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[Sanunes]

I don't think I understand this sinister plot idea.

 

A completed female model or voice acting isn't necessary to add a piece of concept art and three words onto the website.  The website is already marketing a customizable protagonist and oodles of m!Inquisitor art has been circulating for months so I don't see the benefit in keeping the knowledge that you can play as a woman a secret.

 

We've seen many shots (screenshots and video) of Cassandra and Vivienne and one of Sera and Scribe Girl, but the most important woman in the game only exists in ~4 pieces of concept art.  A female model and more than a handful of companion armor sets have been shown off.

 

Also, after looking around for a long while, i found a mention of the Lady Inquisitor on the website in a statement written by Mark Darrah under news.  "To face this incursion and uncover those behind it will require more than any one man or woman could muster."  STOP SPILLING SECRETS MARK!!

 

It was just a feeling I got from a few posts that it the tone of those posts to me made it sound like BioWare wasn't listening to what people were asking for, it should have been in "air quotes" for I just couldn't think of another way to put it.

 

As far as print media and other media that isn't part of the videos i would agree it would be nice to have more diverse character demonstrations, but when it comes to the videos since they are being advertised to be done in-game, I just think there could be a lot behind what they are showing versus them just choosing the male Inquisitor for reasons.

[Brass_Buckles]

I was thinking about resurrecting this thread myself, but I realized it had been after I started getting "likes" for posts I'd made in it.

 

But yes, not everyone has Twitter--I don't--or Facebook--I also don't have that--so, we need to see Lady Inquisitor in the trailer and on the website.  And it can't just be as an afterthought.  She needs to be prominently there.  No five-second mini-clip, no tiny thumbnail hidden somewhere on the bottom/side of the page.

 

The ambiguous box art is a start, sure.  But we see Gentleman Inquisitor everywhere, and people will assume Box Art Inquisitor is a man, because they've seen no lady inquisitor anywhere, except if they happened to be following Dragon Age on Twitter.  Which is something that pretty much only existing Dragon Age fans are likely to do, let's be honest.  People seeking out information, who have never played a Bioware, or a Dragon Age game, before, are going to look at the website.  Many will not be scouring the Internet for news articles--and some women who might not want to be exposed to the horrible comments sections on most video game news sites/articles (which are notorious for being filled with misogyny and general idiocy) may avoid online articles entirely.

 

Whatever else you say about it, YES, representation of women in games is a big deal.  It's a VERY big deal.  Up to 40% of gamers are women.  Yes, that likely does include hardcore gamers.  I've run into lots of women who game when I was playing ME3 multiplayer on PC.  There are lots of us here on the forums.  You can argue that women are more likely to go to gaming forums, but I have found that, due to the hostility that usually exists toward women on gaming forums, the opposite is more likely to be true.  So, it seems to me that Bioware may actually, honestly have a larger-than-normal number of women who are fans and players of their games.  No, it's not just the romance.  When I first played a Bioware game (my first one was Dragon Age: Origins, after reading about it in Game Informer and getting excited enough to preorder, so I was late to start on Bioware games), I had no clue there was romance.  But I did know I could be a woman, and that was very exciting news.  DA:O wasn't what I expected from what I read in that preview article.  It was better.  At the time, it was the singular best game I had ever played, and being able to be a woman in it made it so, so much better.

 

So yes, it's important that it be made known publicly, in as many places as possible, that the player can choose a woman as their Inquisitor.  Choosing other races is also important information, but since there are no elves, dwarves, or qunari in the real world, whereas there ARE women--who are actually slightly more than half of the population, with a sizeable number of gamers among them--women need more representation in mainstream marketing.

 

I am personally straight, but I will also go out on a limb and say that there are probably LGBT people who would like some marketing thrown at them, too.  Some mention on the website, or trailers, that you could pursue a same sex romance, might be welcome to them.  It certainly didn't hurt with the Sims marketing when they did something like that.  Yeah, there will be jerks who will hate it, but... there are jerks who hate women, too.

