Well, a few things. To limit it to three:
1) The lack of options in the CC to make characters that I wanted to make.
2) The lack of feminine casual outfit and ball outfit or ability to make them such.
3) The lack of feminine armors or ability to make them such.
Oh is that all.
personally i prefer my characters to be more tomboyish like me and to be honest feminine armour tends to me more impractical than simply ornate.
http://themundaneand...-lady-armor.jpg
Oh is that all.
personally i prefer my characters to be more tomboyish like me and to be honest feminine armour tends to me more impractical than simply ornate.
Yeah. There's not enough for me to not play Female Inquisitors at all. Just enough that made me decide to play as a Male Inquisitor first.
I don't think anyone is asking for the ability for the player character to carry that out. Its a debate on whether scenes like the one from the City Elf origin are acceptable.
I know, but just thought I'd comment.
Anyway, regarding the City Elf origin, I'm not entirely opposed to this sort of thing being depicted in these games. I guess where it's problematic is that it basically meets my expectations that it would be focused entirely on the female elves, and there's no one amongst the scummy shems that would have a less discriminate elven fetish. If you play the male elf, it's just a lighter source of drama and a chance to [try to] save the day. It's this sort of thing that makes being able to choose between genders pretty invaluable, since it allows you to change perspectives.
What about torture?
There are a lot of similarities between rape victims and survivors of torture, and both can experience lasting psychological trauma. Torture is commonly depicted or implied in video games. In Dragon Age for example we see characters being tortured in sneaking through Howe's dungeon or in the escape from Fort Drakon. There is also the dialogue at the Landsmeet where one of the Banns says that the the things done to his son while imprisoned by Howe/Loghain, is beyond any healer's skill.
I do think it is a bit of a double standard if we say that it must be never implied that a character was raped in a video game, while torture being portrayed or implied is rather common. I'm not sure I see a difference between the two.
That is a good point about the similarities however...
I think the issue is that torture is not something that people have to worry about as the number of torture victums is small. I don't have to worry about getting tortured nor is anyone I know likely to ever be tortured. yet rape is a different story it is a common crime and it is a reality that women have to alter their behaviour for fear of getting raped. ie don't park the car here in a dark and isolated spot. park it in a higher traffic lighted area. You simply don't have these worries with torture. At least in the markets where most games are sold. I think this difference allows us to view torture in an abstract way, which means its not on par with rape. The context of the crime torture is very different to the context of rape in our culture because of teh fequence of one crime and the reality of the fact that just the threat of one of these crimes changes the behaviour of a significant portion of the population. i don't think this is a trivial difference.
I also think that type of media also creates a different experience. Playing a game is an interactive experience and does light up different parts of the brain than passive watching does. So I think this creates a difference in what things the media should address. I am not willing to say that its imposible to referance rape in a video game but I am willing to say its wrong for the player to be the victim or the rapist.
[edit] the city elf experience is very different depending on the sex. If you play it as a male it is everything anita points out it is. So would a better way of telling that story to have been to kept it for the female warden but removed the threat of rape implied or otherwise for the male warden? Far too often women in media are used as victims and when captured the assumption is rape is a real threat. I think Anita is saying we need to stop making this the default setting for telling stories not that these stories can never be told again.
What about torture?
There are a lot of similarities between rape victims and survivors of torture, and both can experience lasting psychological trauma. Torture is commonly depicted or implied in video games. In Dragon Age for example we see characters being tortured in sneaking through Howe's dungeon or in the escape from Fort Drakon. There is also the dialogue at the Landsmeet where one of the Banns says that the the things done to his son while imprisoned by Howe/Loghain, is beyond any healer's skill.
I do think it is a bit of a double standard if we say that it must be never implied that a character was raped in a video game, while torture being portrayed or implied is rather common. I'm not sure I see a difference between the two.
Yeah I'd say rape is basically a form of torture, especially if the victim is physically hurt by it.
If anyone watches Game of Thrones... yea Theon's predicament is way worse than any kind of rape.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Personally, I've always viewed rape equal with murder. In some ways worse.. It's such a gross violation of the only thing we truly own (our bodies), and the victim has to live with it.
And I know some won't like this, but I'd want to punish the perpetrators equally too. And in my case, there wouldn't be any mercy in it either way.
Yeah I'd say rape is basically a form of torture, especially if the victim is physically hurt by it.
If anyone watches Game of Thrones... yea Theon's predicament is way worse than any kind of rape.
Err Theon is sexually assulted during the torture so its not exactly like he was "just tortured" he was also sexually assulted.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Can I add that a game like Dragon Age...
Probably plays more into my desire to kill rapists (and other assorted bastards). Rather than anything to do with glorifying or trivializing it.
I don't know if that's better or not, but there it is. I love the lack of Red Tape. Fantasy is therapeutic.
Err Theon is sexually assulted during the torture so its not exactly like he was "just tortured" he was also sexually assulted.
Was he ever sodomised? If you're referring to what I think you are I think that fits better with mutilation. In any case the most horrifying thing is the effect on his state of mind.
That is a good point about the similarities however...
I think the issue is that torture is not something that people have to worry about as the number of torture victums is small. I don't have to worry about getting tortured nor is anyone I know likely to ever be tortured. yet rape is a different story it is a common crime and it is a reality that women have to alter their behaviour for fear of getting raped. ie don't park the car here in a dark and isolated spot. park it in a higher traffic lighted area. You simply don't have these worries with torture. At least in the markets where most games are sold. I think this difference allows us to view torture in an abstract way, which means its not on par with rape. The context of the crime torture is very different to the context of rape in our culture because of teh fequence of one crime and the reality of the fact that just the threat of one of these crimes changes the behaviour of a significant portion of the population. i don't think this is a trivial difference.
