Well said. Me and my girlfriends played games regularly in the 90s... From Mario Cart to shooters.
*ancient lady gamers fist bump* I had my Nintendo since I was four. I've been playing ever since. I don't understand the mentality of "girls are new" thing. When most gamers are middle aged and more than 40% are women... well... sweets. That probably means that they're the same age as anyone else that started gaming back when the Commodore 64 was big. ((Impossible: Mission was awesome))
@SleepyBird.
People such as yourself aren't new, and I'm not saying that women never used to play video games (when I was 16, there was a RuneScaper whom I adored, though that's another story.) But you can't deny that female interests in video games have gone up recently. It hasn't always been at this level. I spent a lot of primary school and high school being laughed at by most of the girls for playing handhelds and flash games during free-time. And now I'm on a forum reading about their desires to be included and catered for more in those very games.
As far as I'm concerned, they're more than welcome, but it does evoke a little bitterness in me. I could've been a pretty popular guy, if only the ladies had had their little revelation that "Wow, games are fun!" just a few years earlier.
I hear that. Funny, I actually had the same experience but from the other side... guys not thinking I'm cool. Actually guys STILL don't think I'm cool for playing games but aaaanyway...
I think this topic can really open up a huge can of worms. Is there really a surge in female gamers lately, or is it that more women have the confidence to be more vocal about this hobby? After all, there is still a stigma attached to the word "gamer". Maybe it was more of a secret guilty pleasure before but isn't so much now. If there is a surge in female gamers, what is it due to? Better (but not perfect) marketing? Shift in society's dynamics?
Meh.
@SleepyBird.
People such as yourself aren't new, and I'm not saying that women never used to play video games (when I was 16, there was a RuneScaper whom I adored, though that's another story.) But you can't deny that female interests in video games have gone up recently. It hasn't always been at this level. I spent a lot of primary school and high school being laughed at by most of the girls for playing handhelds and flash games during free-time. And now I'm on a forum reading about their desires to be included and catered for more in those very games.
As far as I'm concerned, they're more than welcome, but it does evoke a little bitterness in me. I could've been a pretty popular guy, if only the ladies had had their little revelation that "Wow, games are fun!" just a few years earlier.
You're lamenting about the progression of the video game industry to becoming more mainstream. Not the lack of girl gamers. We were there getting made fun of too. Until Playstation and the SEGA channel... there just weren't many of us around.
((funny side note, all the gamers I knew at a young and tender age were... GIRLS. Go figure. The boys were just too into football. The nerds.))
LOL Suddenly Zazzerka's bitterness makes sense....
The industry is very foolish if it continues to ignore women (as a whole, not BioWare). I have a friend, a non-gamer, who has been telling me about how excited she is to have found this new game for her phone. It basically sounds like an Age of Empires type game. She's in some kind of guild or clan and has been chatting with several people in her "clan." She talks non-stop about this game! She has even asked to come play xbox with me a time or two (but at present I only have one controller, so...).
I mean, this person is literally yearning to spend her money on an industry that doesn't think she's worth marketing to. *smh*
I feel like this is an attack on my intelligence. Your plans for a world filled with Amazonian princesses and oiled up twinks weren't clear in your original post.
While such a world would be very confusing, I don't think it's an accurate analogue. And for the record, I don't disagree with the OP. I hope you get the representation you desire, and I do think that you will, eventually. You're just kind of new on the gaming scene.
Wow. Hostile...
No one's trying to attack your intelligence. I'm just pointing out that most male characters aren't appealing to most women, and in MOST games--not Bioware's, but most, we're expected to be okay with our characters jiggling around in less than a bikini for armor, while the guys get full armor. I was painting a picture of why no, all females everywhere wouldn't be eye candy for you. You seemed to be picturing more shapely, clean-cut, females, which is basically the standard female character everywhere. In reality, the gaming world can be incredibly uncomfortable if you are a straight female (or, I'm sure, if you're a gay male or gay female, but I can only speak for my own experience).
