9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Nefla]

I agree, but an unfocused trailer that leaves a consumer wondering what they just saw isn't what you want to go for.

 

And trailers don't have to be memorable to be effective

Who says it would be unfocused? Movie trailers show humor, romance, drama, action, etc...in one trailer all the time and they are generally the ones that make you go "I want to see that!"

 

I think to be effective a trailer should be memorable as in it should stand out and not be generic and boring and have you forgetting the title of the game as well as the trailer itself within 20 minutes.

[Steelcan]

Marketing to more people is not risky, though I've heard this excuse several times before.

 

Replacing all male Inquisitors/Shepards with female ones in marketing may be risky.

 

But having the trailers or what have you be more balanced? How is that risky?

 

Are you saying a bunch of male gamers would turn their eyes away in disgust and refuse to buy a Bioware game that dared advertise a female?

 

If that's so, do we really even care about people with that kind of mentality?

 

Marketing to what is perceived as an uncertain demographic is risky, whether it is actually an uncertain demographic or not is a different matter.  Having more traielrs detailing all the different options runs into issues of a focused campaign and bloated budgets.

 

No that is not what I am saying, I am saying that spending advertising money on what is more likely to bring a greater return is sound business.  You see ice cream ads in the middle of winter for a reason, even though there are probably people who could go for some in January.

 

And yes, businesses care mostly about how much they get in return, EA in particular as we are all aware.

[Lady Nuggins]

Also, I think that people are being slightly hypocritical. I'd love to see a trailer showing off the depths of the character creation system, just because that's a cool thing to see. But when I see people saying (horribly paraphrased) "check your priveledge dudebro" I feel confused. I mean, there are people who are sayin they won't play the game because Minquisitor is the trailer character.....but not being comfortable with playing as another sexuality/gender is Superbad? Have I missed something?

 

I think you are misreading the topic.  Nobody here is saying that they won't play the game because of a male protag.  They are saying that other female gamers who would be attracted to the game may not be because they only see a male protag.  I think we can be fairly confident that nearly everybody on this forum intends to play DA:I.

 

And nobody has been railing on privilege checking, here.  We're not saying there can't be male protags anymore.  We're not putting down male gamers.  All we're asking for is a little more visibility for the female Inquisitor.  I don't know why this is such a mind-blowing idea.

[efd731]

When people attempt to use 'privilege' it comes across as a shaming tactic to silence opposing opinions rather than have an honest discussion. It also reminds me of this:

that comic pleases me greatly

[Steelcan]

Who says it would be unfocused? Movie trailers show humor, romance, drama, action, etc...in one trailer all the time and they are generally the ones that make you go "I want to see that!"

 

I think to be effective a trailer should be memorable as in it should stand out and not be generic and boring and have you forgetting the title of the game as well as the trailer itself within 20 minutes.

A dedicated trailer to showing of CC could work, but people would probably have to already be exposed to the product to even want that sort of thing.

 

Once again, memorable trailers are not necessary for good sales.  CoD is a pretty good example, as is ME3, or any number of other games

[Allan Schumacher]

In which case the advertising needs to appeal to lowest common denominator in order to get as wide an appeal as possible on a marketing budget.  The perception today is that straight, white, relatively young, male's dominate the market and this group should be advertised to.

 

That demographic is clearly not the only one of significant size, but I am willing to bet that it is still the single largest individual group

 

Moving to PM then.

[Bugsie]

Because its a riskier marketing strategy.

 

AAA games are already a huge money sink with profit margins nowhere near as large as many people think they are.

 

 

For all I know such a marketing strategy could pay dividends for the company brave enough to go out on the limb, but companies tend to be rather conservative when it comes to spending money on an unsure project.  There is always the risk that the game will bomb despite being well made and well crafted (see Kingdoms of Amalur)

I would say it's riskier to base your marketing strategy on spurious statistics.  There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics.

 

I get that game developers live on a shoe string, and yes I'd much rather they sink their dollars into game mechanics and story rather than marketing, I just think that this is not always a win-lose situation.  My understanding of Kingdoms of Amular (never played it) it's combat was good but it fell down on it's story and setting, relying heavily on WRPGs that came before not because of poor or unfocussed marketing.

