I'll agree that the story wasn't the greatest. I'm mostly in it because Lara is cool and I've always liked Tomb Raider's mix of puzzles and action. The gameplay sells it, for the most part.
It's fun and I like it 
.
I still remember ye old TR games made me want to pull my hairs out in frustration, but I just keep playing...
I find it interesting how people are very concerned about using rape as a plot element because rape is too serious to be treated so lightly, but have no qualms about using murder in the same way. All the DA games have plenty of murder. What does that say about our society?
I find it interesting how people are very concerned about using rape as a plot element because rape is too serious to be treated so lightly, but have no qualms about using murder in the same way. All the DA games have plenty of murder. What does that say about our society?
I think one of the issues is that far more players are likely to be rape survivors than murder survivors.
There is, however, the related issue of the gradual normalisation of violence in contemporary society (of which videogames are just one aspect, compare the amount of human 'collateral damage' in modern action movies to older ones, for example). This is a much bigger problem, though, and really we should be trying to push for an increase in non-violent solutions to problems in games than (for example) the inclusion of more varied kinds of violence.
I find it interesting how people are very concerned about using rape as a plot element because rape is too serious to be treated so lightly, but have no qualms about using murder in the same way. All the DA games have plenty of murder. What does that say about our society?
Because that is a can of worms the size of Mount.Everest.
I think it's necessary to engage her, specifically when it comes to Bioware. Not really in general. Only because I think she'd find friends and allies among the developers and their fans. She missed the mark on DAO, and makes it look as silly as Duke Nukem. A female fan engaging her would do a lot to bridge the gap here.
I don't think she did miss the mark on DA:O.
Her point was that video game writers use a male character raping or threatening to rape a women as shorthand for 'this guy is a total dick' and is what it used for in DA:O
There is always an incontext reason for it to happen & DA:O perhaps justifies the use of this trope more than most games because of its setting, but that doesn't mean BioWare can't be criticised for the use of it.
If DA:O was the only game where this happened, then she would be off mark about it, but most of her videos are about a general trend not one specific example.
For Example
The whole plot of Mario is to rescue a princess, now the damsel in distress is not an inherently sexist trope a until you realise that most women in video games are damseled at some point and then it becomes sexist
This is not just an issue in video games tough & it happens in T.V. novels, comics, films etc
I don't always agree with everything she says, but I appreciate where she is coming from.
I love for us to be able to have a proper dialogue with her on these topics, but unfortunately most of her critics believe that any criticisms of video games is a person attack on them and respond accordingly.
I think you can easily accuse most games of lazy, tepid writing when they use threats of rape or murder as shorthand to imply that a character is evil. But that's very different from it being a misogynist trope. The problem with Sarkeesian's arguments is that they focus exclusively on the trope as it relates to women, intentionally stripping it of context to make it seem more targeted than it is.
For example, I think it's uncontentious to say that in video games villains are characterised as such through a WIDE variety of lazy tropes:
-has a posh accent, especially British? WATCH OUT HE'S EVIL
-is slightly intolerant towards elves, qunari, etc.? WATCH OUT TOTALLY EVIL
-extremely or ostentatiously wealthy, contemptuous in any way towards the poor? OH WAIT I KNOW THIS ONE HE'S EVIL
-casually threatens to kill someone's family? OMG LOOK OUT FOR THE EVIL
-kicks a dog or treats any animal unkindly? MAN, SO EVIL.
-threatens sexual violence towards women? OK GOT IT, WAY EVIL.
All of these examples are used extremely frequently in games. It's absolutely not the case that sexual violence towards women is the "go-to" lazy writing trope to make game villains seem evil. Of course it's going to look that way if you build a supercut of JUST THOSE examples, though.
The only possible problem with this (besides the problem of lazy game writing) is that threats of sexual violence towards men are not a frequently used trope in games to characterise villains as evil.
There's a few reasons for this, though. Firstly sexual violence against men just isn't as big of a problem in society as sexual violence against women. Accordingly, it doesn't resonate nearly as much with audiences.
Secondly, and more importantly, since most villains are male (a problem in and of itself, but a separate one), threats of sexual violence towards men would often come across as homosexual, and I think game writers want to steer clear of portraying homosexuals as rapacious or sexually predatory, for fear of offending that demographic.
In the case of a female villain, threats of sexual violence wouldn't really make as much sense, although I wouldn't object to them being included more often. It would have been interesting if Knight-Commander Meredith threatened male Wardens with castration or rape by her templars. Totally out of character, though.
In general though, I think the main problem is lazy villain writing, not misogyny.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
It would have been interesting if Knight-Commander Meredith threatened male Wardens with castration or rape by her templars. Totally out of character, though.
lol.. yeah, out of character. As "evil" as she is, she still thinks she's good. She wouldn't consciously go there.
I always thought the idea of Flemeth capturing the Warden to be a scary prospect though.
She made a borderline sexist comment on Twitter. I think people were justified in being critical of that, though certainly there were a few knuckledraggers who were responding with their own sexist comments.
