9318 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

When I was a kid I was introduced to "geek" interests very early, because my father worked in a comic book store and was an aspiring comic book artist.  From the very beginning, I liked the female characters in comics the most, because I identified with them and saw them as role models.  Men as heroes were a dime a dozen, but women, if they were more than sexy accessories, were few and far between, so they stood out.  I was excited by characters like Storm, Jean Grey, Wonder Woman, etc., because even if I wasn't ever going to be a super hero, I was going to grow up to be woman, and I wanted to be like them, as much as it was possible.

 

I'm still excited and intrigued by female heroes, in comics, tv, books and especially video games.  I'll gladly pick up a game with a male main character...IF there are women being represented in the game who are compelling too.  The Walking Dead Game and The Wolf Among Us are two good examples of this.  When female characters are flat and boring, or nonexistent, I wonder why it's that way, and it bothers me.

 

Half of every human on Earth is a female.  If you can't tell a story that represents that half as interesting and as human as the men in your game, I'd be wasting my money by buying it, because I'm not going to care about it, at best, and at worst, I'll hate it.

[Gwydden]

I can't see why they would take the risk. It's been done and not worked.Heavenly Sword springs to mind as one that was really pushed hard but still never took off. There was supposed to be a movie and talk of a reboot,so you never know.

Again, games with male protagonists fail all the time. One big budget game with a female protagonist doing so is not surprising, not an indicator that the idea is flawed or can't sell.

 

Frankly, it would be easier if games came with gender selection or multiple protagonists of different gender. Do you think just one woman in AC4 instead of the three musketeers and D'Artagnan would have lowered sales?

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm wondering to myself where these numbers for digital sales came from seeing as Steam enjoys the majority of the digital distribution market and Valve never releases sales figures.

 

It helps if you read the link a bit more closely since it's discussing digital sales on consoles.  So Valve/Steam's sales figures are irrelevant.

[AkiKishi]

Again, games with male protagonists fail all the time. One big budget game with a female protagonist doing so is not surprising, not an indicator that the idea is flawed or can't sell.

 

Frankly, it would be easier if games came with gender selection or multiple protagonists of different gender. Do you think just one woman in AC4 instead of the three musketeers and D'Artagnan would have lowered sales?

 

There are more, that was just the one that sprung to mind. Sucker Punch are doing an origin DLC for Fetch to test the waters sometime soon. It's called "First Light".

 

My preference is the way JRPG's sometimes deal with it, you have dual protagonists , the one you don't play as becomes an NPC. That really only works when dialogue is a group thing rather than a character thing. 

 

Only Ubisoft have the info on whether the projected sales increase or potential lost sales was worth the time/money involved in redoing the animations.Unity has some pretty nifty animations and the way MP works is different from previous games.

[Bob from Accounting]

Ah. That it is.

[Gwydden]

Only Ubisoft have the info on whether the projected sales increase or potential lost sales was worth the time/money involved in redoing the animations.Unity has some pretty nifty animations and the way MP works is different from previous games.

I'm guessing the animations left them so dry they couldn't even bother to make the four dudes distinct from each other 

[AkiKishi]

I'm guessing the animations left them so dry they couldn't even bother to make the four dudes distinct from each other 

 

That's what I meant when I said MP works differently. It's like Watch Dogs/Souls where you guest inside someone elses games world. Everybody is Arno.

 

As seen in the gameplay demo, two Assassins are better than one, and four is even better than that. Use the environment to surround your enemies and synchronize your kills in brutal harmony. In addition to the co-op, Unity also adds customization to the game. You’ll be able to pick and choose your gear and apparel, and you’ll be able to level up a set of skills to make Arno the Assassin you want him to be. All of these customizations will carry over into the co-op.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

There's a game developer that answers questions on tumblr and you can find an article that discusses the breakdown here:

http://askagamedev.t...-that-women-buy

 

It shows that a lot of women (roughly 80 million) actively purchase games for the big consoles, and that while it's not as big as men (about half as much), that's still a lot of people.  And it shows that the most common game type tends to be action, followed by shooter.  Casual games make up a small part.

 

It's possibly a large reason why representation calls are becoming more frequent.

 

One of the charts is for digital worldwide, and another is for what games people are buying in US, digital or not. And factoring in the digital sales include DLC, subscriptions, and microtransactions, I don't know how you can put together those two graphs and claim almost 80 million women are purchasing games for consoles.

 

He/She is manipulating numbers to prove a point. 

[Trikormadenadon]

One of the charts is for digital worldwide, and another is for what games people are buying in US, digital or not. And factoring in the digital sales include DLC, subscriptions, and microtransactions, I don't know how you can put together those two graphs and claim almost 80 million women are purchasing games for consoles.

 

He/She is manipulating numbers to prove a point. 

