9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Gregolian]

Well Marvel has done a great job of convincing non-comics people to come see all the movies. After each show I hear all these comments of "Oh, well I'm not really into comics, but that was so good!"

 

So maybe we just need to market like Marvel.  

The thing though about the Marvel movies though is this and it is much more apparent in Winter Soldier and GoTG.  Winter Soldier, you take away the Capt. America skin and it becomes a really REALLY good spy/thriller type movie in the vein of Jason Bourne.

 

GoTG you remove the Marvel skin and it becomes the modern Star Wars for misfits.

 

The most recent Marvel movies are a success because they aren't made to be superhero movies in the traditional way the original Spider-Man was or the original X-Men trilogy was.  They are being made and marketed in a way that makes them seem like stuff we all have seen at one point or another.

[thehomeworld]

 

On this topic, then, do you guys feel that DAI would be an easy game to introduce a "casual" gamer to?  In this context, I mean somebody who is not familiar with RPG systems (classes, stats, levelling, inventory management, etc.).  How would you pitch it to a female gamer who has only ever played Mario and Candy Crush?

 

It actually depends on how DAI is handled but basing it on DAA and DAO I'd say no the inventory, quest management, and other things could prove difficult and frustrating for a beginner into rpgs, my sister while drawn to DAO for its customization and cool looking gameplay has never gotten past the dalish campsight its proving too difficult for her and she's fairly in the casual field or light play field as far as play, the only recent game she beat this year was Thief and that was after pretty much an 6 year hiatus of gaming.

 

Beyond two Souls was made to be easy to anyone and has a rarely plays game mode that I guess would make the already straight forward easy controls doubly so. I'm trying to think of some rpg titles that could be great introduction games for light players but even Portal 2 I couldn't get my nephew's young female friends to get the grasp of they play WII and Mario and puzzle games on the WII but seemed very lost at this game. Maybe the walking dead series, or Mass Effect 2 and 3 could go over well for her. I suppose if you had a game night with your friend and play sometime with DA or DAI to let her just watch you then let her play your profile or make a new one this way you're there to answer any questions she may pose and give her hints or help if she's stuck in a battle that she just can't get past and its frustrating her this way its gradual and maybe it might make her want to buy the game and further it herself.

[Ravensword]

Edit.

[Ravensword]

Who just said that Twilight is a good series?

[aTigerslunch]

I rather not get into a debate about sparkling vampires and shapeshifters.    That should go off topic thread.

[SardaukarElite]

Who just said that Twilight is a good series?

 

Some people said that it was successful, not good, but please feel free to flip a table over at the mere mention of something's name.

 

Of course it's only something for teenage girls which can invoke such rage at a namedrop.

[Ravensword]

Some people said that it was successful, not good, but please feel free to flip a table over at the mere mention of something's name.
 
Of course it's only something for teenage girls which can invoke such rage at a namedrop.

A story about a one-dimensional female heroine whose life revolves around a creepy, sparkly vampire who has a penchant for stalking her and has to fight the urge to tear out her throat. Is this a good thing for something to be successful?

[thehomeworld]

^ Yeah lets all agree those character types should never be employed by BW and definitely no sparkling shapeshifting anything.

[Nefla]

A story about a one-dimensional female heroine whose life revolves around a creepy, sparkly vampire who has a penchant for stalking her and has to fight the urge to tear out her throat. Is this a good thing for something to be successful?

it does kind of make you think though. Is there so little that directly appeals to teenage girls, even having a teen girl as the protagonist that even something as poorly done as Twilight will be super successful? It shows that teen girls and young women have huge buying power and should be appealed to more often (hopefully in a more skillful and thought out way).

[SardaukarElite]

A story about a one-dimensional female heroine whose life revolves around a creepy, sparkly vampire who has a penchant for stalking her and has to fight the urge to tear out her throat. Is this a good thing for something to be successful?

 

Is it a good thing to complain about it at every given opportunity? If all I hear is true then it is rubbish, worse it is problematic rubbish, but so are lots of things.

 

 

it does kind of make you think though. Is there so little that directly appeals to teenage girls, even having a teen girl as the protagonist that even something as poorly done as Twilight will be super successful? It shows that teen girls and young women have huge buying power and should be appealed to more often (hopefully in a more skillful and thought out way).

 

It'd be nice if they had better things to buy as well.

[Steelcan]

Now I'm imagining the same people I know who read Twilight playing Dragon Age....

