9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Krytie]

Should I add that when it comes to actually purchasing games, women are the majority of spenders? Aside from buying for themselves, they buy for their kids, their spouses, their siblings, etc?

 

So marketing to females actually makes more sense than not.

 

Just because marketing is run by old dudes who influence the new dudes to do everything the way the old dudes did, doesn't mean that marketing towards women would be a waste of money or ineffective. Just as long as the ads aren't condescending, sexist, and misogynist, you could probably pick up a lot of new customers.

[Steelcan]

Should I add that when it comes to actually purchasing games, women are the majority of spenders? Aside from buying for themselves, they buy for their kids, their spouses, their siblings, etc?

 

Can we get a source on that?

 

I don't necessarily disagree that women buy a lot of games, but that seems like stretching it a bit.

[themikefest]

Just my personal observation. When I'm at a store that carries video games, I usually see more women than men  buying them, whether its for themselves or for their children or for their spouse I don't know.

[Darth Krytie]

Can we get a source on that?

 

I don't necessarily disagree that women buy a lot of games, but that seems like stretching it a bit.

 

I only grabbed four, but there are more than that...One is more anecdotal than the others. I will try to find the other sources.

 

http://www.trendsigh...nt/view/40/204/

 

http://venturebeat.c...games-are-next/

 

http://www.ibtimes.c...g-casual-517475

 

 

http://allthingsd.co...-tech-than-men/

 

(So, I was a tiny bit off by saying games instead of tech overall, but not by much. And the point still stands)

[Stelae]

Be at ease. The female gamer is not being ignored. The content in games are designed specifically for the people who will actually play them, which is not the people who buy them. You are a female gamer, not a BioWare customer.

 

First of all, don't tell me to calm down; it makes you sound patronising.  And second, I''m a female gamer AND a Bioware customer.  Who do you think lays out her money to buy the games I play?  My mother? According to the most recent ESA study, 45% of the people who most frequently buy games are women. 

 

 

Accept it or not, but this is a business. A business needs to make money. To make money, the business needs to gain customers, and to expand that they need to hold the ones they already have.

 

And the fastest growing demographic of frequent gamers is women over 35.  So aiming a bit of advertising their way (not all of it, but it seems to me that the established gaming market is already pretty well served by Bioware's advertising policies) is a shrewd business move. 

[Steelcan]

I can point out several flaws in those articles, namely the focus on gaming as a whole including mobile gaming, which isn't as relevant to this discussion.

 

Do you have any sources for hard numbers on numbers of men vs women who buy a variety of console games?

 

 

I'd be very interested to see the rates for Mass Effect 3, Red Dead Redemption, and Tomb Raider so you hit all three categories of protagonist gender.

 

I know that the majority of Mass Effect players were male (or there were A LOT of women playing as MaleShep) from BioWare's own statistics on it.

[Darth Krytie]

I can point out several flaws in those articles, namely the focus on gaming as a whole including mobile gaming, which isn't as relevant to this discussion.

 

Do you have any sources for hard numbers on numbers of men vs women who buy a variety of console games?

 

 

I'd be very interested to see the rates for Mass Effect 3, Red Dead Redemption, and Tomb Raider so you hit all three categories of protagonist gender.

 

I know that the majority of Mass Effect players were male (or there were A LOT of women playing as MaleShep) from BioWare's own statistics on it.

 

I don't have anything that specific at hand, but I'll look. I know I read an article before, on one of the sites I frequent, but it still looked at gaming industry as a whole.

 

I'd be interested, too, in that sort of very specific data. 

 

There's still enough data, imperfect though it is, in the articles I found to suggest that marketing specifically to women would be a smart business plan. Given that these statistics suggest an upward trajectory of women buying/playing more games, both mobile and console types.

[Steelcan]

There's still enough data, imperfect though it is, in the articles I found to suggest that marketing specifically to women would be a smart business plan. Given that these statistics suggest an upward trajectory of women buying/playing more games, both mobile and console types.

