Without marketing, nobody would know anything about Dragon Age. Just because you don't care about female and LGBTQ+ representation doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.
That's not my point, people outside of the ones already invested in the dragon age are getting the impression that all LGBT characters and the ability to play as female is just a way to grab sales more than anything.
That's not my point, people outside of the ones already invested in the dragon age are getting the impression that all LGBT characters and the ability to play as female is just a way to grab sales more than anything.
Or maybe they get the impression that hey! I can play like myself for a change, how exciting. You mean that straight guys are thinking 'wow look at this pandering to people who aren't me'.
That's not my point, people outside of the ones already invested in the dragon age are getting the impression that all LGBT characters and the ability to play as female is just a way to grab sales more than anything.
Who are these people? Why do they care about the presence of female and LGBTQ+ characters in marketing? Doesn't it make sense that more women and LGBTQ+ gamers will want to buy games they know will be giving them options they don't have most other places? If marketing downplays it, won't that make it difficult for those same gamers to even realize this game has good representation?
Guest_Danielle100_*
I don't think the Human Noble and Dalish background will be identical to their counterparts in Origins. I understand that other origins were your preference, but you might end up liking them or at least one come fall
It's not that. It's just the backstories we have a very constricting for me, and I don't like that. At best I can do 2 different playthroughs for the Elf and 3 for human. The fact that those races are the only ones with the kind of facial and body structure I wish my Inquisitors to have makes it worse.
It's not that. It's just the backstories we have a very constricting for me, and I don't like that. At best I can do 2 different playthroughs for the Elf and 3 for human. The fact that those races are the only ones with the kind of facial and body structure I wish my Inquisitors to have makes it worse.
Hm, I guess I don't know as much about the backstory set up as I thought. Could we take this to PM to clarify? (if you want)
Hm, I guess I don't know as much about the backstory set up as I thought. Could we take this to PM to clarify? (if you want)
Sure, fire me one.
If there's actual information on back stories I'd like to know it too.
If there's actual information on back stories I'd like to know it too.
It's not that much, just the basic outline.
The Dwarf is a Surface Dwarf( of the Cadash House aka Shayle's family).
The Elf is a Dalish Elf.
The Human is a noble from the Free Marches(and sent to the Circle if a Mage).
The Qunari is a Vashoth(who were born outside of the Qun).
About the lady dwarf is the Inquisitor standing on higher ground than her cause she looks a lot smaller than I remember dwarfs being. Though I'm not complaining I'm happy to see a dwarf of the female variety again. I hope we get to see Sheryl Chee's dwarf Inquisitor I heard she has scars and a freckles!
Is looking like I'll probably be playing a dwarf, if I can manage a cute face anyway.
Who are these people? Why do they care about the presence of female and LGBTQ+ characters in marketing? Doesn't it make sense that more women and LGBTQ+ gamers will want to buy games they know will be giving them options they don't have most other places? If marketing downplays it, won't that make it difficult for those same gamers to even realize this game has good representation?
I was just talking about the presentation where he was talking about the "human female inquisitor." It's the tone that he said it in that gave me the impression he was going "Oh look, BSN and world, we are so good for listening, pat us on the head." And then going, we're done now.
I'm just saying it's absurd that there are 200+ pages and multiple posts on what the female should look like in a place where supposedly purely superficial considerations are a bad way to sum up a character.
Doesn't look good to me. You are trying to pull out a bias or theme of hatred and I'm saying if there wasn't any to begin with Bioware comes off looking like an ass.
I was just talking about the presentation where he was talking about the "human female inquisitor." It's the tone that he said it in that gave me the impression he was going "Oh look, BSN and world, we are so good for listening, pat us on the head."
I personally DON'T care, it's the fact that Bioware apparently DOES that bothers me. Like in DA: Origins, when I'm playing basically not thinking anything in particular and all of a sudden characters go "I'm a woman, and I'm the toughest one here." Bioware assumes the player is somehow already holding that bias and that it needs to be dispelled, all they end up doing is create the bias.
And what options does a woman have in this game that they don't have elsewhere exactly? To be honest, the options are more extensive in most games.
And what if I disagree that it is in fact a "good" representation?
And why is a thread about the female run/walk animation at 8 pages and counting? I'm just saying it's absurd that there are 200+ pages on what the female should look like in a place where supposedly superficial considerations are bad.
BSN DOES care. Many women DO care. We sent them cupcakes actually. 
It may not be a big deal to you, but it is to many people. Enough that we actually funded and organized to get the team at Edmonton cupcakes as a thank you for putting FemInquisitor on display at E3.
Options I have as a woman that I have in very few other games: I can play as myself. Myself with short hair. Myself as a lesbian. Myself in awesome gender neutral armor. Myself as the leader of a tight nit group of ragtag followers who saves the world. Myself as a sarcastic badass Qunari.
Gender Neutral Armor?
It's gender neutral everything which is why I'm always stuck in robes rather than getting a dress...
Which is why to a degree guys complaining that they want mage pants cause they don't want to wear a dress annoys me. They aren't wearing a dress anymore than my character is wearing pants. Neither of us are wearing a dress, robes aren't even close to a dress. We're both not getting what we want.
