9318 réponses à ce sujet

[HuldraDancer]

If A is worth more than B, B, in comparison must be worth less than A. It has to be.

 

It's plain, simple, utterly inescapable logic. If I value A more, I value B less in comparison.

 

I prefer attractive people. I value them more. In real life, and in fiction. The inevitable, inescapable consequence is that I value unattractive people less in comparison.

 

There's no way around it.

 

So let me get this straight despite any thing else an LI may have personality or story wise if they are fat you vaule them a lot less to a more attractive but not as well written one? Is this correct?

 

Also I said there is nothing wrong with having preferences, but you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not fit your ideals is a lesser person and that is disrespectful and harmful.

 

Also your opinion does not equal fact. I am really beginning to wonder if you are simply coming onto this thread to try and stir trouble rather than have an actual conversation since you tend to go over the same thing again and again.

 

P.S.

If you value A more than B that just means that you value A more than B. Not that B is less than A. Opinion does not equal fact.

[Gregolian]

Its nice to hear that the new version of Judge Dredd is better than that original version Sly made some years back.

You haven't seen it yet?  You must if you haven't.

 

I am still really curious at how a character looks actually matters more than what they do honestly if I go back to the topic at hand.

[Bob from Accounting]

4) Ok, at this point, either I'm talking to Channing Tatum or you probably have some self-esteem/self-confidence issues to work on.

 

I'm just honest.

 

Everything I've said is merely the extension of one simple premise:

 

That beauty is good thing. That's all.

 

You know, I'm hardly Channing Tatum myself. Always been pretty skinny. (6'0'' and 160 lbs as of right now.) And I have no doubt I'd lose out to a guy who has put on a bit more muscle. I'd be valued less, all else being equal. It's a price I pay gladly.

[Bob from Accounting]

So let me get this straight despite any thing else an LI may have personality or story wise if they are fat you vaule them a lot less to a more attractive but not as well written one? Is this correct?

 

No. I would value them less, all else being equal. But things aren't equal is one is poorly written.

 

Also I said there is nothing wrong with having preferences, but you are pretty much saying that anyone who does not fit your ideals is a lesser person and that is disrespectful and harmful.

 

That sounds like common sense. Of what use are values if they no bearing on people?
 

[Gregolian]

That sounds like common sense. Of what use are values if they no bearing on people?

 

Values and morals are what keep every person in this world from becoming Stalin and other despots.

[KaiserShep]

Even Stalin and other despots have some sense of morality and values, just not those that you'd likely agree with.

[Gregolian]

Even Stalin and other despots have some sense of morality and values, just not those that you'd likely agree with.

Very true.

 

Guess I should say values are what separate us from lions, tigers, bears, and wolves though you could argue even they have values.

[HuldraDancer]

No. I would value them less, all else being equal. But things aren't equal is one is poorly written.

 

 

That sounds like common sense. Of what use are values if they no bearing on people?
 

Out of those two LIs then tell me which one would you have gone for. The more attractive one or the better written one?

 

Preferences are fine telling someone they are less because they don't fit your preference is not. What is hard to grasp about that? What is hard to grasp about it being hurtful and disrespectful? I prefer men with beards but I don't value men who don't have them as any less than those who do?Why  would I? A person is a lot more than their looks. Also why does your opinion matter in a person's value more than someone else's? Calling a person lesser because they don't meet your preference is disrespectful and harmful I don't see what is so hard to understand about that.

[Gregolian]

Out of those two LIs then tell me which one would you have gone for. The more attractive one or the better written one?

 

Preferences are fine telling someone they are less because they don't fit your preference is not. What is hard to grasp about that? What is hard to grasp about it being hurtful and disrespectful? I prefer men with beards but I don't value men who don't have them as any less than those who do?Why  would I? A person is a lot more than their looks. Also why does your opinion matter in a person's value more than someone else's? Calling a person lesser because they don't meet your preference is disrespectful and harmful I don't see what is so hard to understand about that.

Bob is either 12 or the most disturbing person in the world.

[Bob from Accounting]

I don't go up to people and tell them they're worth less. I don't throw rocks at them. I just quietly gravitate towards people I prefer to be around. And quietly enjoy stories with people I prefer. It's only in situations such as these that I have to push back.

 

It's perfectly possible to recognize human value and not be a jerk.

[KaiserShep]

I assume that Game of Thrones is certainly not your thing then. Almost everyone is an irredeemable bastard, and good people die horribly left and right.

[Gregolian]

You think that but that's not true.

 

As a guy that has been overweight his whole life, believe me, I can tell when someone doesn't want to be around me or thinks less of me just because of my weight.  It is VERY easy to tell.  Hey don't even have to do or say anything but it's instantly easy to tell.

[HuldraDancer]

Bob is either 12 or the most disturbing person in the world.

I'd agree with that but I've met 12 year olds that are much more respectful, so I either know some awesome kids or I'm slowly loosing my patience and maybe borderline insulting. I really hope it's not the second one, I do try to keep it respectful but this is wearing me out more than shoveling mulch all day.

[Bob from Accounting]

You think that but that's not true.

 

As a guy that has been overweight his whole life, believe me, I can tell when someone doesn't want to be around me or thinks less of me just because of my weight.  It is VERY easy to tell.  Hey don't even have to do or say anything but it's instantly easy to tell.

 

That sucks.

 

But you can change things.
 

[Allan Schumacher]

I honestly would welcome a coward for a companion...  as long as their cowardice doesn't get another member killed the way Upham did in Saving Private Ryan.

