9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

I always felt like it was kind of a horrible thing to do, too, because it's purely for cosmetic appearances. It didn't damage the tails, supposedly, just made them stick up so the hair would flow down like a plume. The horses can still use their tails to whisk flies away. I never rode that breed, but I did read voraciously about horses, so that's how I learned about it. I don't much like the idea of cosmetic surgery for people, either, (except in situations where it's done to repair injuries/disfigurements - elective cosmetic surgery is just too tied up in unrealistic standards of beauty for me to feel comfortable with it) but at least people can make a conscious decision to have it done.

 

I rode Arabian horses and then Quarter Horses and Thoroughbreds - no cosmetic surgery needed for them to meet their "breed standard," thankfully. :3

That's pretty messed up, like cutting off the ears and tail of certain dogs for cosmetic reasons.

[HuldraDancer]

I still don't get the ear ad tail things for dogs though I wished I still lived in an innocent time where I thought they were just born that way and not that someone lobbed off a puppies tail to make it 'breed standard' My uncle gets questioned a lot when he's going to do that to his dog since he has a breed that has it popular to do the ear and tail thing to, luckily he wouldn't ever do that to her that dog is like a second daughter to him :3

[ladyiolanthe]

I used to volunteer at a vet clinic, when I was thinking of going into veterinary medicine, and asked about the tail and ear docking procedures. In general, the vets I worked for weren't in favour of docking, except for certain breeds of dogs. The reason they gave for this is that we humans have bred some dog breeds to have such thin, bony tails, that they can actually acquire injuries just from wagging their tails, if their tails are left long.  :/ 

 

Speaking of injuries, I'm looking forward to the scars we can give our inquisitors, too.  I like Cassandra's scar and it makes perfect sense to me that a fighting woman would have some scars. Heck, I don't fight and I have a bunch.

 

Edited to add: The vets also told me they felt that dog ears should be left alone, unless the dog is prone to bad ear infections. Did you know that we have bred cocker spaniels to have such long, heavy ears that they are extremely prone to ear infections and often develop cauliflower ear? There was an elderly cocker spaniel patient who had had so many ear infections that the vets did amputate his ears to try to prevent him getting more.  The danger was that the infection could spread to the skull bones surrounding the ear and then he'd have been in serious trouble.  

[HuldraDancer]

I used to volunteer at a vet clinic, when I was thinking of going into veterinary medicine, and asked about the tail and ear docking procedures. In general, the vets I worked for weren't in favour of docking, except for certain breeds of dogs. The reason they gave for this is that we humans have bred some dog breeds to have such thin, bony tails, that they can actually acquire injuries just from wagging their tails, if their tails are left long.  :/ 

 

Speaking of injuries, I'm looking forward to the scars we can give our inquisitors, too.  I like Cassandra's scar and it makes perfect sense to me that a fighting woman would have some scars. Heck, I don't fight and I have a bunch.

 

Most reasons my uncle has gotten from owners with similar breeds (he owns a mix breed) is usually something stupid like their tails are always going and knock stuff over. If its for the animal's health I can get behind that 100% but for purely cosmetic reason not at all.

 

Same I'm hoping for something huge and nasty to put on my warriors and mages maybe some nicks on my rogues. I'm really hoping for something that maybe looks like a burn scar that would be amazing, I just pray they don't hold all the big scars away from the female characters and instead make them all those little ones that you have to stare at the screen for a while to notice them :/

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I agree about the big scars. It's annoying on games when you see they've saved all the gnarly scars for the male pc and you're stuck with just a few cute scratches.

When I made my second Shepard (still my favourite) I intended to make her ruthless and intimidating but after finishing her face I realised she looked far too cute to be intimidating. So I gave her a big scar that ran right across her face which really seemed to work.

[themikefest]

I don't mind scars on the character. Instead of having them on the face, how about seeing a scar or two on her arm or even one on the neck. I like the one Cassandra has. I'm curious if we will learn how she got that scar. It should make interesting conversation. The same with tattoo's. They make for interesting conversations.

[Lady Nuggins]

So to swing this more back towards DA:I, there's been a lot of talk on the forums about how the female companions tend to be human or elf and conventionally pretty, compared to the wider range of males.  Do you guys find this to be the case?

