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Could we please see more of the Lady Inquisitor?


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#3976
HuldraDancer

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It may have been in this thread but somewhere I read a really good idea where your gender might influence NPC interactions in very specific, personalized kind of examples. For instance your female PC might have trouble convincing a guard to let her in somewhere because he may have grown up with an abusive mother and now mistrusts women. Or a merchant might give a discount at his shop to your male PC because he might remind him of his long dead brother.

 

Stuff like that that kind of colors all the little side stories. As long as it's not a generalized weird sexism thing, I'm happy.

Those were the kinds of things I meant yes interactions like that was what I was wondering about and they are good suggestions I'm just too tired right now to come up with anything  like that to try and explain what I meant. It would be interesting to see both affect certain characters as well like instead of you being judged on just one like in DAO you're judged on all of those factors, race, gender, class all of it.



#3977
aTigerslunch

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Spoiler

 

I ran out of likes..... wanted to say I like these  :)   Yes I am dropping them into a spoiler tag since was a few. Blue Gloves, Brass Buckles, Allan, and Oceanic's posts. 


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#3978
naddaya

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Women, on the whole, are less likely than men, on the whole, to go into activities that are high risk or aggressive. Such as learning combat. I would absolutely say women are less likely to have the necessary mindset.


Partially right. Women produce less testosterone, testosterone boosts aggressivity. Not that big of a difference though, mindset mostly has to do with upbringing, and gender-specific upbringings are generally determined by culture.

#3979
Tayah

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Spoiler

 

I ran out of likes..... wanted to say I like these  :)   Yes I am dropping them into a spoiler tag since was a few. Blue Gloves, Brass Buckles, Allan, and Oceanic's posts. 

I ran out of likes too and I wanted to like all of these as well so thanks for making it easier for me aTigerslunch and "like" for all of the posts please.  :D

 

I'm a little wary of gender gated content except in romances where it has more importance because as we've seen previously it often tends to fall back into negative tropes, sexism and being the target of sexual harassment by the really creepy characters for females and not really any negatives for males so it would have to be really well done to interest me. Race gating I get in the context of Thedas and also class gating for solutions to problems/encounters especially considering how the different races are perceived and treated in different countries and regions as are the different classes and their skills... mages being feared or mistrusted for example and while warriors may be liked by the nobility the peasants of Orlais probably aren't terribly thrilled to see them for example. (Note this is based on the way that Orlesian Cheveliers treat peasants and common classes badly and are free to rape them, beat them and so on without consequences so I'm guessing the lower classes would be wary of fully armed and armoured warriors too).

 

It will be interesting to see what differences there are for playing different races, classes and genders if they do include those and if so whether they do manage to find ways of making gender choice positive regardless of whether you play male or female. :unsure:    


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#3980
Trikormadenadon

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That was nice. :P I liked that it equalized the playing field a little bit. But it was just a drop in an otherwise ocean filled with male-gaze crap.

Has to start somewhere, don't bawk at small victories.



#3981
Trikormadenadon

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I dunno Jacob as well as Veda really missed the mark with me. I know they both had macho muscly man shots... Was that meant to appeal to women?

 

I was really surprised to learn that Thane was created by women. I have a hard time imagining why an older guy who carries around detailed memories of his beloved wife and is terminally ill and has weird lizard eyes could appeal to anyone....... :P

 

It's interesting to kind of see what women find attractive versus what men or women THINK women find attractive.

I think you are the first woman on this forum I have ever seen say they were not attracted to Thane. I have seen many, many say they are. So my guess, it's just you, not women in general.



#3982
Trikormadenadon

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So let's bring it back to Dragon Age.  While we're on the topic of makeovers, what are your guys' thoughts on what we've seen of Leliana and Morrigan?  From the perspective of female representation, that is.  I know lots of people have opinions on their hotness or lack thereof, but I want to talk about them more in the vein of what we've been discussing here.