No I think the point that is being made is that women are a large chunk of the gaming market as far as sales go and that is stupid to ignore.

[Felya87]

why no one ever speak of point and click adventures, where the mayority of protagonists was female? I felt little the mastodontical lack of female protagonists in veideogames because I played a lot of them when I was younger. Syberia 1 and 2, Paradise, the longest journey, fantasmagoria, keepsake...and many times the protagonists where two, male and female, and where used both during the adventure, like in broken sword, still life, thunguska, hollywood monsters...

 

or there where games with the chance to play as one of the two protagonists, changing slightly the story, Resident evil 1 and 2, Alone in the Dark 4...it was a trend that was forgotten not so long ago, after all...

 

I'm fine playng with a male character, but I find much more enjoyable playng with a female one. I liked Ezio in AC2, but I loved much more Jade from B G&E. One thing I'm quite disappointed in AC is the fact that the only time they made a female protagonist was for a very minor and almost forgetten game. Of course if no one know the game, or is a bad game, non one is going to buy it.

[Allan Schumacher]

One of the charts is for digital worldwide, and another is for what games people are buying in US, digital or not. And factoring in the digital sales include DLC, subscriptions, and microtransactions, I don't know how you can put together those two graphs and claim almost 80 million women are purchasing games for consoles.

 

He/She is manipulating numbers to prove a point. 

 

You are correct that the graphs don't measure the exact same thing.

 

Here's the thing, however.  Are you supposing that the purchasing habits for people are measurably different for things like DLC, subscriptions, and MTX?

 

80 million women are purchasing content for consoles.  Do you believe that women have significantly different purchasing patterns based on digital or other forms of supplementary one between men and women?  That's the assumption being made, and I don't find it unreasonable.

[robertthebard]

You are correct that the graphs don't measure the exact same thing.
 
Here's the thing, however.  Are you supposing that the purchasing habits for people are measurably different for things like DLC, subscriptions, and MTX?
 
80 million women are purchasing content for consoles.  Do you believe that women have significantly different purchasing patterns based on digital or other forms of supplementary one between men and women?  That's the assumption being made, and I don't find it unreasonable.

I think if we're going to take the numbers at face value, which isn't what's intended by the original publishers of the graphs, just the intent of the guy at the link, that it would mean that 80 million women bought one thing. That's the very literal interpretation of the numbers, and, plainly, isn't the case. It is a large number of people, no matter how it's distributed, however, even if the actual number of women making the purchases was 2/3 or 3/4 of that actual number, which could be closer to the actual numbers. Based purely on that, we have no way to know. It is, however, large enough to not be disregarded, which is probably more to the point of your linking it, and anyone that released any information pertinent to the material in the link.

[Pasquale1234]

I think you are the first woman on this forum I have ever seen say they were not attracted to Thane. I have seen many, many say they are. So my guess, it's just you, not women in general.

Shocking, since women are hive-minded and all like the same things.
 

I'm sorry, but just because there are more male protagonists does not seem like a very good reason to dismiss a game just because it has a male protagonists. Personally, it sounds like sexism to me. "Oh I don't like that game because the main character is male." Yup, sexism.

I'll give you a few more.

For starters, I don't have time to play every single game made, or every single game that I might possibly enjoy. I have to be selective.

In spite of all the fanboy praise, I'll never buy or play a Witcher game. Geralt is not a character I can relate to, and the sex cards (and other things) in the first game turned me off to the series. I don't care how completely awesomesauce other people think it is. I won't spend my money or time on "entertainment" that can easily be interpreted as being hostile to women.

A lot of dudebro games feature scantily clad women. I have seen many images similar to the one of the Qunari a few pages back - with leather straps covering her nipples, and I find images like that painful to look at. Nipples are one of the most sensitive areas on a woman's body, and the very thought of having them chafed by leather straps makes me wince. The fact that large exposed breasts bounce around uncomfortably has already been discussed quite a bit. Things like the Miranda wedgie are also very uncomfortable to look at, for the same sorts of reasons.

Dudebro games focus on presenting the story / world through the dudebro's eyes. Games typically stroke the player's ego, and in the case of dudebro games, it is the male ego that is going to be stroked and supported. They often include misogynist, homophobic, and other types of dudebro material, even if it's really subtle. If I'm going to spend a lot of hours of my life in a game world, I'm going to choose one that is comfortable and welcoming for me.

Games represent a much bigger investment of resources - time and money - than most other forms of media entertainment. I've seen more than enough male heroes rescuing damsels in distress, saving the world, and winning the Princess to last several lifetimes. If I'm going to invest my resources in a game, I'll choose one that celebrates a woman's accomplishments.
 

Yes, but we are not talking about hate, we are talking about discrimination.

I discriminate in every purchase decision and time sink. So do you.