I'm inclined to agree, but let me play devil's advocate

 

 

How much of this spending is coming from women buying for men?

 

Its entirely possible that this isn't a large factor, but I personally have noticed when I see women buying games they often have kids with them and are buying an M rated game for them.  Once I saw a clearly oblivious mother buy her child, who couldn't have been more than 12, God of War 1,2,3, and Assassin's Creed 2.  None of those games are geared towards women or marketed towards them, yet a woman was buying them. 

[Darth Krytie]

I'm inclined to agree, but let me play devil's advocate

 

 

How much of this spending is coming from women buying for men?

 

Its entirely possible that this isn't a large factor, but I personally have noticed when I see women buying games they often have kids with them and are buying an M rated game for them.  Once I saw a clearly oblivious mother buy her child, who couldn't have been more than 12, God of War 1,2,3, and Assassin's Creed 2.  None of those games are geared towards women or marketed towards them, yet a woman was buying them. 

 

That women buy for others was a part of my initial argument. It's still an important factor to consider, if they're the ones doing the shopping. Women get into gaming for their kids and their SOs all the time. Trina, my kid, got me into Pokemon. I now buy a game for her and a game for me. So, to say that it's not an untapped market is untrue.

[Steelcan]

That women buy for others was a part of my initial argument. It's still an important factor to consider, if they're the ones doing the shopping. Women get into gaming for their kids and their SOs all the time. Trina, my kid, got me into Pokemon. I now buy a game for her and a game for me. So, to say that it's not an untapped market is untrue.

To steer it back towards consoles, what about the games I mentioned, how would you make a game like God of War which has intense masculine overtones appeal to women?

 

Or do you just cut your losses on that and throw the ad money towards a more solid demographic?

[Mes]

I'm inclined to agree, but let me play devil's advocate

 

 

How much of this spending is coming from women buying for men?

 

 

I knew this would come up.

 

Any time there's a statistic or anecdote that pertains to women actually being a large part of the gaming community, someone always has to come in and say "BUT" to try to invalidate it.

 

What's so awful about women and gaming?

 

And you know what, let's say for argument's sake that there aren't as many female gamers as there are male. That's probably 100% due to the lack of appropriate advertising, rather than gaming being inherently a male activity.

 

Advertise better, for both men and women, and both groups will buy more games.

 

Easy.

[Steelcan]

I knew this would come up.

 

Any time there's a statistic or anecdote that pertains to women actually being a large part of the gaming community, someone always has to come in and say "BUT" to try to invalidate it.

 

What's so awful about women and gaming?

 

And you know what, let's say for argument's sake that there aren't as many female gamers as there are male. That's probably 100% due to the lack of appropriate advertising, rather than gaming being inherently a male activity.

 

Advertise better, for both men and women, and both groups will buy more games.

 

Easy.

That's why I said I was playing Devil's advocate

 

and how would you advertise games that are intensely masculine in focus like God of War to women?

[Mes]

To steer it back towards consoles, what about the games I mentioned, how would you make a game like God of War which has intense masculine overtones appeal to women?

 

Or do you just cut your losses on that and throw the ad money towards a more solid demographic?

 

God of war is in an entirely different basket, mainly because there's a set male protagonist.

 

There's no shame in some games being advertised solely for men, like God of War (which I've incidentally played anyway and enjoyed).

 

The problem is that most games seem to be advertised with just the male consumer in mind. It's particularly odd for Bioware which consistently puts out games where you can choose the gender of your protagonist.

[Lady Nuggins]

 

I know that the majority of Mass Effect players were male (or there were A LOT of women playing as MaleShep) from BioWare's own statistics on it.

 

I don't think solid conclusions can be drawn from this, because:

 

1. Only 18% of those who finished ME3, at the time those stats were compiled, played as female.  There is no word on how many picked up the game, played as femshep, and did not finish it (at least not before those stats were compiled).