You mean for outfits and such? i think both Leliana and Morrigan have appropriate attire for the settings I have seen them shown in the videos I have seen. Morrigan in a dress in Orlais court or Leliana in a stealthy costume for her spy duties makes sense to me. Nothing overdone there that I can see. Not a fan of Morrigan's looks with the new engine but I think Leliana looks a lot better.



#3983
Ser Pounce A Lot_

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I ran out of likes too and I wanted to like all of these as well so thanks for making it easier for me aTigerslunch and "like" for all of the posts please.  :D

 

I'm a little wary of gender gated content except in romances where it has more importance because as we've seen previously it often tends to fall back into negative tropes, sexism and being the target of sexual harassment by the really creepy characters for females and not really any negatives for males so it would have to be really well done to interest me. Race gating I get in the context of Thedas and also class gating for solutions to problems/encounters especially considering how the different races are perceived and treated in different countries and regions as are the different classes and their skills... mages being feared or mistrusted for example and while warriors may be liked by the nobility the peasants of Orlais probably aren't terribly thrilled to see them for example. (Note this is based on the way that Orlesian Cheveliers treat peasants and common classes badly and are free to rape them, beat them and so on without consequences so I'm guessing the lower classes would be wary of fully armed and armoured warriors too).

 

It will be interesting to see what differences there are for playing different races, classes and genders if they do include those and if so whether they do manage to find ways of making gender choice positive regardless of whether you play male or female. :unsure:    

 

Can you give examples of this in previous Bioware games? I've played as a female in ME1, ME2, ME3, and Dragon Age 2. Most of the time people don't care about your gender one way or another. You're not treated any differently than a male character for the most part.

Of course then there's the "men with boobs" argument if you don't differentiate female characters from males in a certain way, which I think is unbelievably stupid.



#3984
Gwydden

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Can you give examples of this in previous Bioware games?

Off the top of my head we have Emile de Launcet and one of the miners in that DA2 quest, Isabela saying Hawke would have to fend off lots of touching at the Hanged Man and Harkin (I had to google his name) hitting on Shepard in a very non classy way in ME1.

 

Though not really harassment, I think a female Warden could propose to get it on with that dwarven merchant in Redcliffe in exchange for Sten's sword. That crept me out, but I have no idea of how it went.



#3985
Trikormadenadon

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I was chatting with a female colleague at work today about how excited I am for DAI. She plays video games, too, and has played all of the ME but none of the DA games. She did ask me whether you can play a female in DAI. She explained that she is not really interested in playing games where she has to be a guy. So... anyway, I told her yes, absolutely, she can be female.  I also rattled on about all the other things I'm really excited about, and she is thinking of buying it now. But she wouldn't have, if she didn't know she could play as a female avatar.

Maybe it's just the 20+ years of table top rpger in me but I don't understand why people would dismiss a game just because you cant play as the same sex as you are. I have played many games where you had to be female and I loved them, and no, they are not all presented in a way that cheapens women. For some reason I just can't wrap my head around that so it makes me roll my eyes when I see people say stuff like that.... perhaps I am missing some undertone I am oblivious to. I mean, there are some very strong capable not oversexualized female characters in video games and I have great times playing those games. Why can't women do the same with male leads? Not all male leads are set to cater to only male players either. (Not that I feel there is anything wrong with their point of view, I simply do not understand)

 

Kudos to you opening her eyes to DA but it begs the question....If she played ME, why would she even need to ask if you could be either sex in DA? One look at the box art and see BioWare on the cover and you have your answer. Unless she only rarely plays games (and the impression I got from you post is that this is not so) then she should be aware of BioWare and thus should not even need to ask. Sound more like she was flirting with you to me. LOL....but seriously, good work making another person interested in DA.


