9318 réponses à ce sujet

[DragonRacer]

Additionally, I appreciate that women have the option of applying makeup or not applying any. I have seen some very nicely done Shepards, Wardens, and Hawkes.

 

But I've always appreciated that I could just sliiiiide that bar over to nothing/natural. Because, again, my tomboy self despises makeup. I think that may be equal parts how I naturally am combined with the fact that my mother insisted I wear makeup because "it makes you even prettier". I hated that. It gave me the message that, without makeup, I was somehow a lesser woman, that I was not as attractive as I could be if I only gave in and made myself a girly girl. And I thought I was just fine as myself. And I live in Florida, it is crazy stupid hot most of the year. For someone who is active and likes to be outside, makeup is 100% pointless because you sweat it right back off again.

 

And yet, that's drilled into me so much that I still apply a small bit of makeup for work everyday. Both from how she raised me and because that's what's expected of women in the professional world. But Lord knows the first thing I do when I get home is wash it off, and I never apply it on the weekends or for any other type of outing.

 

So, it's nice I can personalize my PC with a very practical look, no makeup and hair tied back in a ponytail so it doesn't block her view of combat.

[aTigerslunch]

I wanted to romance Aveline, regardless of her later remarks to Hawke's comments on certain subjects.

 

A variation but set models, meaning, Qunari remain the same, human have slightly bigger breasts, elves to be slimmer/smaller, and the dwarf to be stockier? 

 

Actually, some tabletops kinda make this as their cannon appearances except Qunari would equal troll/ogre. Its fine in some cases but not so much. I actually find the Qunari femquisitor sexy as is. Maybe two model types for each race? Its a lot of work to try and make a variant in body sizes. I'm not sure which would be more difficult, a slider to variance or two models for each race. As a slider can be generalized to one female body of any race just shift sliders around.

 

One that is modest is my preference. I do like the appeal of the traditional but wouldn't really want it for my PC. I stay away from those actually. Playing a game for sex appeal only, theirs specific mature games for that. If I wanted a really sexy looking woman to stare at for appearance only, Id ....well...Prefer not to write that.

[oceanicsurvivor]

When it comes to gender presentation I prefer everything to be as neutral as possible. Makeup should be available to everyone, same with scars, same with hair (if at all possible, I assume if helmets work for everyone hair would too but I know less then Jon Snow so...) Essentially, when it comes to character customization I think every game should imitate Saints Row as much as humanly possible. I get that most of those options are there in jest, but however unintentional, I think that character creator is one of the only ones that really includes individuals outside the gender binary.  I don't even think the Inquisitors voice actor should be tied to male/female. And as for the whole female sashay walk thing...its fine that it exists, it works for many characters but not all, so I'd hope there was a way to opt out. Maybe not this time around, but in the future.

[Tayah]

I'm pretty sure this came up earlier but I don't remember the details and big thread is big...

 

How do we reconcile competing desires for how a character is represented in game, particularly physically.  Some are happy that the woman Qunari is not really sexualized (I think that's pretty sweet too).  Perhaps it's my ignorance speaking, but part of me think there's a fine line between making something attractive, and making them unreasonably sexualized.  Especially if we're working within the confines of fixed body types (lets stick within this constraint please, since it's the current reality for Dragon Age haha).

 

That said, I know there are some that are still hoping the characters are distinctly feminine and that some of these people are still women gamers

Well this is a tough one. Attractive is subjective anyway though unreasonably sexualised is unreasonably sexualised and when I hear that I tend to think of thin women but with ridiculous curves and tiny waists in clothing that leaves very little to the imagination from which most of their skin and assets can be seen and that are clearly there to be stared at and not believable as a serious fighter because it would be impossible to fight effectively in what they're wearing (Blue Gloves example of Isabella is a good one actually despite the fact that I like the character her look didn't suggest she could fight at all). I guess my first question would be why is a female character body type designed the way it is verses why is the male body type designed the way it is? Is there a difference in approach? Do you consciously think about whether the body model looks attractive or competent or badass when designing them? I'm curious because I have no idea how you would go about actually designing a body model.

