9318 réponses à ce sujet

[puppyofwar]

 

Yep at this point I rather we go back to the old blow up a city while they twisted their mustaches type of antagonists. At least that was less annoying to me.

 

 

OK, that makes me giggle like mad for some reason.

[karushna5]

It's not my place to really know how trivializing it is or isn't. I fully admit that. I don't know the experience of rape like this story presents it. I don't want to act like I do. I have been victimized in my own way though (but I won't get into it).. but not like this. I can respect that people care about it deeply.

 

That said.. From my own limited perspective, setting up "plot points" is all you can expect from a story. Because that what it is - a story. Not a simulation. Not a depiction of the depths of human experience. Especially in this medium.

 

It served it's purpose in making you care about your character and her friends well enough (depending how decent of a person you are at least. I assume most are). I don't know what more you can ask. It could be worse -- where a story blatantly makes you the villain and identify with rape instead! Here, they're trying to champion victim's rights and doing good things. Give them some credit at least. Just because they can't treat subjects with the utmost gravity doesn't mean they had bad intentions.

 

I especially find it unfair when just about every subject -- not just rape - is treated in a shallow manner. But then to only single out this one. Both good and bad things are somewhat shallow. Love, murder, rape, slavery, sacrifice, hatred, mass deaths, etc.. The game touches on so many subjects that it uses shorthand and symbolic gestures quite a bit.

I am not saying they had bad intentions. I have a lot of respect for the devs, regardless it has a terrible effect and using something so common to many of their customers/audience in such an offhand way is disrespectful and in the end harmful. I prefer they don't use Rape at all. I don't have a problem with plot points but using this as a plot point so casually is part of the problem. Making us side with rape or help helpless and unescapeable rape victims are not the only options. I believe that is called a false dichotomy. The first would make me stop playing video games ever again, because video games have failed as a medium of any merit, the second should be critiqued for its faults.

 

As far as Game of thrones. This person always put it best for me, but warning they put a lot of stuff from the books in there and it is pretty graphic... http://theuncooperat...y-so-much-rape/

[Han Shot First]

I'm not a fan of her at all, but I'm shaking my head at how laughably easy people in that thread are getting offended, and their use of Anita as a license for their misogynistic outlet.

 

"How dare you blame men for shootings, what a dumbbitch ho, women love to be sex objects"

 

She made a borderline sexist comment on Twitter. I think people were justified in being critical of that, though certainly there were a few knuckledraggers who were responding with their own sexist comments. 

 

If there was a current news item about a female doing something awful, and a man responded to that story by commenting "No surprise it was a woman...", he'd probably be accused of sexism and shouted down by the internet in about 2.5 seconds. And rightly so.

[Ryzaki]

I am not saying they had bad intentions. I have a lot of respect for the devs, regardless it has a terrible effect and using something so common to many of their customers/audience in such an offhand way is disrespectful and in the end harmful. I prefer they don't use Rape at all. I don't have a problem with plot points but using this as a plot point so casually is part of the problem. Making us side with rape or help helpless and unescapeable rape victims are not the only options. I believe that is called a false dichotomy. The first would make me stop playing video games ever again, because video games have failed as a medium of any merit, the second should be critiqued for its faults.

 

As far as Game of thrones. This person always put it best for me, but warning they put a lot of stuff from the books in there and it is pretty graphic... http://theuncooperat...y-so-much-rape/

 

Agreed. Hopefully this means if the devs do decide to use this in a future game they'll take more care with it instead of just throwing it in there.

 

See reading stuff like that makes me glad I never read a ASOIAF. Well that and constant POV switches. I can't freaking STAND constant POV switches.

[Ryzaki]

I feel the same way about slavery btw. I couldn't believe how lightly it was made in some of Isabela's storyarc, for example. And how they actually made that a "choice" to make within her friendship with you (with the ship she wanted). Not to mention the Alienage story, where you can sacrifice your own freaking father!!

 

It's so absurd I have to laugh though.

 

 I have to drop my expectations a bit.. I can't expect that much depth. And partly, as an RPG, I have to bring some of that depth to the table myself. I can't expect the writers to do everything. They mostly play the part of dungeon master.. Scenario creators.

I'm not bothered by it being a choice though yeah the skipping off with her boat option does have her and Hawke blissfully ignoring all the people that Castillon is going to enslave after that (but honestly they'd already pretty much ignored all the people who died to the Qunari before that so it's not like that was OOC).

 

I save that for the more absurd killing people choices myself.

 

Which honestly is why I prefer they stay away from the matter of sexual assault to begin with. If they can't do it right I rather they just left it be.

[karushna5]

It doesn't have to be gritty grits to tell how they have it bad.

 

The wedding could only go through by having the lord of the area approve it. Elves coming to the wedding for a bite to eat. Someone mentioning one guest isn't coming due to taking sick. Obviously a simple poultice would be enough, but the humans seem to collect more taxes than what they pay him. A bunch of Nobles come and crash the party, insulting people, goading them, threatening them. Knowing that if they fight, the humans just want an excuse to kill a few. Your spouse fights anyway after they humiliate them. A fight breaks out. You as the leader and because of that they live. The elves won't take any more, your spouse lives, but admits he/she doesn't want to marry you. He/she will help the area though, they will build a barricade, fight to the end. Won't deal with the injustices heaped upon them. You got hurt in the battle, and too weak to deal with the next fight and definitely Warden potential, Duncan recruits you, he treats your injuries by the time you reach Ostagar.

 

This mentions the beginning of the sickness. Explains why the place is walled off so much better, and makes the City Elf feel way more of a hero. Also it gives the City Elf view instead of just placing them in a place of victimhood.

