9318 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRacer]

I didn't know Montreal was working on DAI as well. I was under the impression that Montreal was focused on the next Mass Effect game.

 

And folks can add me to the list of who the American VA will be.

 

From what I've seen on Twitter, sounded like some of the Montreal editors were assisting the Edmonton writing team with editing and such. I may have mis-read, but that seems like something that could be done cross-studio relatively easily. Montreal's main focus is the new Mass Effect, though.

 

Cross-studio work isn't uncommon. Montreal actually created the ME3 MP and then Edmonton maintained it and updated/patched it (and I think made the MP DLCs). Montreal also did some (or maybe all) of the ME3 SP DLCs (Omega, etc), while the Edmonton studio actually did the bulk of the vanilla portion of ME3. From what I understand, at least.

 

Back to Lady Inquisitor, I wouldn't mind seeing how the female elf options look. I like that they've gone to a sort of middle ground between DAO and DA2 elves.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I want to hear the American VA as well. Right now Alix's is what I would go with, and plan on probably creating her in there. Wasnt going to till I saw that video that was around.

 

Elf/human/dwarf female would be good to see next, though there was a "generic gender" human already. So an elf or a dwarf (voting dwarf) would be awesome to see.

 

Playing with Alix's voice better unlock a special 'spit take' option, like a Mass Effect interupt. For every conversation. So my inquisitor can walk around drinking a lot and being constantly incredulous about everything people tell her.

 

I know enough of the LI's, I've seen femQunari inquisitor...this is literally all I want.

[HuldraDancer]

Back to Lady Inquisitor, I wouldn't mind seeing how the female elf options look. I like that they've gone to a sort of middle ground between DAO and DA2 elves.

 

I want to see how all the races look now with the new engine especially my lady dwarves who were no where to be found in DA2.  As far as the elves go if Sera is any indicator of what they look like I think they're looking good though I would like the option to change the size of their ears a little, I might be in the minority but I really liked Valora's ears since they were more at an angle and didn't just look like a short person sharpened their own ears.

[Mes]

Ooh yes I would love to have ear length options! I'd love to make an elf Quizzy like my avatar. 

 

I'd love to see a trailer for some unassuming female dwarf, and then at the end have it revealed that she's the protagonist of the game.  I think it'd be cool to play up the surprise factor.

[Blue Gloves]

 

 

That said, they do need to hear the disappointments as well as the joys. My work review includes both, so should theirs.    If they only hear the good and how wonderful they are (which generally speaking they are)  they won't even think about fixing something because they won't know how it affected their fan(s). Whether it's big boobs and sexy armor and how unpractical it is or having her walk exactly like the male character, it's all important.  

 

 

Sure, it's good to let BW know both what we do enjoy, and what we don't, but let's keep in mind that they already hear the bad, and they hear it in an overwhelming abundance.  I mean, just take a look at Allan's or DG's twitter over the last few days; they get called names, verbally spat on, and told their games are **** all the time.  Heck, even take a look at the  threads on the forum here- there are what? 5, maybe 6 altogether saying "Hey, thanks!  We love you guys!" and literally thousands telling them what they "did wrong."  We won't even mention the insane amount of hate and vitriol that gets directed at devs like poor Jennifer Heppler! (I didn't even lurk on these forums for almost a year, I was so sickened by that whole ugly affair!)

 

They are artists, and therefor they signed up for a certain amount of criticism, and certainly anyone should get called on aspects of life that contribute to exclusivity and negative stereotyping (I have certainly not been silent about my opinions of Ashley Williams' "re-branding") but they are also human beings, working insanely hard to try and deliver a finished piece that manages to straddle the line between "work of art" and "marketable product" and have it still resemble the baby they love and spent so much time creating and raising. I think a little unfiltered praise here and there is deserved by pretty much everyone in the world, and I think its especially important for fans to occasionally put their money (or pride) where their mouths are, pony up, and say "Thanks, man.  You worked hard, and you really listened to the things I had to say.  I appreciate you, and I really like the thing you made, which I now get to enjoy."  Not every instance of praise or gratitude needs to be immediately tempered by an assessment of the negative aspects of a performance. Sometimes, it's okay (and probably necessary) to just say "Thanks.  You did a good job."