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#3986
Trikormadenadon

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Hmm, not really, no.  Leliana does appear in both Asunder and The Masked Empire, but there's no real insight given into how she became the hand of the divine, or what caused her to "harden up."  I think we're bound to get more character exposition (is that the correct use of the word?) in the upcoming game though.  I think this is the appropriate space to say though, that I loved the

"You will break!" 

"I will die first!"

part of the trailer.  I didn't particularly care for Leliana in DAO- didn't hate her, but didn't really care for her either; but that one scene made me go "Hells Yeah!!!"

Finally, I could never understand what the last word the creature was saying....now that scene makes perfect sense. I mean, I figured it was something like that but there are so many things that could be followed by I will die first that I was not absolutely sure. Thank you.



#3987
Trikormadenadon

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I have no idea how this thread ended up here, as I have not read the last few pages, but ...

 

In our universe this may be true, because women are far less likely to be socialised that way. (And, in fact, often receive disapproval for behaving aggressively or taking risks.)

 

What the hell does that have to do with life in Thedas, though, where the warrior-prophet was a woman?

The conversation is not being specific to DA. They are talking in generalizations.



#3988
WildOrchid

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Maybe it's just the 20+ years of table top rpger in me but I don't understand why people would dismiss a game just because you cant play as the same sex as you are. I have played many games where you had to be female and I loved them, and no, they are not all presented in a way that cheapens women. For some reason I just can't wrap my head around that so it makes me roll my eyes when I see people say stuff like that.... perhaps I am missing some undertone I am oblivious to. I mean, there are some very strong capable not oversexualized female characters in video games and I have great times playing those games. Why can't women do the same with male leads? Not all male leads are set to cater to only male players either. (Not that I feel there is anything wrong with their point of view, I simply do not understand)

 

The fact is that there are more male characters than female out there, is the reason why she wants to play a female. Call it refreshing (me included, i'm tired of the usual generic dude in games).

It could also be because some people don't want to play a certain gender for personal tastes.

 

The real problem here is games with female protagonists, compared to generic dude protags, are very few.


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#3989
Trikormadenadon

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So about the female PC anyone worried that we might get some head shaking dialog if you choose the female gender again like in DAO? Or wondering that your gender may make it harder or easier to talk to certain characters for information , open up a new area, etc?

This may not be a popular opinion but I hope so. I like it when my female playthroguhs can do different things than my male playthroughs and I love it when some douche underestimates me in the game because I'm playing a woman and I get to curb stomp his butt.



#3990
Pateu

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i'm tired of the usual generic dude in games

 

Well, tough luck.

 

Most armies are made up of men.



#3991
Trikormadenadon

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I don't know how gender will be handled in DA:I but I do remember from previews I read before DA:O that women were going to be intentionally marginalized in that game, so that if you were a female elf mage (my first choice specifically for this reason) you'd be the lowest of the low, and then you could prove via the events in-game that you were better than that.  And part of the reason that this was done was not to be sexist but to explore how crappy sexism is (along with racism and other forms of bigotry), so I found myself intrigued.

 

With the recent attempts at being more inclusive and open-minded, and the acknowledgement that Thedas isn't Earth and doesn't need to share the same sordid social history, however, it might be that women are more equal in game than they were in the previous games.  I do know it was noted as being unusual for women to enter the military forces/knighthood, but not unheard of--in both the books and in DAO.

 

I do want to see gender factor into interactions, but I do not want any more self-disparaging sexist comments from my protagonist as in DA:O.  If sexism occurs, I want to be able to deal with it somehow in-game, and not just have that "dealing with" only affect my Inquisitor, but also help other women.  Maybe, like in The Banner Saga, turn village homemakers into extra fighters--maybe not the most skilled, but by adding sheer numbers you add to the overall might of your forces (and the villages' defenses).  And I'm not really okay with skeevy sexually harrassing comments like we've gotten in the past from certain individual characters (i.e. Harkin in Mass Effect), unless men get an equivalent of this.  It's hard for that to happen since men usually just get standard insults, but women get sexual harrassment... So I'd rather they both be insulted, or both be harrassed. If that makes sense.  It's late, I'm tired.

