9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Gregolian]

But, did anyone here actually contact Kotaku, The Escapist, or Forbes w/ this?  I know I didn't, but I rectified that as soon as I saw Allan's post.  Maybe no one will pick up on it, but I emailed Dave Thier at Forbes, the news room at IGN, and John Keefer at The Esacpist just now. Never know- maybe someone'll do a piece.

I contacted Kotaku and the response I got was basically "yeah that's great, we saw that at e3"........

 

I get a better response from the drunk clientele at the bar I work at when they are so hammered they can barely remember their own name.

[Ziggy]

Then again it is kind of depressing that having a game developer not completely ignore the female pc in marketing is actually newsworthy. Really shows how far we have to go.

[Allan Schumacher]

Then again it is kind of depressing that having a game developer not completely ignore the female pc in marketing is actually newsworthy. Really shows how far we have to go.

 

Indeed it is.  It's starting to come along though I think.

[Gregolian]

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The Stig!

[Allan Schumacher]

Really glad i dont understand all this, i just pity the game developers who be afraid to put a bikini on a woman now for fear of being branded a sexist

 

They're free to do it.  They just have to understand the context by which they do it.  That they do it doesn't make them immune from having it critiqued (just like us not doing it doesn't make us immune either)

[Brass_Buckles]

Really glad i dont understand all this, i just pity the game developers who be afraid to put a bikini on a woman now for fear of being branded a sexist

 

Your desire to see women in skimpy clothing (basically, to be titillated) does not trump the desire of other players (in this case, women) to feel that they are being treated like people, as opposed to inflatable sex toys.  I understand there are beach volleyball games etc. specifically made for those who desire to see scantily clad sexualized women.  There will likely always be games like that, and games that are campy/skewed to the ridiculous wherein everyone is dressed absurdly.

 

I do not pity game developers who don't know the difference between treating my entire gender as a person, and treating them as blow-up dolls valued only for their appearance and the ability of straight men to have sex with them.  (I.e. bikinis on the beach?  Great.  Bikinis in a beauty contest?  Sure.  Bikinis as armor... what seriously?)  And again, there will always be games made specifically to cater to those looking for titillation.

 

Now, if you really have nothing to contribute except to say "Oh poor developers, how dare people ask for representation without being treated like blow-up dolls," then this is probably not a thread you should be posting in.  You will not be welcome here.  If, on the other hand, you are willing to be respectful, then by all means please stick around.

 

Did a bit of editing for clarity.

 

Also, edited to add:  I apologize if this post seems harsh, but we've had some people come in with the express purpose of derailing the thread and/or swamping it with negativity etc.  So, before it gets to that point, I'm making my stance crystal clear.

[aTigerslunch]

I read several where Caladin does support this thread and topics within most that I remembered.

 

Edit: I don't think they will stop completely either, at least hopefully try to pull away from sexualizing women. Bikini on in middle of a blizzard, to be sexy, not practical makes sense?  I'd tell her to go throw clothes on before freezing to death.

[Ziggy]

Really glad i dont understand all this, i just pity the game developers who be afraid to put a bikini on a woman now for fear of being branded a sexist

 

I don't feel sorry for them.

If you're not interested in trying to understand 'all this' and being respectful about it then you should leave this thread.

[Gregolian]

The Stig!

Did you see what that gif is from?  Off topic I know but it's awesome and a must watch:

 

 

other players (in this case, women) to feel that they are being treated like people

OI!  Generalizations......

 

I know I am fat but my man ****** do not make me a female...  I don't think.....

[greywatch]

dont understand now why im being dis-respectful tbh, i actually agree with what alan said in that they need to understand the context there doing it an be open to criticism, i just feel its getting to a stage where game developers will be paranoid to put a bikini on a woman regardless the situation unless there branded a sexist.

 

I'm getting to the point of being so sick of seeing "bikini-armour babes" in video games that I'm almost looking forward to that. 

 

Now, I don't necessarily have a problem with women in bikinis, but it sure would make me feel better if it was a case of being sexualized, that men were equally dressed down for women's titillation. Which they basically never are.

 

Edit: I shouldn't have assumed everyone interested in men would be straight women. Amend my statement to include men and non-binary folks who also would be titillated by a sexualized man.

[Nefla]

OMG!!!!  Nefla- you should use your crazy art skills to make us a Mystique femquizzy in honor of our newly revealed American VA!

