9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Gileadan]

I'm all in favor of giving the female inquisitor equal screen/marketing time. Choosing your protagonist's gender is a strength and a cool feature of the game, so why not advertise it? Go ahead BioWare, have an inquisitor lady take name and kick posteriors!  

 

I have to admit though, I don't find the statement "45% (or whatever number) of gamers are female" very useful. It's an aggregated number, calculated over several platforms and genres, and since gaming genres are quite diverse, this value ultimately means little. I think different demographics like different things in games, and it's not helpful to lump everything into this single number. It's like stating "57% of all book readers are female", and then use that as an argument that books of a certain genre need to be more appealing to women.

 

Half of the world's population is made up of women. There's your potential target audience, no data aggregation necessary.

[Lady Nuggins]

I have to admit though, I don't find the statement "45% (or whatever number) of gamers are female" very useful. It's an aggregated number, calculated over several platforms and genres, and since gaming genres are quite diverse, this value ultimately means little. I think different demographics like different things in games, and it's not helpful to lump everything into this single number. It's like stating "57% of all book readers are female", and then use that as an argument that books of a certain genre need to be more appealing to women.

 

Half of the world's population is made up of women. There's your potential target audience, no data aggregation necessary.

 

I agree, but unfortunately, many people (mostly male gamers) refuse to believe that any women are gaming at all, let alone enough to make up nearly half of all gamers.  I see it as a starting point, just something to say, "see?  We DO exist!"  But, as I discovered earlier in the thread, this is a more relevant breakdown of those numbers for our particular discussion:

 

"According to a survey done in 2004 by the Entertainment Software Association, 25 percent of console players and 39 percent of PC game players were women."

 

And that is ten years ago.  I'm willing to bet the numbers are much higher now.

[kukumburr]

Whose perception?  Not the ESA's, which I quoted above.  Not any of the industry professionals I've spoken to.

 

Since you haven't bothered to read it, let me pull out the statistics for you.  I'm sure you'll find some way to gainsay them, but what the hell.

 

Of the people who most frequently buy games:45% are women.

Average gamer age: 30 and rising

 

Gamers by age group:

 

32% under 18 years

32% 18-35 years

36% 36+ years

 

There's actually an ESA report from 2014. The same stats from this year:

 

Of the people who most frequently buy games: 50% are women.

Average gamer age: 31

 

Gamers by age group:

 

29% under 18 years

32% 18-35 years

39% 36+ years

 

Also, 52% of game players are male and 48% female compared to last year which was 55% male and 45% female. I think it's also interesting that the number of female gamers age 50 and older increased by 32% from 2012 to 2013. I know that's likely to be mobile games, but I think that shows there IS an interest in gaming there.

 

Anyways while I think more video games should keep the female demographic in mind, what bothers me about the marketing for most Dragon Age and Mass Effect stuff was that it HAS all these great things for female gamers but they choose not to show it. Someone earlier was asking how you would market hyper-masculine games to women, and I would say that they shouldn't. If the game is designed for men then that's fine that they market it just to men. I just won't buy it. But BioWare games are designed for both men and women but they only market to men (for the most part). I just don't think it's an accurate reflection of the game and it feels like wasted potential to me.

 

I'm pretty happy with what they've shown for DA:I so far even though I really would like to see a female protagonist soon. The ambiguous inquisitor on the box art is neat, and even though the trailer has male inquisitor I think Cassandra came across as the bigger badass. It's better than showing the hero with his sexy female sidekick which is usually the case.

[DragonRacer]

 

The truth is that it's extremely easy to get women to play. You just have to invite them. 

 

 

Yup. I've met many women where the mantra that games are "toys for boys" was drilled into them. I often wonder how different their attitude would be had that not happened.

 

I contrast it to my own upbringing, where my Dad showed me how to play Atari 2600 games with him and it sparked a lifelong love and passion for the hobby.

 

I'm now approaching 30, married, and our household contains the Super Nintendo I got for my 10th birthday (still works, and I still occasionally play it for nostalgia as it was my first gaming system that *I* owned rather than borrowed from Dad). It also contains a PS2, two PS3s, a PS4, an XBox 360, and a laptop often used for gaming as well. Of all those, only ONE belongs to my husband... one of the PS3s. All the rest of those "boys' toys" are mine and reside in my Woman Cave™. 