[Rune-Chan]

So to swing this more back towards DA:I, there's been a lot of talk on the forums about how the female companions tend to be human or elf and conventionally pretty, compared to the wider range of males.  Do you guys find this to be the case?

In Mass Effect I'd agree completely, not so much in Dragon Age and especially not Inquisition. But that could just be my personal preferences. It isn't that they are unattractive, but I wouldn't say they are "conventionally pretty" either.

 

I would say is that they are more willing to make guys more "conventionally unattractive" though. Whereas the "worst" you could say about the ladies is that they look normal.

[Nefla]

So to swing this more back towards DA:I, there's been a lot of talk on the forums about how the female companions tend to be human or elf and conventionally pretty, compared to the wider range of males.  Do you guys find this to be the case?

Most definitely! The only female character who wasn't conventionally attractive was Shale. The others range from model perfect (Morrigan, Leliana, Bethany, Isabella, etc...) to real person pretty (Aveline, Wynne). Even Wynne who is supposed to be elderly has a young, perfect face and body but with a slight wrinkle texture applied. If she'd had brown (or red, black or blonde) hair instead of white you wouldn't have known she was supposed to be elderly.  DA:I definitely follows this trend with all the female characters looking young and beautiful. It reminds me of modern Disney (and other cartoons) where male characters have a huge range of looks, some are handsome and dashing, others extreme featured for comic relief, still others frightening and monstrous, etc...while the female characters are different shades of pretty. (or the exact same shade in Disney's case)

[Gwydden]

Most definitely! The only female character who wasn't conventionally attractive was Shale. The others range from model perfect (Morrigan, Leliana, Bethany, Isabella, etc...) to real person pretty (Aveline, Wynne). Even Wynne who is supposed to be elderly has a young, perfect face and body but with a slight wrinkle texture applied. If she'd had brown (or red, black or blonde) hair instead of white you wouldn't have known she was supposed to be elderly.  DA:I definitely follows this trend with all the female characters looking young and beautiful. It reminds me of modern Disney (and other cartoons) where male characters have a huge range of looks, some are handsome and dashing, others extreme featured for comic relief, still others frightening and monstrous, etc...while the female characters are different shades of pretty. (or the exact same shade in Disney's case)

I don't really agree with this. Beauty is quite subjective, and "conventionally attractive" is a virtually meaningless phrase. None of the female companions in DA has ever stood out for me as incredibly attractive, really. And I would qualify most women I know as attractive in a general sense, even if not personally appealing.

 

And as a Disney fan, I feel inclined to say your reference is rather unfair. Disney stories are very idealized fairy tales. The heroes are beautiful and the villains... well, they're usually not. When the villains are attractive, is because that's somehow relevant to the plot or theme: the Evil Queen and Gaston are "beautiful" because their vanity is what makes them into villains.

 

I think this is just common sense. Children are not very skilled at interpreting subtle underlying messages. The easiest way to let you know someone is a villain is by reflecting it in their physique (this also counts for female characters: Ursula is a classic Disney villain and she's not really the ideal of beauty) and in the magical world, the heroes are all idealized.

 

All in all, as someone who's oldest memories are of spending all day watching Disney films, I've always considered the "princesses" much more interesting, heroic and relatable than their male counterparts. Belle is the only decent person in the entire movie, Ariel saves Eric life early in her movie, Nala kicks entitled Simba's ass repeatedly, and in Frozen all men are useless morons, greedy merchants, or ruthless backstabbers 

[Nefla]

Think about it though, where are the female characters with pot bellies, bulbous noses, exaggerated crooked features, etc...? With male characters exaggeration and extreme variety is common, with female characters it isn't. The female companions and important characters may not fit every taste perfectly but you can't say that if you saw someone who looked like any of them in real life you'd think of them as ugly or even plain. In Mass Effect the male aliens looked alien. The female aliens looke like hot human women with either a mask or a head piece. (Adding alien looking females was one of the good points of ME3)

[kukumburr]

So to swing this more back towards DA:I, there's been a lot of talk on the forums about how the female companions tend to be human or elf and conventionally pretty, compared to the wider range of males.  Do you guys find this to be the case?

