9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Legenlorn]

So I gues the same could be told of the Tomb Rider franchise. Guess fair is fair.

[XMissWooX]

^ yeah well sorry. The book is about Geralt and the game is based on a book. Furthermore, because it's based on the book, you can't have a women witcher. There was only one woman witcher, but she didn't undergo the whole process of becoming a witcher. (4/10 boys survive the whole thing and only boys are taken to undergo it) You might want to read the books.

But this was my point.
The Witcher games are based on the Witcher books, and so the main character is Geralt. But this does restrict the the game in some ways, because the protagonist has to match up to the books (although oddly enough the player can define the character through story and dialogue choices, just not through character creation).
It would be a bit like DAI having Rhys from the Asunder novel as the protagonist - you could do it, but it restricts both the developers and the players because the character in the game has to match the character from the book. In this case, the choice to be female, elf/dwarf/qunari, warrior/rogue, 'evil', greedy, pro-Templar, etc. are taken away because Rhys isn't (and can't be) any of those things.

[WildOrchid]

So I gues the same could be told of the Tomb Rider franchise. Guess fair is fair.

At least, nobody is trying to hit on Lara Croft. The fact that you used one of the FEW female who is THE PROTAGONIST, says so much about your arguments.

 

My argument was that dudebros like Geralt are overused.

[Legenlorn]

And Geralt is not a protagonist? Sorry but using him as an example of overused dudebros is plain silly. The worst case of an argument used if you'll ever see one.

If you have a problem with a character that is based on a book, and the game is based on that book then sorry. We have nothing to talk about.

[WildOrchid]

Just because he's based on a book, means nothing. He's the typical white straight dudebro that bangs everything he sees.

I've played a lot of games with dudebros and sorry to say, Geralt has nothing that makes him different than the other male characters.

[Nefla]

Sorry I can't quote your actual post Brass_Buckles, it's too long to do so on my phone.

I wasn't saying they should make the game pink and sparkly, I was saying women who like girly fru-fru stuff can potentially like games as well. It isn't a personality type. I like to carry myself a certain way and decorate myself and my things a certain way, but the most important thing is information, does this game have something about it I like? I'm sorry if you felt I was attacking you, I wasn't trying to, and re-reading the post you quoted I don't see anything hostile about it.

[Legenlorn]

Well yeah I guess. The same thing would probably apply to women if they were in most games. Cause that is how the world works. And as for Geralt. Well I get the notion that you only played the 1st part and you haven't read any of the books. Or you just can't see that the guy is something more.

Ohh and btw you can choose if you want to bang everything. It's not like you have to do it. Maybe you see it that way. Still my point stands. Hawke is a much better dudebro example (but then he is dumbed down).

[Legenlorn]

Anyway back to the real topic of the thread. When they do make a femquisitor video how do you think should she look like. I mean there are different types of white males out there but only one type gets marketed. (Most guys that aren't dark haired and bearded don't seem to bother) I'm guessing women will see this differently.

[Ap0crypha]

It doesn't particularly matter to me how she looks: blonde, redhead, freckles, short, dark-skinned, pale, all of it's good. I'd just be happy to see fem!Inquisitor.

 

The one thing I don't want to see is a chainmail bikini, but this being Bioware, I don't think we have to worry about that.

[XMissWooX]

And Geralt is not a protagonist? Sorry but using him as an example of overused dudebros is plain silly. The worst case of an argument used if you'll ever see one.
If you have a problem with a character that is based on a book, and the game is based on that book then sorry. We have nothing to talk about.

  

Well yeah I guess. The same thing would probably apply to women if they were in most games. Cause that is how the world works. And as for Geralt. Well I get the notion that you only played the 1st part and you haven't read any of the books. Or you just can't see that the guy is something more.
Ohh and btw you can choose if you want to bang everything. It's not like you have to do it. Maybe you see it that way. Still my point stands. Hawke is a much better dudebro example (but then he is dumbed down).

I'm not certain if this was directed at me, but I just wanted to clarify: the only point I was making was that I don't believe people want Geralt to be a female (as 9TailsFox said), rather they want to play as a fully customisable character within the Witcher universe (who could potentially be female).
I understand and accept that the games are based on the books and use the same protagonist, I just personally would feel more compelled to play the game if I could define them myself, since that's one of the things that appeals to me most in a game.

And to put myself back on topic, I don't really mind how the female Inquisitor looks. They've used human a lot, so a non-human race could be interesting. And if they really felt like pushing the boat out they could use a non-white character. As long as she's a believable badass I'll be content.

[Lady Nuggins]

One day, I want to see Bioware be brave enough to make the female version of the protagonist the default.  Make her the one on the cover, on all the marketing materials, the one that the game defaults to if you do not choose to customize.  But if that is not an option, then representation of both genders would make me happy.  Or at least showing the female version once in a while. 

 

You know what's insulting?  When not only does the cover of the game you're playing make no mention of the female version, but when you flip open the official walkthrough, and not a single picture in the entire 272-page guide depicts the female version.  I could understand making male Hawke the main focus, but Lady Hawke wasn't even a footnote in the official material.