[WildOrchid]

I am personally straight, but I will also go out on a limb and say that there are probably LGBT people who would like some marketing thrown at them, too.  Some mention on the website, or trailers, that you could pursue a same sex romance, might be welcome to them.  It certainly didn't hurt with the Sims marketing when they did something like that.  Yeah, there will be jerks who will hate it, but... there are jerks who hate women, too.

 

Yeah, i remember the ME3 Citadel DLC trailer showed some s/s scenes. I would appreciate it very much if we see some s/s alongside opposite sex in the upcoming trailers.

 

..... when they reveal the romances first ofc. Me is so scared of this.

[AresKeith]

Didn't someone from Bioware already saw they only have that one model of the Inquisitor and is still working on the CC to show off the others

[Mockingword]

How long does it take to make a passable character? I would've thought these guys were experts.

 

Ugh, I hope the creation system isn't too complicated. I hate tweaking the cheekbones and all that nonsense.

[Brass_Buckles]

Didn't someone from Bioware already saw they only have that one model of the Inquisitor and is still working on the CC to show off the others

 

And that precludes putting concept art of the lady inquisitor, and mentioning the possibility to be a woman as the Inquisitor in trailers or on the website... how?  All it takes is a blurb of a mention, if the assets are not ready to show yet, and once the assets are ready, they can be shown.

 

And for that matter, the assets were said to not be ready several months ago.  They are beginning playtesting now, so at this point it should be mostly polishing what's already there and getting rid of the biggest glitches.

 

How long does it take to make a passable character? I would've thought these guys were experts.

 

Ugh, I hope the creation system isn't too complicated. I hate tweaking the cheekbones and all that nonsense.

 

I hope it is richly detailed, so I can make my Inquisitor look precisely how I want her (or him, if I eventually decide to play a guy) to look.  I hate overly simplified CCs because I can never make my character look the way she should.

 

But that's not the topic of this discussion, and I think it has its own thread.  Can we please keep it to better representation of women in marketing for DA:I and Bioware games in general?  I don't mind if we branch out into better representation for LGBT in marketing, also, but specifics of the character creator aren't on-topic unless you're discussing it in terms of how it relates to marketing to women and/or LGBT.

[syllogi]

Personally, I want to see more of the male inquisitor.

 

Nudge nudge, wink wink.

 

We'll probably see Male White Human With A Little Bit Of Stubble Inquisitor in his skivvies long before we see in game evidence that female versions of the Inquisitor exist, judging by the marketing campaign so far.

[Nefla]

It's interesting, I looked at the same poll (will you play male or female in DA:I?) on facebook, twitter, and google+ (I think?) and most people said they would play female. The choose your inquisitor concept art is well done and is a step in the right direction, but I hope the next trailer will feature the female inquisitor alone just as the last several trailers and gameplay demos have exclusively featured the male inquisitor (even the one that only shows scenery features his voice). I would also prefer that femquisitor get her own unique trailer and not the exact same one as manquisitor but with the PC swapped. (like ME3)

[Mes]

It's interesting, I looked at the same poll (will you play male or female in DA:I?) on facebook, twitter, and google+ (I think?) and most people said they would play female. 

 

So now can we friggin get a female Inquisitor trailer?  

 

Like seriously how much evidence are they gonna need before they realize that yes this is something a lot of people want, men and women gamers both?

[Nefla]

So now can we friggin get a female Inquisitor trailer?

 

Like seriously how much evidence are they gonna need before they realize that yes this is something a lot of people want, men and women gamers both?

I know right? In 10 years we'll look back on this whole "straight white male is the only thing that will sell games" thing and laugh. Just as we now look back on ideas like "women can't be doctors, that's ridiculous!" For now the fear of breaking out of that safe zone and possibly failing is pretty strong for the majority of companies which sadly includes BioWare (though they are better than most).

[Mes]

 For now the fear of breaking out of that safe zone and possibly failing is pretty strong for the majority of companies which sadly includes BioWare (though they are better than most).