 

I think this is definitely the case, although I would say the female companions are always more "normal looking" instead of necessarily pretty. They have less extremes than the male characters. You see this a lot in games with alien races, like KOTOR, SWTOR, and Mass Effect. Liara and Samara have very human faces and bodies, while Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, and Javik all look animal-like and have some very non-human features. Tali is the only female companion that seems alien, but even then her face is hidden (so it COULD look human) and her body isn't that weird. This extends to the robot companions too, with Legion having a flashlight for a head while EDI gets a human face, hair, and sexy body.

 

You see the exact same thing in SWTOR too. M1-4X is a droid with a male voice and doesn't look human at all, while Scorpio is a droid with a female voice and is essentially the same as EDI. Also, all the alien female companions have human faces and bodies. The male ones are much more extreme, including Yuun (a fly-person), Bowdaar (a big hairy wookiee), Guss (a fish-person), Qyzen (a lizard-person), Skadge (a big fat houk), Broonmark (a big hairy talz), Khem Val (a big scary monster), and Xalek (has a bone face).

 

Dragon Age is a bit trickier since all the races are very human-like, but I would consider qunari and dwarves (if only because of body size differences) the more extreme ones. So Shale and Sigrun compared to Oghren in Origins, Oghren in Awakening, Sten, Varric in DA2, Varric in Inquisition, and Iron Bull. So yeah, the Dragon Age games aren't quite as guilty of this as some other BioWare games but I would like to see more non-human/elf female companions. Hopefully we'll see some in the future.

[Gwydden]

Think about it though, where are the female characters with pot bellies, bulbous noses, exaggerated crooked features, etc...? With male characters exaggeration and extreme variety is common, with female characters it isn't.

Where are the male characters with pot bellies, bulbous noses, exaggerated crooked features, etc...? I honestly can't think of any, except a couple of very minor fat peasants in DAO.

The female companions and important characters may not fit every taste perfectly but you can't say that if you saw someone who looked like any of them in real life you'd think of them as ugly or even plain.

I can't think of any male companion or major NPC who I considered to be ugly or plain. Actually, I can't think of anyone in real life who I would describe with those terms.

In Mass Effect the male aliens looked alien. The female aliens looke like hot human women with either a mask or a head piece. (Adding alien looking females was one of the good points of ME3)

Male quarians don't look any more alien than female quarians to me. and asari are all female.

 

But I agree that some ME aliens could use more alien.

[Gileadan]

The two female companions in Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall come to mind.  Glory has a pretty face, but also two antique cyberarms that make her look half machine. Eiger is a troll. Not really ugly, but she's got tusks and an almost permanent scowl.

 

No potbellies though.

 

http://harebrained-s...run/dragonfall/

[Lady Nuggins]

I don't really agree with this. Beauty is quite subjective, and "conventionally attractive" is a virtually meaningless phrase. None of the female companions in DA has ever stood out for me as incredibly attractive, really. And I would qualify most women I know as attractive in a general sense, even if not personally appealing.

 

 

Consider this: all the female companions in DA:I could be closely compared to either actresses or models.

 

 

Vivenne = supermodel Alek Wek

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Sera = younger Angelina Jolie (somebody posted a good comparison photo in the Sera thread a while back, but I can't find it)

Spoiler

 

 

Cassandra = Morena Baccarin

Spoiler

 

And while I definitely can't argue that many people find each of the male companions attractive, there is much more variation with them.  There is simply no female equivalent to Iron Bull. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

I think this is definitely the case, although I would say the female companions are always more "normal looking" instead of necessarily pretty. They have less extremes than the male characters. You see this a lot in games with alien races, like KOTOR, SWTOR, and Mass Effect. Liara and Samara have very human faces and bodies, while Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, Grunt, Thane, and Javik all look animal-like and have some very non-human features. Tali is the only female companion that seems alien, but even then her face is hidden (so it COULD look human) and her body isn't that weird. This extends to the robot companions too, with Legion having a flashlight for a head while EDI gets a human face, hair, and sexy body.

