeping with her position and the setting.  But no real world catsuit will creep that far up a person's crack.  And she did not place her OWN ass in front of the invisible camera.  The camera deliberately lingers on her body for the audience's benefit and no other reason.

 

And the worst part, for me, is when other characters in the game actually do ****-shame her for it.  When a villain says something like "I'm sorry, I was waiting for you to get dressed."  When she gets called a ****** and an ice queen for being a little abrupt, while characters like Zaeed are running around.

 

 

People can't change clothes? BTW She acts completely the same as in the other games. She just has her hair down and is wearing a different outfit (1 of three new outfits BTW) 

 

I've googled her main outfit from ME3 and I can't tell whether or not she's wearing heels.

 

But she just happens to get a massive beauty makeover in the game where Femshep also gets a massive beauty makeover?  And goes from a completely practical, plain appearance to magazine model?  The first time I saw a picture of ME3 Ashley, I had no idea who she was.  I thought she was a new character entirely.