9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

Well, they don't count for me, unless I can play it as a single player, which i do in TOR.  I'm anti-social.  Only play single player games so i don't have to play with other people.   If I were a guy there would be plenty of single player games i could pick from.  As a woman, not so many.  It's one reason I buy BioWare, Elder Scrolls and Fall Out.  Though Fall out 3 had been out for a few years before I picked it up, because I didn't realize I could play myself until I heard it somewhere else, probably here.

I overwhelmingly gravitate towards games where I can make my own character of either gender over ones with a fixed protagonist, especially a dudebro. Unfortunately, even though almost every MMORPG allows this, most have no story/character depth/etc...

 

PS, if you ever decide to be social on SWtOR, I am on Almost all the NA servers :3

[Banxey]

Well just to be fair I hear loads of comments like "suck my d" or something referring to my mother and what not (mostly in multiplayer shooters) That just shows who is on the other end of the internet.

And you seem to think your gender is relevant - hence the "demand" of using a female char in marketing. Now don't get me wrong here. What I mean is if all the women went out and showed that they are women than the marketing guys would see you as an actual number (that's how they see males).

Also your gender is relevant in a the way that a different marketing strategy applies.

 

This is not said directed at you specifically, Legenlorn. But I need to get something off of my chest. So I apologise in advance to everyone. Especially to my future self, who will facepalm this need to rant in a public forum.

 

I have been trash talked a lot and it doesn't bother me at all. But one thing I'd like to point out which I've seen come up a few times on this forum (and others), is the argument that women don't get harassed in multiplayer games. I have been avoiding confronting these arguments because it's not something I like to get into (or think about). But when I keep hearing "we all get trash talked, suck it up" I get irritated. Not that Legenlorn said that exactly, but sometimes reading "yeah, I get it too." feels that way.

 

I'm not going to champion all women, but there is a difference between being called a *** or having your mother made fun of and the things I've experienced. One of which was making the "mistake" of warning my team about something and suffering months of abuse (of the I'm going to find where you live and rape you sort) from someone who didn't speak to me once during the game. Not only from him, but his friends (whom I'd never played with). They were not teenage boys either, if that matters at all. Without getting into specifics, it resulted in bans of both long time accounts and dummy accounts created for the purpose of harassment. I have spoken to enough women about similar things to know it's not something that has just happened to me. I do know of something like this happening to a man (who happened to be gay), but it was obvious to me that I was targeted because I was female. I can't honestly say how common it is. I hope it's not, and would feel better about having my mic plugged in if I knew it was rare enough that it would never happen to me again.

 

Moreover I don't know many men who regularly get treated well by other players, only to have the conversation suddenly turn sexual and then be attacked because they politely tell the other player that it's not cool. I also don't see men getting kicked out of teams because one player decides they "sound cute" and then completely ignores reviving the other players in favour of following them around to make sure "you're doing OK." I swear, I have never wanted a ****punch button more. Forget being kicked out of lobbies because you're a girl. How about saying something in a game, having your team declare "GIRL!" lose their **** and go stand in the corner of the map spinning in circles because apparently you are playing an easy class and they don't want you to think you could outscore them. The point is that they were willing to lose gear and credits just to prove what exactly? That a girl has no business outscoring them even if they have the excuse that she is using an easy class. 

 

But please dear Maker, if all I ever had to deal with was "Get in the kitchen." and "Suck my D" I would be perfectly happy. I would plug my mic back in and give it as good as I got. (Note: Guys who tell girls they find it unattractive when women swear also need attention from the ****punch button).

 

There was a topic specific point to this rant, by the way. I think if women were marketed to and less sexualised women were portrayed in games and marketing, it would eventually be less of shock for these men to discover that women are in "their" gamespace. It would also show them that women aren't only in that gamespace for their sexual gratification. I know not every man thinks that way, but I guarantee you most women who are wary of speaking to other gamers in multiplayer believe that they are more likely to encounter such men. Frankly, it's insulting to everyone, but it is how things stand.

[Stelae]

I overwhelmingly gravitate towards games where I can make my own character of either gender over ones with a fixed protagonist, especially a dudebro. Unfortunately, even though almost every MMORPG allows this, most have no story/character depth/etc...

