9318 réponses à ce sujet

[oceanicsurvivor]

I think games need to start having two male a two female models for their players.

Male: One large ubermasculine build, well muscled and large. One lanky possibly wirey but not gigantic male.

Female: One, thinner, less curvy with maybe a b-cup. One with all the feminine curves and a c-cup.

Hmm Im torn about this. It leaves out so many people and ideals it might actually be worse if they did that? Where are the androgenous body types? The fat people? Everything in between? If you can execute what Saints Row does, or even Dragon's Dogma, then you're probably ok. If not, giving people a choice of avatars that represent a very limited idea of beauty would probably be worse to many people then offering no option at all. Obviously thats just my personal opinion though.

[SardaukarElite]

I'd like to see more body types, but I think fighters should always look like fighters, so a certain level of fitness should be present. Likewise stupidly over-muscled characters are out of place.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I have a B cup as well, and well I'd like my avatar to be more pronounced, not crazy D-cup but what is recognized by the most people as the most attractive cup size a C-cup.

 

... I wasn't aware that there had been some sort of democratic poll on this subject?

 

*looks down at apparently super crazy G-cup breasts*

[Nefla]

I have a B cup as well, and well I'd like my avatar to be more pronounced, not crazy D-cup but what is recognized by the most people as the most attractive cup size a C-cup.  As for your pic of attractive armor, it hides the curves and makes her look flat.  I'm not ashamed to have breasts.  While yes many of us women don't have much chest in real life.  Breasts are one of the features that seperate us from men.  That outfit makes Hawke look like a little boy to me.  I want to feel like a woman, not Peter Pan or some pedophile's wet dream.  I don't like playing men, and I'd rather a female avatar that does not leave room for doubt. 
 

Is bad enough due to animation limitations we are stuck with short hair in most games.  I'll feel really sad when the day comes we all have A cups, a mannish walk, and short cropped hair while wearing clothes that hide what little curves we have left...

 

 

The problem is, you are saying I can't achieve that ideal even in fantasy.  You're forcing me to be stuck with in game what I already have in real life.  Maybe I want to be able to feel physically beautiful for awhile, to escape my prison and become someone gorgeous. 

 

And no being fat does not, but not every female has that feminine body structure.  Some of us are just not that feminine, weight on or off doesn't change it.

 

As for trying to escape it in real life.  There are as seen here two sides to that coin.

 

For me you're forcing me into the same prison I've been stuck with in real life.  I want out, even if for just a little while, and even if in just a game. 

 

I...are you serious right now? You could have just left it at "I prefer my female characters to look sexy and show their stuff, even in armor, and think practical armor is frumpy or ugly" but instead you choose to insult women with smaller breasts and call them men or a pedo fantasy? Really? From where I'm sitting (36GG) almost EVERY woman would be a "man", including you and including the supposedly ideal C cup. Why do you feel the need to throw insults around?

 

You know why people in this thread want realistic, practical armor and moderate breast size in this thread? Because the vast majority of games cater to people like you. A supposed hardened female warrior has a perfect Victoria's secret body, always flawlessly styled hair and heavy makeup that never get messed up AND that has cutouts, cleavage, exposed thighs, etc...to the point where the armor doesn't actually protect anything. Meanwhile the male warrior has realistic full body plate and a helmet and looks the part. This is the very reason why so many gamers don't take female protagonists seriously, that hesitation by habit even bleeds over into female characters who look legit and not just a sex fantasy. I'm sure the mage armors will be form fitting and show the figure as they have in the previous games because it makes sense for cloth and makes no sense for metal plate.

 

Don't you realize you're perpetuating the very attitude that has given you low self esteem in the first place? Pushing the idea that the only way a woman can be is sexy and beautiful and perfect and coveted by men. We have enough out-of-touch men pushing this ideal, why on Earth are we as women helping them put us down? Why are we agreeing that we're nothing, that we're worthless if we don't fit an unrealistic expectation of beauty?