 

Considering that the body types don't change you still give options to change the face, add makeup, tattoos etc that allow people to customise their character further and that is actually probably where they begin to add personality and what they find attractive anyway so for a female body type I would say something that is in keeping with the race, so for the qunari that is thankfully a taller and bigger body model where as a dwarf would be stocky and muscular and an elf slender and lithe. As long as you keep the body in proportion with the rest of the race then I think that's the best foundation for players to build on. When it comes to making a PC more feminine so long as there is a variety of facial options, makeup, and armours and clothes that people can use you then give the player agency to create a character as feminine or not as they want... though the animations might impact that too.

 

I'm with DragonRacer in finding Lady Hawke's animations jarring though I'm another "tomboy" who preferred playing with lego rather than dolls. I'm another who doesn't necessarily like dresses and skirts and leans toward the full armour for warriors and practical armour for rogues while lamenting the really wierd robes mages often get and wishing my mages could wear light armour or more practical clothes for travelling so many different environments... sigh. sorry got a little off track. Basically what DragonRacer said about makeup and being able to choose to apply it or not (in my case it was my Aunt trying to get me to wear it and I still don't anyway). Having things like scars or not, and a variety of armours that allow those who like more feminine things to dress their characters in more feminine armour and those who don't to dress in more neutral armour. 

 

By the way feminine can mean different things to different people, when I think of feminine I think of long dresses, dresses and skirts in general, make up, florals, prints, lace, frills and things like that often having a degree of pink (though that is probably societal conditioning) in them, So what seems feminine to me may not be what you or others mean when they say feminine either. Just to confuse the subject even more.    

[themikefest]

I'll be content to have very long hair for my femquisitor.

[Blue Gloves]

 

And yet, that's drilled into me so much that I still apply a small bit of makeup for work everyday. Both from how she raised me and because that's what's expected of women in the professional world. But Lord knows the first thing I do when I get home is wash it off, and I never apply it on the weekends or for any other type of outing.

 

So, it's nice I can personalize my PC with a very practical look, no makeup and hair tied back in a ponytail so it doesn't block her view of combat.

Agreed^  I like to wear makeup sometimes, it's like playing dress-up, which I always enjoyed pretty much in equal amounts with some of my more "tom-boyish" pursuits.  99% of the time though, I can't be fussed.  I know I'm only gonna sweat it off or have it washed off in the water anyway.  My characters rarely wear makeup too, since I always make them with combat in mind and the absolute most I ever personally wore in the Army was coverup (for the occasional outbreak) and maybe some mascara and shiny chapstick if we were in garrison and not deployed.  Even when we were back home, most places I was stationed had "Motor-pool Mondays" or the equivalent, for everybody no matter their MOS, and wearing makeup just to get M998 grease and transmission fluid all over seemed rather pointless.  This makes me loathe to put makeup on my rogues and warriors, since it just doesn't feel "real" to me.  I'm glad the options are there though, cause there are surely people who like makeup, and I even usually put it on my mages. I actually knew this one really bad-ass 1LT chick who was a PT stud, and an expert with both the M16 and the M9 who wore makeup every single day, even most of the time in Iraq, so you'll never catch me saying that it's an "unrealistic" option for everyone, just for me.   Also, I would really have liked the option for Kohl lined eyes for my Rameses-looking dude-mage in DAO.

 

 

On a more personal note though- Come to Hawaii girl!  Some of us wear makeup to work, but plenty more barely ever wear anything that is not either waterproof, or capable of being shed at a moment's notice when the surf is right!   My professors consider it a win when we come to class (although not lab, obviously- gotta be covered up in there) wearing slippers (flip-flops) instead of bare feet and my boss is happy when we manage to wear trousers rather than board shorts and rash guards!