 

PS, if you ever decide to be social on SWtOR, I am on Almost all the NA servers :3

I tend to the same sorts of games these days, for the same reasons.  My gaming time is limited; if I'm going to be playing a fixed character, they, or the game, or both have to be extraordinary.  (Dishonoured, Tombraider, Bioshock Infinite, Gone Home level extraordinary, I'm talking ... )

 

And I'd like to second the SWTOR invite; if you ever decide you want a bit of safe social action, I'm on the non-PvP West Coast servers, and one of the East Coast ones.  Goes for all of youse. 

[Ispan]

Banxey, there was a time when 95% of my game time was spent on MMOs and MP games.  I met many men and women who were wonderful through online gaming (even my husband) and I also experienced a lot of "harassment" that was easily ignored ("lol you only get epics because of boobs).  Then something happened and a man gathered his friends to harass me around the clock through in game messages, emails, facebooking, forum posts and even phone calls.  It was such a terrible experience that I couldn't participate in anything multiplayer and refused to buy any game with an "always online" function.

 

I agree that consistently including a woman (who doesn't exist to be sexual) in game marketing could subtly chip away at this weird sentiment that women are invading gaming.  Maybe it doesn't seem important to some people because the change might not be huge or instantly noticeable, but I appreciate it as another way to make it clear that women belong in gaming.

Modifié par Ispan, 19 mars 2014 - 06:16 .

[Gregolian]

Just out of dumb curiosity to posters like Ispan, Banxey, Nefla, Nuggins, and others because I am overly curious after finishing a BS degree in Political Science and as such ask inane and stupid questions.  What do you think of games with characters like this then?

 

I figure God of War is probably out of the question cause well, Kratos is a bit of a ass in multiple ways and I can even say that as a guy but what about characters like Dante or say Edward Kenway from ACIV?  Dante and Edward can both be a bit, well, dickish to those unlike them (hell, Edward outrights takes a **** away from Ade at the beginning of the bloody game because Ade is black).

 

Course, those genres of games might not be for you and I'm just asking a stupid question.

 

Our to throw this into characters from literature/movies/TV shows what about guys like Sandor or Bronn from GoT, Tony Stark, or Marty Deeks from NCIS LA?

 

IDK, maybe I don't understand the whole "dudebro" thing you are referencing.

[Nefla]

Personally when I think of a "dudebro" I think of that cookie cutter straight white male muscular guy with dark hair and stubble or beard. This very specific look was the archetype that focus tested best with young boys, and it's what game companies use for everything. When I see this I think shallow action game with no character development. I assume the "character" is only there to be the players hands which they use to shoot or stab things. This is not always true, sometimes this guy ends up developed into a believable character, but usually not. To me it doesn't matter if a character is a beacon of shining morals, or a flawed and selfish character as long as they are well developed and someone we can identify with.

 

JRPGs and other types of Japanese games have their own set of clichés and while I loved them growing up, I've long since put them behind me. I wouldn't want to see emo bishonen guy or innocent bimbo girl any more than I would want to see grunting focus test guy. None of those appeal to me.

[Banxey]

Just out of dumb curiosity to posters like Ispan, Banxey, Nefla, Nuggins, and others because I am overly curious after finishing a BS degree in Political Science and as such ask inane and stupid questions.  What do you think of games with characters like this then?

 

- removed pics -

 

I figure God of War is probably out of the question cause well, Kratos is a bit of a ass in multiple ways and I can even say that as a guy but what about characters like Dante or say Edward Kenway from ACIV?  Dante and Edward can both be a bit, well, dickish to those unlike them (hell, Edward outrights takes a **** away from Ade at the beginning of the bloody game because Ade is black).

 

Course, those genres of games might not be for you and I'm just asking a stupid question.

 

Our to throw this into characters from literature/movies/TV shows what about guys like Sandor or Bronn from GoT, Tony Stark, or Marty Deeks from NCIS LA?

-removed vid-

 

IDK, maybe I don't understand the whole "dudebro" thing you are referencing.

 

I'm not sure this question should be directed at me, because I typically don't use the term dudebro. And I'm not entirely sure it means what I think it means in this instance. Even so, I would be very, very surprised to hear anyone describe The Hound as a dudebro.

[mopotter]

I overwhelmingly gravitate towards games where I can make my own character of either gender over ones with a fixed protagonist, especially a dudebro. Unfortunately, even though almost every MMORPG allows this, most have no story/character depth/etc...

 

PS, if you ever decide to be social on SWtOR, I am on Almost all the NA servers :3

 

I overwhelmingly gravitate towards games where I can make my own character of either gender over ones with a fixed protagonist, especially a dudebro. Unfortunately, even though almost every MMORPG allows this, most have no story/character depth/etc...