The only problem with the sexual harassment issue in you statement here is that it won't have the impact, the button press if you will, on men as it will on women. Most men in real life ignore when they are being sexually harassed, some even enjoy it. It just won't have the same impact on men as it does on women so if the writers are trying to illicit a prescribed response from the player they have to attack them differently.



#3992
Nefla

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At this point I'm putting this guy on ignore.  All he wants to do is argue; there is no point to discussing anything with him as he will always support the status quo.

I put that quarrelsome individual on ignore a while ago. It sucks to have to still see his posts through people quoting him.

 

 

You know what, you're right.  I certainly don't need to hear yet another person imply that I'm an anomaly for having served in combat.  There have been thousands- thousands!- of women in the U.S. alone who've earned CAB's (5567, to be exact).  The fact that its not as high a number as the male equivalent has far more to with the societal restrictions than anything else- you know what?  Nope.  Not engaging any more.  

When I was a teenager, I wanted to join the military when I graduated but I was scoffed at and told not to be a she-man, etc...

 

Maybe it's just the 20+ years of table top rpger in me but I don't understand why people would dismiss a game just because you cant play as the same sex as you are. I have played many games where you had to be female and I loved them, and no, they are not all presented in a way that cheapens women. For some reason I just can't wrap my head around that so it makes me roll my eyes when I see people say stuff like that.... perhaps I am missing some undertone I am oblivious to. I mean, there are some very strong capable not oversexualized female characters in video games and I have great times playing those games. Why can't women do the same with male leads? Not all male leads are set to cater to only male players either. (Not that I feel there is anything wrong with their point of view, I simply do not understand)

 

Kudos to you opening her eyes to DA but it begs the question....If she played ME, why would she even need to ask if you could be either sex in DA? One look at the box art and see BioWare on the cover and you have your answer. Unless she only rarely plays games (and the impression I got from you post is that this is not so) then she should be aware of BioWare and thus should not even need to ask. Sound more like she was flirting with you to me. LOL....but seriously, good work making another person interested in DA.

Women have been forced to play almost exclusively with male leads for as long as games have been a thing. It's great that you're fine playing a female character, but I guarantee you most games you play have a male lead because most games have a male lead. Can you enjoy yet another male led game if you're a woman? Of course, but it's far less appealing after having been flooded with male PCs since birth. It's also a problem with countless game companies who force their protagonist into that same generic straight white dark haired male with stubble. I am very unlikely to play a game with that kind of protagonist anymore. It feels like if this company is that lazy and uncreative with the main character, how is the rest of the game going to be? Add to that if he's that same cardboard cutout I'm not going to identify with him and that's essential for me playing a game.

 

Choice in one game doesn't equal choice in another, even from the same company. I could have assumed that since I could play different races in DA:O I would be able to in DA2 but that wasn't the case.

 

How...does a conversation about games=flirting? :?

 

 

The only problem with the sexual harassment issue in you statement here is that it won't have the impact, the button press if you will, on men as it will on women. Most men in real life ignore when they are being sexually harassed, some even enjoy it. It just won't have the same impact on men as it does on women so if the writers are trying to illicit a prescribed response from the player they have to attack them differently.

They'll definitely react if it's another man sexually harassing them.


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#3993
Trikormadenadon

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The fact is that there are more male characters than female out there, is the reason why she wants to play a female. Call it refreshing (me included, i'm tired of the usual generic dude in games).

It could also be because some people don't want to play a certain gender for personal tastes.

 

The real problem here is games with female protagonists, compared to generic dude protags, are very few.

I'm sorry, but just because there are more male protagonists does not seem like a very good reason to dismiss a game just because it has a male protagonists. Personally, it sounds like sexism to me. "Oh I don't like that game because the main character is male." Yup, sexism.