[DragonRacer]

Agreed^  I like to wear makeup sometimes, it's like playing dress-up, which I always enjoyed pretty much in equal amounts with some of my more "tom-boyish" pursuits.  99% of the time though, I can't be fussed.  I know I'm only gonna sweat it off or have it washed off in the water anyway.  My characters rarely wear makeup too, since I always make them with combat in mind and the absolute most I ever personally wore in the Army was coverup (for the occasional outbreak) and maybe some mascara and shiny chapstick if we were in garrison and not deployed.  Even when we were back home, most places I was stationed had "Motor-pool Mondays" or the equivalent, for everybody no matter their MOS, and wearing makeup just to get M998 grease and transmission fluid all over seemed rather pointless.  This makes me loathe to put makeup on my rogues and warriors, since it just doesn't feel "real" to me.  I'm glad the options are there though, cause there are surely people who like makeup, and I even usually put it on my mages. I actually knew this one really bad-ass 1LT chick who was like a PT stud, and a expert with both the M16 and the M9 who wore makeup every single day, even most of the time in Iraq, so you'll never catch me saying that it's an "unrealistic" option for everyone, just for me.   Also, I would really have liked the option for Kohl lined eyes for my Rameses-looking dude-mage in DAO.

 

 

On a more personal note though- Come to Hawaii girl!  Some of us wear makeup to work, but plenty more barely ever wear anything that is not either waterproof, or capable of being shed at a moment's notice when the surf is right!   My professors consider it a win when we come to class (although not lab, obviously- gotta be covered up in there) wearing slippers (flip-flops) instead of bare feet and my boss is happy when we manage to wear trousers rather than board shorts and rash guards!

 

I thought I'd remembered reading you had served/are currently serving. Thank you for that. I was in Navy ROTC in high school and, while I did enjoy it, I decided I didn't want to follow it as a career path. Which seems a bit weird since that would've seemed the ideal "knight in shining armor" sort of path I was looking for, but at the time, I was really afraid to travel far from family, friends, and everything I knew. So, I chickened out.

 

If I ever change career paths from the mundane back to "protective", though, I have a mind for local law enforcement as an alternative.

 

I echo the want for Kohl-lining for the fellows. I could definitely think of a few of my Wardens and Hawkes that would've been nice for.

[aTigerslunch]

Blue Gloves, appreciate your time in service.    I'm a vet myself, though being where I was, never saw Motor pool Monday.

Part of topic:

I worked in a receiving branch at first. I saw all kinds of different women in different paths come in. By time I left out of Brigade level, saw women who were mostly the tom-boyish concept with only a couple wearing makeup at that time.

[kukumburr]

The concept of being a "lady" for my lack of knowing a better term.  But just in terms of body types.  Is it bad if, say, the elves/humans/dwarves have a body type that is more typically regarded as "traditionally" attractive in response to the Qunari woman's being less so?  Should we be modest across the board?  Allow for variations between the races?

 

I like to have variations between the races. But the problem I see a lot of the time is that the males are the ones who get the variations, while the females only get them to a lesser extent (because sexiness takes priority). It's not that I wanted the qunari female to specifically be less traditionally attractive, it's that I wanted her to look large and intimidating because that's how the qunari race in general is portrayed. So I didn't want her to basically just be a human female but with horns and grey skin because to me that's saying that her looking sexy to the player is more important than the defining characteristics of her race. However I have no problem with, say, elves being traditionally attractive because they're described as being lithe and beautiful. And I don't mind the body for humans being set to media standards of attractiveness, although ideally there would be a body slider or something (more choice is never bad).

 

A good example of what I don't like would be the race variations in Wildstar. Every female version of the races has the same narrow waist with big breasts and hips, as well as having "proper" posture. This includes the mechanical and golem races. Because clearly they need breasts. Meanwhile the male versions have more variety in proportions and some are more hunched over or upright. World of Warcraft had this problem too to a somewhat lesser extent (at least the female undead hunched over...) and is the reason why I made quite a few male characters. I just don't like it when the male version of a race is meant to portray the traits of the race, while the female version's priority is always to look attractive to the player. Or at least that's how it seems to me.