[HuldraDancer]

*sighs* Not sure why I'm saying anything I'm either going to mess up my words or not say it as well as someone else but here we go! There is nothing wrong with wanting your character to be sexy to you nothing there's nothing wrong with putting them in armor that probably would do jack all to protect them, but when its nearly every game its a problem. I don't think there should be any shaming of any body type  in this thread either its rude and can be hurtful. I got self esteem problems myself and used to think that my larger chest was the only thing that could be deemed attractive about me, so when I see threads like this it makes me happy. Makes me smile to see people wanting ladies to be treated as more than eye candy because they are more. Again I find nothing wrong with wanting your character to be sexy or pretty or whatever to you I make characters I find attractive all the time, but when it starts getting to 'this is whats beautiful this should be how every woman looks and this is what a woman has to look like otherwise they don't look like a woman at all' then that is a huge problem.  I'm a chubby gal and a gal with bigger cup size myself. I would love to play a character with some similar portions to myself especially the chest since I don't see many characters with my chest size that aren't being treated as sex objects but I'm not going to sit here and kick and scream because all the female bodies for the PC -may- be of smaller chest or we may never have armors that show off the chest. We don't know that much about the different types of armors yet so maybe its best if people calm down and wait and see? I personally would like a wide arrange of options for both genders like that, I have females that would rather be in nice clothes, females who want to be covered from head to toe, males that want good sturdy protection and males that want to go off into battle in a Conan get up. Options are a lovely thing shaming options and other people who do not agree with you or meet your ideal fantasy is not. I hope I made a understandable point but I apologize if this came off as gibberish. 

[Lady Nuggins]

The problem is, you are saying I can't achieve that ideal even in fantasy.  You're forcing me to be stuck with in game what I already have in real life.  Maybe I want to be able to feel physically beautiful for awhile, to escape my prison and become someone gorgeous. 

 

And no being fat does not, but not every female has that feminine body structure.  Some of us are just not that feminine, weight on or off doesn't change it.

 

As for trying to escape it in real life.  There are as seen here two sides to that coin.

 

For me you're forcing me into the same prison I've been stuck with in real life.  I want out, even if for just a little while, and even if in just a game. 

 

Nobody here is trying to force anything on you.  None of us have control over the game, the armor designs, or the options available.

 

I'm not against feminine options, by any means.  Feminine things are not automatically lesser than masculine things, and I am automatically critical of anybody who says otherwise.  I, for one, hope that they have not done away with mage robes because I always liked that some options involved a long skirt instead of pants.  I also hope that we'll get Orlesian finery, and the ability to pick between a fancy gown or fancy suit.  But I also don't think that femininity requires a break in realism or forced boob cups.  

 

My problem is how you have insulted my body, forced your ideal of what "beauty" means, and blamed the realism on those awful awful feminists.  You can state your preferences without any of that.

[AresKeith]

Meh I used the Amell Armor mods. Looked nice.

The mage armor would've sufficed but I played male Hawke and they decided to make his left arm an abomination in that outfit for some reason.

What does it look like?

[Ryzaki]

What does it look like?

Edit: let me link the female version since we're in Lady Quizzy's thread XD

 

 

Also Nefla Especially that last paragraph.

[Uirebhiril]

Don't you realize you're perpetuating the very attitude that has given you low self esteem in the first place? Pushing the idea that the only way a woman can be is sexy and beautiful and perfect and coveted by men. We have enough out-of-touch men pushing this ideal, why on Earth are we as women helping them put us down? Why are we agreeing that we're nothing, that we're worthless if we don't fit an unrealistic expectation of beauty?

 

I cannot possibly like your post enough. You have said everything perfectly.

[Uirebhiril]

For me you're forcing me into the same prison I've been stuck with in real life.  I want out, even if for just a little while, and even if in just a game. 

 

The only way anyone ever escapes that particular prison is by accepting who we are and living it to the fullest. No fantasy will ever change our reality, and trying to fit into one to make it go away for a little while is just perpetuating pain and alienation - not only in yourself, but others as well. You're stronger than that. We all are. And we don't need to fulfill the fantasies and expectations of others in order to feel better about ourselves.

 

I get that for you, it may be your own desires to look perfectly pretty or have revealing armor. It's just what has been expected from us for way too long, and many of us do not follow that desire. I make all of my characters some flavor of average in appearance because they don't need looks to save the world. They just need to be who they are. Just like the rest of us. We are so much more than our looks and size and how we walk or what we wear, which is why at the heart of it, we are all our own perfect.