[Androme]

If you're not taking this discussion, why do you have a PS parting shot?

 

 

Stating that I feel I have a degree of privilege doesn't mean that I feel guilty about being white

 

1. Because I didn't want to discuss the former topic, I know exactly how it would look like (I've had it a million times), so I started a new one with the PS parting shot.

 

2. You're right, A doesn't neccecarily mean B. But you do feel guilty for being white and male, don't you? I know your type.. You say that you ''have a degree of privilege'', which is probably the epitomy of irony (I presume you identify yourself as antiracist) since you seem to believe that you are automatically in a favourable position compared to non-whites, by default, because you are white and male, am I right or am I ''reading far too much'' into a thread with almost 40 pages seriously discussing the gender of a character on a bloody trailer for a video game..

 

[Darth Krytie]

1. Because I didn't want to discuss the former topic, I know exactly how it would look like (I've had it a million times), so I started a new one with the PS parting shot.

 

2. You're right, A doesn't neccecarily mean B. But you do feel guilty for being white and male, don't you? I know your type.. You say that you ''have a degree of privilege'', which is probably the epitomy of irony (I presume you identify yourself as antiracist) since you seem to believe that you are automatically in a favourable position compared to non-whites, by default, because you are white and male, am I right or am I ''reading far too much'' into a thread with almost 40 pages seriously discussing the gender of a character on a bloody trailer for a video game..

 

 

Why bother even asking Allan the question since you apparently already know his "answers".

 

I have a question for you: Why did you bother even posting here? If you have nothing to bring to the topic but snide comments, why bother posting here at all?

[DragonRacer]

 

There's actually an ESA report from 2014. The same stats from this year:

 

Of the people who most frequently buy games: 50% are women.

Average gamer age: 31

 

 

While I'm all for supporting statistics that show lots of women identify themselves as gamers (I do), I don't really find data about "most frequently bought games" to be very helpful. What would be better is if it identified how many were purchasing games for themselves versus for others, i.e. a mother buying her son (or daughter!) games or a wife buying her husband games - who may not actually be gamers themselves. I say this given the purchasing power of women and how the advertising world largely recognizes that the women of the household make a LOT of the purchasing decisions for that household.

 

I also say this because it is once in a blue moon that my husband bothers to buy a game himself. He usually just asks me to pick up thus-and-so while I'm at GameStop shopping for myself, and that he'll pay me back later. 

[Nefla]

If you make a product for both genders, marketing to both genders is logical to me. Say there was a clothing company that made an equal amount of clothes for men and women as well as a lot of unisex clothing. When it came time to advertise the company's products, the men's and unisex clothing sections were omitted while the women's clothing was in your face "see how slimming these beautiful dresses are" showing only women using the products and only the hyperfeminine aspects such as flowers, crystals, high heels, etc...meanwhile there's this whole men's section of fashionable men's clothing that NO ONE knows about unless they've gone to that store before. The company then comes to the conclusion "well men just don't buy clothes" and decides that their decision not to market to them was the right one.

 

The gaming world is already very unfriendly to women, you can't speak up in a FPS (unless you lie and say you're a 12 year old boy) without being sexually harassed. In MMO's people will often blurt out "women don't play games" into general chat and if you correct them and say "no, I'm a woman and I play games and so do my female friends" they outright dismiss you as a liar and say you are a guy in real life. I don't buy games in stores anymore (I buy online) because I got fed up with the assumptions that any game I was buying was for my non existent husband, boyfriend, or son or being treated like an idiot who would smash the game disc against my head because I was so stupid I thought that was how you play it. What grocery store cashier would look at someone buying a soda and tell them snidely "you know you drink that through your mouth right? You can't pour it up your nose." It would be ridiculous. Yet for some reason it's not only ok but common when it comes to game stores. I've gone in with my male teenage cousin before and the kind of statements and conversation HE gets are "man, this game is awesome, you'll be blown away when you get to chapter 3!"