[aTigerslunch]

Well, not exactly teen.     I got the idea for sure. It makes sense, and it should be looked at. Young women wanted a female protag and enjoyed Twilight cause of her. Their is alot of untapped money that some companies arent trying (their own failure to not try and engage that source of income for themselves). 

 

At same time, they need to be sure its advertised, showing a female in general public. Instead of using the words, change appearance which isnt detailing enough, Play as male or female, would help on back of box covers.

[syllogi]

A story about a one-dimensional female heroine whose life revolves around a creepy, sparkly vampire who has a penchant for stalking her and has to fight the urge to tear out her throat. Is this a good thing for something to be successful?

 

I dared to mention both Twilight and Kim Kardashian: Hollywood as things that made a LOT of money and were made for and marketed to girls.  GASP.  No, it doesn't mean that these products are good, or that they should be models for other products marketed towards women.  It just means that girls (and full grown women) have disposable income, and they spend it, when things are made with them in mind, whether or not those things are "good."  So claiming that women don't play the "right" kind of games right now doesn't fly.  If games are made and marketed with women in mind, or are even just respectful of women while still being marketed for men (like how the Avengers movies are), women will buy them.

 

Batman is a jerk.  Superman is dull.  But something about their stories resonated with people, and over time, because those stories were handled by many creators, they've both gotten way more substance and depth, and you can't just dismiss those characters based on one sentence summaries of who they are.  I'm not saying that Bella Swan deserves tons of products based on her, but if more female oriented stories got the same kind of treatment as heroes like Superman and Batman, then maybe we'd have better products geared towards women.

[AlexiaRevan]

Even when they do put womens...it is aimed at the boys usually . I think the issue isn't show us more womens...but target more womens toward womens . 

[RevilFox]

On the subject of Twilight, I'll just leave a link to the first page of my favorite Tumblr ever: http://reasoningwith.../post/871670643

 

I think the idea of Twilight being popular because it's one of the few things aimed at that specific audience is sort of an interesting one and deserves to be explored. I'm not sure if it's actually true or not, as novels tend to be better about this kind of thing than other kinds of media, but it's a very interesting thought.

[Gregolian]

I saw Twilight mentioned......

 

@syllogi

As a male I can say that I absolutely despise both Batman and Superman.  They are both..  well, too perfect.  Tony Stark and Punisher are both better as far as I am concerned.  At least they have flaws.

[Deviija]

If they had one for the male athletes that might be good too to give the male heros something realistic to aspire to Mshep, Ryan, and Snake do good jobs of being sort of normal but then again if they made a male photo like that would we think those characters were average or unusual compared to actual men of top fitness? 

 

Howard's book covered the different shapes and forms of dude athletes too.  You can see some of them on this page here.  And, you can get a neat compilation graphic of all the men and women here.

[Ryzaki]

Now I'm imagining the same people I know who read Twilight playing Dragon Age....

 

The first one wasn't that bad actually.

 

New Moon is where it started getting absurd but by that time you're already in so might as well kept going down XD

[Ziggy]

Howard's book covered the different shapes and forms of dude athletes too.  You can see some of them on this page here.  And, you can get a neat compilation graphic of all the men and women here.

 

That is interesting - so much variation! Also the female and male really don't look all that different. 

And yet the 'idealised' versions in games invariably exaggerate the muscles on males chars while giving the women noodle arms

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Also hunger games >>>>>...>>> twilight. Just sayin'.

[Ryzaki]

Hunger games was excellent until book 3 where Katniss pretty much becomes a shell and it beats you over the head with the war is bad mmmkay message.

 

Bella at least was ridiculous from the jump so it wasn't as painful to watch Katniss went from decent to god why and it hurt.

[Nefla]

That is interesting - so much variation! Also the female and male really don't look all that different. 

And yet the 'idealised' versions in games invariably exaggerate the muscles on males chars while giving the women noodle arms

 

Spoiler

 

 

Yeah, the exaggerated sexual dimorphism in the media (especially completely fake things like video games, comic books, and cartoons)is pretty extreme. You have a lot of people who rant that women warriors are unrealistic because "no woman could ever beat a man in combat" because they see the idealized male (big and muscular) next to the idealized female (small, weak, and sexy) and assume everyone adheres to that in build (if not level of attractiveness). However when you look at real men and women the difference is much smaller and even reversed in certain individuals on a case by case basis.

[Grieving Natashina]

And what are these "right" kind of games you speak of?

It falls into the whole "casuals" versus "hardcore" nonsense, only with some nice sexism attached.  The stereotype I've seen usually goes like this:

 

 "Hardcore" players "always" play games like CoD, Starcraft, GTA, Battlefield, Uncharted, Dark Souls, ect ect.  Or they are serious MMO players that raid a lot.  They usually play games several hours a week.    As a result, they are "true gamers," whatever the hell that's supposed to mean.  