[Blue Gloves]

Playing with Alix's voice better unlock a special 'spit take' option, like a Mass Effect interupt. For every conversation. So my inquisitor can walk around drinking a lot and being constantly incredulous about everything people tell her.

 

Spit take option seconded!  DO WANT!

 

Seriously though, I'd really like to see a lady dwarf, but this solely because I am insanely biased.  I the DA dwarves so much!    I mostly just can't wait to be a spunky, scruffy Cadash, and fell all enemies of the Inquisition with ribald humor and wicked-fast daggers!

[Allan Schumacher]

No one is suggesting no one can ever be critical toward us.  Sometimes people didn't like things about our games, and it's useful to let us know that.

 

When talking about various issues, however, the primary reason why I (emphasis, me) like to see a variety of perspectives is that if I'm only told how much the effort I made was wrong, it makes me gunshy.  Not in a spiteful "well fine I won't do it at all any more" but more in a "I believe I cannot do this justice without just making more people angry, and I don't want to do that."  I don't like facilitating hostility.  It doesn't even have to be hostility towards me.  I am gunshy towards romances because they cause a lot of fighting because one person is given the character they want, while another is denied and that that just isn't fair, and people get very angry with each other over stuff like this.  So maybe it'd be better to take that content and apply it in a general, non-romance way to flesh out characters?  Though I'm sure people would definitely not like that either   There is a degree of realizing that not everyone is going to be happy with a decision that we make.

 

 

I understand that this is a very privileged perspective when it comes to social issues and effort towards gaming.  I try very hard to not let someone's tone dictate whether or not I should continue reading the critique, because sometimes there's still very excellent points that get made up.  But seeing something like this thread's response does serve as as a point of "the direction we're going in isn't the wrong one."  We may need course corrections.  Or maybe we just veered way off into a jungle and need to back up.  But if I only ever see that I'm doing it wrong, I get confused as to which direction I should be going in (especially since there's so much different directions that we could be going in). 

 

Hearing that we have backers for the current direction lends a degree of psychological validation.  I am still a human being, so despite being a professional I'm not immune to the hangups that human beings make.  Sometimes I recognize it as an avenue for growth (I used to hate it when people called me lazy - but I now better understand what they mean when they say it) for myself.  Other times I have to remember to do things for my own mental health.  Being told I should have been aborted as a fetus so that competent QA would have worked on DAO is firmly in the "not productive in any sense of the matter."  I get angry and defensive, and as such disengage for my own well being.

 

 

It's also problematic because negative things tend to go viral (everyone loves juicy gossip) more effectively than positive things.  So sometimes I actively seek out positive things.  In fact, I started posting on the forum to FIND more positive things since most frequent things I would see was negative towards BioWare (and BioWare fans).  I still post regularly, so you're free to draw your own conclusions as to whether or not I found my search successful.

[aTigerslunch]

Your loved Allan, by many in this thread.   Your cool bro. And yes, I read where that was and shook my head at them, Gaider took an interesting route with one of his negatives which I did favorite. I'm glad your here.

[Mes]

I think at the end of the day, positive reinforcement (and constructive criticism) is always more effective than negative. It's simple, and something to think about next time someone wants to bully another person on the internet over a video game.

[DragonRacer]

I think at the end of the day, positive reinforcement (and constructive criticism) is always more effective than negative. It's simple, and something to think about next time someone wants to bully another person on the internet over a video game.

 

The sad part about praise/criticism is the paradox that seems to exist in us:

 

People usually respond better to praise or being told "you're heading the right way". Or, at the very least of decency, being told that "maybe it's not a good direction, but hey, here's a better one that might work". As you said, constructive criticism.

