9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

I find it kinda neat and validating that the average adult woman gamer has been gaming for 13 years. Sounds accurate for a median to me. I've been gaming since I was roughly 5 or 6 years old, when my Dad taught me how to play his Atari 2600. I'm 29 now so that's, what? 23-24 years gaming now?

 

Awesome!  I was about three when my memories of playing Kaboom!  on the same system as well.  So for this lady, it's been over 31 years and counting. (oh dear god.)

 

I'm sure there is a couple of lady gamers around the BSN that used to play pinball and PONG too.  

[Gregolian]

I can think of many reasons why some might frown upon this sort of thing.  None of them particularly compelling and many of which are ostensibly poor and fueled with all sorts of negative implications.

 

But why might people frown upon this sort of thing?

For a game like say, Battlefield or CoD which are supposed to be set at least SOMEWHAT in reality I can understand a distinct lack of playable female characters.

[Zjarcal]

loldavid

[Grieving Natashina]

For a game like say, Battlefield or CoD which are supposed to be set at least SOMEWHAT in reality I can understand a distinct lack of playable female characters.

Actually, they added female characters to the multiplayer aspect of COD.  

 

http://kotaku.com/wh...duty-1142063196

 

http://www.vg247.com...ale-characters/

 

So even that doesn't work anymore as an excuse.  

[Gregolian]

Actually, they added female characters to the multiplayer.  

 

http://kotaku.com/wh...duty-1142063196

 

http://www.vg247.com...ale-characters/

 

So even that doesn't work anymore.  

I know CoD has the female MP player model to pick and BF4 had a very prominent female character in the story but when I said playable female character I was leaning more towards the single player portions of those games.

[Grieving Natashina]

I know CoD has the female MP player model to pick and BF4 had a very prominent female character in the story but when I said playable female character I was leaning more towards the single player portions of those games.

I look at the long history of women serving in the various armies throughout time, and to the women served in the armed forces around the world currently, I think that realism™ argument is a bogus reason to have no female characters at all.

[Gregolian]

I look at the long history of women serving in the various armies throughout time, and to the women served in the armed forces around the world currently, I think that realism™ argument is a bogus reason to have no female characters at all.

I am not advocating for none but those instances I can understand "less" so to speak.  I can only speak based on what I know from friends that serve or have served in combat units and for most of them they said yes there would be some women in the units but the ratio of women to men was very one-sided.

 

I'm not trying to be offensive so if I am coming across as such I apologize...  I basically almost drowned myself earlier swimming.  My right calf and left thigh both cramped up when I pushed off the side of the pool and the way I reacted I inhaled a giant amount of pool water and thrashed around like an idiot.

[Allan Schumacher]

Have you considered that they might just be trying to be honest?

What are they being honest about when they frown on the idea of women playing video games? Are you referring to exclusively the arguments made to support more women in games?
 

I hear a statistic like "Women make up half of video game purchases" and I think to myself there's no way in hell that's true. It sounds to me like something completely dishonest. I don't buy it.

Why not? That I find something surprising needn't make it untrue. Furthermore, why does that number specifically bother you?
 

So yeah, if people feel that way, they're going to scoff at it. They're going to attack it and tear it down. It has nothing to do with opposing women playing video games and everything to do with not liking bad statistics and bad arguments.
 
I cannot seriously imagine anyone being genuinely opposed to the idea of women playing video games. My impression has alway been the opposite is true - that most guys would really prefer more girls to play video games.

I've seen on these very boards posts from posters that feel that women are infringing on one of the last places where it is "safe to be a man that likes manly things."
 
I find the resistance isn't so much from women wanting to play video games, but rather that enough women are now playing video games that they're starting to voice their disapproval towards certain common aspects that they would really prefer to see changed (and some men too, for that matter).

[Grieving Natashina]

I am not advocating for none but those instances I can understand "less" so to speak.  I can only speak based on what I know from friends that serve or have served in combat units and for most of them they said yes there would be some women in the units but the ratio of women to men was very one-sided.

 

I'm not trying to be offensive so if I am coming across as such I apologize...  I basically almost drowned myself earlier swimming.  My right calf and left thigh both cramped up when I pushed off the side of the pool and the way I reacted I inhaled a giant amount of pool water and thrashed around like an idiot.