If there was a current news item about a female doing something awful, and a man responded to that story by commenting "No surprise it was a woman...", he'd probably be accused of sexism and shouted down by the internet in about 2.5 seconds. And rightly so.
I don't agree that her comment was sexist.
97% of mass shootings are carried out by men, so I think it is a justified question to ask.
Like back in the day when most people who had eating disorders where women, asking the question "what is it about women or societies influence on women that means they are more likely to have an eating disorder' was valid.
And of course then we worked out that one of the factors was the pressure to have the perfect skinny body, which men are now feeling so eating disorders amongst men are on the raise.
It can't just be about mental health because women have mental health issues too and yet are unlikely to go on a killing spree.
Of course women are more likely to seek help because asking for help is seen as 'unmanly' so it could be a combination of mental health and the type of cultural masculinity that means men are less likely to ask for help or to display any emotion other than rage.
If it is a combination of them both then solving the mental health issue is only half the answer, but we'll never know unless we ask the question: why are the vast majority of mass shootings carried out by men?
More On Topic
Quite frankly, I'm getting tired of the same old tropes being used for both men & women. To name a few:
Just for once I'd like to play a male character with the full range of emotions, who is not on an epic quest to save his girlfriend or avenge his dead wife. With a female friend, who is useful, never gets kidnapped and doesn't have a romantic subplot with him.
I'd also like there to be enough female protagonists in games, that have one isn't seen as 'groundbreaking' Enough so that whenever anyone talks about the lack of female protagonists in games, the same few games aren't trotted out as examples of games with female protagonists.
Tomb Raider, Metroid, Beyond Good & Evil.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'd hardly call the mass shooters too "manly" to ask for help on mental health.
They're just ****** crazier than usual. And beyond help.
....so how bout that Lady Inquisitor?
Um...trying to say this politely. I'm in Colorado, where the largest jury pool in state history is taking place over the mass theatre shooter James Holmes. I didn't know anyone that was hurt that night at the theatre, but I had friends that used to work there and family that used to watch movies there. Mass shooting is a very sensitive subject for me, and it isn't on topic. Please don't do that again, okay? 
You really don't know their life. Neither do I, who knows. I do know that showing their mugshots is beyond meaningless since you're judging them entirely on how they look? And I also do know it's a gun problem because of the ease use of the gun and speed at which it can kill several people from a distance.
I'm not saying it wasn't sexist, I'm saying it's very mild implication compared to all the sexism women put up with, including in that very thread, and that the same people responsible for it are jumping up wildly like they've been grievously attacked. It's amusing in a completely unfunny way
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'm not apologizing for anything. I've been diagnosed with mental illness myself.
I refuse to be bundled in that mess. Both as a man and a sufferer. But those dudes are nuttier than usual... and that they went that far shows they were beyond help.
And no, I won't tell what my mental issues are. I already admitted to past child molestation. Lots of confessions tonight. The Doctor Phil show is over. 
Um...trying to say this politely. I'm in Colorado, where the largest jury pool in state history is taking place over the mass theatre shooter James Holmes. I didn't know anyone that was hurt that night at the theatre, but I had friends that used to work there and family that used to watch movies there. Mass shooting is a very sensitive subject for me, and it isn't on topic. Please don't do that again, okay?
This is a sensitive issue and worthy of discussion but you are right, it is off topic.
My apologies
I'm not apologizing for anything. I've been diagnosed with mental illness myself.
I refuse to be bundled in that mess. Both as a man and a sufferer. But those dudes are nuttier than usual... and that they went that far shows they were beyond help.
And no, I won't tell what my mental issues are. I already admitted to past child molestation. Lots of confessions tonight. The Doctor Phil show is over.
I'd love to continue this conversation with you, without bringing this thread more off topic. Would you be happy to continue via PM?
If not I totally get it
I decided that my mage femquisitor will be a knight enchanter. I wasn't sure at first, but I went with it. Mostly because of what I saw in the video. I liked it. So that's what I'll go with.
To sum up my femquisitor
Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyan. red hair, bluish-green eye color, freckles around the eyes and lips a little thinner than what the femquisitor had in the skyhold video
Knight Enchanter
ruthless
romance Josephine
at this time will have Sera, Vivienne and Cassandra in her party.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
This is a sensitive issue and worthy of discussion but you are right, it is off topic.
My apologies
I'd love to continue this conversation with you, without bringing this thread more off topic. Would you be happy to continue via PM?
If not I totally get it
No, it's cool. I appreciate it. But I actually hate talking about myself.. I just felt obligated here. I only did it (in the first case, with my childhood) to dispell any accusations that I'm part of the gamer "rape culture". I didn't want to talk about myself other than say that I understand what being victimized is like. Not like women, but I'm capable of understanding a little. And felt like admitting to my own health issues above, because I feared people thought I didn't understand them or was being too simplistic.
Anyways, sorry if it was disruptive.