 

Purely from a marketing standpoint, I see the value of putting a face to the game.  Seeing Hawke or Shepard immediately evokes the style and setting of the game, much more than an inanimate object or a stylized image like the blood dragon does.  You can see the style of the armor that he wears, how he stands, how he moves and fights in trailers, what kinds of weapons he uses.  It conveys much more information about the game.  More than that, it connects with the viewer in a way that an unfamiliar object would not.  An empty setting or symbol or object only works if it already holds meaning for the viewer. And when that same face appears across different promo material—in trailers, on posters, on the cover—then people familiarize themselves with that iconic character. 

 

I think there is a risk of going too far with the emphasis on choice.  Being able to create a fully customizable character isn’t really that unique.  Any ordinary MMO offers that.  What I think does make Bioware games unique is that those characters are not simply empty avatars.  They have voice.  They have personality.  They interact with the characters around them in a way that feels as fully fleshed out.  If I picked up a cover that showed me 8 potential versions of a character, or talked only about the customization options, I would assume that I’m being offered a voiceless avatar.  So in that sense, I do still think the benefits of a "default" look outweigh the drawbacks.

 

So I guess it becomes a question of balance.  Showing just two versions of the Inquisitor—one male and one female—might clearly illustrate the matter of choice while also giving a face to the game.  Especially if the two versions are as similar as default Male Hawke and Lady Hawke were, with the iconic blood smear.

[Legenlorn]

@XMissWooX

I get the idea with the character in the witcher universe. A pitty they don't seem to be thinking about that but maybe in the future

 

And they should throw in both gender qunari inquisitors. Just my thought.

[Legenlorn]

You know what's insulting?  When not only does the cover of the game you're playing make no mention of the female version, but when you flip open the official walkthrough, and not a single picture in the entire 272-page guide depicts the female version.  I could understand making male Hawke the main focus, but Lady Hawke wasn't even a footnote in the official material.

Hmm why do you think that is? Might it be because the people who make the walkthrough are mostly male and play their first game with a male char? Or the higher ups simply see no difference in the char that is shown? Or something completely different?

[Lady Nuggins]

Hmm why do you think that is? Might it be because the people who make the walkthrough are mostly male and play their first game with a male char? Or the higher ups simply see no difference in the char that is shown? Or something completely different?

 

Maybe Bioware only provided them with images of male Hawke (as I am not just talking about screen shots, but high def full-page spreads).  Maybe lady Hawke was not viewed as important.  I can only guess at their reasoning.

 

I view official strategy guides as a functional piece of merchandise.  You buy it as much to have a book of official game art as for the information it contains.  The fact that lady Hawke was not considered worth including says that she is not considered an "official" part of the game.

[Monica21]

Maybe Bioware only provided them with images of male Hawke (as I am not just talking about screen shots, but high def full-page spreads).  Maybe lady Hawke was not viewed as important.  I can only guess at their reasoning.

 

I view official strategy guides as a functional piece of merchandise.  You buy it as much to have a book of official game art as for the information it contains.  The fact that lady Hawke was not considered worth including says that she is not considered an "official" part of the game.

 

I think that's quite a leap and the devs would disagree with you. And if that's what you choose to be insulted by then fine, but there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak, then whether a female version of the protagonist gets her picture in a game guide.

[Lady Nuggins]

I think that's quite a leap and the devs would disagree with you. And if that's what you choose to be insulted by then fine, but there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak, then whether a female version of the protagonist gets her picture in a game guide.

 

This is not really about the devs, though.  This is about the marketing materials.  I know how the writers and artists feel about inclusion of women, but I also know that they don't necessarily have any control over how the marketing team chooses to represent the game. 

 

I am not really "choosing" to be offended, here.  When every single promotional image is of the male version of the protagonist, not even acknowledging that female is an option, then I cannot help but feel ignored by a company that places so much emphasis on inclusion.  If it were just the game guide, that would not be a big deal.  The game guide is an example of the wider lack of any female representation in the promotional material.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I have the DA2 guide book & it does have femhawke pictures although is only around 3 pic's & 1 of them is of her in her underwear

[Ispan]

I have the DA2 guide book & it does have femhawke pictures although is only around 3 pic's & 1 of them is of her in her underwear

 

lol, I had forgotten about the undies shot of femhawke so I pulled out my guide to look.  I'm glad the only time an actual in-game shot of femHawke was appropriate was to show off her underwear.

 

"If you decide to remove your character's armor as well, a fetching set of underwear protects their modesty-- but little else, as there is no default armor.  And yes, the effect persists for engine cut scenes."

 

Sorry if the picture doesn't work, I'm bad at forums.

 

Edit:  Also, I imagine Aveline, Bethany and Leandra are all wondering why Hawke is running around in gloves and panties.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

lol, I had forgotten about the undies shot of femhawke so I pulled out my guide to look.  I'm glad the only time an actual in-game shot of femHawke was appropriate was to show off her underwear.
 

"If you decide to remove your character's armor as well, a fetching set of underwear protects their modesty-- but little else, as there is no default armor.  And yes, the effect persists for engine cut scenes."
 