Some women, believe it or not want female options. I'm not a tom boy, I'm a girly girl, I like pretty dresses, I like traditional female outfits. Everything being gender neutral means I can't have anything gender specific, as if there's something wrong with not wearing the same thing as a guy.
If you really want true gender neutral outfits, then anytime a man shows his chest, my girl should be topless as well in the same outfit. That's not going to happen, is a silly idea. There are clothes women wear that men really don't typically and vice versa. Wearing those types of outfits is not wrong in any way.
Equal does not necessarily mean the same. I think this is really where my real problem comes from. Not really the breast size, or anything like that, but the push towards sameness and equivalency through being closer to identical to the male icon. I don't want to dress like a male character, I have no interest in gender neutral outfits. I don't wear them unless I have to. I proudly wear dresses and skirts. I don't want this sameness in all respects everyone keeps pushing for. Is there really something wrong with wanting some drastically female and male only outfits?
BSN DOES care. Many women DO care. We sent them cupcakes actually.
Why is the linchpin simply her appearance though? I initially came to this thread because I was thinking they were talking about a femshep type of trailer, where it was her 'personality,' the mere fact that she shows up in bodily form is triggering so much attention and affection is again, the main issue I've focused on.
I edited it later, I wasn't saying I DON'T care about female representation, that's not my point at all, I just don't care about the purely, oh look, a female character shows up, therefore it's fine. I want to know the personality and all this stuff.
Anyway, the whole point was just about female inquisitor and the endless barrage of obsessing over her walk or hair or whatever, when all I'm saying is if there was someone that was a genuinely female personality, that is much more important than how she walks or what she looks like.
Gender Neutral Armor?
It's gender neutral everything which is why I'm always stuck in robes rather than getting a dress...
Which is why to a degree guys complaining that they want mage pants cause they don't want to wear a dress annoys me. They aren't wearing a dress anymore than my character is wearing pants. Neither of us are wearing a dress, robes aren't even close to a dress. We're both not getting what we want.
Some women, believe it or not want female options. I'm not a tom boy, I'm a girly girl, I like pretty dresses, I like traditional female outfits. Everything being gender neutral means I can't have anything gender specific, as if there's something wrong with not wearing the same thing as a guy.
If you really want true gender neutral outfits, then anytime a man shows his chest, my girl should be topless as well in the same outfit. That's not going to happen, is a silly idea. There are clothes women wear that men really don't typically and vice versa. Wearing those types of outfits is not wrong in any way.
Equal does not necessarily mean the same. I think this is really where my real problem comes from. Not really the breast size, or anything like that, but the push towards sameness and equivalency through being closer to identical to the male icon. I don't want to dress like a male character, I have no interest in gender neutral outfits. I don't wear them unless I have to. I proudly wear dresses and skirts. I don't want this sameness in all respects everyone keeps pushing for. Is there really something wrong with wanting some drastically female and male only outfits?
Bear in mind that historically speaking not being equal has frequently meant cutting large segments out of the chest area of heavy armour, the chainmail bikini and a host of other interesting design choices. When you see people pushing for the same armour, perhaps think of it more as wanting their armour options to be equally protective and less like a representation of the phrase 'get your ****** out for the lads' done in heavy metal. Yes, I mostly play warrior classes, someone else will have to make the case for light/medium armour.
Gender Neutral Armor?
It's gender neutral everything which is why I'm always stuck in robes rather than getting a dress...
Which is why to a degree guys complaining that they want mage pants cause they don't want to wear a dress annoys me. They aren't wearing a dress anymore than my character is wearing pants. Neither of us are wearing a dress, robes aren't even close to a dress. We're both not getting what we want.
Some women, believe it or not want female options. I'm not a tom boy, I'm a girly girl, I like pretty dresses, I like traditional female outfits. Everything being gender neutral means I can't have anything gender specific, as if there's something wrong with not wearing the same thing as a guy.
If you really want true gender neutral outfits, then anytime a man shows his chest, my girl should be topless as well in the same outfit. That's not going to happen, is a silly idea. There are clothes women wear that men really don't typically and vice versa. Wearing those types of outfits is not wrong in any way.
Equal does not necessarily mean the same. I think this is really where my real problem comes from. Not really the breast size, or anything like that, but the push towards sameness and equivalency through being closer to identical to the male icon. I don't want to dress like a male character, I have no interest in gender neutral outfits. I don't wear them unless I have to. I proudly wear dresses and skirts. I don't want this sameness in all respects everyone keeps pushing for. Is there really something wrong with wanting some drastically female and male only outfits?
I have no problem with people who want to wear dresses and skirts. 
However, thats not for me personally.And in more then just video games that type of dress has been pushed on me time and time again. So no, there is nothing wrong with wanting and enjoying dressing like that. But theres nothing wrong with finding it refreshing to NOT be forced into it either. And again, it doesn't have much at all to do with male vs. female, there should just be a wide variety of options for gender expression for EVERYONE playing.