 

Yeah. And honestly I think the only reason Bioware isn't even bigger than it is right now is because they haven't done this properly yet. They're shooting their own selves in the foot.

[Momiji.mii]

I regularly have to tell friends and classmates that you can play as a woman in Mass Effect, despite the popularity of FemShep, so yeah, unless the Lady Inquisitor is marketed as much as the male one, a lot of people won't find out about her. Much less the choice of playing different races, which, when asked, is a huge reason as to why several of my acquaintances skipped over DA2. A female elf in the trailer would bring them back, I'm sure of it. 

 

Then there's the feeling of me and my fellow female fans being an afterthought, a less important part of the fanbase that will buy the game anyway and needn't be convinced with dashing trailers, but that's only my personal reflection, so quite possibly less relevant to the number crunchers planning the PR. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Could you provide me with a valid reason as to why BioWare should show a female over a male inquisitor in their trailers other than: ''Because.... Female!''

 

How about "Because it's almost never female?"

[Androme]

How about "Because it's almost never female?"

 

That's as valid an argument as: ''It's almost always male''.
I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats. Pick the gender that either makes the most sense in the context, or the one that is the easiest to work with for that particular type of advertisement content.

[Allan Schumacher]

That's as valid an argument as: ''It's almost always male''.
I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats. Pick the gender that either makes the most sense in the context, or the one that is the easiest to work with for that particular type of advertisement content.

 

I consider the argument "it's almost always male" to be a valid argument, however.  So yes, I agree that it's just as valid....

 

 

I didn't understand the "obsession" either, but I (think) I understand it better now.  I think it's easy for us to lose perspective when the advertising caters so much to us.  The odd time the advertising doesn't cater so much to us, it's a novel thing and not a big deal for us.  I can understand with the idea that it's a problem when the advertising almost never caters to a group of people.

 

For instance, what gender makes the most sense for Dragon Age: Inquisition?  What's the context?

[Felya87]

I'm one of those players who played Mass Effect much later and only because a friend of mine told me you can have a female character. No one is sayng to have a female as "testimonial" of the game. just a few words/picture about the chance to have a female and non human character.

 

I'm quite surprise those feature, who (at least in my eyes) make the DA series (yes, even DA2) better than the Witcher, two worlds, gothic series is almost never even mentioned. not even in the official site, where the players who don't know the game should learn more about the game, but in truth don't say anything about it!

It wasn't like this with Neverwhinter Nights! I remember cleary, in the box of mask of the betrayer, there where mention of races about the personalization!

 

It's a thing I can't really understand. I work with forniture. kitchens, bathroom, bed, sofas...the first thing that is marketed is the chance to personalize with different materials, colors, parts, and everithing else. because the appeal of having something "just like I desire it", or "like I need it" is very appealing to people.

[Mes]

That's as valid an argument as: ''It's almost always male''.
I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats. Pick the gender that either makes the most sense in the context, or the one that is the easiest to work with for that particular type of advertisement content.

 

Can you explain why you think having a male inquisitor makes the most sense in the context and/or is inherently easier to work with?

 

As for the artificial surface equality statement - I'd really recommend you have a thorough read of this thread. There are pages upon pages of detailed explanations as to why many of us feel that advertising more of the lady Inquisitor is a great idea.

[WildOrchid]

I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats.

 

Funny you say that, the people who make games already do that with male protagonists.

[Mockingword]

Lol. "Do what makes sense in context". As if ads ever gave a crap about making sense.

 

Bioware should market in whatever way will get them the most sales, since, you know, that's the whole point of marketing.

 

Showing a female protagonist and emphasizing the ability to choose your character's gender would likely attract people who like to play female characters, and I doubt it would hurt the game's appeal to people who play as males at all.

 

"Oh god, you can be a chick?! Gross, I don't want cooties!"

[Mes]

 

"Oh god, you can be a chick?! Gross, I don't want cooties!"