 

But people seem to find it easier to give negative instead of positive. "I don't like this and you're bad and should feel bad". You see it every day with customer service. I could NEVER do that sort of job, I'd be left a weeping puddle of humanity every night. I see people talk down to folks like that or berate them or take all of their own personal anger and hatred out on the service rep on the phone or the person taking your order at McDonald's. As if it is so difficult to stop, take a breath, and be nice.

 

That's just it, though. It's so easy to be mean and negative. I am unhappy and therefore I will take it out on the world mentality. We hurt and we then seek to make others hurt because we've stopped caring about them and started only caring about how we personally hurt. But if we could just all pause for a moment, shift our thought paradigm around, and realize that person we are abusing is just a person like we are, and choose to instead be positive or, at least, decent... things in general would be a whole lot better.

 

It makes me sad when the forum is considered a toxic environment, but I can understand why. People want to throw fits about a video game, when it would make more sense to politely point out what things they didn't like and make suggestions for improvement.

 

It could be so simple, really, to treat each other decently. But it seems like that is sometimes the hardest thing to do. Because it involves re-shifting your thought process from being self-centered (note: self-centered does not mean selfish, merely that we are inwardly focused on ourselves first and others second) to viewing yourself as part of a bigger whole, and wouldn't you like to help that whole be better and happier rather than be destructive towards it?

[Allan Schumacher]

I think at the end of the day, positive reinforcement (and constructive criticism) is always more effective than negative. It's simple, and something to think about next time someone wants to bully another person on the internet over a video game.

 

I actually will make a counterargument to this.  Sometimes being outraged is not only the appropriate response, but probably the most effective.  If we did something grotesquely wrong that was uniformly considered grossly inappropriate, sometimes it's going to make people upset.

Which is why I try to still read stuff even if it seems harsh.  A lot of people being angry is often a good way to draw attention to serious issues.  If we came along and revealed a FemQuisitor and she was something out of DOA Beach Volleyball, I'd expect outrage and serious amounts of frustration and even anger.

 

 

By the same token that feeling that I'm a professional somehow makes me immune to being human, I have to also understand that the fans are human too and also not immune to being emotional in response to decisions we make or things that they see.  It's all about understanding the perspective.

[Blue Gloves]

I actually will make a counterargument to this.  Sometimes being outraged is not only the appropriate response, but probably the most effective.  If we did something grotesquely wrong that was uniformly considered grossly inappropriate, sometimes it's going to make people upset.

Which is why I try to still read stuff even if it seems harsh.  A lot of people being angry is often a good way to draw attention to serious issues.  If we came along and revealed a FemQuisitor and she was something out of DOA Beach Volleyball, I'd expect outrage and serious amounts of frustration and even anger.

 

 

I would agree with this.  Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, you have to scream to be heard.  After all, Andraste didn't write the Imperium a strongly worded letter .  Harsh criticism is sometimes warranted, and can be the most effective way to communicate a very deep sense of dissatisfaction and wrongness(just ask any of my old Drill Sergeants!)  I feel pretty confident that this thread would have exploded had the female qunari indeed been battle-bikini clad and restatured so that she was no taller/broader than the human males.  In such a case, maybe a bit of outrage would've been warranted.

 

On the flip side of the coin, however, we should all probably be human enough to step up and recognize when a person or group of persons has A- had so much **** piled on them that a bit of praise won't go amiss, and B- actively worked on your behalf to better a situation and address your grievances and therefor common decency dictates that a big, no provisos attached "Thank you!" is on order.

[DragonRacer]

I would agree with this.  Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, you have to scream to be heard.  After all, Andraste didn't write the Imperium a strongly worded letter .  Harsh criticism is sometimes warranted, and can be the most effective way to communicate a very deep sense of dissatisfaction and wrongness(just ask any of my old Drill Sergeants!)  I feel pretty confident that this thread would have exploded had the female qunari indeed been battle-bikini clad and restatured so that she was no taller/broader than the human males.  In such a case, maybe a bit of outrage would've been warranted.