 

Why on Earth would a non gamer female EVER want to try to muscle her way into that world? A world that blatantly does not want her there. Her gender is advertised as sexed up bimbos and almost never the hero (or if they are the hero, they're still a teen's sexual fantasy like Bayonetta). Games that are already made that she would like are being disguised as shallow, cookie cutter shooters and hack n slash with that same cookie cutter muscular white guy with dark hair and stubble or beard that is in EVERY game. BioWare is hands down one of the best companies when it comes to treatment of female characters and yet even they shove the female PC under the rug in marketing in favor of Mr. generic guy. If the best company still thinks you pretty much don't exist or aren't important then what hope is there for the industry as a whole?

 

A lot of guys wonder why we're making a big deal out of this but really until you spend your whole life basically told you are unwelcome in a hobby that you hold dear, you can't truly understand (though hopefully this thread will help). Someday I hope the gaming industry is like the rest of media where companies aren't afraid of and actively try to appeal to both genders(Avatar, Star Trek, etc...) as well as making women focused and men focused things with equal care (ex: pride and prejudice/the fast and the furious).

[Allan Schumacher]

But you do feel guilty for being white and male, don't you?

 

I absolutely do not.  Why should I?

 

 

 

 

I know your type.. You say that you ''have a degree of privilege'', which is probably the epitomy of irony (I presume you identify yourself as antiracist) since you seem to believe that you are automatically in a favourable position compared to non-whites, by default, because you are white and male, am I right or am I ''reading far too much'' into a thread with almost 40 pages seriously discussing the gender of a character on a bloody trailer for a video game..

 

I recognize that I can get pulled over by a police officer where I live and that there is a greater chance of me not getting a ticket than if I had darker skin colour.  I recognize that I can openly share my sexual orientation and that hardly anyone (if anyone) is going to say anything about it, let alone judge me for it.  I recognize that I can walk around a comic convention in cosplay and virtually no one will question whether or not I am a legit fan, nor will I get inappropriately touched simply because I'm wearing a costume.  Calgary ComiCon just happened, and one of my friends who is an avid cosplayer (and an excellent one at that) was happy because she was only fondled ONCE and declared it a new record for her.

 

 

I don't feel guilty that I'm a straight, white, male gamer.  I can't control any of that and there's nothing for me to feel guilty about it.  Recognizing the reality that these traits can provide me benefits is simply recognizing reality.

 

That I believe I am in a favourable position has nothing to do with whether or not I feel guilty about it.  I don't think anyone here would get the impression that I feel guilty nor that I should, either.

[Aimi]

I have a question for you: Why did you bother even posting here? If you have nothing to bring to the topic but snide comments, why bother posting here at all?

Hey, that's unfair. All I make are snide comments, too!

...it's just that my snide comments aren't hurtful. Usually. 

[DragonRacer]

@ Nefla

 

I absolutely LOVE the clothing store example you made. I thought that was very well done and quite appropriate.

 

However, I did want to single out this portion:

 

 

The gaming world is already very unfriendly to women, you can't speak up in a FPS (unless you lie and say you're a 12 year old boy) without being sexually harassed. In MMO's people will often blurt out "women don't play games" into general chat and if you correct them and say "no, I'm a woman and I play games and so do my female friends" they outright dismiss you as a liar and say you are a guy in real life. I don't buy games in stores anymore (I buy online) because I got fed up with the assumptions that any game I was buying was for my non existent husband, boyfriend, or son or being treated like an idiot who would smash the game disc against my head because I was so stupid I thought that was how you play it. What grocery store cashier would look at someone buying a soda and tell them snidely "you know you drink that through your mouth right? You can't pour it up your nose." It would be ridiculous. Yet for some reason it's not only ok but common when it comes to game stores. I've gone in with my male teenage cousin before and the kind of statements and conversation HE gets are "man, this game is awesome, you'll be blown away when you get to chapter 3!"

 

 

It felt like you were speaking in absolutes there, although I'm sure you probably just meant that "a lot" of women feel that way or have been treated that way. The last direction I, for one, would like to see the discussion going is to point a finger at all the male gamers and say "shame on you" because they aren't ALL treating us that way. Not by a long shot.