 

   

[tmp7704]

That's as valid an argument as: ''It's almost always male''.
I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats. Pick the gender that either makes the most sense in the context, or the one that is the easiest to work with for that particular type of advertisement content.

I don't understand why you had to downplay the concept of having equality here, with adding adjectives like "artificial". Or rather, I suspect I do but I'd like you to own up to it and try to explain it, if possible. It may help you realize you're quite wrong with this sentiment.

Regarding "picking what makes the most sense and is easiest to work with", either option is equally easy to work with, and makes just as much sense. That's why there's nothing wrong with asking for the choice to be a woman this time, if there's additional arguments for it, like the one Allan has offered.

[Nefla]

That's as valid an argument as: ''It's almost always male''.
I don't understand this obsession with forcing artificial surface-equality down everybodies throats. Pick the gender that either makes the most sense in the context, or the one that is the easiest to work with for that particular type of advertisement content.

It isn't "artificial surface equality" the game itself features equality, why hide that fact behind the same generic guy that is on every game cover since the 90's? A LOT of people of both genders want to play female, and the choice is not being shown. If you read the thread you will see that many people didnt know you could choose your gender or even customize your character because "iconic" generic male protagonists were being shoved down our throats at every step. As I said before, looking at the replies to the "what gender will you play in inquisition" on Facebook, twitter, etc...the majority of replies said female. Most of the people I know who play DA are female, there is a huge percentage of female players on these boards but the female option is still being treated as an afterthought. More people would buy the game if they knew they had a choice.

Is it strange that after being a loyal customer and fan for years to a game company that for the most part offers gender equality in their games (ME's sexualization aside) you hope to be told that you matter too?

[Little Princess Peach]

Games have been doing this for years be thankful we can play as a female in game I don't care less who they have on the cover all I care about is if I got my moneys worth

[Ispan]

Games have been doing this for years be thankful we can play as a female in game I don't care less who they have on the cover all I care about is if I got my moneys worth

I'd like for more women (edit: and men) to be able to appreciate this fact because they know it's in the game. It's hard to appreciate something if you don't know it exists.

Also, there's room for improvement. We don't need to give up and be satisfied with scraps from the gaming industry because it's better than nothing. I say from the gaming industry because Bioware is infinitely better than the gaming industry as a whole.

[Brass_Buckles]

I can't believe people exist who still cannot see the reasoning behind advertising the existence of a female protagonist in a game, when 40% of gamers are women and almost every single one of the women (and some of the men) who have posted in this thread have had personal stories about either themselves, or someone they knew, not wanting to play a given game until they knew they could play it as a woman.

 

That includes myself, when I read a Game Informer article about Dragon Age: Origins.  I have always been into fantasy themed games, and at the time I favored JRPGs but was growing tired of them due to their being increasingly generic/same-y.  So I was late to the Bioware party, I did not come for the romance, I came because I saw I could be a woman and it sounded like the experience would be different and interesting compared to playing a man.  I wasn't going to be forced to be the Generic Male Protagonist, like pretty much every other game ever made me do up to that point--except for maybe children's games or games made specifically for girls (which are, let's face it, usually pretty lame games with all kinds of glitches, control issues, etc. because obviously girls just aren't gonna care that much).  When you're coming from a background where even the "cute cartoon animal" protagonists are male... yeah.  It's refreshing to not only have a choice who to be, but to be able to be female, without having to play an MMORPG where you're going to be harassed just for having a female avatar, and even more so if they realize you're an actual honest-to-goodness woman behind the keyboard.

 

So yes, marketing is important, and the ability to choose female, or select your race, needs to be prominent.  Most games let you choose class. Some games let you choose race.  Only a very small number actually let you be a woman.  Even those of us who are already fans and will already play the game need this marketing, to make us feel like we are not an afterthought, like we matter to the developers.  And those who don't already play, will feel like they matter and are important because of this advertising to them:  HOLY COW I CAN PLAY A WOMAN IN THAT GAME?  I MUST BUY IT!  You'd be surprised how many of us feel that way...