9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

No, do.  You demanded statistics, now tell me why all the statistics are wrong.  You've put the onus on us to prove to you how many women are playing video games.  Now please tell me why they aren't worth your time.

 

ME3 was the most shootery of the ME trilogy, let's be honest.  Most of us may play it for the RPG elements, but that's not who they were trying to get to buy the game by the third one.

*sigh*

 

The statistics for mobile gamers, Nintendo gamers, people playing online (does this include only Mobile games, MMO's, matchmaking in Halo?) are not relevant to a discussion on console gaming.  Yes the Wii-U and Wii are consoles, they are also their own market and a bit different than either the Playstation or Xbox so those stats are not relevant to a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (is DA:I even releasing on a Nintendo console?)  furthermore I did not ignore all the statistics.

 

Yes it was the most shootery, that does not mean it wasn't still an RPG and Sci-Fi game

[Stelae]

In my ME1 game, the startup screen says:

 

John Shepard

Enter New ID

Select Existing ID

 

So, the number of people who started (and possibly imported) their Shepard as male might be due to the fact that it wasn't even clear that there was a character creator, never mind one that allowed for a Female Shepard.

 

Adding: The text when you cycle to "enter new ID" is "Manually enter career info and physical stats into the Normandy Crew database".

 

Mine too. 

 

And the thing is, John Shepard is a plug-n-play character; all ready to go.  If I'm not sure about the mechanics of creating a character, or the implications my CC choices are going to have on game play, he's the one I pick to be sure I've got a balanced, viable character.   (Well, he's the one that the me who hasn't been playing RPGs since the 80s would pick, anyhow.  The actual me spent hours mucking about in the CC, but you get the idea.)

 

You might press ahead and enter a quick play male or female character, but chances are, all eager to play your brand new game, and not being familiar with the CC mechanics, you'll go with the default.  And once you've done that, who do you import into the sequels? 

 

If there'd been a "Jane Shepard" plug-n-play, who knows what effect that'd have on the final stats. 

[Steelcan]

And I drew the logical conclusion that if that is the only statistic you will accept, then that is still not an insignificant number.  One in five is not an insignificant number. 

 

Femshep was nearly nonexistant until ME3, and then she was only occasionally mentioned.  Lady Hawke does not exist anywhere outside of the game, at any point, ever.  They should have been in the promo materials 20% of the time.  But they weren't. 

The only game that I am aware with numbers about the split is ME3, and it did have a FemShep trailer.  As I said there are 3 MaleShep pre-release trailers and one FemShep, that is a 3:1 ration or 25% which is already significantly higher than the actual ratio of FemShep players that we can reasonably assume played ME3.

[Mihura]

It gives me basis to draw a logical conclusion.

 

The data shows that most people who finished the game played MaleShep, therefore it is logical that most people who played the game played MaleShep, it is also logical to assume that most people play their own gender when playing a game, it is logical to assume that the people who played ME3 are more interested in playing MaleShep

 

Yes that is true but if you take the female option like they toke the race options on DA 2 along side a lot of things, do you believe they would have the same success in ME? You are underestimate the 20%, there is a lot of fandom creation that helps the marketing too. Like I said casual and active consumer are different things and have different influences. 

[Spirit Keeper]

Mine too. 

 

And the thing is, John Shepard is a plug-n-play character; all ready to go.  If I'm not sure about the mechanics of creating a character, or the implications my CC choices are going to have on game play, he's the one I pick to be sure I've got a balanced, viable character.   (Well, he's the one that the me who hasn't been playing RPGs since the 80s would pick, anyhow.  The actual me spent hours mucking about in the CC, but you get the idea.)

 

You might press ahead and enter a quick play male or female character, but chances are, all eager to play your brand new game, and not being familiar with the CC mechanics, you'll go with the default.  And once you've done that, who do you import into the sequels? 

 

If there'd been a "Jane Shepard" plug-n-play, who knows what effect that'd have on the final stats. 

He may be the 'plug-n-play' character, but seriously, ewww. Default character? *throws up*

[Steelcan]

Mine too. 

 

And the thing is, John Shepard is a plug-n-play character; all ready to go.  If I'm not sure about the mechanics of creating a character, or the implications my CC choices are going to have on game play, he's the one I pick to be sure I've got a balanced, viable character.   (Well, he's the one that the me who hasn't been playing RPGs since the 80s would pick, anyhow.  The actual me spent hours mucking about in the CC, but you get the idea.)

 

You might press ahead and enter a quick play male or female character, but chances are, all eager to play your brand new game, and not being familiar with the CC mechanics, you'll go with the default.  And once you've done that, who do you import into the sequels? 