 

On the flip side of the coin, however, we should all probably be human enough to step up and recognize when a person or group of persons has A- had so much **** piled on them that a bit of praise won't go amiss, and B- actively worked on your behalf to better a situation and address your grievances and therefor common decency dictates that a big, no provisos attached "Thank you!" is on order.

 

Very much love and agree with the last paragraph.

 

Also, I'm glad you brought up the height of the female Qunari! That is something that I love love LOVE. In real life, I'm pretty darn tall. I grew incredibly quickly in school and reached my adult height of 5 foot 9 inches by the 5th grade. So, I spent a loooooot of time basically towering over my peers, male and female alike. And while some of them caught up to me in height and some of the guys surpassed me, I still find myself generally as tall as most men I encounter (or not very far off to be very noticeable). Or taller, in some cases - great case in point, my husband is actually about 3-4 inches shorter than me.

 

But that's nothing I usually see represented in video games. If I want to play a female character, I have to settle for knowing I'll always be shorter than the male companions and NPCs. Unless they're dwarfs, of course, which actually is a bit of Varric's appeal to me... on the smallest level, DA2's relationship with him and FemHawke reminded me a bit of my husband's courting days. So very, very sweet and cute. 

 

But seeing the female Qunari tower over everyone... YES! I love that.

 

Honestly, this is the first time I have been torn about what character to play first. In DAO, I gravitated towards the elves initially because I like to play something a little different (and since I'm human, that's always a bit of a "meh" choice to me). And I initially thought I'd roll a female Dalish Inquisitor rogue for my first playthrough (both DAO and DA2, my first playthrough was rogue).

 

But now, I'm just not sure. I sort of equally want to try a dwarf warrior, elf mage, human warrior, and Qunari mage first. I have some hard decisions to make when I fire up my PS4 first thing in the morning October 7.

[Allan Schumacher]

In any case, lets deviate from this particular tangent.

[aTigerslunch]

I know my first will be, already stated. The question of who is next is what I have no idea on yet, may go dwarf or elf. Actually, if Varric is an LI for female dwarves, I'd totally roll the dwarf female second just to see that one.   In that case, I could have Alix as that appearance but dwarven with the VA.

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm pretty sure this came up earlier but I don't remember the details and big thread is big...

 

How do we reconcile competing desires for how a character is represented in game, particularly physically.  Some are happy that the woman Qunari is not really sexualized (I think that's pretty sweet too).  Perhaps it's my ignorance speaking, but part of me think there's a fine line between making something attractive, and making them unreasonably sexualized.  Especially if we're working within the confines of fixed body types (lets stick within this constraint please, since it's the current reality for Dragon Age haha).

 

That said, I know there are some that are still hoping the characters are distinctly feminine and that some of these people are still women gamers

[DragonRacer]

I'm pretty sure this came up earlier but I don't remember the details and big thread is big...

 

How do we reconcile competing desires for how a character is represented in game, particularly physically.  Some are happy that the woman Qunari is not really sexualized (I think that's pretty sweet too).  Perhaps it's my ignorance speaking, but part of me think there's a fine line between making something attractive, and making them unreasonably sexualized.  Especially if we're working within the confines of fixed body types (lets stick within this constraint please, since it's the current reality for Dragon Age haha).

 

That said, I know there are some that are still hoping the characters are distinctly feminine and that some of these people are still women gamers

 

You know... that's a very good question.

 

And a complicated one, I think. Because it appears that guys are a bit "easier" to program for.

Whereas female gamers seem split between those who want some sexuality/femininity shown and those who don't.

 

Hmmm. I shall ponder a while and get back with my own thoughts on this...

[Allan Schumacher]

And a complicated one, I think. Because it appears that guys are a bit "easier" to program for.

 
I think guys have an advantage of already having a wide range of body types in games.  There's also the idea that covered doesn't convey too much information about one's build.
 