Why is the linchpin simply her appearance though? I initially came to this thread because I was thinking they were talking about a femshep type of trailer, where it was her 'personality,' the mere fact that she shows up in bodily form is triggering so much attention and affection is again, the main issue I've focused on.
I edited it later, I wasn't saying I DON'T care about female representation, that's not my point at all, I just don't care about the purely, oh look, a female character shows up, therefore it's fine. I want to know the personality and all this stuff like in the femshep trailer.
Many people throughout this thread have said they did not play the game till they knew they could play as a woman. She was however absent from the marketing almost entirely until E3. Showcasing her at E3 was a big shiny beacon to all female gamers and the media etc that 'hey in case you didn't know, we want you to be able to play our game your way'. Especially when women were being excluded from other huge titles at the same show. I want to see a lot more of her, I want to know what kind of sarcastic response options I have etc/more about personality too. But her inclusion, at all, was very fundamentally important to a lot of people.
I get really frustrated with the, if this/then must be also true scenario.
If for me to get a dress, requires a male to also get a dress. It means I can never get a dress because we're no where near a point where a male pc is going to be wearing a dress.
I feel like in the effort to become equal we're losing the ability to celebrate our differences, or enjoy things that are traditionally ours. I feel like I'm being told to be equal to a man I need to dress, act and move like a man. Gender neutral is a misnomer as really there is very little male only clothing to compare to female only clothing. What gender neutral really comes down to is no feminine clothing, not really gender neutral. Is really can only wear clothes men can wear too.
Is just something that really depresses me. I championed for pretty dresses in more games than I can count... I just want my dress 
Anyway, the whole point was just about female inquisitor and the endless barrage of obsessing over her walk or hair or whatever, when all I'm saying is if there was someone that was a genuinely female personality, that is much more important than how she walks or what she looks like.
Talking about personality is ard since the player is in control of that aspect of the character. Hence why people tend to talk about things out of their control.
I get really frustrated with the, if this/then must be also true scenario.
If for me to get a dress, requires a male to also get a dress. It means I can never get a dress because we're no where near a point where a male pc is going to be wearing a dress.
I feel like in the effort to become equal we're losing the ability to celebrate our differences, or enjoy things that are traditionally ours. I feel like I'm being told to be equal to a man I need to dress, act and move like a man. Gender neutral is a misnomer as really there is very little male only clothing to compare to female only clothing. What gender neutral really comes down to is no feminine clothing, not really gender neutral. Is really can only wear clothes men can wear too.
Is just something that really depresses me. I championed for pretty dresses in more games than I can count... I just want my dress
If you want a dress than I think ALL body types available in game should have access. And I disagree that we are so far away from letting male pc's wear dresses. Saints Row does it for instance. It is not unheard of.
'Tradtionally ours' as in exclusionary to trans people and non-binary individuals? In the same sentence as celebrate our differences? Allowing everyone to have access to the same things actually lets you celebrate your differences. Then you and I could both be female PC's playing how we want, instead of one of us being kinda happy and the other upset.
The problem is we don't get pretty dresses often. We usually get full body covering, or outfits that barely cover anything. I don't want either of those. Real pretty clothes in the middle of these two extremes is so rare. Everyone seems to think I'm asking for over sexuallized clothes. I'm asking for some frills, something feminine and pretty. If/when there is skin showing, it's complimentary to the character, not just to say look at my boobies, but because it looks nice and goes with the outfit.
The problem is we don't get pretty dresses often. We usually get full body covering, or outfits that barely cover anything. I don't want either of those. Real pretty clothes in the middle of these two extremes is so rare. Everyone seems to think I'm asking for over sexuallized clothes. I'm asking for some frills, something feminine and pretty. If/when there is skin showing, it's complimentary to the character, not just to say look at my boobies, but because it looks nice and goes with the outfit.
More like what you see in a lot of MMOs where you often get a far more extensive range of clothing?
I feel like I'm being told to be equal to a man I need to dress, act and move like a man. Gender neutral is a misnomer as really there is very little male only clothing to compare to female only clothing. What gender neutral really comes down to is no feminine clothing, not really gender neutral. Is really can only wear clothes men can wear too.
Is just something that really depresses me. I championed for pretty dresses in more games than I can count... I just want my dress
You are simply in the minority here, that's all there is to it. I was saying it would be interesting just to have a "traditional female" with some kind of traditional presentation and was promptly eviscerated for pages upon pages. Unless she breathes fire and angrily slices off one half her hair, of course.
Whatever clothes you put out there or whatever is guaranteed to offend someone, and honestly if you only have one chance I would go with the more 'standard' approach. (Standard hopefully not being as destructive) You win out in the long term and universally.
Transexual women ARE women not just men in a dress. They don't grow a beard and walk around in a dress usually, not if they're really serious about it. The goal of a transwoman is to pass and hopefully become physically a woman. Which is a lot more than just throwing on a dress. Even transvestites hope to pull it off and look like a girl, not like a man with a dress tossed on.
A transwoman wearing a dress as a male is in transition, and it's a hurtful place to be. They want to transition and be a woman, not a man in a dress. A transwoman will play a female character because is who they are, what they want to be. Not a man wearing a dress.
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