9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

It seems people need to get past the female representation topic in AAA games, since that only makes up just a small percentage of games as a whole.

 

Mobile, browser, and indie games are all very inclusive and I'm pretty sure they make up the majority of games on the market today. Only a few AAA games (not counting sports) come out each year compared the other types.

 

The problem arises when people ignore indie and mobile games as "not real games just casual" and use AAA as the end all be all. The AAA market has always been supported by the "core" gamer which is the 17-35 male demographic.

AAA games have a larger public presence, ergo they have more impact in popular culture. The bolded statement is also false at present, and more so every day, as there are more women who get into gaming every year. If AAA games keep catering to their particular idea of the "straight male gamer" is likely simply due to inertia.

[WildOrchid]

Definition of sexism...

Prejudice, stereotyping or discrimination on the basis of sex.

 

Sounds EXACTLY like sexism to me...

 

As I said before, regardless of the reasons behind it, it is still sexism.

 

EDIT: Also as I have said before, I am fine with people being sexist if they choose to be, but at least have the courage to admit you are being sexist.

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to believe that, sure go on.

I haven't seen anyone here hating on men, more like hating the same overused thing all the time.

[robertthebard]

Definition of sexism...
Prejudice, stereotyping or discrimination on the basis of sex.
 
Sounds EXACTLY like sexism to me...
 
As I said before, regardless of the reasons behind it, it is still sexism.
 
EDIT: Also as I have said before, I am fine with people being sexist if they choose to be, but at least have the courage to admit you are being sexist.

Except that:

1

: prejudice or discrimination based on sex; especially : discrimination against women


2

: behavior, conditions, or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex

They invented the term, and they get to define it. Looking at it, I don't see how it applies to the protagonist in a video game, it's not like they add a female protagonist that can only be somebody else's wife. Exclusion isn't exactly discriminating against them based on sex. Inclusion can lead to all types of misunderstandings however, such as:

Off the top of my head we have Emile de Launcet and one of the miners in that DA2 quest, Isabela saying Hawke would have to fend off lots of touching at the Hanged Man and Harkin (I had to google his name) hitting on Shepard in a very non classy way in ME1.
 
Though not really harassment, I think a female Warden could propose to get it on with that dwarven merchant in Redcliffe in exchange for Sten's sword. That crept me out, but I have no idea of how it went.

Which may indeed be the reason that most developers don't do it. If you do it, and include anything that may resemble something that may happen in real life, you have fallen back into "negative tropes, sexism or sexual harassment of the female protag".

[Trikormadenadon]

Except that:


They invented the term, and they get to define it. Looking at it, I don't see how it applies to the protagonist in a video game.

Just because the term is often used in reference to sexism towards women, does not mean it does not apply toward men also. You cant see it in the quote above but the key word being 'especially' which is short hand for 'mostly against women but also against men'.

 

It applies to the games in this conversation because the ONLY reason they are choosing to not play is because there is a male lead. No other reason. That is sexism at it's finest. (Remember that the conversation started about my curiosity as to why anyone would dismiss a game based solely on there being a male protagonist)

[themikefest]

What name do you plan on giving your femquisitor(s)?

 

For me it will be Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyn(ENT). This will be my canon femquis.

 

At this time I'm not sure what name I will use for Elf, Qunari and Dwarf femquisitor

[Trikormadenadon]

 

 

If you want to believe that, sure go on.

I haven't seen anyone here hating on men, more like hating the same overused thing all the time.

I could argue that you are hating on men by dismissing a game just because the main character is male just as much as the game industry is hating on women by making most main characters male.

 

Edited for grammar.

 

EDIT: Don't you think the face palm meme was a bit melodramatic? I have not been rude or condescending during this discussion and as such I feel the meme was rather inappropriate. You could have disagreed with your words rather than stooping to internet glamour.

[Trikormadenadon]

What name do you plan on giving your femquisitor(s)?

 

For me it will be Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyn(ENT). This will be my canon femquis.