 

I've been gaming online with a headset since 2007; largely played an online arcade racing game called Motorstorm and ME3 MP. Granted, roughly 90% of that online gaming time was spent on PS3 and it's also not been with competitive FPS, so maybe it's a different environment, although I have gamed ME3 MP mic'ed up on PC and XBox as well (again, not competitive FPS, so many that's where the majority of the harassment lies?). I guess I've just been incredibly lucky as I have not encountered any cruelty or harassment. On the contrary, most of the guys I have encountered thought it was cool that I was a female gamer and were happy to have me on the team... nobody coddled me, either, just treated me like they did all their male teammates. About the only time I ever encountered any sort of negative behavior, it was relatively minor and it was racing "clan" related rather than gender-based. And I do remember running across one or two guys who asked if I was a woman or a young boy and seemed a little shocked when it turned out I was a woman but, again, I didn't mark that in the negative column as they weren't rude or mean by it, just surprised and then they were cool after that.

 

I also think it's awful you feel you can't go to gaming stores. Yeesh. Awesome way to lose a customer. Again, I suppose I count myself as lucky/fortunate about my local GameStop. I think I recall the first time I went in there, they asked if I was purchasing the game for my husband or son, and I remember giving them a really friendly-but-snarky reply about buying it for myself... and after their initial, "Woah, really?" reaction, they thought it was totally cool. I've since been in there many, many times and they are just as kind and courteous as can be, and we spent the past several months' worth of visits equally pining that we couldn't preorder DA:I yet at the time. LOL Went to a midnight release party for DA2 there and while I was, sadly, the only girl in line, I had a good time talking lore and favorite characters with the guys... and I even managed to kick the store manager's butt at some MLB game with the PS Move they were showcasing to pass the time until midnight. After that incident, I get treated a bit like a walking legend whenever I'm in there now. The "Resident Badass" as a few of them have taken to saying. LMAO 

 

I'm not saying it's not out there or trying to belittle anyone's personal experiences that run counter to mine. I just wanted to point out that it's not totally black and white here, either.

[HuldraDancer]

I haven't read through all the pages yet so I'm most likely repeating things that have been said if so I apologize. While I do like fantasy rpgs I would have never picked up DA:O if my cousin hadn't had told me about it and explained that you could create and customize your own character and it wasn't until a few years later that I picked up Mass Effect since I was so sure you could only play a predetermined character and only found out about the character customization through Fan Art of the game. I was very surprised that the trailer for DA:I didn't even mention a CC (maybe it'll be in another trailer?) and out of curiosity showed the trailer to a friend who prefers games where you can play as a female she had said it looked like a fun game but it seemed odd there was hardly any women in it and didn't consider buying the game until I told her about the CC since the trailer leaves the impression that you -have- to play as a male human that you -have- to be male and get no options. A problem I think would be easily fixed if in the trailer the CC was shown maybe customizing a female dwarf or elf or human or qunari. I can understand how people who have no experience with the dragon age games may get confused if they kept showing many PCs but at the same time showing one PC in the trailers would leave a lot of people new to the series to believe you -have- to play as that character they showed and it does turn female gamers who already feel very isolated away. I'm just saying mentioning the CC would help a lot to reassure a lot of gamers I turned my friend on to DA by mentioning that aspect of the game along with what she saw in the trailer so it really is worth mentioning, because who is really going to go 'do research' on a game they feel isolates them already?

[Darth Krytie]

I also think it's awful you feel you can't go to gaming stores. Yeesh. Awesome way to lose a customer. Again, I suppose I count myself as lucky/fortunate about my local GameStop. I think I recall the first time I went in there, they asked if I was purchasing the game for my husband or son, and I remember giving them a really friendly-but-snarky reply about buying it for myself... and after their initial, "Woah, really?" reaction, they thought it was totally cool. I've since been in there many, many times and they are just as kind and courteous as can be, and we spent the past several months' worth of visits equally pining that we couldn't preorder DA:I yet at the time. LOL Went to a midnight release party for DA2 there and while I was, sadly, the only girl in line, I had a good time talking lore and favorite characters with the guys... and I even managed to kick the store manager's butt at some MLB game with the PS Move they were showcasing to pass the time until midnight. After that incident, I get treated a bit like a walking legend whenever I'm in there now. The "Resident Badass" as a few of them have taken to saying. LMAO 

 

I'm not saying it's not out there or trying to belittle anyone's personal experiences that run counter to mine. I just wanted to point out that it's not totally black and white here, either.

 

Though, even though your experience is better now with your Gamestop, you still had to justify yourself within that space based on assumption of the staff based on your gender alone. A guy wouldn't have had to say "No, I'm buying it for me, not my wife."  