Sorry if the picture doesn't work, I'm bad at forums.
 
Edit:  Also, I imagine Aveline, Bethany and Leandra are all wondering why Hawke is running around in gloves and panties.

Is sad that femhawke gets so few pic's in the guide book while malehawke gets so many, i also noticed that cavers info box calls hawke his brother too.

[WildOrchid]

^Omfg, LOL.

This is even more hilarious and sad at the same time, if one of the few pics of hers had her with her underwear. Sigh. I don't get it how hard it would be to add some more pics of hers.

 

 

Just proves so many things people have said in this thread.

[Ispan]

Is sad that femhawke gets so few pic's in the guide book while malehawke gets so many, i also noticed that cavers info box calls hawke his brother too.

 

Eww I see that now.   How hard would it be to use the word "sibling" instead?

[Stelae]

^ yeah well sorry. The book is about Geralt and the game is based on a book. Furthermore, because it's based on the book, you can't have a women witcher. There was only one woman witcher, but she didn't undergo the whole process of becoming a witcher. (4/10 boys survive the whole thing and only boys are taken to undergo it) You might want to read the books.

 

And sorry but your opinion is that Geralt is not so fun to play. Others think differently. And the cards were in the first part. Sorry you didn't like it, but not everyone will like the same things.

Unless the books are written in first-person from Geralt's point of view, reading them would be very different from playing him in a game.  And even in first-person, reading about an unsympathetic protagonist is very different from playing one.  I can read a book and think "what a tool this guy is."  When it's a first-person perspective game, it becomes "what a tool I'm being forced to be." 

 

Yes, different people like different things.  From a marketing point of view, which is what this thread is about, that's the key. 

 

You can, as a games designer, make and market the same old adolescent male power fantasies.  And you have to compete with all the other hundreds of games being marketed to that niche, in an overcrowded marketplace.  Or, you can look at the twin facts that there are more women over 35 than men under 18 who game, and that the 18-24 year old demographic is both overcatered-to and not terribly rich, whereas older people have more discretionary income and are gagging for more nuanced content.  Seriously; this stuff is our jam.  We are big spenders, because we can be.  We buy the all DLC and tie-ins, and our word-of-mouth means we attract even more people just like us to gaming.  We are good for the industry, with our money and our enthusiasm. 

 

And you (as a marketer) can say "our game, while it uses the engine and combat rules of Shooty-McStabmaster-14, has the added bonus of allowing you to create an interesting and sympathetic character of your choosing in a world changing story."  And bam!  You might alienate a few kids who are intimidated by plot or think girls have cooties, or you might not, because their mums buy most of their games anyhow, but you certainly raise the interest of a whole new market sector.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Eww I see that now.   How hard would it be to use the word "sibling" instead?

Ikr, it sucks that male hawke is treated like the canon version in the guidebook while femhawke gets ignored apart from 2 close up pic's & a underwear screenshot.

[Stelae]

And Geralt is not a protagonist? Sorry but using him as an example of overused dudebros is plain silly. The worst case of an argument used if you'll ever see one.

If you have a problem with a character that is based on a book, and the game is based on that book then sorry. We have nothing to talk about.

Ever played Lord of the Rings online?  It might surprise you to know that even though it's based on a book with overwhelmingly male characters, you don't actually have to play Frodo.  Or Aragorn.  Or Legolas.  Or Eowyn, for that matter. How about SWTOR?  You can be a Jedi, but not a Skywalker OR a Kenobi.  Or an Imperial who isn't a moustache-twirling villain.  Plenty of AAA material is based on books and movies without shoehorning you into playing a particular character.  If the Witcher is set in a good, well-built world,and by all accounts it is, then there are cool stories that can be told that don't require you to be Geralt, and the experience might well be richer and more compelling for it. 

 

Geralt is a safe, oft-repeated set of cliches made to cater to a sector of the market that is supersaturated.  He'll alienate as many people as he satisfies (this is, of course, a problem with any fixed protagonist; I'm sure there are people out there who have issues with Lara Croft, or Jade, or whoever).  All the developers have to do is say "due to exciting new advances in Witcher creating technology, we now know how to make women Witchers too" -- it can still be risky, like becoming a Warden was -- and lo and behold, a whole new set of perspectives on the world open up.  You can still be Geralt if you like, but you aren't bound to be.

[Banxey]

lol, I had forgotten about the undies shot of femhawke so I pulled out my guide to look.  I'm glad the only time an actual in-game shot of femHawke was appropriate was to show off her underwear.
 

"If you decide to remove your character's armor as well, a fetching set of underwear protects their modesty-- but little else, as there is no default armor.  And yes, the effect persists for engine cut scenes."
 
Sorry if the picture doesn't work, I'm bad at forums.
 
Edit:  Also, I imagine Aveline, Bethany and Leandra are all wondering why Hawke is running around in gloves and panties.

To be honest I laugh a lot of these sorts of things off, and it may just be that I slept badly, but that really irks me. I have considered buying game guides before, so I guess it's good to know they're not interested in my money.