2. Many women do choose to play as male, even when female is an option, just as many men choose to play as female.

3. As many of us have been saying, the lack of awareness of Femshep's existance meant that many women only picked up the game after they learned about her through word of mouth.  I, for example, am not among that 18%, because I only decided to try ME after so many female friends recommended it.  I thought it was just a regular shooter game, which is not something that is typically female friendly at all. 

 

Your argument is basically cyclical.  We should not market to female gamers because female gamers do not play the games that are not marketed towards them.  We should only market to them after they have proven that they will play the games without any marketing towards them.

[Darth Krytie]

To steer it back towards consoles, what about the games I mentioned, how would you make a game like God of War which has intense masculine overtones appeal to women?

 

Or do you just cut your losses on that and throw the ad money towards a more solid demographic?

 

Well, my answer to that is: There are women who play these games. Women don't just sit around waiting for the next edition to Barbie's ouvre or Cooking Mama.

 

If you were to advertise that, maybe just make the advertising gender neutral? Don't assume your audience is a guy...There are some game ads that blatantly point out that that a dude will be playing it.

 

Recently, there have been some COD ads, I think. (One of the shooters) That had the real life gamers in the ad itself...and some were women. Don't have that "your mother will cry" or whatever the hell that crappyass Dead Space ad campaign was.

 

Put some gaming commercials in shows that women watch a lot like Teen Wolf or Supernatural.

 

You don't need to say "hey, ladies, you can kill things with this super awesome pink controller of death" to market to women.

 

(I wonder what people think "marketing to women" looks like...)

[Ispan]

Message from the DA facebook people when I asked if they could add gender and race to the Play Your Way section on the website:

 

"Hi, Ispan! Yes, there are changes coming to the text on the website. Representing gender and race in DAI are things that we want to make clear, so you can expect to see that corrected in the coming weeks. Thanks!"

 

Small victories, whee!   "Changes to the text" so it sounds like we won't be seeing the lady Inquisitor any time soon.  Too bad QQ

[Susty Randusky]

Well, my answer to that is: There are women who play these games. Women don't just sit around waiting for the next edition to Barbie's ouvre or Cooking Mama.
 

Are you hating on Cooking Mama?

[Darth Krytie]

Are you hating on Cooking Mama?

 

In my household, my dad did all the cooking. 

 

 

That actually is true, but it was still meant in a joking way.

[Mes]

That's why I said I was playing Devil's advocate

 

 

By the way you can play "devil's advocate" in reverse, too: How many of the men shopping for games are buying for themselves instead of their children or spouses or friends?

 

Last I checked men had people in their lives, too.

 

 

I know that the majority of Mass Effect players were male (or there were A LOT of women playing as MaleShep) from BioWare's own statistics on it.

 

Doesn't mean a thing. I've played as male Shep probably more times than as female Shep.

 

All that statistic shows us is which gender was the most popular for the protagonist.

[Steelcan]

I don't think solid conclusions can be drawn from this, because:

 

1. Only 18% of those who finished ME3, at the time those stats were compiled, played as female.  There is no word on how many picked up the game, played as femshep, and did not finish it (at least not before those stats were compiled).

2. Many women do choose to play as male, even when female is an option, just as many men choose to play as female.

3. As many of us have been saying, the lack of awareness of Femshep's existance meant that many women only picked up the game after they learned about her through word of mouth.  I, for example, am not among that 18%, because I only decided to try ME after so many female friends recommended it.  I thought it was just a regular shooter game, which is not something that is typically female friendly at all. 

 

Your argument is basically cyclical.  We should not market to female gamers because female gamers do not play the games that are not marketed towards them.  We should only market to them after they have proven that they will play the games without any marketing towards them.

 

1.  Marketing towards people who don't finish your game seems like a bad idea, they are hardly likely to be loyal customers or buy continuously if they weren't motivated enough to get through the game.

