9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Bugsie]

@ Alexia, I read a lot of scifi and usually steer away from most fantasy but both the Hobbit and LOTR is worth it, for both story and world building.

[Allan Schumacher]

it helps makes the players of fictional dwarves who don't want their characters to have beards more discriminated against because "dwarven women all have long beards, har har har" even in games where it's far from the norm by lore.  You've never had to deal with it so you don't understand.  Seen grown men fall into acting like school yard bullies over that bearded women crap.

 

Just so that I'm clear here... you feel discriminated against as a person because you like dwarves and feel you get teased for liking dwarves on the basis that people joke that the women have beards?

 

I genuinely am struggling to understand why this is an issue, especially in the single player game.

 

 

EDIT:

I think the reason I'm so sensitive to it, is as a transgender woman, the experience is very similar to people insisting I'm a man, no matter how feminine I am or what I do to be my real self.  So when people insisted my dwarf has a beard despite everything I did and showed to prove otherwise, and despite it being my character, well it strikes a very similar emotional parallel.  So is kind of one of those traumatizing experiences I'm really sensitive too because my real life experiences are wrapped into it.

 

Okay I think I understand better.  I don't understand why this would be mitigated if it was also allowed by a human.  Can you elaborate on that?

[Puppy Love]

Just so that I'm clear here... you feel discriminated against as a person because you like dwarves and feel you get teased for liking dwarves on the basis that people joke that the women have beards?

 

I genuinely am struggling to understand why this is an issue, especially in the single player game.

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

 

Okay I think I understand better.  I don't understand why this would be mitigated if it was also allowed by a human.  Can you elaborate on that?

 

It would be mitigated because it would then be about allowing women in general to play in such a way, not just throwing beards on female dwarves again.  Bearded women exist, being able to grow facial hair as many a woman is possible, as is having a larger adam's apple (which I believe you allow) there's no real good reason why female dwarves are suddenly endowed with facial hair, while human women are not.  They are singled out as Thedus bearded women this way which is frustrating for anyone who dislikes or has issues with the trope, which until now, dragon age did not support. 

 

If it's on humans, dwarves, qunari....  and elves too if you really want to buck tradition, it just becomes a feature and not a statement about dwarves in particular. 

[jncicesp]

yeayeah beards But! they haven't showed female hair(the hair that is on the top of a head) options yet, I don't think, just have shown Dwarven presets and Qunari horns... am I missing something?... or are they the same as the male hair options?

or is this just a commonly known thing and i'm weird for not knowing. or does noone care.

[Eudaemonium]

I think other than the qunari all the hairstyles are shared by the races. They've showed a few dwarf ones, but you could also check the elf and human ones for a broader survey. 

[Nefla]

Will the game mention dwarf women with beards or make fun of dwarf NPC women or dwarf inquisitor women and accuse them of having beards? If it's never mentioned, I will consider it just a meaningless fluff slider.

[Stronglav]

Dwarf women with beards.... Horrible.It's like waking up in bed with sister Petrice.

[Steelcan]

Will the game mention dwarf women with beards or make fun of dwarf NPC women or dwarf inquisitor women and accuse them of having beards? If it's never mentioned, I will consider it just a meaningless fluff slider.

how often do people comment on our appearance anyways?

 

Its not like we get made fun of for being bald, or having a lack of facial hair as a dwarf male in DA:O,

[Nefla]

how often do people comment on our appearance anyways?
 
Its not like we get made fun of for being bald, or having a lack of facial hair as a dwarf male in DA:O,

Maybe not the main character specifically, but comments like "dwarf women are hairier and manlier than most men" or "I've never met a dwarven woman" "you have no way of knowing, they look identical to the men" or "interested in that dwarf lady are you? I didn't know you were into stubble" would all be horrible if they were in the game.

[Steelcan]

Maybe not the main character specifically, but comments like "dwarf women are hairier and manlier than most men" or "I've never met a dwarven woman" "you have no way of knowing, they look identical to the men" or "interested in that dwarf lady are you? I didn't know you were into stubble" would all be horrible if they were in the game.

jokes in poor taste perhaps, not very funny, but horrible?

[Puppy Love]

jokes in poor taste perhaps, not very funny, but horrible?

Playing a character is more or less putting on an avatar, which is much like putting on an outfit.  When you spend a long time making a character you think is beautiful in a race you love, and crawl into your characters skin.  Is like implying a woman's outfit makes her look like a man, when she's spend hours trying to dress up nice and loves her outfit.  Well did love her outfit til that comment anyway...

[drummerchick]

Maybe not the main character specifically, but comments like "dwarf women are hairier and manlier than most men" or "I've never met a dwarven woman" "you have no way of knowing, they look identical to the men" or "interested in that dwarf lady are you? I didn't know you were into stubble" would all be horrible if they were in the game.