 

(I can also say, however, that my Gamestop worker drones not only haven't ever asked me that, but has more than one female employee working there.)

 

 

I think one of Allan's points was a great way of looking at it. Even if it's only 20 percent, 20 percent is millions of customers. Millions.  If a customer base is in the millions, they are worth marketing to on that alone. Even if you ignore the growing numbers of female gamers, that women control more of household spending (in the US), etc.

[Mes]

I too would like to point out that I've had good experiences shopping at gaming stores. It's been really adorable, actually. Usually the attendees were guys, and when they'd see me they'd get really eager to talk about a game or help me find something I might like. 

 

Point is that while Xbox live and MMOs might overall be riddled with horrible people, a lot of men in this world genuinely enjoy having women around playing the same games as them. It gives the two genders something to talk about!  Therefore I hardly think any of them would object to seeing the odd fem!Inquisitor!!!

 

However, I gotta say that it sort of sucks donkey balls that we have to sit here and placate the powers that be and explain that no don't worry, your precious menzszs won't be put off. Explaining that this is something that is very important for women is obviously not enough - we have to find reasons that this would be important to men, too.

 

What a world we live in. It's 2014. And it's apparently really hard to convince someone that advertising a game that is created for men and women to men and women isn't a "risk" or a fruitless venture.

 

Yikes.

[DragonRacer]

Though, even though your experience is better now with your Gamestop, you still had to justify yourself within that space based on assumption of the staff based on your gender alone. A guy wouldn't have had to say "No, I'm buying it for me, not my wife."  

 

(I can also say, however, that my Gamestop worker drones not only haven't ever asked me that, but has more than one female employee working there.)

 

 

I think one of Allan's points was a great way of looking at it. Even if it's only 20 percent, 20 percent is millions of customers. Millions.  If a customer base is in the millions, they are worth marketing to on that alone. Even if you ignore the growing numbers of female gamers, that women control more of household spending (in the US), etc.

 

Agreed.

 

However, while I found it a bit disheartening that their immediate assumption was that I was purchasing for a male family member and not myself, what I do find encouraging was how quick and happy they were to embrace the idea once I caused their paradigm shift. Now, granted, since they wouldn't dare risk a sale by treating a customer badly, the fact that online male gamers I have interacted with have shown equal quickness and happiness to accept me as a natural part of their gaming space is equally encouraging to me.

 

I just feel like as long as we keep saying, "Yes, I am female and I love gaming just like you do", that slowly change and overall acceptance will come. Even if it's just touching one person at a time and making them see something in a new light. I guarantee you now that every single one of those GameStop employees I've gotten to know - along with the many male gamers I have had fun gaming and talking with - will not react so oddly to encountering another female in their gamespace.

 

Just keep touching one at a time, positively.

[kukumburr]

While I'm all for supporting statistics that show lots of women identify themselves as gamers (I do), I don't really find data about "most frequently bought games" to be very helpful. What would be better is if it identified how many were purchasing games for themselves versus for others, i.e. a mother buying her son (or daughter!) games or a wife buying her husband games - who may not actually be gamers themselves. I say this given the purchasing power of women and how the advertising world largely recognizes that the women of the household make a LOT of the purchasing decisions for that household.

 

I also say this because it is once in a blue moon that my husband bothers to buy a game himself. He usually just asks me to pick up thus-and-so while I'm at GameStop shopping for myself, and that he'll pay me back later. 

 

I agree that the "who most frequently bought games" statistic might not be terribly representative of who's playing. I went back and looked at the ESA summaries for 2006-2014 (2010 was missing) and while the percentage of male/female players has been getting closer to 50/50 the percentage based on gender of who bought games didn't change as much (though some years were missing this data). I put the relevant data in the spoiler if you're curious:

 

Spoiler

2006:

62% M / 38% F playing

No data for buying

 

2007:

62% M / 38% F playing

No data for buying

 

2008:

60% M / 40% F playing

No data for buying

 

2009:

60% M / 40% F playing

52% M / 48% F buying

 

2011:

58% M / 42% F playing

52% M / 48% F buying

 

2012:

53% M / 47% F playing

52% M / 48% F buying

 

2013:

55% M / 45% F playing

54% M / 46% F buying

 

2014:

52% M / 48% F playing

50% M / 50% F buying

 

Anyways I think it's fair to say women are interested in video games and if your game is already inclusive of women players it might be a good idea to advertise that.

