2. But an 82% to 18% split seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of more male players. Assuming equal rates of women played as MaleShep as men played as FemShep (which based on my experience on this forum I doubt)
You keep using that example. Playing as a male Shepard in no way corrolates to being male.
Unless I've suddenly had a sex change I wasn't aware of. 
1. Marketing towards people who don't finish your game seems like a bad idea, they are hardly likely to be loyal customers or buy continuously if they weren't motivated enough to get through the game.
2. But an 82% to 18% split seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of more male players. Assuming equal rates of women played as MaleShep as men played as FemShep (which based on my experience on this forum I doubt)
3. There is no feasible way to get word of the game and its features to everyone who could possibly be interested no matter how much ad money is spent. If someone sees the trailer and isn't interested simply because they can't play a female character then that is their problem. Not to say that there can't be a better job of getting out all the features of a game in a trailer, but showing of a CC in a trailer breaks the pacing or can confuse the average viewer.
You should market to people are more likely to buy your game. And since the statistics available about what gender is more played indicates more people are interested in MaleShep than FemShep why on Earth would you market the game otherwise?
1. Just a couple pages ago, a guy was saying that the primary audience that Bioware is marketing to are the casual gamers who will buy the game and not play it all the way through. We already know that of the hardcore fans of Bioware games, women make up a sizeable ratio. So when it's guys who are casually playing it to make Bioware money, it's good, but not when it's casual female gamers, right?
2. But as I said, there are many possible reasons for that split, including the fact that male Shep is the default Shep. You cannot infer the gender of the player based on the gender of the character.
3. Yes there is. Show the female protag once in a while. That is literally all anybody here is asking for.
I just wrote you several paragraphs spread over multiple posts explaining why women are very likely to buy a Bioware game. But you don't want to read those posts, you want to be "devil's advocate."
You keep using that example. Playing as a male Shepard in no way corrolates to being male.
Unless I've suddenly had a sex change I wasn't aware of.
true, but I tend to assume that people will usually play the same gender as themselves
Even if that isn't true, it shows pretty clearly who the majority of players are playing as, and thus who should get the bigger portion of marketing
I was pointing out that women I see usually have a kid in tow who they are buying the game for, I never said men didn't, but since we were talking about women buying games it didn't seem very relevant.
It's the only hard data that I have seen on the gender split. So if gender choice isn't a factor for people, who bother advertising it? If it is, why wouldn't you spend more money on the larger demographic, if people are more interested in playing MaleShep than FemShep why bother marketing FemShep?
I don't think walking into a store every once in a while classifies as hard data.
The biggest reason why less people played as fem Shep, probably, is because she was hardly marketed AT ALL. Male Shep was on the box, in the trailers (except one at the very end)...
I firmly believe that if female Shep had been properly marketed, the divide wouldn't have been nearly as large.
It has nothing to do with people not being interested in female protagonists, or the number of women players versus male players.
Even if that isn't true, it shows pretty clearly who the majority of players are playing as, and thus who should get the bigger portion of marketing
No, I think the fact that the male protagonist was more popular is a direct result of the way the marketing was done.
Market the female protag in Inquisition as much as you market the male, then look at the numbers. That's only fair.
1. Just a couple pages ago, a guy was saying that the primary audience that Bioware is marketing to are the casual gamers who will buy the game and not play it all the way through. We already know that of the hardcore fans of Bioware games, women make up a sizeable ratio. So when it's guys who are casually playing it to make Bioware money, it's good, but not when it's casual female gamers, right?
2. But as I said, there are many possible reasons for that split, including the fact that male Shep is the default Shep. You cannot infer the gender of the player based on the gender of the character.
3. Yes there is. Show the female protag once in a while. That is literally all anybody here is asking for.
I just wrote you several paragraphs spread over multiple posts explaining why women are very likely to buy a Bioware game. But you don't want to read those posts, you want to be "devil's advocate."
1. On the previous page we saw that the percentage of women playing on Xbox is 38%, assume a similar split for Playstation. Who is the larger demographic? Who is more likely based on pure statistics to buy a console game? That's the demographic that marketing will focus on.
2. See above post
3. That won't magically make everyone interested in the game. And if people are more willing to play as a Male character even when the option of a female character is available then why would marketing go to the significantly smaller demographic?
true, but I tend to assume that people will usually play the same gender as themselves
Even if that isn't true, it shows pretty clearly who the majority of players are playing as, and thus who should get the bigger portion of marketing
Yes, perhaps they should get the "bigger" portion of the marketing. Not the ENTIRE portion of the marketing. And, also, you're discounting the fact that perhaps the reason that the majority is the majority IS because of the unbalanced marketing. You can't just NEVER market a game properly to a group, have that group NOT be a major purchaser, then use that fact to continue to NEVER market a game to them. That's just completely illogical.
true, but I tend to assume that people will usually play the same gender as themselves
Even if that isn't true, it shows pretty clearly who the majority of players are playing as, and thus who should get the bigger portion of marketing
Again, your argument is cyclical. Women need to prove they have the numbers to be marketed to, but they can't build the numbers without being marketed to.