 

"Causal" players "only" like games like Facebook games and the Sims.  Or if they play MMOs, it's only for a few hours at a time  They can't handle any other kind game.   You know, as long as you ignore folks that might not have a lot of time to game due to family and work.       

 

Now, replace the word "causal" with "women" and there's your answer.  While it's starting to become easier, plenty of women still get crap like "Girls don't play real games," flung at them.   Never mind the fact that guys enjoy these causal games as well, and plenty of women enjoy the games that are considered "hardcore."  

 

The whole thing is just stupid.  Growing up,  my brother's friends played Tetris, and I played Double Dragon with my female friends.  We both played Mario Kart as well as Mortal Kombat.  We both enjoyed RPGs (still do) as well as puzzle games.  

 

I think ~15 years or so of Booth Babes (gag me); over-sexualized women in our games; women being used as rewards for the player more often than not; women getting rejected for PC; poor budgeting for half-hearted advertisement for the games that do have a female hero; this mentality just started to fester.  It makes me a little sad and disgusted every time I see it come up. 

[karushna5]

My issue with Twilight is there is certainly the idea of "real love" being possessive. Also her suicidal tendencies when he leaves and it being portrayed as romantic is kinda messed up. Otherwise? There has been worse, and there will be worse that gets less issue. personally I feel those books get a lot of hate based off the idea of Mary Sues. Which I always felt was grounded very firmly in the idea that women are so often portrayed as less or defined by their womanhood that women empowerment fantasies are thought unbelievable.

 

Tony Stark, Batman, Superman, Capt America, Thor, innumerable video game characters, would be challenged as Mary Sues, if women, for far graver offenses than Bella. And honestly, they have some pretty messed up ideas that are bad for the boys they are marketed to (were marketed when comics were children appropriate) and are lauded.

 

Also the fact they sparkle in the sunlight isnt the worst rendition of vampires being really unscary. When I was a kid, my vampires drank ketchup. And goodness be, how many vamps don't have anything happen to them during the day, rendering huge portions of their lore a moot point?

 

Also, I think our culture is vastly more accepting of unrealistic and unprecedented manliness as being cool, but things that are unrealistic and unprecedentedly  feminine are the absolute worst. So much so that when a field becomes woman dominated that is when it loses its prestige and when women leave a field that is when it gains prestige. The fact I have to mention Dragon Age or Fire Emblem 6 times when purchasing Sims or Harvest Moon, because I, a feminist gamer, am embarrassed of buying something for girls, shows theres an issue of what is legitimate or not.

 

In this thread we had to argue that people who play the SIMS and other games are not the only number comprising women, and I fear in any battle to gain recognition there is some call to put down what is considered "bad" girly things. Honestly? I think it is important that while we are allowed to have strong "kickass" women characters. We also get "the heroine's Journey" type of games. Ones based on introspection and overcoming obstacles in self realization. Also games that prioritize social interaction above physical violence. Contrast, Gone Home, Broken Age, are more games that focus on the "feminine" than the masculine, but that is beyond a discussion of just Bioware.

 

I just feel media is pretty blind to the fact that super heroes, sword and sorcery, and dark action games are preposterously masculine to the point of absurdity because it is a power fantasy and most power fantasies are ridiculous. i am annoyed that often the power fantasies of women are so lambasted that many face the choice of completely rejecting them or absorbing the hate and feeling bad about it. Internalized Misogyny or Low Self Esteem? A bit of both? The fact one seems more believable is much more to do with its saturation over long periods than actual merit of believability.

[AlexiaRevan]

 

Mary Sues.

I do hate that word .

I saw it being used against Liara (Bioware wanted her to be your cannon romance , she was the writer pet) and against Tallis . Blah......I don't get why females get so much negative focus . I mean on one hand , male dominate games . On the others , they buzz and whine about females charchater in game . Don't you see what monster you are creating ??? 

 I see it so often.........I have to format my brain on a daily basis . So sick of it . 

[syllogi]

And what are these "right" kind of games you speak of?

 

I've seen a lot of people on this forum (and in this thread) dismiss the recent stats about female gamers as not being valid because female gamers tend to play more mobile and casual games (aka "wrong" kinds for those people).  I think that it really doesn't matter, there's nothing stopping a person who has only played Dance Central and Hexic from branching out, and playing those games doesn't make the player any less likely (or smart or capable enough) to play games like DA:I.