[efd731]

I think you are misreading the topic. Nobody here is saying that they won't play the game because of a male protag. They are saying that other female gamers who would be attracted to the game may not be because they only see a male protag. I think we can be fairly confident that nearly everybody on this forum intends to play DA:I.

And nobody has been railing on privilege checking, here. We're not saying there can't be male protags anymore. We're not putting down male gamers. All we're asking for is a little more visibility for the female Inquisitor. I don't know why this is such a mind-blowing idea.

maybe I'm in the wrong thread? I started at 1 an worked my way to here, so in pretty sure I saw the term priveledge and dudebro thrown around a bit. Regardless, femquisitor visibility could use a boost. Don't see what the big deal is however, Laidlaw or Darrah Allready said she'd get screentime.

[Darth Krytie]

I would say it's riskier to base your marketing strategy on spurious statistics.  There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics.

 

I get that game developers live on a shoe string, and yes I'd much rather they sink their dollars into game mechanics and story rather than marketing, I just think that this is not always a win-lose situation.  My understanding of Kingdoms of Amular (never played it) it's combat was good but it fell down on it's story and setting, relying heavily on WRPGs that came before not because of poor or unfocussed marketing.

 

Amalur died because of the way they spent way too much money developing it into a MMO. There was poor management all around. It sold fairly well.

[Lady Nuggins]

At the end of the day, the marketing team has almost definitely already worked out their plans for DA:I.  If EA wants to throw nothing but white dudebros on the face of Inquisition, then there is nothing we can do to stop it.

 

This remains nothing but a humble request from the people who are directly impacted by this particular marketing decision.  That's it.  If you can't handle this request, when there are much more silly ones in this very forum, then I don't know what to tell you. 

[Mes]

Marketing to what is perceived as an uncertain demographic is risky, whether it is actually an uncertain demographic or not is a different matter.  Having more traielrs detailing all the different options runs into issues of a focused campaign and bloated budgets.

 

No that is not what I am saying, I am saying that spending advertising money on what is more likely to bring a greater return is sound business.  You see ice cream ads in the middle of winter for a reason, even though there are probably people who could go for some in January.

 

And yes, businesses care mostly about how much they get in return, EA in particular as we are all aware.

 

First off do you have examples of previous games that have marketed equally toward men and women that have ended up seeming unfocused?

 

Secondly, the fact that you are comparing marketing to women to ice cream ads in winter is preposterous to say the least and shows your colors.

 

No one is saying that companies should produce twice the amount of trailers (thus doubling the budget), or replace all the men with women. God I'm pretty sure if the first ever Inquisition trailer showed a female Inquisitor and all subsequent trailers showed men, we would be very happy.

 

We are not asking for much. Please don't blow it out of proportion.

[Nefla]

A dedicated trailer to showing of CC could work, but people would probably have to already be exposed to the product to even want that sort of thing.

 

Once again, memorable trailers are not necessary for good sales.  CoD is a pretty good example, as is ME3, or any number of other games

You never know, a lot of people (myself included) find CC and customization to be extremely important. When I see something with an awesome CC that gives me lots of options it piques my interest and makes me want to know more about the game.

 

Memorable trailers may not be necessary in every case, but they are a benefit. Games like CoD aren't making sales through trailers so they can be as lazy and generic as they want with advertising. The people who have bought the last installment will buy the next one and everyone knows what it is. DA:I is part of a much less popular genre and a series that alienated a lot of fans with the second game. It can't afford to be generic and dull.

[Steelcan]

First off do you have examples of previous games that have marketed equally toward men and women that have ended up seeming unfocused?

 

Secondly, the fact that you are comparing marketing to women to ice cream ads in winter is preposterous to say the least and shows your colors.

 

No one is saying that companies should produce twice the amount of trailers (thus doubling the budget), or replace all the men with women. God I'm pretty sure if the first ever Inquisition trailer showed a female Inquisitor and all subsequent trailers showed men, we would be very happy.

 

We are not asking for much. Please don't blow it out of proportion.

No I don't I am merely offering an explanation as to why some businesses would be hesitant to put money into what they would see as an unsafe business strategy.

 

I am comparing ads that are meant to bring in money, an ice cream ad in Alaska isn't going to be worth the money spent to get it out, you can read as much into it as you want and think what you will about my own biases and beliefs, but I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against that.