#3994
Trikormadenadon

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*Edited out some stuff that was responding to other people.*

 

Women have been forced to play almost exclusively with male leads for as long as games have been a thing. It's great that you're fine playing a female character, but I guarantee you most games you play have a male lead because most games have a male lead. Can you enjoy yet another male led game if you're a woman? Of course, but it's far less appealing after having been flooded with male PCs since birth. It's also a problem with countless game companies who force their protagonist into that same generic straight white dark haired male with stubble. I am very unlikely to play a game with that kind of protagonist anymore. It feels like if this company is that lazy and uncreative with the main character, how is the rest of the game going to be? Add to that if he's that same cardboard cutout I'm not going to identify with him and that's essential for me playing a game.

 

Choice in one game doesn't equal choice in another, even from the same company. I could have assumed that since I could play different races in DA:O I would be able to in DA2 but that wasn't the case.

 

How...does a conversation about games=flirting? :?

 

 

*Same edit as above.*

I still think it a poor reason to dismiss a game. It sexism. Pure and simple regardless of the reasons behind it. EDIT: People are well within their rights to choose to be sexist if they want to be. But at least be willing to accept it for what it is. Is it sexist that the video game industry caters to males mostly? Yes. is it sexist to dismiss a game because the main character is male? Yes. In my opinion, people should put the merit on the game, not whether or not the main character is male or female.

 

As far as the carbon copy male protagonists, there are many of those for female ones too but it is still not a good enough reason to dismiss a game over. EDIT: In my opinion anyways.

 

Not being able to play a different race is a bit different than not being able to play a different sex in my opinion. Like comparing apples and oranges.

 

The flirting thing was a joke, relax. I was just joking that she might have been pretending to not know so she could continue to talk with him.

 

Although I disagree with the reasoning you supplied, at least now I have a bit of insight into some of the reasons people dismiss male protagonist games. For that I am appreciative.



#3995
robertthebard

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I put that quarrelsome individual on ignore a while ago. It sucks to have to still see his posts through people quoting him.
 
 
When I was a teenager, I wanted to join the military when I graduated but I was scoffed at and told not to be a she-man, etc...


Did you do it anyway? If not, is your bowing to peer pressure the fault of the peers, or your own? I'm of the considered opinion that I'm going to do what I want to do, and so long as it's legal, nobody is going to tell me I can't do it, unless, of course, I'm physically unable to. I'd love to walk out to the drive way and lift my car up high enough to put it on blocks so I could fix my exhaust, but those physical limitations...
 

Women have been forced to play almost exclusively with male leads for as long as games have been a thing. It's great that you're fine playing a female character, but I guarantee you most games you play have a male lead because most games have a male lead. Can you enjoy yet another male led game if you're a woman? Of course, but it's far less appealing after having been flooded with male PCs since birth. It's also a problem with countless game companies who force their protagonist into that same generic straight white dark haired male with stubble. I am very unlikely to play a game with that kind of protagonist anymore. It feels like if this company is that lazy and uncreative with the main character, how is the rest of the game going to be? Add to that if he's that same cardboard cutout I'm not going to identify with him and that's essential for me playing a game.


Then you have the choice to vote with your wallet. There's nothing complicated about it. I would submit, however, that that's true with anything in life. However, I'm not sure how long you've been gaming, but really, I can't see that a female protag in Mario Bros. would make much of a difference, way back when it was just Nintendo, and you had to blow in cartridges sometimes to get the dust out. I mean, he's so little that you can't really tell, one way or the other. 

Choice in one game doesn't equal choice in another, even from the same company. I could have assumed that since I could play different races in DA:O I would be able to in DA2 but that wasn't the case.
 
How...does a conversation about games=flirting? :?
 
 
They'll definitely react if it's another man sexually harassing them.