I'm basically just pointing out that we deal with a lot of crap. And I don't think women are "new to the scene" of gaming, since I've been gaming for years. I suspect a lot of girls started gaming on old Apple IIe computers and the like, with edutainment type games. Or they played Mario and the like with their brothers. And a lot more are getting into gaming because their brothers are having a great time with it, why can't they? Or their boyfriends, or their husbands... people begin gaming at all ages, even.
And sexualized males, by the way, aren't necessarily gay, nor would it be a bad thing if they were. Nor does anyone "plan" on a world of Amazonian princesses--or if they do I have no part in that plan. This was a picture I was painting by reversing the gender of what is already out there. It's not what I'd actually want, though in ONE game, for comedy's sake, it might be tolerable. And guys wonder why we don't all think that the male characters are eye candy...
That said, I maintain my stance that I'd like to see ONE character like the one I described, and to see her taken seriously rather than comedically. It's not because I want an ugly character. I'd like her as supporting cast or an NPC or something though, someone who's taken seriously and seen as a major badass and who is basically the female version of most of the overly muscular male characters in various other franchises. Why? Only to show how ridiculous the scruffy overly muscled dude character is, and how tired and overused. And also how we tend to put way too much expectation into female characters, no matter who they are or what they do for a living, being attractive. I doubt most people would comprehend the reasoning behind it though.
But back on topic:
I appreciate Allan Schumacher's weighing in on the issues. I still think it would be ideal if both male and female assets could be developed at the same time, but I appreciate that apparently females for whatever reason take longer to develop. Asking for women to come first is maybe another issue entirely. I just don't like that we're treated as an afterthought. It even happened with the female turians. All I want is to see some marketing thrown at the lady gamers out there who might be more inclined to buy if they know they can be badasses too.
As far as I'm concerned, they're more than welcome, but it does evoke a little bitterness in me. I could've been a pretty popular guy, if only the ladies had had their little revelation that "Wow, games are fun!" just a few years earlier.
Conversely, I tried to join the Video Games club in high school (in '01-ish) and was dubbed "not a real gamer" so I quit. I think we should all just be happy that it's becoming more accessible and acceptable 
I think Bioware is generally great in this regard, especially when compared to others, but it won't stop me from pushing for more. If we're going to end up with equality in gaming anyway, why drag it out?
We were there getting made fun of too.
Then you should've bloody said something. We had Rome: Total War LAN parties in the library during lunch. You'd have been more than welcome.
Maybe rural Australian high-schools are just particularly unforgiving, because the teasing was relentless.
Is there really a surge in female gamers lately, or is it that more women have the confidence to be more vocal about this hobby? After all, there is still a stigma attached to the word "gamer". Maybe it was more of a secret guilty pleasure before but isn't so much now. If there is a surge in female gamers, what is it due to? Better (but not perfect) marketing? Shift in society's dynamics?
Meh.
Well, it has to do with marketing and gender. In the 80s, video games and toys alike were often marketed to both genders. Around the time of the 90s and 2000s, however, extreme gendering in marketing to children began to appear. Believe it or not, you can partially blame Disney -- their Disney Princess brand began in 2000; that's about when the toy isle became utterly divided, with one side being totally sparkly and pink and the other filled with legos and, let's face is, other way cooler toys.
I always loved video games, but my brother was given the Sega Genesis, not me. Yet in the 80s, my sister and I -- not my brother -- played on the Commodore 64. In the 90s, my brother was given the handheld gaming device to play on during vacations; my sister and I read books.
It's changing because we're adults now, and we're independent, and it's occurring to us that if we want to buy an xbox then damn it, who's going to stop us?
@SleepyBird.
People such as yourself aren't new, and I'm not saying that women never used to play video games (when I was 16, there was a RuneScaper whom I adored, though that's another story.) But you can't deny that female interests in video games have gone up recently. It hasn't always been at this level. I spent a lot of primary school and high school being laughed at by most of the girls for playing handhelds and flash games during free-time. And now I'm on a forum reading about their desires to be included and catered for more in those very games.
As far as I'm concerned, they're more than welcome, but it does evoke a little bitterness in me. I could've been a pretty popular guy, if only the ladies had had their little revelation that "Wow, games are fun!" just a few years earlier.
You were playing a handheld IN PUBLIC?!?