[Brass_Buckles]

The concept of being a "lady" for my lack of knowing a better term.  But just in terms of body types.  Is it bad if, say, the elves/humans/dwarves have a body type that is more typically regarded as "traditionally" attractive in response to the Qunari woman's being less so?  Should we be modest across the board?  Allow for variations between the races?

 

I think the women should be designed according to the general aesthetics of the race.  Qunari = tall and muscular, dwarves = short and burly (maybe a bit more plump/curvy), elves thin and willowy and maybe less curvy, humans could maybe be more in the middle with the "ideal" body type.

 

As for "ladylike," different people mean different things by that.  Some people LIKE skimpy armor, and I respect that even though I personally dislike it.  Others want things like skirt armors and battle heels--I don't want either of those, but the option would be nice for those who do, as well as for skimpy armor--give us options, make them equal statswise, or let us craft them so that they have equal stats.  And why not make the women's skimpy armor have a male skimpy equivalent?  I would use neither, but there are people who'd use both.

 

Some people were overjoyed at Hawke's Baywatch Butt Sway (not just men, but women too) and will argue vehemently that it was perfect.  I rolled my eyes whenever I had her strolling around, because I thought it looked ridiculous for anyone not intentionally trying to call attention to her butt cheeks--sort of an attempt at seducing anyone around.  Hard to take Hawke seriously as a character, for me, when she walked like that whether she was trying to seduce anyone or not.  I suppose Varric was using some artistic liberties in his storytelling, there...

 

Ooooooh!  I just thought of a perfect example to illustrate my own feelings on the subject!

 

I am helplessly addicted to the little flash game Heroes of Dragon Age, but I have to be honest, Isabela's original redesign and the way she posed on the opening screen and "cover art"- if you will- was mildly offensive to me.  Her hip and bust size were not only increased (or seemingly so) from her character in DA2, the way she was posed with her arm above her head, her chest thrust out, and her butt cocked back just screamed "I could never actually fight this way!  I am obviously only here to be stared at!"

 

However, with the latest update, Morrigan is the new headliner, and I think she was done perfectly.  She's still scantily clad in her classic Morrigan garb, but posed in a manner that clearly says she's about to whoop someone's ass with a massive case of Waking Nightmare, and best of all she's clearly wearing a breast band to keep those puppies from popping out during a fight.  In my opinion- she's a great example of still being sexy without being sexualized.

 

Morrigan's skimpy clothing, though, wasn't appropriate.  The Korcari Wilds were repeatedly said to be cold.  Characters pointed this out to you as you traveled through them.  And yet, here was Morrigan, wandering around wearing next to nothing.  Did being a Witch of the Wilds somehow make her immune to hypothermia?  If she had been in a warmer climate, I'd be more okay with it because her attire does suit her character, but as practical as she is, it never made sense that she'd wear something so impractical for the climate she lives in.  Not only would barely covering her chest be cold, but something that loose would have easily snagged on branches.  Having little coverage also gives you plenty of places for ticks, fleas, mites, and mosquitoes to make a lunch of you.   It seems to me she was designed wearing what she was solely to be sexy without regard to the climate where she was found.  And indeed, cooler-weather clothing could still have been made to look sexy.

 

Sadly I've noticed a trend in Heroes of Dragon Age, wherein most women gradually more "sexed up" as she advances to Tier IV.  Bethany suddenly has cleavage, etc.  I still play and enjoy it, but I am annoyed that women mages have to wear revealing clothing, and Isabella is designed to show off her blocky pixellated cleavage to best effect (she's at JUST the right angle).

 

But hey, different strokes for different folks.

 

I think the real difference between "sexy" and "sexualized" is intention.  Are you making this character to appeal to someone, or are you making this character dress a certain way because that's who they are?  Also, assuming that it's in character for the character to be wearing a revealing clothing, are you considering what climate the character is from when you're putting them in skimpy gear?  Because someone from high in the mountains is likely to dress warmly even if that person does want to show off a hot body.  Etc.