2.  But an 82% to 18% split seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of more male players.  Assuming equal rates of women played as MaleShep as men played as FemShep (which based on my experience on this forum I doubt)

3.  There is no feasible way to get word of the game and its features to everyone who could possibly be interested no matter how much ad money is spent.  If someone sees the trailer and isn't interested simply because they can't play a female character then that is their problem.  Not to say that there can't be a better job of getting out all the features of a game in a trailer, but showing of a CC in a trailer breaks the pacing or can confuse the average viewer.

 

You should market to people are more likely to buy your game.  And since the statistics available about what gender is more played indicates more people are interested in MaleShep than FemShep why on Earth would you market the game otherwise?

[Spirit Keeper]

Last I checked women make up 47% of the total gaming population, pretty darn big chunk right there. I'm not sure if i'm actually making any point with that statistic or not. Well I suppose the point it does make is that the idea that there aren't many female gamers or that most women just buy games for their boyfriends etc is a dumb point to make.

[Lady Nuggins]

I can point out several flaws in those articles, namely the focus on gaming as a whole including mobile gaming, which isn't as relevant to this discussion.

 

Do you have any sources for hard numbers on numbers of men vs women who buy a variety of console games?

 

 

I found those numbers you were looking for.

 

A 2010 study by the Entertainment Software Association had found that the percentage of women playing online had risen to 42%, up several percent since 2004. The same 2010 study showed that 46% of game purchasers were female,^[39] and this figure increased to 48% by 2012.^[34]

 

According to a survey done in 2004 by the Entertainment Software Association, 25 percent of console players and 39 percent of PC game players were women. According to a survey conducted by EEDAR, 60 percent of female gamers played on mobile devices. The survey also found that 63 percent of these female mobile gamers played online multiplayer mobile games.^[40]

 

In fact, 38% of Xbox users are female and 51% of them have children. Nintendo claims that 50% of its users are female as of 2013.^[37]

Thirty percent of women are playing more violent games.^[41] Of this 30%, 20% play Call of Duty and 15% play Grand Theft Auto.^[41]

[Spirit Keeper]

I found those numbers you were looking for.

 

A 2010 study by the Entertainment Software Association had found that the percentage of women playing online had risen to 42%, up several percent since 2004. The same 2010 study showed that 46% of game purchasers were female,^[39] and this figure increased to 48% by 2012.^[34]

 

According to a survey done in 2004 by the Entertainment Software Association, 25 percent of console players and 39 percent of PC game players were women. According to a survey conducted by EEDAR, 60 percent of female gamers played on mobile devices. The survey also found that 63 percent of these female mobile gamers played online multiplayer mobile games.^[40]

 

In fact, 38% of Xbox users are female and 51% of them have children. Nintendo claims that 50% of its users are female as of 2013.^[37]

Thirty percent of women are playing more violent games.^[41] Of this 30%, 20% play Call of Duty and 15% play Grand Theft Auto.^[41]

46%? I thought it was 47%, you've proved me wrong T_T my life is over now D8

 

[Steelcan]

By the way you can play "devil's advocate" in reverse, too: How many of the men shopping for games are buying for themselves instead of their children or spouses or friends?

 

Last I checked men had people in their lives, too.

 

 

Doesn't mean a thing. I've played as male Shep probably more times than as female Shep.

 

All that statistic shows us is which gender was the most popular for the protagonist.

I was pointing out that women I see usually have a kid in tow who they are buying the game for, I never said men didn't, but since we were talking about women buying games it didn't seem very relevant.

 

It's the only hard data that I have seen on the gender split.  So if gender choice isn't a factor for people, who bother advertising it?  If it is, why wouldn't you spend more money on the larger demographic, if people are more interested in playing MaleShep than FemShep why bother marketing FemShep?

[Susty Randusky]

Cooking Mama is so based tbh