I'd react the same way I do when women flirt with me, I reject them. It's pretty easy, and I've actually had to do it. Of course, I don't consider hitting on me once sexual harassment. If I reject him, and persists, I'll demonstrate my lack of interest by breaking his nose, or his jaw. Back in my day, women used to slap men that behaved inappropriately towards them. I'm not sure if it's a generational disconnect, or maybe the crowd, but in my crowd, even today, if a woman feels like a man is out of line, she's subject to beat his ass.

#3996
WildOrchid

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I'm sorry, but just because there are more male protagonists does not seem like a very good reason to dismiss a game just because it has a male protagonists. Personally, it sounds like sexism to me. "Oh I don't like that game because the main character is male." Yup, sexism.

 

Not even close to sexism.

We are tired of male protagonists. When you get to play the same generic dude in every game, it can be annoying and tiresome so yes, it's a pretty good reason. There are people who prefer playing women and of course there are dudes who prefer to play dudes. Not everything is about straight, white dudes.

 

 

If someone says "No more males in games, make women from now on", yep this is sexism. Someone not liking the protagonist because he's some overused generic bald or with a little hair and stubble dude is not sexism. It's the person being literally tired of the same way 98% of games are done.

 

 

Edit: and of course i'm not saying i don't like males in games, Lee is probably one of my favorite male protagonists of the Walking dead. What i'm saying is there should be more games with women too, games with POCs.... like diversity and all.


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#3997
Trikormadenadon

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They'll definitely react if it's another man sexually harassing them.

And many women would brush off sexual harassment from other women too.

My point was that men and women react differently to different stimuli so you can't just use the same things to push the button of both men and women. 



#3998
Ser Pounce A Lot_

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It seems people need to get past the female representation topic in AAA games, since that only makes up just a small percentage of games as a whole.

 

Mobile, browser, and indie games are all very inclusive and I'm pretty sure they make up the majority of games on the market today. Only a few AAA games (not counting sports) come out each year compared the other types.

 

The problem arises when people ignore indie and mobile games as "not real games just casual" and use AAA as the end all be all. The AAA market has always been supported by the "core" gamer which is the 17-35 male demographic.

 

Just as romance and YA novels (and the movies based on them) have catered to females and has made billions. (often containing the same "tropes" people deride AAA games for)

 

Just like boybands and emo/scene bands in music, soaps, and just about everything on ABC/CW primetime TV.

 

All of these examples are just fractions of their overall respective industries, just like AAA gaming.



#3999
Trikormadenadon

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Not even close to sexism.

We are tired of male protagonists. When you get to play the same generic dude in every game, it can be annoying and tiresome so yes, it's a pretty good reason. There are people who prefer playing women and of course there are dudes who prefer to play dudes. Not everything is about straight, white dudes.

 

Definition of sexism...

Prejudice, stereotyping or discrimination on the basis of sex.

 

Sounds EXACTLY like sexism to me...

 

As I said before, regardless of the reasons behind it, it is still sexism.

 

EDIT: Also as I have said before, I am fine with people being sexist if they choose to be, but at least have the courage to admit you are being sexist.



#4000
Trikormadenadon

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It seems people need to get past the female representation topic in AAA games, since that only makes up just a small percentage of games as a whole.

 

Mobile, browser, and indie games are all very inclusive and I'm pretty sure they make up the majority of games on the market today. Only a few AAA games (not counting sports) come out each year compared the other types.

 

The problem arises when people ignore indie and mobile games as "not real games just casual" and use AAA as the end all be all. The AAA market has always been supported by the "core" gamer which is the 17-35 male demographic.

 

Just as romance and YA novels (and the movies based on them) have catered to females and has made billions. (often containing the same "tropes" people deride AAA games for)

 

Just like boybands and emo/scene bands in music, soaps, and just about everything on ABC/CW primetime TV.

 

All of these examples are just fractions of their overall respective industries, just like AAA gaming.

It's because AAA games get the spotlight is all. I don't think anyone is dismissing women's roles in those other games.


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