 

Slightly off topic but,

 

Cpl Upham's scenes at the end of Saving Private Ryan are some of the most powerful ones of the whole movie though.  His entire sequence showed a couple of very compelling things.

 

Spoiler

War is terrifying.  I identify with Upham because for all of my imagination, I can probably relate/understand his perspective more than anyone else's.  Also that even a German SS soldier isn't a complete and total monster.  He fought and killed the targets that were shooting at him.  When he saw Upham, complete with a gun and laced with ammunition... he spared him.  He knew Upham wasn't a threat, and wouldn't be.  So it's different than the mercy that Upham showed for Steamboat Willie, which was born out of naivety.  By the end, the loss of Upham's innocence is made complete when he sees Willie shooting.  Even shooting the person that spared his life earlier....  The romanticized view shattered, as Upham revealed himself after working up the courage to step out.  Seeing the smile on Willie's face, a jaded and hateful Upham pulls the trigger.

 

Powerful, powerful stuff.  I have nothing but empathy for Cpl Upham's character

[aTigerslunch]

KaiserShep, and a few others but not Bob, I like your posts.

 

Ran out of likes again quickly in here.

 

Bob, to say a person with some weight is uninteresting is pretty degrading in general. They wont be attractive to you, fine, but to keep them out of games isn't fine.

 

http://www.slate.com.../05/old_and_fat.html

 

Technically, female models of all medieval games are off by a longshot, they should be heavier bottom side according to scientists examing ancient times.

[aTigerslunch]

Gregolian, very nice images, like it.

[Allan Schumacher]

Please not the Sly one-liners...  please......

 

I'm pretty sure we have a preference towards Schwarzenegger one liners, so you should be safe.

[oceanicsurvivor]

That sucks.

 

But you can change things.
 

 

Oh really?  It's that simple. Well golly gee thanks, I'm sure no fat person has ever heard that before.

 

Will you like us then Bob

 

Neither he nor anyone else needs to change. People are people. People have value. People deserve to be judged for the content of their character and again, being fat is not a character flaw.

[Gregolian]

Slightly off topic but,

 

Cpl Upham's scenes at the end of Saving Private Ryan are some of the most powerful ones of the whole movie though.  His entire sequence showed a couple of very compelling things.

 

Spoiler

War is terrifying.  I identify with Upham because for all of my imagination, I can probably relate/understand his perspective more than anyone else's.  Also that even a German SS soldier isn't a complete and total monster.  He fought and killed the targets that were shooting at him.  When he saw Upham, complete with a gun and laced with ammunition... he spared him.  He knew Upham wasn't a threat, and wouldn't be.  So it's different than the mercy that Upham showed for Steamboat Willie, which was born out of naivety.  By the end, the loss of Upham's innocence is made complete when he sees Willie shooting.  Even shooting the person that spared his life earlier....  The romanticized view shattered, as Upham revealed himself after working up the courage to step out.  Seeing the smile on Willie's face, a jaded and hateful Upham pulls the trigger.

 

Powerful, powerful stuff.  I have nothing but empathy for Cpl Upham's character

 

Oh I understand it but I hate how he doesn't even try to help.

 

Gregolian, very nice images, like it.

 

Are you speaking of the ones on page 177?

 

I'm pretty sure we have a preference towards Schwarzenegger one liners, so you should be safe.

 

Ruh-roh.

[Bob from Accounting]

Bob, to say a person with some weight is uninteresting is pretty degrading in general. They wont be attractive to you, fine, but to keep them out of games isn't fine.

 

99.9999% percent of people are 'kept out' of epic stories.

 

Forget attractiveness. What about courage? What about skill? What about determiniation? The characters we see have incredible skill, incredible courage, incredible determination. Does that 'represent' the average viewer? The above-average viewer?

 

Absolutely not. Not even bloody close.

[Gregolian]

99.9999% percent of people are 'kept out' of epic stories.

 

Forget attractiveness. What about courage? What about skill? What about determiniation? The characters we see have incredible skill, incredible courage, incredible determination. Does that 'represent' the average viewer? The above-average viewer?

 

Absolutely not. Not even bloody close.

Even the most "average" or "below average" looking people in terms of build types can do amazing things:

 

[Bob from Accounting]

Neither he nor anyone else needs to change. People are people. People have value. People deserve to be judged for the content of their character and again, being fat is not a character flaw.

 

They do if they want to be great.

 

Neither you, nor me, nor him, nor anyone else has become or will become great by thinking "I'm just fine and dandy the way I am." Greatness means pushing yourself, and always striving to do better. To be better.

[Allan Schumacher]

If A is worth more than B, B, in comparison must be worth less than A. It has to be.

 

It's plain, simple, utterly inescapable logic. If I value A more, I value B less in comparison.

 

I prefer attractive people. I value them more. In real life, and in fiction. The inevitable, inescapable consequence is that I value unattractive people less in comparison.

 

There's no way around it.

 

I prefer attractive people to.  I think we just have different metrics as to what constitutes attractive.

 

The physical component, for myself, is not a particularly high bar to achieve.  The other components of attraction, however, are significantly more important.

 

And the physical component only really exists for sexual attraction.  The bar is even lower for friends (though I'll concede that cultural influences will likely prevent me from excluding it entirely).

[oceanicsurvivor]

They do if they want to be great.

 

Neither you, nor me, nor him, nor anyone else has become or will become great by thinking "I'm just fine and dandy the way I am." Greatness means pushing yourself, and always striving to do better. To be better.

 

People should always learn, change, adapt and grow. But skinny isn't better. Skinny is skinny. It has no bearing on your moral character and it shouldn't have any bearing on one's self worth.