No, it's cool. I appreciate it. But I actually hate talking about myself.. I just felt obligated here. I only did it (in the first case, with my childhood) to dispell any accusations that I'm part of the gamer "rape culture". I didn't want to talk about myself other than say that I understand what being victimized is like. Not like women, but I'm capable of understanding a little. And felt like admitting to my own health issues above, because I feared people thought I didn't understand them or was being too simplistic.
Anyways, sorry if it was disruptive.
My boyfriend suffers from depression, so mental health issues & particularly the challenges men have with getting help, are near and dear to my heart.
I always tend to be ready to discuss them
I decided that my mage femquisitor will be a knight enchanter. I wasn't sure at first, but I went with it. Mostly because of what I saw in the video. I liked it. So that's what I'll go with.
To sum up my femquisitor
Elizabeth Nancy Trevelyan. red hair, bluish-green eye color, freckles around the eyes and lips a little thinner than what the femquisitor had in the skyhold video
Knight Enchanter
ruthless
romance Josephine
at this time will have Sera, Vivienne and Cassandra in her party.
I love that some people have decided all this about their Inquisitor. I'm finding it so challenging to decide anything about my first playthrough other than I'll be playing a woman.
I was all set to play as a Qunari, but the Dalish & Dwarven backgrounds intrigue me and it looks like it might be easier to play as a Human in the beginning so for a first playthrough that might be a good thing.
I was all set to romance Josephine first, but the more I find out about Sera and IronBull, the more I think they might be more fun. Plus Blackwall being a romance option threw me, I was upset that Cass wasn't I romance options for women, but Blackwall might be a good substitute.
I still think that I might be a Qunari who romanced Josie but I'm so undecided.
I'll have to get to know the LIs in game better before making a decision, at least on my first playthrough.
Either way I'll be spending hours with the character creator, trying to decide on my race, appearance, voice & class
Guest_StreetMagic_*
My boyfriend suffers from depression, so mental health issues & particularly the challenges men have with getting help, are near and dear to my heart.
I always tend to be ready to discuss them
Oh OK. I've gotten help.. this started nearly 20 years ago, when I was still a teen. I was hospitalized.. so I was helped against my will at first. Then came to peace with it over time. Heh. I've been more or less OK since. You just can't be in denial and refuse treatment.
Here's my view on why the DA:O city elf plot isn't sexist.It would be sexist if the female elf plot had the male elf fight his way into the castle to save his fiancée. But this doesn't happen - the female elf takes a hold of her own destiny and ultimately brutally kills her attacker. It is also not sexist in the male elf plot - he doesn't win the day because he is male, he wins the day because he is the heroic PC. In both cases, the PC has the heroic actions, irrespective of the circumatsnce, exactly as we would expect.
Now, one could argue that both plots should be identical but just gender reversed. In that case, the male (non-PC) elf could have been kidnapped by a female noble and threatened with rape, allowing the female (PC) elf to rescue him. I believe this was not done because our society tends to trivialise sexual violence towards men. So I suppose it is sexist (despite by previous claim) but not in the way that has been claimed.
lol.. yeah, out of character. As "evil" as she is, she still thinks she's good. She wouldn't consciously go there.
I always thought the idea of Flemeth capturing the Warden to be a scary prospect though.
Especially that "I could use a handsome lad to order around." if you ask her to teach you her magic as a mage.
So much NOPE.
Edit: Bah nvm. I can't properly voice it so I won't.
So, FemQuisitors ...
I'm at the point where I might just roll a die to see what race and class I play; they all look so great! My usual bow-rogue might have to go on the back burner, because Sera. Also Varric.(Team Hell yeah!) Unless I decided to go 3-rogues-and-a-mage, for fun. Solas, you're up.
Given that it took me 2 hours to make a new SWTOR alt last night, I figure it'll be a week or two before I actually get into the game. Unless I make a burner-inquisitor for a trial run ...
Im going a female rogue as to what race i don't know.
I was going to play as a Female Inquisitor first, but there is too many things that go against it so alas I think I'll be playing as Male Inquisitor first.
I find it interesting how people are very concerned about using rape as a plot element because rape is too serious to be treated so lightly, but have no qualms about using murder in the same way. All the DA games have plenty of murder. What does that say about our society?
I can only speak for myself. I don't think use of murder and use of rape in games are treated equally. It's not about the action so much as the purpose it serves in the story.
Threatening female characters with rape is much more common --the trope has become cliched shorthand for "Call me Evildude McNastypants". Threatening male characters with rape is rarer, partially because it can play into additional troublesome tropes, like "Homosexuals are villains" and partially because some people think men can't be sexually assaulted by women. There's a danger it'd be seen as humorous or detrimental to the hero's masculinity.
Murder is an equal-opportunity crime, applied equally. It's also far more common in ludonarratives, and it doesn't serve to separate the hero from the villains. My Warden's body count is way higher than Howe's. I can, if I choose, publicly behead a (former) hero and be applauded for it.
Also, as others have pointed out, a survivor of sexual assault may be traumatised by having to re-deal with that in a game. A survivor of murder? Oxymoron.
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