9318 réponses à ce sujet

[XMissWooX]

I love it when people say that The Sims isn't a 'hardcore' game.
They obviously haven't seen the way I way play it.

[Stelae]

This comment made me a little curious! I, uh...went through 224 comments on twitter and facebook to see which gender people picked: 168 people said they'd be playing as a female inquisitor, 56 as a male inquisitor. In percentages, that's a pretty neat 75% female and 25% male. Interesting numbers, despite the sampling flaw you already pointed out.

Thanks; I was too lazy busy to do it myself. 

 

Of course, a marketer who is similarly lazy set in their ways will use that to justify the status quo.  Rather than saying "ooooh, look at the vast untapped female market out there ... " they'll say say "See?  We're capturing the female audience just fine and we don't need to change anything we are doing ... 75% female response; go us."

 

What they have to be made to realise is although they get a flood of female responses, it's from a comparatively small section of their audience.  Women network, and get into fandom, and hang out for any mention of this stuff, far more than men do.  Get us on side, we're a veritable army. 

[Stelae]

Can I point out that when my boyfriend walks into a gaming shop, he is there solely to purchase something for me.

 

So I wouldn't go around assuming that any significant portion of that 50% of ladies at the shop are buying the games for someone else, while the men are buying for themselves.

 

And you know what, if they ARE buying for someone else? Could be for their daughters or sisters or female friends.

1.  Well, he's a keeper, definitely.

 

2.  You know, you're absolutely right; three of the guys in my role-playing group were just recently discussing what game they should buy for their daughters (step-daughter in one case)  for the Easter Holidays.  I'd never put two and two together there; advertising that a game is friendly for women (obviously, DA is not suitable for young women, or men, without supervision) is relevant to all the gamer-dads and mums out there.

[Darth Krytie]

1.  Well, he's a keeper, definitely.

 

2.  You know, you're absolutely right; three of the guys in my role-playing group were just recently discussing what game they should buy for their daughters (step-daughter in one case)  for the Easter Holidays.  I'd never put two and two together there; advertising that a game is friendly for women (obviously, DA is not suitable for young women, or men, without supervision) is relevant to all the gamer-dads and mums out there.

 

I've asked my stores about games for my daughter and they don't have a clue, either. I got "well, there's this pink glitter fairy barbie thing" and I looked at them and said, "If I brought this home to my teenage daughter, she would shank me and not even feel bad about it."

[Stelae]

I've asked my stores about games for my daughter and they don't have a clue, either. I got "well, there's this pink glitter fairy barbie thing" and I looked at them and said, "If I brought this home to my teenage daughter, she would shank me and not even feel bad about it."

You are obviously raising her right. 

 

You want I should ask my kid-raising friends for recommendations?  Mind you, they are dealing mainly with pre-teens.  One teenager did regale me with tales of her competitive Civ 5 exploits, though. 

[Darth Krytie]

You are obviously raising her right. 

 

You want I should ask my kid-raising friends for recommendations?  Mind you, they are dealing mainly with pre-teens.  One teenager did regale me with tales of her competitive Civ 5 exploits, though. 

 

Sure. PM me if you have an idea: Trina's interests are: pokemon, fossil fighters, dangan ronpa. She has a Wii U, 3DS, Vita, and access to a PS3 and a 360. She's 15, so nothing too young. (She's an asexual lesbian--last she told me, so nothing that would be offensive to her based on that.)

[Bugsie]

I'm afraid my daughter is too young to play any video games, but given her dexterity with my phone and iPad and our general home environment I would say not long...

 

I played earlier versions of the sims and got a bit bored after a while, as did my sim, couldnt get her to do anything in the end because she was too depressed.

 

Mobile games, yeah a few, mostly in airports or on commute or that brief 15 minute gap you might get to relax between chaos. There are some really interesting ones out there. Plague Inc was reasonably involved.

 

As far as gaming cred - does Pong count on the original Atari? Or perhaps various Game and Watch games (They're a bit like todays mobile games I guess) or perhaps Tetris and Mario on the original game boy? Can you all throw kudos my way for being a RealGamer™ and sticking around so long?

 

And yessss to the person who said female dwarf/qunari inquisitor!

[General TSAR]

And yessss to the person who said female dwarf/qunari inquisitor!

And she better be a dual-wielding rogue.