For you (excuse the shakiness, I did it on an airplane and there was turbulence >_<  also I had no reference  )

Your desire to see women in skimpy clothing (basically, to be titillated) does not trump the desire of other players (in this case, women) to feel that they are being treated like people, as opposed to inflatable sex toys.  I understand there are beach volleyball games etc. specifically made for those who desire to see scantily clad sexualized women.  There will likely always be games like that, and games that are campy/skewed to the ridiculous wherein everyone is dressed absurdly.

 

I do not pity game developers who don't know the difference between treating my entire gender as a person, and treating them as blow-up dolls valued only for their appearance and the ability of straight men to have sex with them.  (I.e. bikinis on the beach?  Great.  Bikinis in a beauty contest?  Sure.  Bikinis as armor... what seriously?)  And again, there will always be games made specifically to cater to those looking for titillation.

 

Now, if you really have nothing to contribute except to say "Oh poor developers, how dare people ask for representation without being treated like blow-up dolls," then this is probably not a thread you should be posting in.  You will not be welcome here.  If, on the other hand, you are willing to be respectful, then by all means please stick around.

 

Did a bit of editing for clarity.

 

Also, edited to add:  I apologize if this post seems harsh, but we've had some people come in with the express purpose of derailing the thread and/or swamping it with negativity etc.  So, before it gets to that point, I'm making my stance crystal clear.

/slow clap

[Brass_Buckles]

 

Did you see what that gif is from?  Off topic I know but it's awesome and a must watch:

 

 

OI!  Generalizations......

 

I know I am fat but my man ****** do not make me a female...  I don't think.....

 

 

Women are dehumanized when women are portrayed as basically things to be ogled, as opposed to human beings.  Not all women are upset by this, and not all men are okay with it.  However, I was referring to female players having their avatars (and other female characters around that avatar) be treated as less than a person.  Yes, men can play female characters, but then it's your character being dehumanized.  Men themselves are still treated as people.  I wasn't trying to say that men are all okay with this sort of thing.

 

If you re-read my post, I hope you will understand what I mean.  When female characters are dehumanized, it extends to the woman player.  If the player of that female character is a man, he might feel bad for his character or uncomfortable about it--because after all most men know at least one or two women--but it does not dehumanize him the way it does a player who is a woman.  He is, after all, not a woman in the real world and can simply stop being a woman the moment he turns off his game.  A real-world woman is still a woman when she turns off her game.  (Also trying to use woman and man here because there are female men and male women and, yeah... trans women can also likely be made to feel uncomfortable by certain portrayals.)

[HuldraDancer]

Nefla I really want to use that Mystique Inquisitor picture as my computer's background so much x3

[Gregolian]

I know what you were saying my thing was more on the whole point that I admittedly thought you were saying only women cared about this sort of thing.

[Mes]

 i just feel its getting to a stage where game developers will be paranoid to put a bikini on a woman regardless the situation unless there branded a sexist.

 

 

Don't you worry about those poor game devs. Most of them don't care about what we think of the female portrayals in their games.

 

If it gets to a stage where all game devs think that bikinis = sexism, then they're utterly failing to see the actual problem, and we're back to square zero.

[Brass_Buckles]

dont understand now why im being dis-respectful tbh, i actually agree with what alan said in that they need to understand the context there doing it an be open to criticism, i just feel its getting to a stage where game developers will be paranoid to put a bikini on a woman regardless the situation unless there branded a sexist.

 

Edit: An thats no a nice place to be tbh, being scared to do your job the way you want to do it in fear of being branded, branded anything

 

Why should they be paranoid?  There are situations where a bikini is okay, and situations where it isn't.

 

I don't feel sorry for anyone who can't understand the difference, because it's pretty simple.  Bikinis are for the beach or the pool or beauty contests.  Lingerie is for the bedroom or the brothel.  Armor is that leather, metal, Kevlar, ceramic, or lamellar stuff you wear to keep from getting killed on the battlefield that is more effective the more of you it covers.  Pretty simple.  Now, are there some characters who'd go around in a catsuit? Sure.  More so in comic genres.  Are there characters who would wander around bikini-clad or nude?  Sure.  But in that case, it's all about that character, and if she (or he, though this would be VERY rare indeed) is only about striking sexy poses/looking sexy, then... maybe there's something being done wrong there.

 

Even beyond that, there's also a huge difference between a gritty, tries-hard-to-be-realistic fantasy/sci-fi/steampunk/cyberpunk/alternate history/real-world game, and a more light-hearted, goofy game where people can survive sword fights clad in nothing but a midriff shirt and miniskirt, and where a loincloth or battle bikini is actually more effective than full plate (for either sex).  Context is important.