[XMissWooX]

For me you're forcing me into the same prison I've been stuck with in real life. I want out, even if for just a little while, and even if in just a game.

But there are a vast number of games which allow you - no, *force* you - to play as 'the ideal woman', with perfect curves, a flawless face and who wears skimpy outfits. Games which never gave you a choice to be anything else.
Dragon Age is one of the relatively few games which gives you chance to play as something other than that ideal.

Perhaps you feel that you are unattractive in real life - and I get that because I feel unattractive in real life too. You want to play as an attractive woman in a video game - and I get that, because I want to play as an attractive woman in a video game too.
But so we, above all people, should understand that there is so much more to a person than what meets the eye. One person's 'ugly' is another's 'beautiful'. One person's 'manly' is another's 'womanly'. And one person's 'unsexy' is another's 'sexy'.

And I for one am incredibly grateful that Bioware allows me, and every other player, to play a female who is tall and large or short and stocky, with a sharp jaw, long chin, close-set eyes, heavy brow and numerous scars - the exact opposite of what a 'woman' is supposed to be, and yet *still feel like a woman*.

[Nefla]

The only way anyone ever escapes that particular prison is by accepting who we are and living it to the fullest. No fantasy will ever change our reality, and trying to fit into one to make it go away for a little while is just perpetuating pain and alienation - not only in yourself, but others as well. You're stronger than that. We all are. And we don't need to fulfill the fantasies and expectations of others in order to feel better about ourselves.
 
I get that for you, it may be your own desires to look perfectly pretty or have revealing armor. It's just what has been expected from us for way too long, and many of us do not follow that desire. I make all of my characters some flavor of average in appearance because they don't need looks to save the world. They just need to be who they are. Just like the rest of us. We are so much more than our looks and size and how we walk or what we wear, which is why at the heart of it, we are all our own perfect.

Beautifully said! (This thread is getting all my likes today)

There's nothing wrong with making the most of your physical beauty, styling your hair, doing your makeup, wearing flattering and fashionable clothing, but in the end it's all decoration. It's the wrapping paper on who we are and ultimately matters very little. You have to realize that YOU matter, not your breasts or your hair, you. You are precious, irreplaceable and one of a kind. Don't let others dehumanize you and don't dehumanize yourself. After you die no one will remember or care that your breasts were one inch smaller than you'd like, they will remember your intelligence, compassion, ingenuity, humor, any of the things that photoshop can't replicate, the things that make you who you are.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You know what would solve this problem? Body sliders.

Who knows, with DA4 most likely solely being on the XB1, PS4, and higher end PCs it may have it. 

[Gwydden]

The only way anyone ever escapes that particular prison is by accepting who we are and living it to the fullest. No fantasy will ever change our reality, and trying to fit into one to make it go away for a little while is just perpetuating pain and alienation - not only in yourself, but others as well. You're stronger than that. We all are. And we don't need to fulfill the fantasies and expectations of others in order to feel better about ourselves.

I get that for you, it may be your own desires to look perfectly pretty or have revealing armor. It's just what has been expected from us for way too long, and many of us do not follow that desire. I make all of my characters some flavor of average in appearance because they don't need looks to save the world. They just need to be who they are. Just like the rest of us. We are so much more than our looks and size and how we walk or what we wear, which is why at the heart of it, we are all our own perfect.

Why does everyone assume wanting to look a certain way is social brainwashing?

That said, it's extremely unhealthy to want to be something you cannot possibly be, so I agree with the essence of your advice. I would recommend her to appreciate her looks, and if approval is the problem, I guarantee someone somewhere will.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This current topic is making me feel uncomfortable. 

[HuldraDancer]

You know what would solve this problem? Body sliders.

Who knows, with DA4 most likely solely being on the XB1, PS4, and higher end PCs it may have it. 

 

I would love to have body sliders in future games if possible! That might be hard to do but it would be amazing~ Especially if it meant I could make my mages more lean than my warriors or rogues and give them less muscle. Or make them larger with less muscle yes that would be delightful~

[Bugsie]

Why does everyone assume wanting to look a certain way is social brainwashing?
That said, it's extremely unhealthy to want to be something you cannot possibly be, so I agree with the essence of your advice. I would recommend her to appreciate her looks, and if approval is the problem, I guarantee someone somewhere will.