 

Sure none of this is an atrocity, but it doesn't have to be to say the point which is Elves are lower class citizens. Make them heroes, tell their point of view, show how humans treat them. If Rape and Slavery are the only ways someone can have it worse than someone else, then you get a host of stories and games where that is the ONLY way. Dial it down, but tell your original point. Atrocities are not needed unless that is the whole point, and there is a reason to put it in for itself. Usually better to dial it down and make your point.

[puppyofwar]

Well, what would do you instead? I'm genuinely curious. I don't doubt that there are better ways of making the same point.. I just don't have one other than slavery. Which, as I said, is already used in the second part of the Alienage story (and used again in Zevran's predicament and Fenris later on). And then just the general lore of Tevinter and Arltathan.. and once again with Isabela's story. If anything is overused, it's slavery.

hmm, how about bann-whats-his-name, interrupted the wedding, but asking Shianne's head for her "crime" instead? Then the Pcs tried to break her out of dungeon but was caught by the Guards in the end and Duncan saves the day?

[karushna5]

That also works, honestly hundreds of things could work other than (and better than) Rape and Slavery.

[Ryzaki]

Sure none of this is an atrocity, but it doesn't have to be to say the point which is Elves are lower class citizens. Make them heroes, tell their point of view, show how humans treat them. If Rape and Slavery are the only ways someone can have it worse than someone else, then you get a host of stories and games where that is the ONLY way. Dial it down, but tell your original point. Atrocities are not needed unless that is the whole point, and there is a reason to put it in for itself. Usually better to dial it down and make your point.

 

Also would probably make the news of the purge that much more of a blow when you go back.

[puppyofwar]

And we're having over 10 pages discussions about FF, rape and Antia Sarkeesian but everyone's all civil and nice and making good arguments!

 

[karushna5]

I suppose that works. 

 

I think you need atrocities however. Somewhere. Not necessarily here. Somewhere. And rape, sadly, is a common one. Hell, we can turn on the news of Syria right now, and hear it being done en masse. A common tool of the conqueror.

 

Secondly, the CE and Dalish stories need to play off each other. The Dalish gets the story where they are more emboldened and potentially aggressive and proud (and possibly evil themselves). Where they decided long ago to say "never again" and hold bitterness in their hearts. The City Elf story, I think, is fit to show more harsher experiences.

And I feel this attitude is ruining video games, feeling like an atrocity is needed talking about it so casually is the whole problem like it is just a "thing" and this attitude is what rape culture is. I don't have a problem with you specifically at all, it is a common view and I hear things like it even pertaining to real life everyday from people I care about and who are kind and good people like yourself. But the reason people don't understand why this attitude is hurtful and painful and messed up is why people need to stop doing it, especially in an interactive medium like video games. Video games doing that has made rape into what you describe above, and made gamer culture an extremely uncomfortable place for a whole lot of people.

 

But I think I can tell, I have talked about this topic all I can. Take care. Have a picture of something cute...

Spoiler

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

you know the Deer ate that fox right? 

ok let me ask a question.

If in th HN origin Orin was a girl how would that make you feel?

alternitively in the CE origin if it was a Lady and her cronies abducting boys. would you even think it wrong?  

bareing in mind men are sexualy asaulted on a nearly equal consistancy as women.

[RevilFox]

Not to change the subject, but I'm going to change the subject a tiny bit. Has anyone else played the newer Tomb Raider game that came out a couple years ago? There's a part of that game, early on, where Lara gets captured by these guys and tied up (along with some of her companions). No rape occurs, but it's implied that if she doesn't get away then it's pretty likely she will be raped. What follows is a fairly brutal, very interactive scene where Lara either dies or kills her captor. It's the first time she's ever killed anyone, and it's treated as a horrifying experience. It's also the point where Lara realizes that she's in deep trouble on this island, and that she needs to be willing to be harder if she's going to rescue her friends and get off the island. (I'll post a link to the Youtube video of this scene below, for anyone that wants to watch it). I'm curious as to how everyone else views this scene. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edit: I put the video in spoiler tags in case anyone doesn't want to see even the preview of it.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

oh you mean the Arse grab?

never mund the 10 0r 20 guys getting shot.

[puppyofwar]

I played the game as well, while I enjoy it,  the fact that immediately after that scene you can go on and shoot your way through the  island, goring people with your pickax without her flinching kinda kills the whole tension and drama.

 

Then again, the narrative and story telling was choppy and poorly executed, so I end up bored and skipping all the cut scenes.

[RevilFox]

I played the game as well, while I enjoy it,  the fact that immediately after that scene you can go on and shoot your way through the  island, goring people with your pickax without her flinching kinda kills the whole tension and drama.

I completely agree. I thought that game was AMAZING up until almost immediately after this scene. I really wanted the game to be more about surviving the island than just another Uncharted. Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the game, I did, or that I don't enjoy Uncharted, I do. It just wasn't quite what I wanted that game to be.

[puppyofwar]

I completely agree. I thought that game was AMAZING up until almost immediately after this scene. I really wanted the game to be more about surviving the island than just another Uncharted. Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the game, I did, or that I don't enjoy Uncharted, I do. It just wasn't quite what I wanted that game to be.

yeah, the narrative and storytelling was choppy and poorly executed, so I end up bored and skipping all the cut scenes.  

 

Axe and gore, yes. I disagree about the flinching though

 

She goes through the game confused, breathing heavily, stumbling, appalled at her discoveries.. she's not stoic or anything. Just good in a crisis, when it comes to taking action.

Ah, that's true. My apology