And it's not a matter of portions. It's men getting ALL the marketing vs. women getting none. It's not a "bigger portion," it's the whole dang pie.
It's too late for Bioware to do anything about it now, but i'd rather never see the actual protagonist in the trailer. They always show the face and the armour (usually the worst armour in the game), I want to play as my Inquisitor not the one that Bioware predefines in trailers kind of makes it feel like 'THIS is the Inquisitor, no not YOUR one, THIS one, the one WE made for the trailer'. Same with the DA:O and DA2 trailer. Although DA:O was weird because as far as I know, there is no way to create the trailer warden...not that i've never bothered trying. Not to mention the amount of time, effort and money they would save on making main character trailers.
1. Marketing towards people who don't finish your game seems like a bad idea, they are hardly likely to be loyal customers or buy continuously if they weren't motivated enough to get through the game.
2. But an 82% to 18% split seems to be overwhelmingly in favor of more male players. Assuming equal rates of women played as MaleShep as men played as FemShep (which based on my experience on this forum I doubt)
3. There is no feasible way to get word of the game and its features to everyone who could possibly be interested no matter how much ad money is spent. If someone sees the trailer and isn't interested simply because they can't play a female character then that is their problem. Not to say that there can't be a better job of getting out all the features of a game in a trailer, but showing of a CC in a trailer breaks the pacing or can confuse the average viewer.
You should market to people are more likely to buy your game. And since the statistics available about what gender is more played indicates more people are interested in MaleShep than FemShep why on Earth would you market the game otherwise?
Just as a note, #2 is the Shepard breakdown, and that's the only thing it tells us is what gender of Shepard was completed. It's hard for us to definitively conclude who was playing those Shepard's, even if it's a logical conclusion (note, logic often doesn't reflect reality).
It's also important to note that the default for the game was male. Much like how the largest bulk of DAO's players were Male, Human Noble warriors. It's possible that the data cited doesn't lead the conclusions that people think it might. It's just data. We'd need to do experiments which is trickier.
I don't think walking into a store every once in a while classifies as hard data.
The biggest reason why less people played as fem Shep, probably, is because she was hardly marketed AT ALL. Male Shep was on the box, in the trailers (except one at the very end)...
I firmly believe that if female Shep had been properly marketed, the divide wouldn't have been nearly as large.
It has nothing to do with people not being interested in female protagonists, or the number of women players versus male players.
If you'd like I can take a picture of my ME3 box with FemShep on the cover
And I firmly believe that it wouldn't have made a significant difference.
If you'd like I can take a picture of my ME3 box with FemShep on the cover
And I firmly believe that it wouldn't have made a significant difference.
Note that if it wouldn't have made a significant difference, then that means that by extension there's little reason not to do it as well.
1. On the previous page we saw that the percentage of women playing on Xbox is 38%, assume a similar split for Playstation. Who is the larger demographic? Who is more likely based on pure statistics to buy a console game? That's the demographic that marketing will focus on.
2. See above post
3. That won't magically make everyone interested in the game. And if people are more willing to play as a Male character even when the option of a female character is available then why would marketing go to the significantly smaller demographic?
1. Yes, and the percentage playing Nintendo is 50%. I notice you ignored that part. Don't assume the numbers are the same for Playstation--it's anecdotally well known that more women avoid the Xbox because Xbox online is so hostile towards women. Most women I know prefer Playstation.
3. But many women ARE interested in this kind of game. This is exactly the kind of game that many women would want to play. Many just don't yet know that it features the things that would interest them because it is not reflected in the marketing.
Just as a note, #2 is the Shepard breakdown, and that's the only thing it tells us is what gender of Shepard was completed. It's hard for us to definitively conclude who was playing those Shepard's, even if it's a logical conclusion (note, logic often doesn't reflect reality).
It's also important to note that the default for the game was male. Much like how the largest bulk of DAO's players were Male, Human Noble warriors. It's possible that the data cited doesn't lead the conclusions that people think it might. It's just data. We'd need to do experiments which is trickier.
I wonder how those percentages would skew if the default was female.
No, I think the fact that the male protagonist was more popular is a direct result of the way the marketing was done.
Market the female protag in Inquisition as much as you market the male, then look at the numbers. That's only fair.
I think it was based on how hard the character creator was to use >_<. I couldn't make a female character that I thought looked okay (they looked fine in the CC and then a different person in-game).
I do agree though, you can only represent the statistics by using a wider sample size that covers different areas. Anyone who does science, sociology, anything using statistics would know that drawing a conclusion based on only half the sample size isn't representative of the facts.
Hopefully that made sense I can never tell when i'm being clear or not.
Just as a note, #2 is the Shepard breakdown, and that's the only thing it tells us is what gender of Shepard was completed. It's hard for us to definitively conclude who was playing those Shepard's, even if it's a logical conclusion (note, logic often doesn't reflect reality).