 

PS, if you ever decide to be social on SWtOR, I am on Almost all the NA servers :3

Thanks.  I know a few other people, male and female that play, but I'll probably won't ever go social, but appreciate it.    I've noticed a panicky feeling in my gut when I experimented with the social option. Apparently I have issues, but who doesn't about one thing or another.  

[mopotter]

@DragonRacer

Sorry to say this but even knowing women/girls play games (just like you I don't think of say Dragon Age on par with candy crush) and acknowledging that fact I still find myself surprised when I hear that SHE plays games. Having lived through school and now at a university (where there were always more girls in the class/group - roughly 2/3ds) I have met 5 women/girls that did play games. Two of them were met while playing WoW and SWTOR. The other 2 played sims (somewhat higher up my ranking of games) and 1 is a "hardcore" gamer (games like dark souls/witcher/dragon age/skyrim - you get the drift.)

 

Funny thing is I feel happy to meet a girl that does like games as much as I do. Just throwing my lot into the bag. 

My step-daughter met her husband on some kind of gaming site, friends of friends who all lived in the area.  She didn't mention this when we met him, of course, knowing I'd worry about that.  They don't play as much, babies tend to get in the way of some things, but they do some.  

 

She's the reason I started playing back in the late 80's.  We got a game system so we could play on weekends and I started playing daily. Then played on my mac found BG and then got another game system and played Morrowind, KOTOR and now, most everyone at work knows I play and some of the faculty, students and alumni stop by and discuss what we are playing.

 

And on topic,  really one reason I think it's so important to market to everyone and have more good games with more options for the main character, is my granddaughter.  I don't want her to have to play a guy if she wants to play a good game.  I think it's getting better, compared to when I started playing, but it still has a long way to go.  

[Lady Nuggins]

I think it is true, though, that as a group, women and girls tend to interact with media differently from men and boys.  But I think taking notice of this would only benefit game companies.

 

I have noticed that a big difference between my male gamer coworkers and myself is that I tend to devote myself to particular franchises, while they tend to regularly buy the newest thing on the shelf.  I'm more selective, because I have a specific idea of what I want.  They are happy to buy the newest racing game every single year.  Many execs would look at that and say "well then, the male gamers are obviously going to make us more money."  But my male coworkers are not necessarily running out and buying all the merchandise that goes with each of those games.  They are not necessarily telling all their friends about each of those games.  They are not making cosplays and animated gifs and fanart for those games.

 

Online fandom has become a powerhouse driver of sales in the past ten years.  Shows that would not have done as well in the past because maybe they were too niche or didn't catch the attention of a more general audience have thrived because of core fandoms drumming up excitement through fanart, fanfiction, gifs, cosplay, etc.  And fandoms are largely female-driven.  They always have been.  I remember first taking notice of the Final Fantasy franchise back in the 90s because that's what everybody online was writing fanfiction about.  The only reason I put aside my dislike of shooting games to try Mass Effect is because of all the female-run blogs that kept talking about it.

 

For something like Dragon Age, which I expect will continue to put out games if this one succeeds, a strong fandom is just as important as a good marketing campaign.  How many female cosplayers are already making costumes based on the character kits released for DAI?  I feel that if they want to continue to nurture a strong fanbase that will buy not just the games, but the DLC, the books, and the merch, and keep the excitement up until the next sequel, they want to capture more female consumers.  It may not make sense for more disposable games like the racing ones, but it makes so much sense for Bioware games.

[Gregolian]

Personally when I think of a "dudebro" I think of that cookie cutter straight white male muscular guy with dark hair and stubble or beard. This very specific look was the archetype that focus tested best with young boys, and it's what game companies use for everything. When I see this I think shallow action game with no character development. I assume the "character" is only there to be the players hands which they use to shoot or stab things. This is not always true, sometimes this guy ends up developed into a believable character, but usually not. To me it doesn't matter if a character is a beacon of shining morals, or a flawed and selfish character as long as they are well developed and someone we can identify with.

 

JRPGs and other types of Japanese games have their own set of clichés and while I loved them growing up, I've long since put them behind me. I wouldn't want to see emo bishonen guy or innocent bimbo girl any more than I would want to see grunting focus test guy. None of those appeal to me.

 

So, a character like Marcus Phenix from the Gears of War series?