I feel more powerful and outspoken now that I have expendable income that game companies want. It's like the feeling of finally being able to vote (except in the gaming market, I might actually have an impact on things 
). Turning things around seems like an uphill battle, though, since many gaming companies see a larger return on investing in advertisements that target boys/men.
@Mes, I'd totally go back to school for that
You were playing a handheld IN PUBLIC?!?
It was my first Gameboy Color. I'm not going to show that sh*t off?
Well, it has to do with marketing and gender. In the 80s, video games and toys alike were often marketed to both genders. Around the time of the 90s and 2000s, however, extreme gendering in marketing to children began to appear. Believe it or not, you can partially blame Disney -- their Disney Princess brand began in 2000; that's about when the toy isle became utterly divided, with one side being totally sparkly and pink and the other filled with legos and, let's face is, other way cooler toys.
I always loved video games, but my brother was given the Sega Genesis, not me. Yet in the 80s, my sister and I -- not my brother -- played on the Commodore 64. In the 90s, my brother was given the handheld gaming device to play on during vacations; my sister and I read books.
It's changing because we're adults now, and we're independent, and it's occurring to us that if we want to buy an xbox then damn it, who's going to stop us?
Not only that, but look what the gender divide has done to Barbie. She used to have actual careers along with her fashion. Now the franchise is failing and I can't help but think it's got something to do with the fact that Barbie is all about fashion nowadays, and not a successful woman with a job that little girls can aspire to. Sure, Barbie was always for girls (edit: at least, once she stopped being a pornography doll) and she was (as far as I know) always very pink, but before everything for girls got so hyper-feminized, she was way more interesting. Even when I was a kid, she didn't do anything more interesting other than be Wedding Day Barbie. I did have a Rock Star Barbie and a Camping Barbie... but still.
Marketing matters. As CuriousArtemis says, it isn't that long ago when, say, Legos stopped being marketed toward all kids, and just toward boys (except for Lego Friends). I remember playing with bricks, not kits. I loved them and I always wanted to have more bricks than I did, so I could build cooler stuff. But now they have the kits, and kids don't even consider just building whatever they want. If they'd make the toys a bit more gender-neutral (apparently Lego's marketing team only discovered that girls preferred more realistic people LEGOs, and that they would build a little, play, and build a little more, so really why all the pastel and prefab?), all the kids could play together. It isn't that there's no difference in gender at all, but marketing and the media cause a lot of the perceived differences. Overall we are not nearly as different as the media loves to tell us we are. In the end we're all just people. And that alone is enough reason that I think marketing should have some balance for each gender.
Honestly, if Bioware wanted a genius woman-oriented marketing scheme? Just show a few clips of the female Inquisitor smooching on a hot love interest. Then show the same with a male Inquisitor and a female love interest. Romance is something that appeals to almost everyone.
Turning things around seems like an uphill battle, though, since many gaming companies see a larger return on investing in advertisements that target boys/men.
Well, straight men, anyway! Usually white straight men.
And.... disposable incomes are awesome 
Then you should've bloody said something. We had Rome: Total War LAN parties in the library during lunch. You'd have been more than welcome.
Maybe rural Australian high-schools are just particularly unforgiving, because the teasing was relentless.
I spent my lunch hour in middle school playing on the MAC in my GT class because that was the only PC that had POLICE QUEST 2 on it.
Not only that, but look what the gender divide has done to Barbie. She used to have actual careers along with her fashion. Now the franchise is failing and I can't help but think it's got something to do with the fact that Barbie is all about fashion nowadays, and not a successful woman with a job that little girls can aspire to. Sure, Barbie was always for girls (edit: at least, once she stopped being a pornography doll) and she was (as far as I know) always very pink, but before everything for girls got so hyper-feminized, she was way more interesting. Even when I was a kid, she didn't do anything more interesting other than be Wedding Day Barbie. I did have a Rock Star Barbie and a Camping Barbie... but still.