It's also important to note that the default for the game was male. Much like how the largest bulk of DAO's players were Male, Human Noble warriors. It's possible that the data cited doesn't lead the conclusions that people think it might. It's just data. We'd need to do experiments which is trickier.
They were? 8D that was my favourite Origin, playthough etc etc bla bla too. Here I thought Dalish elves were, i'm so proud :')
Okay, I'm about to nip this in the bud.
If women "only" make up 38% of the 79.4 million Xbox Ones sold (source), then that means that there are 30.1 million women Xbox gamers out there.
(Obviously this is an approximation since it's assuming 1 Xbox = 1 player).
I don't think that 38% (or even 20%) is a small number that indicates "well this market should be ignored."
That said, we're all (including myself) making conjecture on how much of a difference it would make. I imagine that's where a lot of the gunshyness comes from (which sucks). IF it DOES make a difference, and that difference is bad... well then whoa that sucks. On some level its risk aversion I think, and I find continued threads like this help chip away at the risk.
I think it was based on how hard the character creator was to use >_<. I couldn't make a female character that I thought looked okay (they looked fine in the CC and then a different person in-game).
.
Yeah that CC...
I actually used the default for the first time ever cause I couldn't make a good looking one.
Just as a note, #2 is the Shepard breakdown, and that's the only thing it tells us is what gender of Shepard was completed. It's hard for us to definitively conclude who was playing those Shepard's, even if it's a logical conclusion (note, logic often doesn't reflect reality).
It's also important to note that the default for the game was male. Much like how the largest bulk of DAO's players were Male, Human Noble warriors. It's possible that the data cited doesn't lead the conclusions that people think it might. It's just data. We'd need to do experiments which is trickier.
The statistics do tell us that more players are interested in playing Male Shepards than female.
Since women make up roughly 40% of console gamers, much higher in mobile gaming, (using the stats from the previous page) I'd expect the ratio of FemSheps to MaleSheps to match that roughly 4:6, but its closer to 2:8. While you are right there is no way to tell firmly how many women played FemShep vs MaleShep but for argument's sake I will stick to the logical conclusion. So I am forced to conclude that either women make up a smaller percentage of console gamers than previously believed, I find that unlikely, or the game was played predominately by men, more likely in my opinion, or there were significantly more women than men playing as the opposite gender Shepard, possible but a bit unlikely.
As for Shepard being default, the options on the New Game Menu are:
Start Default Shepard (leads to Sheploo, Soldier, with preset service history)
Start Custom Male Shepard
Start Custom Female Shepard
So I don't see how the default Shepard being male would dissuade people who already have the game from playing a custom Shepard.
Yeah that CC...
I actually used the default for the first time ever cause I couldn't make a good looking one.
Also women suffer from a terrible case of giraffe neck syndrome.
Marketing for anything is driven by market consumption of that product by certain demographics. However, you can’t tell me that a company, whether it is in games or cosmetics, has not wanted to branch out to capture parts of the demographic that don’t make up the majority of purchasers. To NOT do that actually limits expanding and selling more of their product.
I've never been too bothered by not having things marketed towards me because I'm older and the default was always been 'market to guys.' Having said that, I'm much more discerning in how or what I purchase these days. I'm the one in the shop with a kid in tow, I think about these things when I make my purchases (and to be honest I purchase far more games for myself than anyone else although sometimes its a nice excuse...) I've noticed that as I get older I'm shying away from games marketed in an uber masculine way and that's an opportunity lost for a company who wants to broaden their appeal and sales.
I would be curious to know how many people bought ME3 when they saw the femshep trailer
Marketing for anything is driven by market consumption of that product by certain demographics. However, you can’t tell me that a company, whether it is in games or cosmetics, has not wanted to branch out to capture parts of the demographic that don’t make up the majority of purchasers. To NOT do that actually limits expanding and selling more of their product.
I've never been too bothered by not having things marketed towards me because I'm older and the default was always been 'market to guys.' Having said that, I'm much more discerning in how or what I purchase these days. I'm the one in the shop with a kid in tow, I think about these things when I make my purchases (and to be honest I purchase far more games for myself than anyone else although sometimes its a nice excuse...) I've noticed that as I get older I'm shying away from games marketed in an uber masculine way and that's an opportunity lost for a company who wants to broaden their appeal and sales.
I'm quite sick of the uber masculine type games too. Mostly because of how the men look. Freaking mountains! Nobody looks like that. Somehow normal body shapes and ones which are exaggerated caricatures are lost on the wider gaming market.
I would be curious to know how many people bought ME3 when they saw the femshep trailer
I bought the game without seeing any of the trailers somehow. Of course i've seen them now. All I could say is that the trailers for ME3 were too arty and didn't represent what the game was actually about.
I bought the game without seeing any of the trailers somehow. Of course i've seen them now. All I could say is that the trailers for ME3 were too arty and didn't represent what the game was actually about.
They left out the crushing disappointment and rage
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