Agree and comments like these would be a total waste of resources, which is why I'm fairly certain there won't be any in game. 

[SerTabris]

The Hobbit certainly has its issues, though. I checked how many times the pronouns 'she' and 'her appear in it using Google Books: One and two, respectively, all in the same paragraph on page 3.  So it seems entirely reasonable to me that some people would have no interest in reading it.

[Steelcan]

Playing a character is more or less putting on an avatar, which is much like putting on an outfit.  When you spend a long time making a character you think is beautiful in a race you love, and crawl into your characters skin.  Is like implying a woman's outfit makes her look like a man, when she's spend hours trying to dress up nice and loves her outfit.  Well did love her outfit til that comment anyway...

If you can't handle in game comments on your inquisitor, I really don't know what to tell you

[Steelcan]

The Hobbit certainly has its issues, though. I checked how many times the pronouns 'she' and 'her appear in it using Google Books: One and two, respectively, all in the same paragraph on page 3.  So it seems entirely reasonable to me that some people would have no interest in reading it.

its a kids book about a bunch of male adventurers written in the early 20th century, the lack of a female perspective may be lamentable, but that doesn't make the story any less interesting

 

Unless you can only get into stories where the protagonist is the same gender as you I guess.

[Bugsie]

The Hobbit certainly has its issues, though. I checked how many times the pronouns 'she' and 'her appear in it using Google Books: One and two, respectively, all in the same paragraph on page 3.  So it seems entirely reasonable to me that some people would have no interest in reading it.

So people really make a conscious decision not to read older novels because they don't confirm to what would be considered modern concepts of gender identity, even if it's clear that these ideas weren't hugely widespread when the novels were written?

I don't even know where to start with this.

[In Exile]

So people really make a conscious decision not to read older novels because they don't confirm to what would be considered modern concepts of gender identity, even if it's clear that these ideas weren't hugely widespread when the novels were written?

I don't even know where to start with this.

 

Pretty sure the point is that Tolkien - writing at a time when views that we consider sexist were commonplace - shouldn't really be followed anymore when it comes to the appearance of characters. 

[Bugsie]

Pretty sure the point is that Tolkien - writing at a time when views that we consider sexist were commonplace - shouldn't really be followed anymore when it comes to the appearance of characters.

Whilst I agree that the lack of women is lamentable, I don't hold the same standards to older texts in this regard, but it wasn't all bad is my point and to disregard it because it's 'problematic' (in modern context) means people are missing out on, as I said previously, great story telling and world building. I'm not really sure what you mean by appearance of characters - are you talking about numbers or presentation? Or both perhaps?

[In Exile]

Whilst I agree that the lack of women is lamentable, I don't hold the same standards to older texts in this regard, but it wasn't all bad is my point and to disregard it because it's 'problematic' (in modern context) means people are missing out on, as I said previously, great story telling and world building. I'm not really sure what you mean by appearance of characters - are you talking about numbers or presentation? Or both perhaps?

I thought the context of the comment a response to earlier comments that lady dwarf beards came from Tolkien. Is that clearer?

 

Also, I happen to think the Hobbit is a pretty mediocre to bad book, but that's a YMMV.

[Bugsie]

Yes.

I happen to think The hobbit is a fantastic children's book. I cant wait to read it to my daughter when she's old enough. And if at first she thinks Bilbo is a girl, who am I to correct her? So yes YMMV indeed.

[Nefla]

jokes in poor taste perhaps, not very funny, but horrible?

Yep. I've spent my whole teenage and adult life being the "gross, manly woman" and then having my fictional character who is supposed to be an escape be pointlessly made fun of for the same reason would be horrible for me. Maybe you don't have anything you've been bullied or hurt over but if you have, would you really not care if that bullying attitude was in the game for no reason, especially when it wasn't before?

[In Exile]

Yes.

I happen to think The hobbit is a fantastic children's book. I cant wait to read it to my daughter when she's old enough. And if at first she thinks Bilbo is a girl, who am I to correct her? So yes YMMV indeed.

 

Oh, as a kids book? I loved the hell out of it when I was in grade 3! I thought you meant for adults. 

[In Exile]

Yep. I've spent my whole teenage and adult life being the "gross, manly woman" and then having my fictional character who is supposed to be an escape be pointlessly made fun of for the same reason would be horrible for me. Maybe you don't have anything you've been bullied or hurt over but if you have, would you really not care if that bullying attitude was in the game for no reason, especially when it wasn't before?

 

Personal Trauma: The Videogame. "Relieve everything that made your life shitty!"

 

How could it not succeed? 

[Grieving Natashina]

Personal Trauma: The Videogame. "Relieve everything that made your life shitty!"

 

How could it not succeed? 

There's probably a market for it somewhere.  We live in a world where Goat Sim is a top selling game on Steam.