I do think there's an overabundance of scruffy white dude (if you look at me right now, though, I am totally scruffy white dude haha) among player characters, so I think there's still issues for men.

[Blue Gloves]

That is a difficult topic to address since the reality is that we don't have a really good base to start from.  I think that, for me, showcasing a female protagonist with a classically beautiful or "cute" face who is considered conventionally attractive is fine- I mean, there's a reason that most media stars are attractive, we are a visual species, and appreciating beauty is normal.  What bothers me is the disparity that often crops up in the clothing department. I, personally, don't take issue with "pretty" females in games.  However, I find it demeaning when the men in a game are "realistically" (yes, its fantasy, and therefor not as realistic as actual armor no matter what) clothed, armored, or covered up, but the women manage to get through combat in the much reviled battle bikini, with makeup intact, heels clicking, flowing hair flying, and lips pouting.  At that point, it becomes hard to believe that the women are there to be heroes and not just pretty objects to stare at while a game is being played.

 

I think this article is a good read- though I don't agree with all of it and am skeptical about a few of the sources used, I think it's salient to the discussion.

[aTigerslunch]

Feminity as in having an outfit sexualized a bit?  Cause my cousin is a female, I think of her as feminine but she is far from being girly girl. Not sure how to answer this question honestly. And since I hadn't shaved in a few days, I am scruffy right now.

 

Maybe to compensate one person over another or visa versa would be a model slider. Saints Row had sliders so can make a female "less female" looking or as the normal sexualized appearance. This could help the women that want to be normal, to be, or the one that wants sexy to be that. Its one of the ways I see. Outfits/armor would have to gain a variety of looks as well.

 

And definitely I can see myself as easy to program for in the case of the male character.

[Allan Schumacher]

Feminity as in having an outfit sexualized a bit?  Cause my cousin is a female, I think of her as feminine but she is far from being girly girl. Not sure how to answer this question honestly. And since I hadn't shaved in a few days, I am scruffy right now.

 

The concept of being a "lady" for my lack of knowing a better term.  But just in terms of body types.  Is it bad if, say, the elves/humans/dwarves have a body type that is more typically regarded as "traditionally" attractive in response to the Qunari woman's being less so?  Should we be modest across the board?  Allow for variations between the races?

[DragonRacer]

 
I think guys have an advantage of already having a wide range of body types in games.  There's also the idea that covered doesn't convey too much information about one's build.
 
I do think there's an overabundance of scruffy white dude (if you look at me right now, though, I am totally scruffy white dude haha) among player characters, so I think there's still issues for men.

 

I know there's a bit of a bias against the "scruffy white dude" stereotype in this thread, but I don't mind them. I like scruffy white dudes. Some of my best friends are scruffy white dues. A scruffy white dude sired me. And I married a scruffy white dude, after all.

 

But yes, I do get the point you're making and it's a good point. I think I have a concept that all/most men like the "muscular, macho man" build and because all/most men aspire to that, to be the Strong Protector/Provider archetype... but, in reality, I'm betting I'm being horrifically stereotypical and that this isn't the case at all.

 

Well, I definitely can't speak for all women and I definitely can't speak for those more in tune with or who like to be "girly". I am an eternal tomboy in every possible way. I've always been that way and I never "outgrew" it. As a child, my mother would try to do cutesy things to my hair with accessories, and I would literally rip them out (hair and all) moments later. Despise dresses and skirts. Never wanted to play with dolls, much preferred my plastic dinosaurs and cars and fighter planes. Whenever I'd play pretend, I never wanted to be a princess or a ballerina or anything of that nature - I truly, honestly always wanted to be (and still, honestly, actually WANT to be) the stereotypical "knight in shining armor". I wanted to be in full plate armor with a sword and shield astride a noble steed and riding forth into battle to save the terrified village from the horrible monster/evil wizard/insert-scary-thing-here.