 

If there'd been a "Jane Shepard" plug-n-play, who knows what effect that'd have on the final stats. 

Once again, if people are too lazy to fully explore all the options available to them they cannot complain about the options they have.

[Allan Schumacher]

The statistics do tell us that more players are interested in playing Male Shepards than female.

 

They don't actually tell you that.  It's very dangerous to make that assumption

 

 

 

 

Since women make up roughly 40% of console gamers, much higher in mobile gaming, (using the stats from the previous page) I'd expect the ratio of FemSheps to MaleSheps to match that roughly 4:6, but its closer to 2:8.  While you are right there is no way to tell firmly how many women played FemShep vs MaleShep but for argument's sake I will stick to the logical conclusion.  So I am forced to conclude that either women make up a smaller percentage of console gamers than previously believed, I find that unlikely, or the game was played predominately by men, more likely in my opinion, or there were significantly more women than men playing as the opposite gender Shepard, possible but a bit unlikely.

 

How about people that play through the game more than once?

 

 

As for Shepard being default, the options on the New Game Menu are:

 

Start Default Shepard (leads to Sheploo, Soldier, with preset service history)

Start Custom Male Shepard

Start Custom Female Shepard

 

So I don't see how the default Shepard being male would dissuade people who already have the game from playing a custom Shepard.

 

Which one is highlighted first?  Is there any chance that the game being a sequel alters its player base numbers from the console norm?  (i.e. was the damage already done with ME1?)

[Lady Nuggins]

*sigh*

 

The statistics for mobile gamers, Nintendo gamers, people playing online (does this include only Mobile games, MMO's, matchmaking in Halo?) are not relevant to a discussion on console gaming.  Yes the Wii-U and Wii are consoles, they are also their own market and a bit different than either the Playstation or Xbox so those stats are not relevant to a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (is DA:I even releasing on a Nintendo console?)  furthermore I did not ignore all the statistics.

 

Yes it was the most shootery, that does not mean it wasn't still an RPG and Sci-Fi game

 

Nintendo is a console.  It is.  It may not be your console of choice, but don't talk about "console gaming" and then ignore it.

 

Let's go over this again:

"According to a survey done in 2004 by the Entertainment Software Association, 25 percent of console players and 39 percent of PC game players were women."

 

See that?  Consoles.  PCs.  Both things that DA and ME are found on.

[Allan Schumacher]

Once again, if people are too lazy to fully explore all the options available to them they cannot complain about the options they have.

 

I disagree emphatically.

 

The problem I have with your dismissal is that it dismisses those that feel the game isn't marketed to them.  But you use the data to confirm that the game shouldn't be marketed to them.  This is a dangerous conclusion to make.

 

 

It gives me basis to draw a logical conclusion.

 

The most important thing to realize about drawing logical conclusions is that your logic can be wrong.  It often is, and it's something that I learned a long time ago.

 

Further, stating that it's a logical conclusion implies that you don't know the answer (which is true... it's true for me).  Just remember that.

[Mes]

*sigh*

 

The statistics for mobile gamers, Nintendo gamers, people playing online (does this include only Mobile games, MMO's, matchmaking in Halo?) are not relevant to a discussion on console gaming.  Yes the Wii-U and Wii are consoles, they are also their own market and a bit different than either the Playstation or Xbox so those stats are not relevant to a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (is DA:I even releasing on a Nintendo console?)  furthermore I did not ignore all the statistics.

 

Yes it was the most shootery, that does not mean it wasn't still an RPG and Sci-Fi game

 

Any kind of gaming is relevant to a discussion on gaming!

 

Someone who plays on the Nintendo (which is awesome) is not less of a gamer than someone who plays on PS4.

 

All gamers are constantly looking for new games. Someone who plays mobile games is a gamer.

 

You can't possibly be seriously discounting all of these people?

[Steelcan]

Nintendo is a console.  It is.  It may not be your console of choice, but don't talk about "console gaming" and then ignore it.

 

Let's go over this again:

"According to a survey done in 2004 by the Entertainment Software Association, 25 percent of console players and 39 percent of PC game players were women."

 

See that?  Consoles.  PCs.  Both things that DA and ME are found on.

and the Wii wasn't released until 2006

 

So clearly the statistics between Xbox and PlayStation are rather different from the Wii

 

 

I am starting to get the impression that you are just going to be needlessly aggressive against everything I say

[Nefla]

*sigh*

 

The statistics for mobile gamers, Nintendo gamers, people playing online (does this include only Mobile games, MMO's, matchmaking in Halo?) are not relevant to a discussion on console gaming.  Yes the Wii-U and Wii are consoles, they are also their own market and a bit different than either the Playstation or Xbox so those stats are not relevant to a game like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (is DA:I even releasing on a Nintendo console?)  furthermore I did not ignore all the statistics.