[Ryzaki]

I always had the impression Morrigan wasn't fully human and the cold didn't bother her as it might've a normal person. But that was just my attempt at an explanation XD

[Blue Gloves]

Morrigan's skimpy clothing, though, wasn't appropriate.  The Korcari Wilds were repeatedly said to be cold.  Characters pointed this out to you as you traveled through them.  And yet, here was Morrigan, wandering around wearing next to nothing.  Did being a Witch of the Wilds somehow make her immune to hypothermia?  If she had been in a warmer climate, I'd be more okay with it because her attire does suit her character, but as practical as she is, it never made sense that she'd wear something so impractical for the climate she lives in.  Not only would barely covering her chest be cold, but something that loose would have easily snagged on branches.  Having little coverage also gives you plenty of places for ticks, fleas, mites, and mosquitoes to make a lunch of you.   It seems to me she was designed wearing what she was solely to be sexy without regard to the climate where she was found.  And indeed, cooler-weather clothing could still have been made to look sexy.

 

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.   I thought Morrigan's clothing choice was eminently appropriate for her character because as much as she claimed to be practical, she was attracted to jewelry like a magpie, admitted, several times, that she used her body, appearance, and sexuality as another weapon in her arsenal, and was pretty in love with her image as a sexy, mysterious Witch of the Wilds ("Oh, how she dances under the moon!")  It doesn't feel out of place for me that such a woman would sacrifice practical attire for the sake of aesthetics.   The point of my post, however, was that in Heroes of Dragon Age in particular, not necessarily DAO, her portrayal was far less sexualized than Isabela's- from the addition of the bra and the mercifully unenhanced cleavage to the fighting stance she is posed in.

 

Different strokes though... it's part of what makes this topic so difficult.  We're all going to have a different opinion on what is "sexualized" and what is simply "sexy"

[Ferico21]

I always had the impression Morrigan wasn't fully human and the cold didn't bother her as it might've a normal person. But that was just my attempt at an explanation XD

Well she could transform into a bear or spider in an instant so that kinda kills the concept of her outfit being "realistically practical". 

Personally I wouldn't judge a character by what they wear if they were able to set me on fire with a flick of their wrist.

[aTigerslunch]

Brass Buckles kinda got more on what I was saying with those individual races than me.   Thanks Brass.

 

I can see Hawke's sway as bit over exaggerated, but I didn't mind watching it myself, sorry. Varric may like the female human's butt more than he let on?

 

Morrigan is the type to use her female wily wily ways, and her outfit makes me think she means it. If she was fully covered, I would question it then. Personality for a character makes a huge difference to relate with outfits. Cassie doesn't seem right now the type to get out of armor too much, so a skirt or bikini wouldn't feel right seen her in. I could be wrong, just going by what I seen of her or know of her. Sera wouldn't seem to give a squat about wearing a skirt or not, as long as she didn't feel confining, restricted. Could almost see her wearing holey reused dirty clothes almost. But I don't really know her, just going on extremely little knowledge of she cuts her own hair, doesn't need to be matched.

[themikefest]

Blue Gloves, appreciate your time in service.    I'm a vet myself, though being where I was, never saw Motor pool Monday.

Part of topic:

I worked in a receiving branch at first. I saw all kinds of different women in different paths come in. By time I left out of Brigade level, saw women who were mostly the tom-boyish concept with only a couple wearing makeup at that time.

What branch of the military were you a part of? For me, its been 23 years ago  this month since I wore my uniform.

[Blue Gloves]

What branch of the military were you a part of? For me, its been 23 years ago  this month since I wore my uniform.

Army- Hooah!  I separated in 2007.  My hubs and I decided that only one of us would reenlist shortly after I had my son, and he was due for a promotion to E6, whereas I was looking at another cycle as an E5, so I hung up the ACUs ^_^and went back to school/ civilian life.

[themikefest]

Army- Hooah!  I separated in 2007.  My hubs and I decided that only one of us would reenlist shortly after I had my son, and he was due for a promotion to E6, whereas I was looking at another cycle as an E5, so I hung up the ACUs ^_^and went back to school/ civilian life.

When you talk with him next, say thank you from me for his service and thanks for your service.

[Blue Gloves]

When you talk with him next, say thank you from me for his service and thanks for your service.