[HuldraDancer]

I know this is a little derailing since its not really talking about DA:I but seeing all these posts about gaming and women and girls just really makes me sad for my younger cousin shes still really too young for any of the games I usually play but the whole games have gender on them is already being placed on her by her parents and that is very depressing. Not just games -everything- has a gender on it including socks. SOCKS! I recall playing Mass Effect while she watched cause she likes to watch me drive around in the Mako and she asked me why I was playing with a boy and not a girl (I was using a femshep with a shaved head and battle scars) when I told her that it was a woman but she just had short hair she told me that 'Girls can't have short hair because they turn into boys if they cut their hair' at first it was kind of cute until it sunk in that her parents told her that and that she refused to believe that girls could have short hair just like boys until she heard my Shep talk. It was a very sad and alarming wake up call and now her parents don't like me as much since I correct her and tell her that not everything has a gender on it that there is no such thing as Hair for guys only or socks for girls only or music or games. Heck the last time we went to a game store my little cousin told me I couldn't buy a game I had because it was for boys only and led me to the sparkly pink princess games for young children instead. (It might have something to do with the fact that she's six but a lot of it has to do with her parents putting a gender on everything  ) Sorry for the derail everyone I'll try not to do it again.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

My (20-something) niece is majoring in computer game design at a major uni, so there's hope! 

[Lady Nuggins]

I know this is a little derailing since its not really talking about DA:I but seeing all these posts about gaming and women and girls just really makes me sad for my younger cousin [snip]

 

No worries, Huldra.  I think this just reinforces how much impact marketing has.  Most of us here were probably fortunate enough to be introduced to video games before the big push in the 90s to make them a "boy thing."  I imagine this alone is why one of the fastest growing demographics is female gamers over 30--those are most likely women who played games in the 80s, but dropped it after it became so heavily gendered. 

 

As a side-note, I distinctly remember writing a letter to Nintendo Power Magazine sometime in the mid-90s, asking why all the new games coming out were full of guns and violence, instead of cute cartoon animals like I preferred.  I think I was about 11. 

 

If your niece (and her parents) never sees herself represented in any game that is not sparkly and pink, of course she is going to avoid it. 

[Thandal N'Lyman]

And yessss to the person who said female dwarf/qunari inquisitor!

 

^^ Totally this! ^^

 

I've said that my first Inquisitor would be a F!Dwarf Rogue from the very first body model reveal.  (She'll be a Brand, if that's an option.  "Suck on stalactites, you Diamond Quarter dandies.  Forget Winter is coming, the BREACH  is already here!")

[HuldraDancer]

No worries, Huldra.  I think this just reinforces how much impact marketing has.  Most of us here were probably fortunate enough to be introduced to video games before the big push in the 90s to make them a "boy thing."  I imagine this alone is why one of the fastest growing demographics is female gamers over 30--those are most likely women who played games in the 80s, but dropped it after it became so heavily gendered. 

 

As a side-note, I distinctly remember writing a letter to Nintendo Power Magazine sometime in the mid-90s, asking why all the new games coming out were full of guns and violence, instead of cute cartoon animals like I preferred.  I think I was about 11. 

 

If your niece (and her parents) never sees herself represented in any game that is not sparkly and pink, of course she is going to avoid it. 

Thanks Lady Nuggins. While I was growing up around the 'games are for boys' push  I was lucky enough to have my mother's boyfriend get me into gaming specifically rpgs I remember both him and my mom playing games like Mortal Combat and Double Dragon and Sonic with me all the time even though my mom wasn't big of a gamer. While i love that my cousin is into games its just sad that she's so convinced that she can't play games cause she's a girl which may hit home for me a little too hard which is why I'm so strong to correct her on it. I remember being told a lot that I couldn't be good at games or play them cause of my gender and if I did do a level better or beat them it was a 'fluke' or 'luck'. I just pray there's hope for her later cause this attitude does screw with you later in life I would know  

[DragonRacer]