Marketing matters. As CuriousArtemis says, it isn't that long ago when, say, Legos stopped being marketed toward all kids, and just toward boys (except for Lego Friends). I remember playing with bricks, not kits. I loved them and I always wanted to have more bricks than I did, so I could build cooler stuff. But now they have the kits, and kids don't even consider just building whatever they want. If they'd make the toys a bit more gender-neutral (apparently Lego's marketing team only discovered that girls preferred more realistic people LEGOs, and that they would build a little, play, and build a little more, so really why all the pastel and prefab?), all the kids could play together. It isn't that there's no difference in gender at all, but marketing and the media cause a lot of the perceived differences. Overall we are not nearly as different as the media loves to tell us we are. In the end we're all just people. And that alone is enough reason that I think marketing should have some balance for each gender.
Honestly, if Bioware wanted a genius woman-oriented marketing scheme? Just show a few clips of the female Inquisitor smooching on a hot love interest. Then show the same with a male Inquisitor and a female love interest. Romance is something that appeals to almost everyone.
Hell. Just keep the "Cut to Inquisitor" section of marketing schemes balanced. I would be just as happy watching an female Inquisitor stomp on some Darkspawn as I would seeing her dance in an Orlesian ball. I'm not picky. I just want something that says, "there be women here".
I appreciate Allan Schumacher's weighing in on the issues. I still think it would be ideal if both male and female assets could be developed at the same time, but I appreciate that apparently females for whatever reason take longer to develop. Asking for women to come first is maybe another issue entirely. I just don't like that we're treated as an afterthought. It even happened with the female turians. All I want is to see some marketing thrown at the lady gamers out there who might be more inclined to buy if they know they can be badasses too.
Just to clarify, my supposition is merely a deduction from that link where the developers said they found it a constant challenge to keep a lot of their historic tropes for creating women characters in check. In this sense, it may be slower, simply because there's the challenge of smashing down those inappropriate preconceptions. But I'd consider it a temporary thing. But I'm also applying the experiences those artists had with ours, which may not be fair.
With respect to choosing to focus on the women assets first, it's just part of the (slow...) process I think. I think it will happen eventually... but I'm not privy to the types of challenges that may come up by suggesting we (or any other studio) do so. I went to my first ever PAX this year, though, and it's painfully clear how appealing our games seem to be for women given the large amount of women that came to talk. I didn't really take polls on the distribution, but in terms of the people that were interested in talking games with me was probably about 90% women.
Just to clarify, my supposition is merely a deduction from that link where the developers said they found it a constant challenge to keep a lot of their historic tropes for creating women characters in check. In this sense, it may be slower, simply because there's the challenge of smashing down those inappropriate preconceptions. But I'd consider it a temporary thing. But I'm also applying the experiences those artists had with ours, which may not be fair.
With respect to choosing to focus on the women assets first, it's just part of the (slow...) process I think. I think it will happen eventually... but I'm not privy to the types of challenges that may come up by suggesting we (or any other studio) do so. I went to my first ever PAX this year, though, and it's painfully clear how appealing our games seem to be for women given the large amount of women that came to talk. I didn't really take polls on the distribution, but in terms of the people that were interested in talking games with me was probably about 90% women.
Do you think there's a disconnect between anecdotes like these and the way the game is marketed? From the DA2 campaign you'd swear the marketing department were pitching at an audience of 12 year old boys, with the rock music trailers and "fighting like a Spartan" etc. I know that it's a minefield to start stereotyping groups of fans, but (again, anecdotally) it seems that many of the players most invested in the characters and roleplaying aspects of the games are women. Certainly from my own experiences at Bioware events (I was at PAX Australia) there were a huge number of incredibly fun, enthusiastic female players.
Although it's marketing's job to get the game out to as wide and as mainstream an audience as possible, couldn't the bombastic (and occasionally unpleasantly macho) ad campaigns actually turn away fans who are more interested in exploration, story or characters?
Do you think there's a disconnect between anecdotes like these and the way the game is marketed? From the DA2 campaign you'd swear the marketing department were pitching at an audience of 12 year old boys, with the rock music trailers and "fighting like a Spartan" etc. I know that it's a minefield to start stereotyping groups of fans, but (again, anecdotally) it seems that many of the players most invested in the characters and roleplaying aspects of the games are women. Certainly from my own experiences at Bioware events (I was at PAX Australia) there were a huge number of incredibly fun, enthusiastic female players.