 

At this time I'm not sure what name I will use for Elf, Qunari and Dwarf femquisitor

I am not sure what all races I will have for my female inquisitors but I know I will have a female human most likely and I will likely call her Selene.

 

EDIT: I probably will use Vanyayla as my elf name. And Nadia for Dwarf. Not sure about the qunari since I don't really have any desire to play as one.

 

EDIT: Is that your real name, or a pseudonym you like to use or something because I could swear I've seen you state that was the name of  one of your Femsheps too.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

AAA games have a larger public presence, ergo they have more impact in popular culture. The bolded statement is also false at present, and more so every day, as there are more women who get into gaming every year. If AAA games keep catering to their particular idea of the "straight male gamer" is likely simply due to inertia.

 

 

Yeah there are lot of women that play mobile, handheld, and browser games, and that number is growing. I don't know why you're discounting those games.

 

All you have you do is look at the top selling AAA games each year to know that AAA gaming dominated by the male demographic. GTA, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Halo, Battlefield, Gears of War, sports games like Madden, FIFA, NBA2K, etc 

[robertthebard]

What name do you plan on giving your femquisitor(s)?
 
For me it will be Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyn(ENT). This will be my canon femquis.
 
At this time I'm not sure what name I will use for Elf, Qunari and Dwarf femquisitor

I'm not tellin', because it's so good everyone will stealz it...

[Prince of Keys]

What name do you plan on giving your femquisitor(s)?

 

For me it will be Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyn(ENT). This will be my canon femquis.

 

At this time I'm not sure what name I will use for Elf, Qunari and Dwarf femquisitor

 

My Qunari mage is going to be named Clover; if my Dalish Inquisitor ends up being female as well (depends on the LI situation), her name is going to be Fennel. c:

[Gwydden]

All you have you do is look at the top selling AAA games each year to know that AAA gaming dominated by the male demographic. GTA, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Halo, Battlefield, Gears of War, sports games like Madden, FIFA, NBA2K, etc 

You do realize what all those games have in common right? They all have male protagonists, if not an entirely male cast, and some of them, like GTA, are... problematic.

 

I think you're confusing cause with effect here. These games don't cater to men because men buy them. Men buy them because they cater to them.

[Allan Schumacher]

Well, tough luck.

 

Most armies are made up of men.

 

They aren't generic though.  This post isn't particularly productive to the concept of the thread either.  Try to be a bit more insightful within the context of video game representation of women, which this thread is about.

[WildOrchid]

I could argue that you are hating on men by dismissing a game just because the main character is male just as much as the game industry is hating on women by making most main characters male.

 

Do you know the difference of hating someone and being tired of the same thing?

[robertthebard]

You do realize what all those games have in common right? They all have male protagonists, if not an entirely male cast, and some of them, like GTA, are... problematic.
 
I think you're confusing cause with effect here. These games don't cater to men because men buy them. Men buy them because they cater to them.

If A is true, then B is true. Your supposition is logically problematic. If men feel the game is catering to them, then, before it's released, a conscience decision to cater to them must have been made? Is it because they felt like men were their target audience? Where are they pulling that information from?

[Allan Schumacher]

Yeah there are lot of women that play mobile, handheld, and browser games, and that number is growing. I don't know why you're discounting those games.

 

All you have you do is look at the top selling AAA games each year to know that AAA gaming dominated by the male demographic. GTA, Call of Duty, Assassins Creed, Halo, Battlefield, Gears of War, sports games like Madden, FIFA, NBA2K, etc 

 

There's a game developer that answers questions on tumblr and you can find an article that discusses the breakdown here:

http://askagamedev.t...-that-women-buy

 

It shows that a lot of women (roughly 80 million) actively purchase games for the big consoles, and that while it's not as big as men (about half as much), that's still a lot of people.  And it shows that the most common game type tends to be action, followed by shooter.  Casual games make up a small part.

 

It's possibly a large reason why representation calls are becoming more frequent.