I know this is a little derailing since its not really talking about DA:I but seeing all these posts about gaming and women and girls just really makes me sad for my younger cousin shes still really too young for any of the games I usually play but the whole games have gender on them is already being placed on her by her parents and that is very depressing. Not just games -everything- has a gender on it including socks. SOCKS! I recall playing Mass Effect while she watched cause she likes to watch me drive around in the Mako and she asked me why I was playing with a boy and not a girl (I was using a femshep with a shaved head and battle scars) when I told her that it was a woman but she just had short hair she told me that 'Girls can't have short hair because they turn into boys if they cut their hair' at first it was kind of cute until it sunk in that her parents told her that and that she refused to believe that girls could have short hair just like boys until she heard my Shep talk. It was a very sad and alarming wake up call and now her parents don't like me as much since I correct her and tell her that not everything has a gender on it that there is no such thing as Hair for guys only or socks for girls only or music or games. Heck the last time we went to a game store my little cousin told me I couldn't buy a game I had because it was for boys only and led me to the sparkly pink princess games for young children instead. (It might have something to do with the fact that she's six but a lot of it has to do with her parents putting a gender on everything  ) Sorry for the derail everyone I'll try not to do it again.

 

Wow.

 

I am so sorry for that.

 

It does seem pretty socially ingrained, though. I was not immune to it. I clearly recall much of my young childhood being filled with gifts of Barbies and pink things and all sorts of other stuff that I just did not like or relate to at all (horses were fine though; give me all your Breyers, I was down for that). However, I was fortunate enough that once I got old enough to express myself and my preferences properly, my family adjusted instead of continuing to try and force me down the path of "stereotypical girl childhood". When I showed a much better interest in boy toys or plastic dinosaurs or racecars, my Mom took the hint and gravitated towards such things from then on. For that, my childhood memories are 95% awesome. Any Barbies I continued to get afterwards from ignorant family, I just politely thanked them for it and then later stripped the dolls down and fed them to my plastic dinosaurs. 

 

Not always easy listening to your child, though. I remember my Mom telling me one time about how she picked up a cake for one of my birthdays (a single-digit year like 7, 8, or 9). I was hardcore into dinosaurs at that age and wanted to grow up to be a paleontologist. My Mom had a cake made somewhere that was dinosaur-themed, with jungle frosting and one or two plastic dinosaurs on top. Whilst in line waiting to pay for it, the mother in line behind her remarked, "Oh my, your son is going to love that cake!" To which my Mom replied (the badass she was), "Yes, SHE will."

 

Stereotypes, man. Geez. Nothing against it if that's what the child shows a gravitation towards... I have two young female cousins and they show an interest in the girly Disney princess stuff and that's okay. As long as it wasn't forced on them as the only acceptable thing for them to like (which doesn't seem to be the case).

[Bugsie]

And she better be a dual-wielding rogue.

That would be super awesome.

[Brass_Buckles]

I know this is a little derailing since its not really talking about DA:I but seeing all these posts about gaming and women and girls just really makes me sad for my younger cousin shes still really too young for any of the games I usually play but the whole games have gender on them is already being placed on her by her parents and that is very depressing. Not just games -everything- has a gender on it including socks. SOCKS! I recall playing Mass Effect while she watched cause she likes to watch me drive around in the Mako and she asked me why I was playing with a boy and not a girl (I was using a femshep with a shaved head and battle scars) when I told her that it was a woman but she just had short hair she told me that 'Girls can't have short hair because they turn into boys if they cut their hair' at first it was kind of cute until it sunk in that her parents told her that and that she refused to believe that girls could have short hair just like boys until she heard my Shep talk. It was a very sad and alarming wake up call and now her parents don't like me as much since I correct her and tell her that not everything has a gender on it that there is no such thing as Hair for guys only or socks for girls only or music or games. Heck the last time we went to a game store my little cousin told me I couldn't buy a game I had because it was for boys only and led me to the sparkly pink princess games for young children instead. (It might have something to do with the fact that she's six but a lot of it has to do with her parents putting a gender on everything  ) Sorry for the derail everyone I'll try not to do it again.

 

Unfortunately this kind of gendering is rife, and not just in gaming.  And companies tend to eat it up, and push parents to do the same thing.  When I was little, there were games marketed to both genders.  Lincoln logs.  Legos.  Now Lincoln Logs and Legos are boy toys only, except for the girl Legos (I forget what they are called) that are, apparently, already partly made and such.  But part of that is because Legos come as kits, now, rather than bricks you can make whatever you like with.

 

Pink games for girls have been around since the early days of gaming, but now gaming stores etc. are just rife with them.  And, you don't really see any "older" games for girls, i.e. Teen-rated games for teen girls or M rated games for adult women, unless those games are gender neutral.  Then there are parents who are horrified their children will turn out to be gay/lesbian if they're into the "wrong" gender of stuff.  I think they need to worry less about that and more about the content of the game, and what it's telling their children.