 

I'm not sure this question should be directed at me, because I typically don't use the term dudebro. And I'm not entirely sure it means what I think it means in this instance. Even so, I would be very, very surprised to hear anyone describe The Hound as a dudebro.

Cool beans.

 

I might be slightly out of my element here then.

[Nefla]

So, a character like Marcus Phenix from the Gears of War series?


Cool beans.

I might be slightly out of my element here then.

Yes, exactly. It works for Gears because of the type of game and the focus on combat not story, but if it's a story based, emotional, character driven game then that type of one dimensional character doesn't fit. What's worse IMO, is that if the PC is not a one dimensional cliche and not even a set personality/look/gender advertising will still push this same boring guy as if it's the only option and often people like myself and other women will pass it by thinking "it's just another generic FPS or hack-n-slash" and that is not something that interests me.

[Mes]

I think it is true, though, that as a group, women and girls tend to interact with media differently from men and boys.  But I think taking notice of this would only benefit game companies.

 

I have noticed that a big difference between my male gamer coworkers and myself is that I tend to devote myself to particular franchises, while they tend to regularly buy the newest thing on the shelf.  I'm more selective, because I have a specific idea of what I want.  They are happy to buy the newest racing game every single year.  Many execs would look at that and say "well then, the male gamers are obviously going to make us more money."  But my male coworkers are not necessarily running out and buying all the merchandise that goes with each of those games.  They are not necessarily telling all their friends about each of those games.  They are not making cosplays and animated gifs and fanart for those games.

 

Online fandom has become a powerhouse driver of sales in the past ten years.  Shows that would not have done as well in the past because maybe they were too niche or didn't catch the attention of a more general audience have thrived because of core fandoms drumming up excitement through fanart, fanfiction, gifs, cosplay, etc.  And fandoms are largely female-driven.  They always have been.  I remember first taking notice of the Final Fantasy franchise back in the 90s because that's what everybody online was writing fanfiction about.  The only reason I put aside my dislike of shooting games to try Mass Effect is because of all the female-run blogs that kept talking about it.

 

For something like Dragon Age, which I expect will continue to put out games if this one succeeds, a strong fandom is just as important as a good marketing campaign.  How many female cosplayers are already making costumes based on the character kits released for DAI?  I feel that if they want to continue to nurture a strong fanbase that will buy not just the games, but the DLC, the books, and the merch, and keep the excitement up until the next sequel, they want to capture more female consumers.  It may not make sense for more disposable games like the racing ones, but it makes so much sense for Bioware games.

 

This, this, this, a MILLION times this. 

 

So now the question is - do Bioware just ignore these facts? Is the marketing toward boys thing so ingrained that they can't progress?

[Gregolian]

Yes, exactly. It works for Gears because of the type of game and the focus on combat not story, but if it's a story based, emotional, character driven game then that type of one dimensional character doesn't fit. What's worse IMO, is that if the PC is not a one dimensional cliche and not even a set personality/look/gender advertising will still push this same boring guy as if it's the only option and often people like myself and other women will pass it by thinking "it's just another generic FPS or hack-n-slash" and that is not something that interests me.

So what about the first example I used?  Dante.

[Nefla]

So what about the first example I used?  Dante.

Anime/JRPG style characters don't draw me in either but for different reasons (mostly because I've played 9999 of them and I'm sick to death of most of them). I've played DMC 3 but only because a friend pushed me to borrow it. Not my kind of game. I was actually very put off by Fenris before DA2 came out because he looked like that anime JRPG stereotype (white hair, skinny, angsty, with mystical tattoos and a sword bigger than he is). Some game covers that appeal to me:

 

-The Walking Dead (Telltale, not...that other thing)

-Alan Wake (the one with Alan+ flashlight being the cutout in the "A")

-SWtOR and similar (shows multiple characters)

-Portal 2

-Alice madness returns

-Dark Souls 2 for the Xbox 360 (crouching dejected figure of unknown look and gender, good atmosphere)

-Elder Scrolls series, Saints Row series, others with just a logo or symbol. Will make me stop and go "what is this about?"

-Last of us (another good atmospheric cover with multiple characters)

-Heavy Rain

 

Some game covers that put me off:

-Every CoD

-Star Trek

-Assassin's Creed (all) (I like the first 2 games)

-SW Force Unleashed 2 (I like the actual game)

-Fallout 3 and NV (LOVE the actual games)

-Gears of War

-Bioshock Infinite

-Mass Effect 1-3 (though the alternate cover with the female version would make me curious if it had been visible)

-DA2

-Uncharted (all)

This list of covers that are all the same is too long so I'll stop here but you get the idea. 