Hey, no worries.  Besides, you seemed polite about it, which is all I can ask on the forums.  

 

And yikes!  I'm glad you're okay.  

[Bob from Accounting]

Honest in examining a statistic.

 

It doesn't 'bother' me, I just think it's wrong. It goes very heavily against how I've seen people act. And it's easy to imagine how it could be skewed.

 

I've seen on these very boards posts from posters that feel that women are infringing on one of the last places where it is "safe to be a man that likes manly things."

 

I haven't heard that before. That is kinda weird.

[Gregolian]

Hey, no worries.  Besides, you seemed polite about it, which is all I can ask on the forums.  

 

And yikes!  I'm glad you're okay.  

It was me over-reacting to something in a very stupid way admittedly.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Bob Funny how you're avoiding the question about the Dragon Age games.  I will take you continued silence on this and on several threads as a no.  Which means you've been telling Dragon Age fans how they are wrong about the game they actually play for years now and why their various opinions are wrong without even playing the games. 

 

Also, funny how you suddenly "don't have a problem with women in games," yet made several posts telling the thread why asking for more women in games is a bad thing.  

 

Which is it, Bob?

[Kimberly]

Some articles on women gamers

http://www.usatoday....dience/2411529/

http://www.theesa.co...p?releaseID=202

[kukumburr]

Have you considered that they might just be trying to be honest?

 

I hear a statistic like "Women make up half of video game purchases" and I think to myself there's no way in hell that's true. It sounds to me like something completely dishonest. I don't buy it.

 

So yeah, if people feel that way, they're going to scoff at it. They're going to attack it and tear it down. It has nothing to do with opposing women playing video games and everything to do with not liking bad statistics and bad arguments.

 

Statistics aren't something you get to agree or disagree with. If you think the survey method was flawed then I suggest you find evidence to show why you think that's the case. Even if the statistics aren't perfect (and they almost certainly aren't) I don't see any reason to suspect that they're way off the mark. It'd be nice to have other surveys we could look at for comparison, but I think the ESA has a pretty good reason to want to get accurate data. And I would still value "bad" statistics above someone's personal opinion.

 

Someone who refutes quantitative reasoning just because they don't like the results really isn't worth arguing with. It would be impossible to convince them of anything they don't want to be convinced of.

[Bob from Accounting]

First of all, I never said asking for more women is a bad thing. Only that care needs to be taken so that the female characters are acknowledged and respected as legitimate characters.

 

Secondly, I've completed Origins and will play Dragon Age 2 as soon as I feel comfortable dumping some stuff on my hard drive.

[Bob from Accounting]

I think the ESA has a pretty good reason to want to get accurate data.

 

Acutally, the ESA has 'pretty good reason' to get very inaccurate data.

 

A higher percentage of female helps legitimize the medium. It makes them look all the better. They have every reason not to look too close when they get favorable results.

[spirosz]

female characters are acknowledged and respected as legitimate characters.

 

 

I would suggest wording that more carefully.  The gender of an individual doesn't make them "less" legitimate. 

[Grieving Natashina]

@Bob

 

Your previous posts say otherwise, because you've been unhesitating protesting the notion.  I take you completely ignored the article I put up, where the writer said exactly what we wanted, as in not being treated like objects and not being constantly told that we should be excluded?  Did you overlook the OP, where Brass said the same and more?  

 

You may try to claim that you want a good character for women.  Yet when women express what they want, you have gone out of your way to tell them they are wrong.  The gaming industry has a whole has enough faith in those numbers to cite them left and right.  Including David Gaider himself, in the 2013 GDC panel as well as Manveer Heir at the GDC panel from earlier this year.  I'm sorry if you find it so hard to believe that women are almost half of all gamers, and buy as much games as the men, but you're about 10 years behind the times.  

 

Also, I've watched you give your opinions on Dragon Age 2 characters and story in several threads, yet you haven't played it yet?  Okay, now I know you base your opinions about at least that game going off of what other people have said.  You haven't formed your own opinions, just going by others.  

 

Now you claim that a well credited and respected source for video game data "just can't be right."   Well, now I know not to take you seriously.  Thank you for making that easy on me.