 

And frankly most developers haven't shown any fear of putting women into skimpy clothing thus far.  I expect it will be decades before they finally do.  Personally I appreciate games that let me wear honest-to-goodness clothing/armor, rather than a bikini.  Others love the battle bikini look.  I won't play a game that has it, unless I'm playing a male (since they usually get actual armor), or both sexes are given equal treatment in the skimpy sexualized armor department (this rarely happens).

 

Also, while I'm not a fan of games made for the purpose of titillation, they exist (the aforementioned beach volleyball game) and really... they are often pornographic or borderline pornographic.  So I can't exactly critique them for being sexist when, well, people like their porn, apparently (personally not a porn fan/watcher here... but, you know, lots of people do and that's okay).  Would be better, however, if similar games were also made for women.   When titillation is the entire purpose of the media, yeah it's sort of inherently sexist, but it's not about that, it's about, you know.  Getting people hot and bothered.  So, I don't think it's necessarily fair to judge that in the same way you judge a gritty fantasy or sci-fi game.

[Oasis_JS]

ok ok.. hm.. the female demo look pretty cool still.  i cant wait play it =D

[HuldraDancer]

Don't you worry about those poor game devs. Most of them don't care about what we think of the female portrayals in their games.

 

If it gets to a stage where all game devs think that bikinis = sexism, then they're utterly failing to see the actual problem, and we're back to square zero.

 

Mes I think you mean they don't caaaaaaaaaaaare~

 

At least that's how my 'friend' puts it, since game mechanics are more important than silly sexist things like putting women in games didn't you know we're a feature that most games shouldn't worry about? And we have TombRaider we should be happy with that and only that. 

 

Ahem sorry just got done talking to them and it got brought up again and made me rather upset ^^;

[Allan Schumacher]

dont understand now why im being dis-respectful tbh, i actually agree with what alan said in that they need to understand the context there doing it an be open to criticism, i just feel its getting to a stage where game developers will be paranoid to put a bikini on a woman regardless the situation unless there branded a sexist.

 

Edit: An thats no a nice place to be tbh, being scared to do your job the way you want to do it in fear of being branded, branded anything

 

When you come in and say "really glad I don't understand this" it sets a tone of your message to be "I don't know why this is a problem and I don't really care to learn" which is going to put people on the defensive right away.

 

 

To be fair, plenty of artistic choices get kyboshed because someone else somewhere says "you can't do that... that's not what the data says sells" so the being afraid to do their job the way they want works both ways.

[Mes]

Mes I think you mean they don't caaaaaaaaaaaare~

 

At least that's how my 'friend' puts it, since game mechanics are more important than silly sexist things like putting women in games didn't you know we're a feature that most games shouldn't worry about? And we have TombRaider we should be happy with that and only that. 

 

Ahem sorry just got done talking to them and it got brought up again and made me rather upset ^^;

 

Thank you for the correction, ahem yes let me rephrase that - they dooooon't caaaaaaaaare.

 

I feel for you - that conversation would exhaust my patience very quickly.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I'm not sure which one of you it is (I'm assuming it is), but there was an interesting tumblr post that I saw some coworkers retweet.  The person's twitter (Ellorgast) points out the frustration that everyone jumped on other studios for lack of women, but nothing real came out of our reveal.

 

Negative news does seem to sell over positive news it seems.  And during E3 it was quite the hot topic, but how would we go about encouraging more proliferation of "this is the way we want" type of news?  I'll admit the obvious benefits BioWare would have if you went off and campaigned for more exposure for us for doing this, but at the same time in general how do we promote and encourage more positive waves (regardless of what sort of waves we happen to be casting).

 

Yeah, its very strange...I know no one who participated in the cupcakequisition did it for publicity sake, but I haveta admit I totally expected that info to get picked up. At the very least it was a cute holiday fluff piece! But I regularly check a LOT of game websites and didn't see anything...but if you google 'bioware fans send cupcakes' there are about a zillion posts and news articles about the Mass Effect 3 ending angry cupcakes. Last I checked, absolutely nothing about last week.

 

I was half tempted to submit like, tips to Polygon, IGN, Gameinformer, heck The Mary Sue and  any other sites saying 'dear god just check the Bioware devs twitter feeds already!!!' I didn't b/c some of the tweets show participants names and that made me uncomfortable. But I definitely feel as if people should see/know that not ONLY was a fantastic and massive dev actually being inclusive while Ubisoft was off being ...Ubisoft but men and women were grateful enough to come together b/c of that and do something. It shows that it is a big deal, and it should  at least be half the news story Biowares last fan given cupcakes were. It just seems like such a shame that so much negativity is perpetuated, especially when Bioware is doing so much worth celebrating.