Although it's marketing's job to get the game out to as wide and as mainstream an audience as possible, couldn't the bombastic (and occasionally unpleasantly macho) ad campaigns actually turn away fans who are more interested in exploration, story or characters?
I wonder this too sometimes...If the marketing people are relying upon old assumptions rather than an understanding of the current audience.
I've played games for years, since I was six--I'm in my thirties now--but a marketing campaign has never succesfully sold me a game to date. And this is mostly because I don't generally want to play as a straight white dude. (I have, at times, but not often.) I've found games to play after they've been released and friends have told me they have options.
I probably would have bought at launch or pre-ordered more games if I were aware ahead of time or if they made it clear there was a decent CC available.
I didn't really take polls on the distribution, but in terms of the people that were interested in talking games with me was probably about 90% women.
Straight male here saying that the above makes me real happy. Says a lot about where gaming might be going in the future, with more equal emphasis and attention being given to everyone.
I'm most excited to see some female dwarf and qunari models, seeing as how neither existed in DA2, and those are the races I'm most psyched to play.
I hate the Qun. I hate every aspect of its "please enslave me" mentality. However, the creatures we've usually called qunari, or kossith, are damn interesting to me. I am very strongly leaning toward playing on on my first go around, because I don't think I've played that sort of "heretical minority" character in a game before. I'd love to see more of the qunari chicks.
I think all qunari protagonists have been confirmed to be Tal-Vashoth, which neatly sidesteps the necessity to make them adherents of the qun.
(Of course, to everyone else you're still an eight-foot tall walking monster, but it means qunari Inquisitors can be more or less as free as the other protagonists in terms of mindset and decisions.)
I think all qunari protagonists have been confirmed to be Tal-Vashoth, which neatly sidesteps the necessity to make them adherents of the qun.
(Of course, to everyone else you're still an eight-foot tall walking monster, but it means qunari Inquisitors can be more or less as free as the other protagonists in terms of mindset and decisions.)
Confirmed to be VASHOTH, not Tal-Vashoth. The difference being, as I understand, a qunari that was not BORN into the Qun rather than one that BROKE from the Qun. Big difference I think.
I wonder this too sometimes...If the marketing people are relying upon old assumptions rather than an understanding of the current audience.
I've played games for years, since I was six--I'm in my thirties now--but a marketing campaign has never succesfully sold me a game to date. And this is mostly because I don't generally want to play as a straight white dude. (I have, at times, but not often.) I've found games to play after they've been released and friends have told me they have options.
I probably would have bought at launch or pre-ordered more games if I were aware ahead of time or if they made it clear there was a decent CC available.
I will admit to this. I jump on the chance to play any game with a female lead. I even played HunteD: Demon's Forge and it was horribad just because it had a female lead.
Any male led game I ususally wait until I can get it cheap unless there is something else that draws me in. A few companies get automatic passes, they pass go, and they collect my $200. That would be Bioware, because I KNOW all of their games have a CC and I can play a woman and Naughty Dawg, because I know that while they have an unforgettable male lead they will ALSO have some excellent characters who happen to be female (Elena, Chloe, Ellie, etc). Resident Evil because as much as they fanservice the men, they ALSO include the same smoldering shots (and nice butt angles) of good looking men for me to ogle. Oh, and Saint's Row because I KNOW they embrace the whole CC thing with a passion and they don't discriminate between the genders (if I wanna play a buff dude that wears ponytails and a thong or if I wanna play a tomboy girl with giant basketball jerseys I can).
Anything else I pick up used or highly discounted.
That's pretty sad when you consider that maybe 60% of my disposable income goes to video games. So, video game industries would get MORE of my money by being more female friendly.
Confirmed to be VASHOTH, not Tal-Vashoth. The difference being, as I understand, a qunari that was not BORN into the Qun rather than one that BROKE from the Qun. Big difference I think.
Oops, I'm not too familiar with the qunari at all.
So there are some qunari that were born outside the Qun? And they have a special name? That's fascinating from a story point of view.
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