[Pasquale1234]

There have been games with female protagonists and they don't sell in anywhere near the same numbers. Tomb Raider is the one exception and that sells just as much to men, although for quite different reasons I'm sure.

They also don't have anywhere near the advertising budgets as games featuring male PCs.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

You are correct that the graphs don't measure the exact same thing.

 

Here's the thing, however.  Are you supposing that the purchasing habits for people are measurably different for things like DLC, subscriptions, and MTX?

 

80 million women are purchasing content for consoles.  Do you believe that women have significantly different purchasing patterns based on digital or other forms of supplementary one between men and women?  That's the assumption being made, and I don't find it unreasonable.

 

I believe men and women on average have different interests. That digital graph doesn't show what females are buying. Minecraft on consoles as a whole is nearing 35 mil sold and I know that it has a sizable female population. Just Dance/dance central are digital and those games sell in chunks each year.

 

I'm not saying females aren't interested in mainstream AAA games, just no where near male gamers, which is why those type of games aren't catered to them.

[Trikormadenadon]

Shocking, since women are hive-minded and all like the same things.
 

I'll give you a few more.

For starters, I don't have time to play every single game made, or every single game that I might possibly enjoy. I have to be selective.

In spite of all the fanboy praise, I'll never buy or play a Witcher game. Geralt is not a character I can relate to, and the sex cards (and other things) in the first game turned me off to the series. I don't care how completely awesomesauce other people think it is. I won't spend my money or time on "entertainment" that can easily be interpreted as being hostile to women.

A lot of dudebro games feature scantily clad women. I have seen many images similar to the one of the Qunari a few pages back - with leather straps covering her nipples, and I find images like that painful to look at. Nipples are one of the most sensitive areas on a woman's body, and the very thought of having them chafed by leather straps makes me wince. The fact that large exposed breasts bounce around uncomfortably has already been discussed quite a bit. Things like the Miranda wedgie are also very uncomfortable to look at, for the same sorts of reasons.

Dudebro games focus on presenting the story / world through the dudebro's eyes. Games typically stroke the player's ego, and in the case of dudebro games, it is the male ego that is going to be stroked and supported. They often include misogynist, homophobic, and other types of dudebro material, even if it's really subtle. If I'm going to spend a lot of hours of my life in a game world, I'm going to choose one that is comfortable and welcoming for me.

Games represent a much bigger investment of resources - time and money - than most other forms of media entertainment. I've seen more than enough male heroes rescuing damsels in distress, saving the world, and winning the Princess to last several lifetimes. If I'm going to invest my resources in a game, I'll choose one that celebrates a woman's accomplishments.
 

I discriminate in every purchase decision and time sink. So do you.

No need to be hostile. I was simply stating because her statement said she did not understand why others do. I was simply pointing out it was likely just her personal preference. Why do people jump to the conclusion that others are automatically being snarky?

 

If you dismiss a game based on there being a male protagonist you don't know what the content is so using Witcher's content has no bearing on the conversation. However it does tie into...

 

Your second point about not wanting to take the chance because you have limited resources and most male protagonist games cater to the male psyche is a very valid point. Thank you. I never thought of that one before.

 

EDIT: Keep in mind that the conversation was initiated due to the blanket statement someone made about not wanting to play games with male protagonists. It is what sparked my curiosity as to why because I was genuinely curious because I can't relate to that kind of thinking because I have no issues playing a woman in games. I most certainly did not start the conversation in order to spark a fight.

 

I never said i don't but the person who I was conversing with was trying to say she doesn't. I was simply calling her out on it.

 

 

EDIT: Would it not be better to just say 'I take male protagonist games on a case by case basis after I learn more about them' rather than saying 'i don't want to play a game with a male protagonist'?

[Wulfram]

I've seen other figures saying that 38% of xbox users are women, and other similar figures in that sort of region (more than 30% of players of Forza 5, 40% of Xbox live etc), so I don't think it's worth nitpicking details.

 

Of course, you can break it down further by genre and stuff.  But I don't think Dragon Age is a type of game that would turn away women.

 

42% of viewers of Game of Thrones were women, apparently.

[robertthebard]

I've seen other figures saying that 38% of xbox users are women, and other similar figures in that sort of region (more than 30% of players of Forza 5, 40% of Xbox live etc), so I don't think it's worth nitpicking details.
 
Of course, you can break it down further by genre and stuff.  But I don't think Dragon Age is a type of game that would turn away women.
 
42% of viewers of Game of Thrones were women, apparently.

I agree. It is too big a number to sneeze at, no matter how the graphs are broken down.

[Allan Schumacher]

I believe men and women on average have different interests. That digital graph doesn't show what females are buying. Minecraft on consoles as a whole is nearing 35 mil sold and I know that it has a sizable female population. Just Dance/dance central are digital and those games sell in chunks each year.

 

I'm not saying females aren't interested in mainstream AAA games, just no where near male gamers, which is why those type of games aren't catered to them.