[Mes]

Can I point out that when my boyfriend walks into a gaming shop, he is there solely to purchase something for me.

 

So I wouldn't go around assuming that any significant portion of that 50% of ladies at the shop are buying the games for someone else, while the men are buying for themselves.

 

And you know what, if they ARE buying for someone else? Could be for their daughters or sisters or female friends.

[Darth Krytie]

I too would like to point out that I've had good experiences shopping at gaming stores. It's been really adorable, actually. Usually the attendees were guys, and when they'd see me they'd get really eager to talk about a game or help me find something I might like. 

 

Point is that while Xbox live and MMOs might overall be riddled with horrible people, a lot of men in this world genuinely enjoy having women around playing the same games as them. It gives the two genders something to talk about!  Therefore I hardly think any of them would object to seeing the odd fem!Inquisitor!!!

 

However, I gotta say that it sort of sucks donkey balls that we have to sit here and placate the powers that be and explain that no don't worry, your precious menzszs won't be put off. Explaining that this is something that is very important for women is obviously not enough - we have to find reasons that this would be important to men, too.

 

What a world we live in. It's 2014. And it's apparently really hard to convince someone that advertising a game that is created for men and women to men and women isn't a "risk" or a fruitless venture.

 

Yikes.

 

I hear that. I mean, I hate having people make assumptions about women gamers when I've literally been playing video games longer than they have been alive (sometimes). That always kills me a bit. I grew up playing duck hunt and mario and golden axe and sonic and Oregon Trail before I even hit double digits.

 

It usually follows something along the lines of:

 

Women don't game.

Mobile games don't count.

Sims don't count.

Bet your (male dude) plays all the hard parts.

Sure, but women don't play real games like "and here's where they explain what a real game is".

Sure, but you don't play it on "X" difficulty level.

You say that, so how come I don't know any women (actually, they usually call women 'girls') who game in real life.

 

Constantly having to "prove" yourself a "real" gamer to people who never actually want to change their minds about the topic.

 

How many people have come into this thread or threads like it, aggressively opposed to it before even reading anything beyond the title?  And I haven't read one argument opposed to it that consists of more than "men are the majority of gamers" and "you should know which games have which feature by using your Jedi powers of mind-reading".

 

The very basic point is: women are a significant portion of your consumer base. To not market to them is dismissive and borderline sexist as the reasoning for not doing so is based entirely on falsehoods.

[General TSAR]

I have my own opinions of female gamers, but that's nether here or now.

........................

 

Ontopic: I want to see a Fem/Dwarf Inquisitor Rogue featured in a trailer, preferably from a casteless or Legion of the Dead arc.

 

Give the badass Dwarves some love BioWare.

[Allan Schumacher]

Mobile games don't count.
Sims don't count.

 

I personally do not play Mobile games, and I enjoyed The Sims for about a day or two before going "eh, not for me."  But what I always loved about them (especially The Sims) is that I considered it a Gateway game.  People that wouldn't typically consider themselves "gamers" would give them a try.  Same with Nintendo's Wii (which was a platform I enjoyed for a little bit, but was ultimately glad I didn't pick up for myself).

 

Some of those people will play those types of games, and that's all they want... which is fine.  Some, however, will play those games... and then try out different games.  And now some of those people are lobbying for more games that do things that I do enjoy in games.  I consider this a positive and in general am not against the growth of the gaming industry.

[Darth Krytie]

I personally do not play Mobile games, and I enjoyed The Sims for about a day or two before going "eh, not for me."  But what I always loved about them (especially The Sims) is that I considered it a Gateway game.  People that wouldn't typically consider themselves "gamers" would give them a try.  Same with Nintendo's Wii (which was a platform I enjoyed for a little bit, but was ultimately glad I didn't pick up for myself).

 

Some of those people will play those types of games, and that's all they want... which is fine.  Some, however, will play those games... and then try out different games.  And now some of those people are lobbying for more games that do things that I do enjoy in games.  I consider this a positive and in general am not against the growth of the gaming industry.

 

Sims is a game that you play in three day binges before you ignore it for six months.