Well I wouldn't call it brainwashing but the poster has said (several times) that she considers herself of average looks and likes to play (and I assume look as they mentioned they were bi) beautiful women. Where would those standards have come from otherwise?

I myself do want something attractive to look at ( in both genders I play) and create the best looking characters I can, but I don't want over sexualised outfits anymore than boring (IMHO) ones. Dragon Age allows me to do this.

@Ryz, that is gorgeous! Might have to play around with it!

[Nefla]

Why does everyone assume wanting to look a certain way is social brainwashing?
That said, it's extremely unhealthy to want to be something you cannot possibly be, so I agree with the essence of your advice. I would recommend her to appreciate her looks, and if approval is the problem, I guarantee someone somewhere will.

Everyone does not assume someone wanting to look a certain way is brainwashing, however measuring your value based soley on how you compare to an extremely rare (and to many unattainable) idea of physical beauty is almost certainly the result of social conditioning.

It shouldn't be a surprise that gender roles and expectations are perpetuated by the whole of society, not imposed by the one evil gender onto the other.

Those expectations are not the surprise, the surprise is the extreme reaction to anything short of utter perfection and the person failing to realize that this attitude is the very thing that led to her lack of self esteem and feelings of worthlessness in the first place.

Before you get excited, I never said anything about one gender being "evil." There are women who perpetuate negativity and unrealistic expectations towards their own gender yes, though it is usually directed at themselves. There is a large subsection of men (no, not ALL men) who very much push this ideal as the be all end all of femininity and the video game industry is especially guilty of this.

[Puppy Love]

I didn't really mean to insult anybody, I just am frustrated.  Dragon Age games are good, and long games, and I just...  want to be happy with the avatar I'm stuck with for literally days and weeks of playing.  I'm going to be looking at my avatar nonstop for a very very long time.

 

I don't need super revealing outfits.  Don't even want that really.  I just want outfits I find attractive or pretty.  Not even necessarily girly.  I've found 90% of the timw outfits are just ugly, the colors are terrible, there's weird stuff added, they don't compliment the body, they hide too much, or are completely bland.

 

Like mages, in too many games are we stuck in robes.  Why?  We can wear anything.  I'd prefer a dress myself.  No not a super revealing dress, but a dress non the less.  It always feels things are extreme.  Either in **** wear or in ultraconservative outfits, as if there is no middle, which is actually where I prefere it.

 

Seen too many games where the options are, covered head to toe in an outfit which hides most of the form OR wearing a bikini, midrift showing, and if you weren't wearing undies everyone could see your girly bits if you moved just so.

 

Why never something in the middle, a dress ends up either covering everything if it exists, or shows everything they can get away with.  Never is it just a pretty dress.  Always so extreme.  It frustrates me.

 

Also I understand dragon age is supposed to be somewhat gritty, but how about some color, please.  In the middle ages there was plenty of dyes and colors, heraldry especially was colorful.  Not everything needs to be mud brown and black...  (Yes I know that's an exaggeration, but it feels like it a lot)

 

As for the body type thing.  Let's just drop it, really I'll deal with whatever as long as I can find clothes that compliment whatever it is we have, and I have the option of having an outfit that looks just as good as the outfit anyone else has in the party.  Yes I'm a jealous girl, I will be most upset if I'm wearing what I think is an overconservative and drab outfit while the girl next to me is wearing something that compliments her form and is actually attractive and has style.

 

Same as I want to be the most powerful character in the party stat wise, I'd like to have the most presence as well.  I want to have style and personality, not just in character, but appearance as well.  I'm the type to decide my character would use say just as an example a hammer over a greatsword (not likely) and will horribly hurt my stats just to have that hammer throughout the game, only upgrading when I get another hammer.  I've bent over backwards just to have some style and definition to my character.

 

I'm just so tired of 90% of outfits being drab and ugly with only a few gems, you need to bend over backwards to keep on and use.

 

We look at our characters constantly if anything that ratio should be reversed.  10% of outfits should be drab, with the rest looking amazing.  I don't understand why so much effort is put into all these drab and boring outfits...  I don't want to suffer through 90% of the game I play for weeks to get some great outfit only statistically viable for 1/100th of the game.  It makes me really sad.