 

You see the exact same thing in SWTOR too. M1-4X is a droid with a male voice and doesn't look human at all, while Scorpio is a droid with a female voice and is essentially the same as EDI. Also, all the alien female companions have human faces and bodies. The male ones are much more extreme, including Yuun (a fly-person), Bowdaar (a big hairy wookiee), Guss (a fish-person), Qyzen (a lizard-person), Skadge (a big fat houk), Broonmark (a big hairy talz), Khem Val (a big scary monster), and Xalek (has a bone face).

 

Dragon Age is a bit trickier since all the races are very human-like, but I would consider qunari and dwarves (if only because of body size differences) the more extreme ones. So Shale and Sigrun compared to Oghren in Origins, Oghren in Awakening, Sten, Varric in DA2, Varric in Inquisition, and Iron Bull. So yeah, the Dragon Age games aren't quite as guilty of this as some other BioWare games but I would like to see more non-human/elf female companions. Hopefully we'll see some in the future.

 

And lets not forget that picture of Tali you get under some conditions. Basically a stock photo of a supermodel with photoshopped 'alien' coloring.

 

Biowware does seem to have problems with depicting female characters at all.  All the alien species except Asari had 'lore' reasons why you don't see females. DAO had female Dwarves but in the 'Mass Effect'zation process DA2 went through Dwarves had to be only male because of 'reasons'. I guerss someonein th art department doesnt think Dwarves are pretty enough to warrent a female model. (I'm kidding, mostly)

[Chron0id]

Man, I just want to see the male Qunari Inquisitor.  I am very nervous about how Bioware decided to design him.  Did they go with the Slab Bulkhead approach or with something slightly sleeker?  I'm hoping the latter.   Then again, I suppose all Qunari males are supposed to be gargantuan Oxmen. 

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Man, I just want to see the male Qunari Inquisitor.  I am very nervous about how Bioware decided to design him.  Did they go with the Slab Bulkhead approach or with something slightly sleeker?  I'm hoping the latter.   Then again, I suppose all Qunari males are supposed to be gargantuan Oxmen. 

 

I just hope they don't look like this..

 

http://www.totalxbox...s-qunari-heads/

[Chron0id]

I just hope they don't look like this..

 

http://www.totalxbox...s-qunari-heads/

You and me both.  I cringed when I saw those images. 

[RevilFox]

Most definitely! The only female character who wasn't conventionally attractive was Shale. The others range from model perfect (Morrigan, Leliana, Bethany, Isabella, etc...) to real person pretty (Aveline, Wynne). Even Wynne who is supposed to be elderly has a young, perfect face and body but with a slight wrinkle texture applied. If she'd had brown (or red, black or blonde) hair instead of white you wouldn't have known she was supposed to be elderly.  DA:I definitely follows this trend with all the female characters looking young and beautiful. It reminds me of modern Disney (and other cartoons) where male characters have a huge range of looks, some are handsome and dashing, others extreme featured for comic relief, still others frightening and monstrous, etc...while the female characters are different shades of pretty. (or the exact same shade in Disney's case)

 

This is sort of a minor quibble, but I'd classify Aveline as handsome and not pretty. In my mind that makes her unconventional in the sense that most females are supermodel gorgeous. Certainly not the the extent of Shale or Iron Bull, but I think it's worth bringing up.

 

[snip]

 

And as a Disney fan, I feel inclined to say your reference is rather unfair. Disney stories are very idealized fairy tales. The heroes are beautiful and the villains... well, they're usually not. When the villains are attractive, is because that's somehow relevant to the plot or theme: the Evil Queen and Gaston are "beautiful" because their vanity is what makes them into villains.

 

I think this is just common sense. Children are not very skilled at interpreting subtle underlying messages. The easiest way to let you know someone is a villain is by reflecting it in their physique (this also counts for female characters: Ursula is a classic Disney villain and she's not really the ideal of beauty) and in the magical world, the heroes are all idealized.

 

[snip]

But this is a very problematic way to do things. By making all the bad people ugly and all of the good people attractive, you're subconsciously conditioning the viewer, often children, that ugly people are bad and attractive people are good. The fact that you even call it "common sense" is a pretty good example of why this is an issue.

[Gwydden]

And while I definitely can't argue that many people find each of the male companions attractive, there is much more variation with them.  There is simply no female equivalent to Iron Bull. 