 

I know someone who worries horribly about his son being gay because he likes My Little Pony stuff and plays with his big sister's games from time to time.  But the kid also loves trucks and cars and racing and engines and typical boy stuff.  He likes My Little Pony probably for the same reason most of the teen-to-adult bronies do:  apparently it's actually a really good cartoon (I haven't watched it, so I don't know).  As for playing with his sister's spa games... well, admit it, it's pretty hilarious to stick cucumbers over someone's eyes and paint their face with green mud.  And it's even funnier to a young child.

 

Something that I meant to comment on before, but it was late, or something...  Regarding the low number of female characters actually played to completion in Mass Effect.  Women are more likely to play male characters than female, and more likely to be okay with playing men than men are to be called upon to play as a female.  The same is true for novels.  A woman is more willing to read novels with male protagonists, whereas men often think novels with female protagonists are too girly (same person as above was also afraid boy-child might become gay because he read books about girls--I say they should be happy that the child enjoys reading a good story regardless who it's about--no one thinks a girl is going to be a lesbian for reading a story about boys).

 

Basically, the way I've seen this explained--and I tend to agree--women are trained from birth to empathize with men, to be able to put ourselves in their shoes.  We are inundated from childhood with male animal cartoon characters, male heroes in our cartoons, male protagonists in our novels, TV shows with boys and men as the stars.  The characters we are expected to understand and enjoy are predominantly male, even today, even in 2014.  Most children's book characters are male, even the nonhuman ones--girls are expected to read about boys as much as about girls, whereas boys are generally expected to only read about boys, even if the boy in question is a puppy or a giraffe.  Most men are, on the other hand, taught from their boyhood days  that they must never be at all feminine, and to avoid anything girly--no watching cartoons with female characters, no reading books with female characters, because those are for girls only (even if the entire plot or premise of that media is gender-neutral).  Putting themselves into a woman's shoes would classify as overly feminine, unless they claim to do so for the sake of sex appeal.  And women are also generally told we should expect a man to protect us/take care of us, so many women do gravitate toward male heroes, because they have never been taught that they can/should be their own heroes.  That's the society we live in.  it's not true for absolutely everyone's upbringing, but I'd argue that everyone who hasn't been living as a hermit has been exposed to at least a little bit of it, through school, daycare, babysitters, etc. 

 

So basically, a lot of women will still play the male protagonist, if he's the default, and some will play the male option even if the female character is given equal presentation.  (This is particularly true for ME2 and ME3, when women playing the game were likely to not only be starting a game with a default male, but also might be loading from a save where their character was male in the game before.)  That doesn't mean that they aren't playing, and it doesn't mean that the female character should not be marketed.  A lot of women like the idea of being their own heroes, and showing them that the game isn't just about another man character, but that they can make their own unique woman character, would go a long way to appealing to a broader female audience.  It may also encourage some of those women who otherwise would feel like the male is the "real" or "right" version to actually play the female character, making the balance a bit less skewed toward male overall in which character is actually played.

 

But what do I know...?

[Darth Krytie]

-snipped the most wonderful thing ever_

 

I ran out of likes. But even if I had all of them, I'd still click you once and run out, I liked that so much. So much truth there.

[DragonRacer]

I ran out of likes. But even if I had all of them, I'd still click you once and run out, I liked that so much. So much truth there.

 

I liked it on both our behalves, because that was amazing.

[Darth Krytie]

I liked it on both our behalves, because that was amazing.

 

 

Ooh, time gave me more. I never know the cycle on these things.

[DaySeeker]

I used video games in my high school classroom as an examination of gender.  One part of the unit had the students making their own avatars- (used DA2, ME2, and a few other games).  About 35% of the female students created male avatars.  Some said it was easier, most said they thought the man they made was attractive.  I've heard straight men say this is why they create female avatars.  

 

I am curious to see the female inquisitor.