[Ispan]

To start, I apologize for going waaaaaaay back to dig this thread up and, after this post, it can fall off the face of the Earth again.  I didn't want to start a whole new thread, but I experienced first hand a moment that shows why we do need to see the lady Inquisitor.

 

My sister is an avid gamer who plays a huge variety of games (tabletop included), but she and I most enjoy games in which we can create our own female protagonist (Fallout, Elder Scrolls, BG, DA, etc).  Years ago she played DA:O and most of DA2 but does not follow the development of DA:I in any way.  When the most recent trailer "Meet the Inquisitor" came out, I showed her all the trailers and screenshots on the DA site.  At the end she asked "Do you have to play as a man?"  My incredibly experienced gamer sister, who buys 15+ games per year, was given the impression that there was no gender choice when exposed to the game's mainstream marketing.

 

Thank goodness I guilt her into playing the games I like regardless of her initial interest in them!

[mopotter]

it would be nice to have a trailer with this in it:   https://scontent-b-o...608187057_n.jpg

[mopotter]

I don't know why, but I thought I could make edits.  Anyway.  The picture went with this from one of their facebook web sites.

 

Creating your Inquisitor begins with the first choice. Tell us if you'll pick Female or Male.

[dutch_gamer]

it would be nice to have a trailer with this in it:   https://scontent-b-o...608187057_n.jpg

It would also be better if that was shown on the DAI website. I can understand the latest trailer focusing on one gender because of the narrative but I dont understand why their site doesn't mention nor show a female inquisitor. I think Bioware's marketing for this game leaves a lot to be desired.

[Paul E Dangerously]

This, this, this, a MILLION times this. 

 

So now the question is - do Bioware just ignore these facts? Is the marketing toward boys thing so ingrained that they can't progress?

 

I'd wager there are a lot of things to consider.

 

- For one, I'd presume that Bioware wants to get back the (massive) chunk of people they alienated with ME3, DA2, TOR, which are primarily males in their 20s and 30s. Not that a vast majority of them care about the marketing or the boxart to a large extent or anything.

- Someone's got to do it. That means someone's got to take the time out to make the exact same trailer with a different character model twice. That also means you've got to have the voice acting and who knows what else ready. Not entirely sure how much effort that is or how much it takes away, especially right now when the game's still in development.

- Not knowing that an apparently significant portion of the people who might be interested in the game are unaware of damn near anything that isn't shown in a trailer. Or on a box.

 

For what it's worth, I like the approach Volition took with Saints Row 2, where one of the first videos was detailing character customization.

[mopotter]

It would also be better if that was shown on the DAI website. I can understand the latest trailer focusing on one gender because of the narrative but I dont understand why their site doesn't mention nor show a female inquisitor. I think Bioware's marketing for this game leaves a lot to be desired.

I think their marketing for all their games has left things to be desired.   It's irritating.  i think when I die, I'll go haunt a couple of them.  

 

@sopa de gato - would have much preferred starting with the character customization and then going into game play.  The customization is one of their best features, along with their writing.  

[Mihura]

I can predict the future like the seer in Vikings, so my prediction is that bioware is gonna to release in game screens or one trailer with F!Inquisitor next month or during September. 

The Special One as spoken.

[Karach_Blade]

My two coppers: 

 

I'm a transman and I have played females and males who are heterosexual, bisexual, gay, lesbian, asexual and pansexual. I always find myself close to laughing whenever some young guy in my age range whines that it would feel weird for him to play a woman, when female gamers have been stuck with only males to play for ages. Get over yourselves, dudebros. 

[Mes]

Right so when exactly are we getting a female Inquisitor? That can show people out there who don't stalk the BSN forums like we do that you CAN actually play as a woman if you want to?

 

Are we gonna get a teeny one right before Oct 7th?

 

My two coppers: 

 

I'm a transman and I have played females and males who are heterosexual, bisexual, gay, lesbian, asexual and pansexual. I always find myself close to laughing whenever some young guy in my age range whines that it would feel weird for him to play a woman, when female gamers have been stuck with only males to play for ages. Get over yourselves, dudebros. 

 

I love you for saying that. 

[Karach_Blade]

 

I love you for saying that.