[Brass_Buckles]

I should point out here that with the customization options and possibly armor dying, bland colors shouldn't be an issue and you will hopefully be able to find an armor style to your liking.

 

However, I find it a bit unrealistic to expect armor other than mage robes to be anything other than bulky and form-concealing.  It's armor, it is thick and heavy and made of metal or leather or strange cloth-and-glue combinations.  Chain mail would even be baggy rather than form-fitting.  There's padding under it.  Granted, this is a fantasy game so if they really wanted to, they could still get away with things like cleavage windows and chainmail bikinis.  Of course I'd stop playing their games if they forced that on me (and maybe even if they included it in the game at all with any expectation of my taking it seriously--armor is for armor, not for looking sexy).  Even leather or lamellar (which can be made of cloth) would be bulky.  So yes, it would hide the feminine form.  Yet, I still have not found any of the lady Inquisitors shown thus far to be unfeminine, regardless of what they are wearing.  This is my own personal opinion, of course.

 

Now, for mage armor, or downtime gear, I'd be happy to have more feminine options.  Yes, part of me wants to gleefully run around in a cute dress in-game (even though I don't like dresses in real life all that well)--just not in combat.  I just dislike the idea of being forced to have eye candy armor that would ultimately be nonfunctional.

 

And having said all that, as long as we don't get boob cup armor again, I'd still be okay with some armor choices that are more form-fitting, as long as they still don't have danger zone cutouts.  Yeah, those bare midriffs and cleavage windows?  Not all that safe.  And boob cups could lead to a broken sternum, not to mention guiding the enemy's sword or spear straight to said sternum.

 

And yes, there is a certain degree of insult involved when you say you ONLY want that "ideal form" in the game--especially since I pointed out at some time, in one thread or another (perhaps this one) that even in the past century that "ideal form" has changed dramatically.  It's largely media-driven.  The 20s favored an androgynous, flat-chested sort of figure.  The 40s and 50s had a more Marilyn Monroe figure--curvy and not necessarily super-skinny.  The 80s favored a slim athletic form.  Currently we are wavering between the willowy, super-skinny-all-over look and the skinny-but-has-had-breast-enhancement look--large breasts on a skinny person is possible in nature, but doesn't happen often.  Any one of these appearances was extremely hard to achieve, and for many wasn't/isn't achievable at all.  So why are we told we should hate our own bodies, which we HAVE to live in, in favor of pursuing the current ideal form that most of us never can?

 

And yet, even though fantasizing about having one of those fantastic bodies says we're not happy with our own bodies, I can't fault anyone for doing so.  For starters, the media pushes us to think that's how we ought to look and tells us that beauty is everything for a woman.  And also... if we don't feel pretty, it's nice to imagine that we could be.   Still, it doesn't mean that anyone should be pushing their ideal onto others.  That's part of the reason I'm pleased with the variety of body types presented by the different in-game races--if we can't have body sliders, that's at least the next best thing.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm just so tired of 90% of outfits being drab and ugly with only a few gems, you need to bend over backwards to keep on and use.

 

 

I agree with you there. Never minding boob windows and bikini armor, the stuff otherwise available has been a bit ho-hum. But from what we've seen so far with Inquisition, I'm excited about the armor and clothing options. They look real, they look good, and it almost feels like you can reach out and feel the texture of the leather, or linen, or whatever else they are wearing. I am absolutely going to play dressup just to see what everything looks like.

[aTigerslunch]

I will catch up in a moment, on page 222 and want to comment, I love those pictures. The human female inquisitor looks like she is there to kick *** and chew bubble gum and out of bubble gum.    She is awesome looking. I love her. 

 

Dwarf, is that the dwarf inquisitor?!  If so, she looks great!  Anyone else take note of her scar?  I will find out when I read pages 223 and up and make comment after this post. 

[HuldraDancer]

I will catch up in a moment, on page 222 and want to comment, I love those pictures. The human female inquisitor looks like she is there to kick *** and chew bubble gum and out of bubble gum.    She is awesome looking. I love her. 

 

Dwarf, is that the dwarf inquisitor?!  If so, she looks great!  Anyone else take note of her scar?  I will find out when I read pages 223 and up and make comment after this post. 

 

For the bolded it is not an Inquisitor she is an NCP a new one at that. But it is still great to see a dwarf lady again isn't it?