You know a male Iron Bull is rare enough, right? I've never seen a woman nearly as muscular as he is, and I've seen some freakishly strong women. Biological differences between the genders and all that.

But this is a very problematic way to do things. By making all the bad people ugly and all of the good people attractive, you're subconsciously conditioning the viewer, often children, that ugly people are bad and attractive people are good. The fact that you even call it "common sense" is a pretty good example of why this is an issue.

But not all of them are. The Evil Queen, one of the oldest Disney villains, is beautiful. Gaston is handsome, and he's a dick. Those are obvious lessons in not going off entirely by looks, wouldn't you say? And attractiveness is still quite subjective, especially when you try to translate it from an animated setting. My point is that heroes look normal and taken care of, while villains look sleazy.

 

Again, I've never met any "ugly" people, so there's no conditioning to be had there. I think the lesson here is not "beautiful is good" but "good is beautiful", and that if you slap beauty into a villain, you're only adding extra vain to their evilness.

[Lady Nuggins]

You know a male Iron Bull is rare enough, right? I've never seen a woman nearly as muscular as he is, and I've seen some freakishly strong women. Biological differences between the genders and all that.

 

We're talking fantasy biology.  Iron Bull is so over-the-top in size that he does not resemble any human biology.  You won't find a real person with 2-foot horns, either.  And it's not just the size--Iron Bull is extensively scarred and missing an eye.  Meanwhile, the only scar on any female companion so far is Cass with her one thin little line on her cheek that actually accentuates her perfect cheekbones instead of marring her features. 

 

My point is that they are more willing to take risks with male companions than female ones.  Shale is maybe the one exception, but the fact that there had to be a big reveal that she's actually female undermines that a little.  They deliberately try to make the player assume that she's male for half the game.

[Gwydden]

We're talking fantasy biology.  Iron Bull is so over-the-top in size that he does not resemble any human biology.  You won't find a real person with 2-foot horns, either.  And it's not just the size--Iron Bull is extensively scarred and missing an eye.  Meanwhile, the only scar on any female companion so far is Cass with her one thin little line on her cheek that actually accentuates her perfect cheekbones instead of marring her features. 

 

My point is that they are more willing to take risks with male companions than female ones.  Shale is maybe the one exception, but the fact that there had to be a big reveal that she's actually female undermines that a little.  They deliberately try to make the player assume that she's male for half the game.

Good point. As far as we know, sexual dimorphism is still at play here, though, so there's really no reason to expect a female who is as muscular as Bull.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

This is sort of a minor quibble, but I'd classify Aveline as handsome and not pretty. In my mind that makes her unconventional in the sense that most females are supermodel gorgeous. Certainly not the the extent of Shale or Iron Bull, but I think it's worth bringing up.

 

But this is a very problematic way to do things. By making all the bad people ugly and all of the good people attractive, you're subconsciously conditioning the viewer, often children, that ugly people are bad and attractive people are good. The fact that you even call it "common sense" is a pretty good example of why this is an issue.

 

It is indeed problematic but, unfortunately, it fits reality. Attractive people have a far easier time than unattractive ones. Being not attractive myself, I certainly wish things were different, however, it does happen that way in real life. It's been happening for thousands of years too, so Disney isn't to blame, beyond propagating what is already happening inside our brains.

[naddaya]

We're talking fantasy biology.  Iron Bull is so over-the-top in size that he does not resemble any human biology.  You won't find a real person with 2-foot horns, either.  And it's not just the size--Iron Bull is extensively scarred and missing an eye.  Meanwhile, the only scar on any female companion so far is Cass with her one thin little line on her cheek that actually accentuates her perfect cheekbones instead of marring her features. 

 

My point is that they are more willing to take risks with male companions than female ones.  Shale is maybe the one exception, but the fact that there had to be a big reveal that she's actually female undermines that a little.  They deliberately try to make the player assume that she's male for half the game.

 

I just hope Cass will be buffer than the old standard female morph. At least a little bit.

 

It is indeed problematic but, unfortunately, it fits reality. Attractive people have a far easier time than unattractive ones.

 

Works both ways. Attractive people are often automatically labeled as dumb and stuckup, and it's hard to scrape off first impressions.