 

And am not saying much beyond "marketing probably isn't going to focus too much on the aspects you'd like to see for reasons x,y, and z"

[Stelae]

And nobody has been railing on privilege checking, here.  We're not saying there can't be male protags anymore.  We're not putting down male gamers.  All we're asking for is a little more visibility for the female Inquisitor.  I don't know why this is such a mind-blowing idea.

 

I think some people still think that marketing (and the game industry in general) is a zero-sum game.  That is, that if even a fraction of the marketing or development is targeted towards women, then automatically it means something (I'm not sure what)  is being taken away from men.  This includes, and I really don't know why, a lot of marketers.

 

There really seems to be this idea that if --horror -- Bioware makes an effort to market to women, that somehow they are neglecting men.  It doesn't make any sense, of course; you only have to look at the marketing for DAI to know that they are targeting RPG fans, and, oh, look, the protag in all the trailers is male again.  But here it is. 

[Nefla]

No I don't I am merely offering an explanation as to why some businesses would be hesitant to put money into what they would see as an unsafe business strategy.

 

I am comparing ads that are meant to bring in money, an ice cream ad in Alaska isn't going to be worth the money spent to get it out, you can read as much into it as you want and think what you will about my own biases and beliefs, but I'm not going to waste my time defending myself against that.

 

And am not saying much beyond "marketing probably isn't going to focus too much on the aspects you'd like to see for reasons x,y, and z"

Actually, here in Alaska we eat ice cream all year round

[Stelae]

Actually, here in Alaska we eat ice cream all year round

Bet it really warms you up in the winter

[Nefla]

Bet it really warms you up in the winter

Bah, the cold makes no difference to us! The shorts come out when it gets to be around 40 degrees.

[Steelcan]

I'm not even entirely sure what a winter is down here in the South.

[slimgrin]

Good god...it never ends.

[Nefla]

I'm not even entirely sure what a winter is down here in the South.

It's when you go outside after a shower and your hair freezes solid in 10 seconds.

[Steelcan]

It's when you go outside after a shower and your hair freezes solid in 10 seconds.

Yeah that probably hasn't happened in SC since the last Ice Age

[Tayah]

When did this become a discussion based on consoles only? As the games we're talking about are on PC too I would think PC stats would also count. I would also point out that anyone who picked up ME3 after the data was collected, who held off on the endings when the debacle happened or who chooses not to have their data collected (like me) will not be represented in those statistics being quoted either. And interpreting statistics is a science in and of itself!

 

Having said that I'm not sure the data from ME3 is overly relevant to the DA franchise since David Gaider in his talk and Allan Schumacher earlier in this thread mentioned that the number of women they meet playing or talking about the DA franchise is a larger percentage than for ME. Given that is the case why not try to broaden the appeal even further among the people (women and men interested in female protagonists) with some marketing aimed at them? There was a trailer floating around for DA:O with Duncan doing the voice over where he specifically explains you can play any race or gender and the MC is shown in the entry to Ostegar as various combos male human, female dwarf, male dwarf female elf etc that made that point reasonably well I thought and did not seem in the least unfocused.

 

As said above we're not asking for the whole, most or even half the marketing budget to be spent on advertising to female and male players interested in a female protag, we're just asking for a small share of it to acknowledge us and invite us and the ladies and gents who don't follow forums to play the game too. And while we're at it yes I agree with those who suggest more inclusiveness for LGBT and other minority content as well.   

 

Also not sure why men would have a problem seeing a trailer and a little art aimed at female players. Isn't that underestimating them as much as us? Just a random thought.

 

Note: This thread is moving so fast atm.

[Mes]

Bah, the cold makes no difference to us! The shorts come out when it gets to be around 40 degrees.

 

Weirdos. (Just kidding. Would love to visit Alaska and eat ice cream in all the beautiful-looking places.)

 

Good god...it never ends.

 

My, my. You do have a way with words.

[efd731]

Bah, the cold makes no difference to us! The shorts come out when it gets to be around 40 degrees.

that's the one temperature I like In Fahrenheit, because it is the only time they(Celsius/Fahrenheit) match up and we can mutually appreciate how cold it is.

[Bugsie]

No I don't I am merely offering an explanation as to why some businesses would be hesitant to put money into what they would see as an unsafe business strategy.

 

Trying to expand your demographic is an unsafe strategy?  Funny, because I thought that's how businesses ultimately succeed.