[HuldraDancer]

@DragonRacer

Same but most people kept the barbies coming mostly because anything 'boyish' I got my aunt gave it to her son instead or my grandmother gave to my cousin since she wanted a sweet little princess. Though I did play briefly the barbie computer games I got since it was all I had well that is until I stopped because of my cousin and his friend saying if barbie was an actual spy she would show her breast more or sleep with everyone like female spy's are suppose to but that's going to lead me into a tangent that is neither here or there. Your mother sounds awesome by the way :3

@Brass_Buckles

That is sadly very true I was very much into 'boy' things as a child so I was always given 'girl' toys to help make me behave the way I was suppose to apparently and the one time I was given a 'boy' toy it was something I didn't like so I didn't play with and was told that I wouldn't get anything like that again and should stick to toys 'meant for my gender' The way toys and just about anything is advertised is very troubling I agree. I'm not sure about being trained from birth though since my mother and her boyfriend were very cool about letting me pick the toys I wanted and didn't question if there was something wrong with me but my grandmother and aunt did quite a bit and I'm about to derail yet again. I'm very sorry about that my ADD is in full swing at the moment^^;

[Bugsie]

Can you like your own posts, because I would totally repost Brass Buckles post and then like it just so I could like it again.

[Mes]

 

So basically, a lot of women will still play the male protagonist, if he's the default, and some will play the male option even if the female character is given equal presentation.  (This is particularly true for ME2 and ME3, when women playing the game were likely to not only be starting a game with a default male, but also might be loading from a save where their character was male in the game before.)  That doesn't mean that they aren't playing, and it doesn't mean that the female character should not be marketed.  A lot of women like the idea of being their own heroes, and showing them that the game isn't just about another man character, but that they can make their own unique woman character, would go a long way to appealing to a broader female audience.  It may also encourage some of those women who otherwise would feel like the male is the "real" or "right" version to actually play the female character, making the balance a bit less skewed toward male overall in which character is actually played.

 

 

Ugh, your post. It actually made me want to cry. Because of how true it is, and how differently maybe I would have turned out if I didn't grow up in such a gender segregated world.

 

I quoted this last bit because it is 100% on the money for me.

 

I almost always choose to play as a male character in video games because I feel he is the "right" version, the version that the entire game was intended for. And I feel SAFE playing as a man, because I've been bombarded with all this nonsense that women are weak and need to be protected whereas men can go out in the world and kick a$$.

 

What helped me to begin to snap out of this mindset was female Shepard. It is a crying shame that she and Jennifer Hale were not advertised properly. The ME3 team really missed the boat there. Finally we had a female hero that could kick butt like her male counterpart. She was like Xena was for me when I was a kid.

 

I'd like to see a female Inquisitor advertised the way that women feel about themselves on the inside, rather than the way misogynists fantasize them to be.

[DragonRacer]

Ugh, your post. It actually made me want to cry. Because of how true it is, and how differently maybe I would have turned out if I didn't grow up in such a gender segregated world.

 

I quoted this last bit because it is 100% on the money for me.

 

I almost always choose to play as a male character in video games because I feel he is the "right" version, the version that the entire game was intended for. And I feel SAFE playing as a man, because I've been bombarded with all this nonsense that women are weak and need to be protected whereas men can go out in the world and kick a$$.

 

What helped me to begin to snap out of this mindset was female Shepard. It is a crying shame that she and Jennifer Hale were not advertised properly. The ME3 team really missed the boat there. Finally we had a female hero that could kick butt like her male counterpart. She was like Xena was for me when I was a kid.

 

I'd like to see a female Inquisitor advertised the way that women feel about themselves on the inside, rather than the way misogynists fantasize them to be.

 

OMG YEEEEEEEEEEEEES

 

As much as I like and respect Male Shepard, the "real" Shepard - to me - will always be FemShep.

 

So much badass. So much love. So much identity. 

[Darth Krytie]

OMG YEEEEEEEEEEEEES

 

As much as I like and respect Male Shepard, the "real" Shepard - to me - will always be FemShep.

 

So much badass. So much love. So much identity. 

 

It took me over six or seven playthroughs (or more, maybe) before I ever even tried Dude-Shep. I actually played through a bunch with a single lady Shep. Mer Shepard. (short for Meredith---it was sort of an in joke if you ever shipped John/Rodney from SGA)  The only reason I ever even played as DudeShep was because I could play him gay in ME3. After that, I ended up going through with him a few times to do all the romances. But that first playthrough? Felt weird at times. Mer Shepard has been my canon Shep for a long time. (Though, she used to be a white red-head with a bob-type cut...now she is a black woman with short black hair.)