 

I think you're rationalizing based on assumptions that may not be correct in order to reinforce your world view.  For instance, roughly half of the content QA playtester team on DAI is women, and they're pretty enthusiastic about the game (and to be working here, and all that stuff that I felt when I first got hired for DAO).

 

Note that terms like "no where near" are ambiguous.  Is 2:1 ratio considered "no where near?"  Because that's what the article mentions as the ratio.

[Char]

I believe men and women on average have different interests. That digital graph doesn't show what females are buying. Minecraft on consoles as a whole is nearing 35 mil sold and I know that it has a sizable female population. Just Dance/dance central are digital and those games sell in chunks each year.

 

I'm not saying females aren't interested in mainstream AAA games, just no where near male gamers, which is why those type of games aren't catered to them.

 

Even if it's true that most females aren't interested in mainstream AAA games, do you not think that this could be caused by the fact that they see a distinct lack of games that come across as even inclusive, let alone catered to female players.

My personal opinion is that AAA developers are losing out by not taking the opportunity to draw more women into the field of AAA games. Since women make up nearly 50% of video game consumers as a whole, it seems silly that so little effort is invested in making big-money titles accessible or desirable to them. This is why I DAI will be one of the only games I purchase this year.

[Ser Pounce A Lot_]

I've seen other figures saying that 38% of xbox users are women, and other similar figures in that sort of region (more than 30% of players of Forza 5, 40% of Xbox live etc), so I don't think it's worth nitpicking details.

 

 

 

How many of those women are just using Xbox for netflix, movies or other streaming sites? Remember up until a few months ago, all apps were behind the Live paywall.

 

I say this because I've been on xbox live past years, and played though thousands of multiplayer games in Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, ME3, etc and rarely do I ever come across any females.

 

I know it's just from my experience, but I think I've had a big enough sample size. If women are as interested in AAA games as people say they are, I would've met a ton more than I have already. 

[Char]

I've seen other figures saying that 38% of xbox users are women, and other similar figures in that sort of region (more than 30% of players of Forza 5, 40% of Xbox live etc), so I don't think it's worth nitpicking details.

 

Of course, you can break it down further by genre and stuff.  But I don't think Dragon Age is a type of game that would turn away women.

 

42% of viewers of Game of Thrones were women, apparently.

 

Dragon Age is a series that is actively inclusive of female players, POC, and LGBTQ individuals. Therefore I would expect a heightened interest in this product when comparable to games without content for these demographics. 

Game of Thrones is one of my favourite TV shows. In some respects I wish I hadn't read all the available books first- I would love to be as shocked as everyone else every time someone dies

[Trikormadenadon]

I think you're rationalizing based on assumptions that may not be correct in order to reinforce your world view.  For instance, roughly half of the content QA playtester team on DAI is women, and they're pretty enthusiastic about the game (and to be working here, and all that stuff that I felt when I first got hired for DAO).

 

Note that terms like "no where near" are ambiguous.  Is 2:1 ratio considered "no where near?"  Because that's what the article mentions as the ratio.

Very true for the most part.

 

His first sentence."I believe men and women on average have different interests" is fairly accurate though. Even if a man and a woman both love video games, it is very likely they get different things out of their gaming experience. Even within the same game.

[Trikormadenadon]

Even if it's true that most females aren't interested in mainstream AAA games, do you not think that this could be caused by the fact that they see a distinct lack of games that come across as even inclusive, let alone catered to female players.

My personal opinion is that AAA developers are losing out by not taking the opportunity to draw more women into the field of AAA games. Since women make up nearly 50% of video game consumers as a whole, it seems silly that so little effort is invested in making big-money titles accessible or desirable to them. This is why I DAI will be one of the only games I purchase this year.

Actually the links Allan Schumacher posted indicate its closer to 1/3 rather than 50% but your point is valid none the less.

[Char]

How many of those women are just using Xbox for netflix, movies or other streaming sites? Remember up until a few months ago, all apps were behind the Live paywall.

 

I say this because I've been on xbox live past years, and played though thousands of multiplayer games in Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, ME3, etc and rarely do I ever come across any females.

 

I know it's just from my experience, but I think I've had a big enough sample size. If women are as interested in AAA games as people say they are, I would've met a ton more than I have already. 

I'm interested in AAA games. I read up on all of them with interest, and usually end up not buying them out of disappointment that yet again they've completely ignored the opportunity to be inclusive. I vote with my feet by purchasing games from developers who have taken the time to give their potential female customers an experience that allows them to be a hero as a woman. When I was little I wanted to grow up to be Xena the warrior princess, Storm, Buffy and Sabrina the teenage witch. I didn't want or expect to grow up to find that 99% of the time if I wanted to be a hero or even just the centre of a story as an escape from my real life, I'd have to be a man.