 

Yes it was the most shootery, that does not mean it wasn't still an RPG and Sci-Fi game

But it was marketed as a straight up shooter with a generic fixed protagonist, not an RPG and that does not appeal to most women.

[Spirit Keeper]

I'd like to see some non-stereotyped gay and bi representation in marketing. You know, just putting that out there to if we are talking about equality.

[Darth Krytie]

I'd like to see some non-stereotyped gay and bi representation in marketing. You know, just putting that out there to if we are talking about equality.

 

I agree. I think that'd be great.

[Spirit Keeper]

I agree. I think that'd be great.

Awesome, I like you.

[Icinix]

A gamer is a gamer.

 

Statistics and analytical data are never irrelevant. The interpretation, I would argue, is what defines their usefulness or uselessness.

[Nefla]

I'd like to see some non-stereotyped gay and bi representation in marketing. You know, just putting that out there to if we are talking about equality.

So would I, it's crazy how it's 2014 and gaming is lagging so far behind socially. Women are generally portrayed as damsels or sex objects, lesbians are butch psychos (or male fanservice) gay men are clownish weirdos, black guys are pimps and thugs and every other race pretty much doesn't exist.

[Mihura]

I'd like to see some non-stereotyped gay and bi representation in marketing. You know, just putting that out there to if we are talking about equality.

 

I would like this too, if not do not touch the romantic side. Everyone is equal that way LOL

[Mes]

Steelcan, can you explain to us why exactly you don't want women to be marketed to? With all this Mass Effect back and forth discussions, I think I've lost sight of your point.

 

 

I'd like to see some non-stereotyped gay and bi representation in marketing. You know, just putting that out there to if we are talking about equality.

 

Totally! And that's a big enough discussion to warrant its own thread, methinks.

[Steelcan]

I disagree emphatically.

 

The problem I have with your dismissal is that it dismisses those that feel the game isn't marketed to them.  But you use the data to confirm that the game shouldn't be marketed to them.  This is a dangerous conclusion to make.

 

If someone today were to sign up for BSN and post about how they are outraged that they cannot play a dwarf in DA:I people would be very quick to point out that they in fact can.

 

It is their fault for not being aware of all the options in the game.

 

 

Perhaps a better job can be done of moving away from a "default" character, but that doesn't excuse ignorance about all the options available.

[Lady Nuggins]

 

I am starting to get the impression that you are just going to be needlessly aggressive against everything I say

 

Funny, I am getting that exact impression from you.  I have explained at length my side of it, you actively ignore most of what I post, you demand statistics and then ignore those.  You said from the beginning you were here to play devil's advocate.  I am here because this is an issue that I care about.  I am surrounded by female fans of Bioware who have felt ignored and invisible for years.  I met so many of them at a con just this weekend.  Dozens of FemSheps and female DA cosplayers.  They want to see themselves represented in the merch and on posters.  They want these games that they love to gain more exposure among female fans. 

 

I don't know why you're arguing.  Because you don't think female protags are worth showing ever?  Okay, then.

[Darth Krytie]

If someone today were to sign up for BSN and post about how they are outraged that they cannot play a dwarf in DA:I people would be very quick to point out that they in fact can.

 

It is their fault for not being aware of all the options in the game.

 

 

Perhaps a better job can be done of moving away from a "default" character, but that doesn't excuse ignorance about all the options available.

 

People shouldn't have to come onto a board to learn about who you can play in a game.  If they had a better design of the CC screen in ME1, then there wouldn't have been any confusion about the topic.

[Spirit Keeper]

Can't forget about the trans, pan and other fellow LGBT people too.

 

You get non-stereotyped representation in marketing and you get non-stereotyped representation on marketing. Everybody gets non-stereotyped representation in marketing!

[Mes]

 

I don't know why you're arguing.  Because you don't think female protags are worth showing ever?  Okay, then.

 

I'm not sure what his ultimate point is either?

[Steelcan]

Steelcan, can you explain to us why exactly you don't want women to be marketed to? With all this Mass Effect back and forth discussions, I think I've lost sight of your point.

I never said they shouldn't be marketed to at all, if I did, please point it out and I will edit it immediately.

 

All I am saying right now is that marketing should reflect the realities of the demographics of people who play the game, and that consumers should educate themselves on all the options available in a game before arriving at a conclusion about the game's options.