 

 

Guy's...he's trolling and succeeding at it. He's not logical and is going to keep spewing stupid and misogynistic stuff to get a rise out of people "women don't really buy games" "fat or ugly people are worthless" "games shouldn't be inclusive of women or treat them like people" etc...just put him on ignore.

I'm done with him and I'll happily move on with my life.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I'd go with "too scared to buck the "'accepted industry wisdom'" myself.   

 

Within the industry absolutely I attribute it to that significantly more because assuming ill intent from devs anywhere is exhausting and depressing. The comment (to the best of my understanding) was about players who 'frowned upon' the stats.

[Allan Schumacher]

It doesn't 'bother' me, I just think it's wrong. It goes very heavily against how I've seen people act. And it's easy to imagine how it could be skewed.

 

If it doesn't bother you, then why would you come in and try to correct people.  I'm skeptical that it's simply in the name of "making sure people have factual data" and not in any way related to what inaccurate data may lead people to be conclude.

 

Further, since you're implying that we're victims of confirmation bias, I have to ask what your justification is in thinking that the numbers are wrong beyond your own personal perceptions and that you may be rejecting the information on a confirmation bias of your own.

 

 

I have heard numbers that AAA console games tend to have a 2:1 ratio.  Is that number more palatable to your liking?

 

 

To be blunt, to me it seems like you're shifting the goalposts about what you're arguing about.

 

 

It seemed very much like you have reservations with the idea that women should be more represented:

 

"Just the arguments that women should be represented more and whatnot."

 

But now you're saying:

 

"First of all, I never said asking for more women is a bad thing. Only that care needs to be taken so that the female characters are acknowledged and respected as legitimate characters."

 

 

So you seem to be contradicting yourself.  Please clarify so I can understand what you're trying argue.

 

 

Second, please elaborate on what you mean by "acknowledged and respected as legitimate characters."  Because I'm of the impressoin that you seem to feel that that the women here don't understand what it takes to have an appropriate female character in a game.  So please, elaborate.

[spirosz]

Second, please elaborate on what you mean by "acknowledged and respected as legitimate characters."  Because I'm of the impressoin that you seem to feel that that the women here don't understand what it takes to have an appropriate female character in a game.  So please, elaborate.

 

Also - this too.  I'm confused by this, as a gender shouldn't have to prove it's legitimacy as a "character". 

 

 

[Grieving Natashina]

<snipped for space>

Thank you!!

[themikefest]

Awesome!  I was about three when my memories of playing Kaboom!  on the same system as well.  So for this lady, it's been over 31 years and counting. (oh dear god.)

 

I'm sure there is a couple of lady gamers around the BSN that used to play pinball and PONG too.  

Male gamer here. I remember playing pong back in 1973. My greatest moment was beating my father at that time.

 

Up until I joined the military, I played off and on. In the military I played very little and after I got out due to my illness and injuries suffered in combat, I did more gaming. Since I retired just over 5 years ago, I have put in thousands of hours, most playing Dragon Age and Mass Effect. For me what makes their games great is the replay value. That is a strong selling point for me.

 

My lady friend, who is 52, is not a fan of video games, but watches me play them. She has mentioned that she may want to try playing DAI since she likes what she sees. So now, I will get a PS4 and another 50" tv so we can play side by side.

[Grieving Natashina]

Male gamer here. I remember playing pong back in 1973. My greatest moment was beating my father at that time.

 

Up until I joined the military, I played off and on. In the military I played very little and after I got out due to my illness and injuries suffered in combat, I did more gaming. Since I retired just over 5 years ago, I have put in thousands of hours, most playing Dragon Age and Mass Effect. For me what makes their games great is the replay value. That is a strong selling point for me.

 

My lady friend, who is 52, is not a fan of video games, but watches me play them. She has mentioned that she may want to try playing DAI since she likes what she says. So now, I will get a PS4 and another 50" tv so we can play side by side.

That is awesome!! _{Out of likes, in case you can't tell.}

[Nefla]

Awesome!  I was about three when my memories of playing Kaboom!  on the same system as well.  So for this lady, it's been over 31 years and counting. (oh dear god.)

 

I'm sure there is a couple of lady gamers around the BSN that used to play pinball and PONG too.  

Just turned 30, and though I never really played arcade games, I started with Mario/Duck Hunt for the NES and have been gaming ever since. I've forgotten more games than most people will ever play