O f course- and same to you

[aTigerslunch]

Yes, thank you as well themikefest. I served in the army.   I left it in 99. Also, Blue Gloves let him know I said thanks too.

[Mes]

Additionally, I appreciate that women have the option of applying makeup or not applying any. I have seen some very nicely done Shepards, Wardens, and Hawkes.

 

But I've always appreciated that I could just sliiiiide that bar over to nothing/natural. Because, again, my tomboy self despises makeup. I think that may be equal parts how I naturally am combined with the fact that my mother insisted I wear makeup because "it makes you even prettier". I hated that. It gave me the message that, without makeup, I was somehow a lesser woman, that I was not as attractive as I could be if I only gave in and made myself a girly girl. And I thought I was just fine as myself. And I live in Florida, it is crazy stupid hot most of the year. For someone who is active and likes to be outside, makeup is 100% pointless because you sweat it right back off again.

 

And yet, that's drilled into me so much that I still apply a small bit of makeup for work everyday. Both from how she raised me and because that's what's expected of women in the professional world. But Lord knows the first thing I do when I get home is wash it off, and I never apply it on the weekends or for any other type of outing.

 

So, it's nice I can personalize my PC with a very practical look, no makeup and hair tied back in a ponytail so it doesn't block her view of combat.

 

 

Nice post! I always slide the bar over to neutral/no makeup as well on my characters. I do love my eyeliner in real life, but I don't think I've seen a CC that has let me apply liner without also adding in the shadows and blushes and stuff.

 

I would love for the CC to have makeup options for both men and women, though. Funny how something this arbitrary is so gender-restrictive in our current society (not counting stage and movie makeup of course which is applied to everyone).

[HuldraDancer]

Whelp I just found some inspiration for some female PCs, normally I don't try to make them look like anyone but going back to some old shows I'd really love to make ones as close as I can to these two ladies whose characters I love and find absolutely stunning to boot.

 

 

Um okay so I was going to put some pictures of them in a spoiler tag but for some reason I'm not being allowed to that's a shame

 

Edit: They were going to be a picture of Rogue from X-men evolution and Olivia from SVU both wonderful characters and had qualities I'd like some of my PCs to have

[Tayah]

Whelp I just found some inspiration for some female PCs, normally I don't try to make them look like anyone but going back to some old shows I'd really love to make ones as close as I can to these two ladies whose characters I love and find absolutely stunning to boot.

 

 

Um okay so I was going to put some pictures of them in a spoiler tag but for some reason I'm not being allowed to that's a shame

 

Edit: They were going to be a picture of Rogue from X-men evolution and Olivia from SVU both wonderful characters and had qualities I'd like some of my PCs to have

Rogue is awesome 

 

Bias? what bias? 

[HuldraDancer]

Rogue is awesome 

 

Bias? what bias? 

Rogue being awesome is a fact so it can't be bias 

 

Her, Cheetara, and Elisa were my role models growing up. Which in no way makes me bias either 

[Tayah]

Ah yes I remember Cheetara fondly too though I'm not sure about Elisa? But yes Rogue and Storm I loved along with Cheetara and Panthro and Donatello the last two probably for all their inventions and their were no female ninja turtles sadly. 

 

Nope no biases at all.   

[HuldraDancer]

Ah yes I remember Cheetara fondly too though I'm not sure about Elisa? But yes Rogue and Storm I loved along with Cheetara and Panthro and Donatello the last two probably for all their inventions and their were no female ninja turtles sadly. 

 

Nope no biases at all.   

Elisa was the lady cop from Gargoyles. Blue hair half African American half Native American 100% awesome! Ralph is my fave turtle personally but those three ladies were my top role models for a long long time and still kind of are especially Elisa though that could have a lot to due with my personal love for Goliath and the fact it was nice to see a main character who had similar heritage to my own^^;. Annnnnnnnd now if possible my dwarf PC is going to be like Elisa because Dwarves are the best and Elisa is the best, elf will be cheetara and qunari mage will be Rogue