[AkiKishi]

You do realize what all those games have in common right? They all have male protagonists, if not an entirely male cast, and some of them, like GTA, are... problematic.

 

I think you're confusing cause with effect here. These games don't cater to men because men buy them. Men buy them because they cater to them.

 

There have been games with female protagonists and they don't sell in anywhere near the same numbers. Tomb Raider is the one exception and that sells just as much to men, although for quite different reasons I'm sure.

[Trikormadenadon]

My Qunari mage is going to be named Clover; if my Dalish Inquisitor ends up being female as well (depends on the LI situation), her name is going to be Fennel. c:

In the event that your inquisitor can only be a city elf rather than Dalish (as it seems to be the case from what I have seen so far anyways) would that change your choice of name for elf?

[Gwydden]

There have been games with female protagonists and they don't sell in anywhere near the same numbers. Tomb Raider is the one exception and that sells just as much to men, although for quite different reasons I'm sure.

Statistical probability. No matter how many games with female protagonists there are, there are a lot more that have male protagonists, which are also more likely to be better funded. The chances of one of the latter selling remarkably well is therefore significantly higher.

[Trikormadenadon]

Do you know the difference of hating someone and being tired of the same thing?

Yes, but we are not talking about hate, we are talking about discrimination. Choosing not to play a game just because the main character is male is not hatred, it is discrimination and that is the very definition of sexism.

 

EDIT: In fact, hatred is not even mentioned anywhere in the definition of sexism....

[AkiKishi]

Statistical probability. No matter how many games with female protagonists there are, there are a lot more that have male protagonists. The chances of one of the latter selling remarkably well is therefore significantly higher.

 

Then at least some should have caught the same lightning in a bottle if not as many. My partner would rather play as Enzio than as Aveline can't say whether she is typical, but there ya go.

 

I want my games to be worlds of their own creation and not mirrors of modern values. Unless they are set in the real world or some alternate version of it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes, but we are not talking about hate, we are talking about discrimination. Choosing not to play a game just because the main character is male is not hatred, it is discrimination and that is the very definition of sexism.

 

No, it's not.

 

This tangent stops right now.

[Gwydden]

Then at least some should have caught the same lightning in a bottle if not as many. My partner would rather play as Enzio than as Aveline can't say whether she is typical, but there ya go.

Yes, I would also prefer to play as the protagonist of three games (which also happens to be the most popular of the series) over a DLC character 

 

Tell me this: How many big developers are willing to take the risk to start a new, expensive franchise starring a female protagonist? Most of them not even dare to step out of the generic action hero.

[Bob from Accounting]

I'm wondering to myself where these numbers for digital sales came from seeing as Steam enjoys the majority of the digital distribution market and Valve never releases sales figures.

[AkiKishi]

Yes, I would also prefer to play as the protagonist of three games (which also happens to be the most popular of the series) over a DLC character 

 

Tell me this: How many big developers are willing to take the risk to start a new, expensive franchise starring a female protagonist? Most of them not even dare to step out of the generic action hero.

 

Avelines not a DLC character, she's the protagonist of Liberation she appeared in AC4 (on PS4). 

 

I can't see why they would take the risk. It's been done and not worked.Heavenly Sword springs to mind as one that was really pushed hard but still never took off. There was supposed to be a movie and talk of a reboot,so you never know.

[Trikormadenadon]

No, it's not.

 

This tangent stops right now.

I am not trying to instigate a fight Allan. I don't know how much of the conversation you have followed but this is a civil discussion between me and others here. No one is flinging insults or anything else. It was born from a sincere curiosity as to why would anyone dismiss a game based solely on there being a male protagonist. I understand if you want it to stop because it is not directly involving female inquisitors but it was born from that through evolution of conversation. I find the thoughts and opinions of other fascinating even if I disagree with them and if you will allow the conversation to continue I swear I will discontinue it if it starts to degrade into anything other than a civil discussion.