 

And I don't play mobile games because I like the screen being further away. It's also why I prefer playing on a console to a computer. (Though, I did play Dragon Age: Journeys/Legends when they were out. I don't play the new one cause I don't have an IOS based product).

 

But, yes, sometimes those games are less intimidating for new players than something that requires you to dive into a huge character creator or series that's had multiple predecessors.

 

I recommended Civ 3 to a lot of people who never gamed before because it was awesome, but still approachable for similar reasons

[DragonRacer]

I personally do not play Mobile games, and I enjoyed The Sims for about a day or two before going "eh, not for me."  But what I always loved about them (especially The Sims) is that I considered it a Gateway game.  People that wouldn't typically consider themselves "gamers" would give them a try.  Same with Nintendo's Wii (which was a platform I enjoyed for a little bit, but was ultimately glad I didn't pick up for myself).

 

Some of those people will play those types of games, and that's all they want... which is fine.  Some, however, will play those games... and then try out different games.  And now some of those people are lobbying for more games that do things that I do enjoy in games.  I consider this a positive and in general am not against the growth of the gaming industry.

 

Gateway game - that is an AWESOME phrase and I wholly agree!

 

When I think about when I first learned about gaming and how to game, it was simple, arcade stuff - Pong, Frogger, Pitfall, stuff like that. Games that were tragically simple at their core, from graphics to gameplay, because gaming was just starting to crawl out of its infancy stages. Lord knows I didn't dive straight into the hobby with complicated controls filled with an intimidating number of buttons and games where you can spend hours in the character creator before even getting to the opening tutorial section of gameplay!

 

I would equate Angry Birds and some of those other popular mobile games as being sort of a similar equivalent. An introduction to the concept of gaming that may lead some to explore increasingly advanced levels of gaming. I'd be hard-pressed to blame anyone who's totally new to gaming for not diving in head-first into expensive consoles/PC rigs and all the complications of learning the controls and how everything functions.

 

When kid cousins come over to hang out, I literally have nothing except LittleBigPlanet that I think they could really handle in regards to the "advanced" consoles. That's a great time to whip out my SNES, but not everyone has one of those just laying around. 

[Mes]

Gateway game - that is an AWESOME phrase and I wholly agree!

 

When I think about when I first learned about gaming and how to game, it was simple, arcade stuff - Pong, Frogger, Pitfall, stuff like that. Games that were tragically simple at their core, from graphics to gameplay, because gaming was just starting to crawl out of its infancy stages. Lord knows I didn't dive straight into the hobby with complicated controls filled with an intimidating number of buttons and games where you can spend hours in the character creator before even getting to the opening tutorial section of gameplay!

 

I would equate Angry Birds and some of those other popular mobile games as being sort of a similar equivalent. An introduction to the concept of gaming that may lead some to explore increasingly advanced levels of gaming. I'd be hard-pressed to blame anyone who's totally new to gaming for not diving in head-first into expensive consoles/PC rigs and all the complications of learning the controls and how everything functions.

When kid cousins come over to hang out, I literally have nothing except LittleBigPlanet that I think they could really handle in regards to the "advanced" consoles. That's a great time to whip out my SNES, but not everyone has one of those just laying around. 

 

Awww, Frogger! That brings back memories!!

 

Yeah I think it's easy to forget that we all had to start off somewhere much more simple. To discount all those people who play Sims or Angry Birds as non-gamers and not a potential market to tap into is plain silly.

[Gwydden]

Awww, Frogger! That brings back memories!!

 

Yeah I think it's easy to forget that we all had to start off somewhere much more simple. To discount all those people who play Sims or Angry Birds as non-gamers and not a potential market to tap into is plain silly.

Oh, gods! I've played The Sims and Angry Birds both. And I, I... kinda liked them. Should I be worried? Am I irreparably tainted or something? Oh, gods.

[Mes]

Oh, gods! I've played The Sims and Angry Birds both. And I, I... kinda liked them. Should I be worried? Am I irreparably tainted or something? Oh, gods.

 

Clearly you're not a real gamer and we don't care about you!!!

 

Lol. I've played both and enjoyed them as well. I still play Angry Birds sometimes.

 

I don't think there's realistically any kind of line somewhere, or measuring scale, that explains who is a gamer and who isn't.

 

My opinion is that if you're playing a game, you are a gamer.