 

So, with all that in mind, can anyone here honestly see a mentality of my type wanting to strut down a catwalk? Ever? Even remotely/a little bit?

 

If you ask me what my ideal female character is, I think it's easiest described by pointing to Aveline. I LOVE her. I related to her SO MUCH on so many levels. To be honest, Aveline was me for most of my life. I think of myself as a little more laid back now on some subjects than she is, a bit less "stick up the butt" as some might describe. But I adored how her character was handled, from demeanor to looks to walk to armor. THAT'S how I want my PC to be. A strong woman in armor that doesn't scream "look, I have boobies" and who walks with a determined purpose of saving the world first, not worried about necessarily swaying those hips to attract a mate.

 

That's what I want. But I am at one extreme. I fully acknowledge that many women WANT some femininity to their characters. They don't necessarily want to be tomboys. And that should be respected, too.

 

I remember being just fine with the female PCs in DAO. They seemed to walk and run fine to me. I do know Hawke makes me laugh a little. There is such an exaggerated sashay in that walk... my God, I would have to concentrate so hard and make a conscious effort to ever walk like that, and I would feel absolutely ridiculous doing so because that is just SO not me. At all. Even if you squint really hard and turn your head sideways. Just nope nope nope. I felt very connected to all of my Wardens, probably because they were more neutral (and also because their origins were so personalized). Hawke... I like Hawke and I like DA2. But Hawke never felt like "mine". Hawke was someone I was navigating. But my Wardens, they were MINE. All of them. I felt more control over them, even though they probably all had the same animations. Hawke was somebody else... someone I was okay with and maybe we'd be friends... but Hawke never connected me to the characters and world like my Wardens did. And a lot of it I think is because Hawke's mannerisms were so far swung to the feminine side that my tomboy self felt a serious disconnect.

 

My two cents, for what they are worth.

[themikefest]

Found this on AWR's twitter account

 

Alix Wilton Regan@AlixWiltonRegan · 1h

“@UberFacts: Women who play video games tend to have more sex and be happier with their relationships than those who don’t.” IS THIS TRUE?!?

[Blue Gloves]

Ooooooh!  I just thought of a perfect example to illustrate my own feelings on the subject!

 

I am helplessly addicted to the little flash game Heroes of Dragon Age, but I have to be honest, Isabela's original redesign and the way she posed on the opening screen and "cover art"- if you will- was mildly offensive to me.  Her hip and bust size were not only increased (or seemingly so) from her character in DA2, the way she was posed with her arm above her head, her chest thrust out, and her butt cocked back just screamed "I could never actually fight this way!  I am obviously only here to be stared at!"

 

However, with the latest update, Morrigan is the new headliner, and I think she was done perfectly.  She's still scantily clad in her classic Morrigan garb, but posed in a manner that clearly says she's about to whoop someone's ass with a massive case of Waking Nightmare, and best of all she's clearly wearing a breast band to keep those puppies from popping out during a fight.  In my opinion- she's a great example of still being sexy without being sexualized.

[Blue Gloves]

The concept of being a "lady" for my lack of knowing a better term.  But just in terms of body types.  Is it bad if, say, the elves/humans/dwarves have a body type that is more typically regarded as "traditionally" attractive in response to the Qunari woman's being less so?  Should we be modest across the board?  Allow for variations between the races?

 

I can't really remember what I thought of the female elves and humans and their body models in DAO- I think I was cool with them, but I do remember LOVING the female dwarf body model.  I thought "Wow- she's feminine, but muscled, and curvy... if only her arms were less gorilla-y .  So I think that having your body models differ between races is kinda cool, ie the Qunari is a bit more buff/ less curvy or "traditional" or whatever term we're using, the dwarves are well muscled but curvy, the elves are slender hipped and small breasted etc.  A body slider would be neat, but my own personal preference would be that resources not be taken from, say, crafting a unique appearance for a "canon" inquisitor or companion in order to add such a thing.