I also think that type of media also creates a different experience. Playing a game is an interactive experience and does light up different parts of the brain than passive watching does. So I think this creates a difference in what things the media should address. I am not willing to say that its imposible to referance rape in a video game but I am willing to say its wrong for the player to be the victim or the rapist.
[edit] the city elf experience is very different depending on the sex. If you play it as a male it is everything anita points out it is. So would a better way of telling that story to have been to kept it for the female warden but removed the threat of rape implied or otherwise for the male warden?
I don't really agree with that, because how do you quantify exactly "enough people have experienced it that should be considered off-limits"? While not a perfect analogy, that way of thinking goes along the same line of "most players are males, let's cater to them" or "only 10% of people are gay, why do we have so many gay LIs?". If anything, the prevalence of rape only makes its inclusion in some situations a rational development of the scenario. I don't think horrific tortures committed by a player would be considered less wrong than rape either, unless it's part of an interrogation or something.
If some nutter wants to publish a rape fantasy, we as a society might permit it because we view expression in itself as a valuable, but that doesn't make the author less of a worthless nutter.
And I hold that this is a reasonable opinion if and only if you hold anyone publishing a murder fantasy (note: murder, not killing in general) to the same standard.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Would some of you be more satisified if Rape was a subject included in a story, but it sparked intelligent discussion? And possibly education even..
Or are you just more willing to keep it off limits? Because I don't see what that solves either. It's just ignoring the problem. Rape exists. Should we leave discussing it to other people - but forbid the media?
Would some of you be more satisified if Rape was a subject included in a story, but it sparked intelligent discussion? And possibly education even..
Or are you just more willing to keep it off limits? Because I don't see what that solves either. It's just ignoring the problem. Rape exists. Should we leave discussing it to other people - but forbid the media?
My issue is it's a throwaway line or two mostly for extra angst/evil factor and that's it.
So it actually being used as more than a cheap plot device sure! I have no issue with that.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
My issue is it's a throwaway line or two mostly for extra angst/evil factor and that's it.
So it actually being used as more than a cheap plot device sure! I have no issue with that.
Well, on the plus side.. I think this instance in DAO - which could have been throwaway.. has been elevated to something more substantial. Ironically, I'll thank Anita for that. This game came out in 2009, and the quest has been overlooked for some time.
Well, on the plus side.. I think this instance in DAO - which could have been throwaway.. has been elevated to something more substantial. Ironically, I'll thank Anita for that. This game came out in 2009, and the quest has been overlooked for some time.
Hopefully. We'll see come DAI I guess 
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Hopefully. We'll see come DAI I guess
No offense, but are you quoting the wrong post? 
I don't know what yours has to do with mine.
Well, a few things. To limit it to three:
1) The lack of options in the CC to make characters that I wanted to make.
I've always wondered about this - how could you decide want you wanted your character to look like before the character creator was revealed?
Personally I never decide on what my character is going to look like, be like or romance, until these options are revealed. Otherwise I'm just setting myself up for disappointment.
Would some of you be more satisified if Rape was a subject included in a story, but it sparked intelligent discussion? And possibly education even..
Or are you just more willing to keep it off limits? Because I don't see what that solves either. It's just ignoring the problem. Rape exists. Should we leave discussing it to other people - but forbid the media? I don't understand.
My major problem with rape in any form of media is that it 9 times out of 10 it is being used for one of two reasons.
In the second case the hero generally has sex with the woman and then that magically fixes her physiological issues.
I've no issue with a media trying to discuss the subject or even have it as a plot point, but I do wish that it was used in different ways and explored better, rather than be used as a cheap shorthand explanation for someones character.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
In the second case the hero generally has sex with the woman and then that magically fixes her physiological issues.
The good thing is that we don't have to go through that with Bioware. We can always change the "hero's" approach.
I see this complaint thrown at one Bioware's characters though -- Jack -- but I blame it on the players for viewing it that way. They overlook that in the Jack romance that Shepard has an option (Paragon options mostly) to play the part of the "fixer". But you can also play someone who understands her, and likes her the way she is. That he doesn't find it so bad if she influenced him instead.
Yet some people who are so immersed in their Paragon mentality blame the whole game's writing, when it was only how they personally approached it.
Well, on the plus side.. I think this instance in DAO - which could have been throwaway.. has been elevated to something more substantial. Ironically, I'll thank Anita for that. This game came out in 2009, and the quest has been overlooked for some time.
How? DAO just used rape as a way to motivate the hero and make their backstory more dramatic. Not much substance there.
No offense, but are you quoting the wrong post?
Hm my bad I assumed you meant the devs might use it in a less shallow manner next time. (not even going to get into Kerass)
Guest_StreetMagic_*
How? DAO just used rape as a way to motivate the hero and make their backstory more dramatic. Not much substance there.
I'm saying it could have been throway as it stands, but now that Anita criticized it, we're all actually having an intelligent discussion on the issue. So I'll thank her for that.
The good thing is that we don't have to go through that with Bioware. We can always change the "hero's" approach.
I see this complaint thrown at one Bioware's characters though -- Jack -- but I blame it on the players for viewing it that way. They overlook that in the Jack romance that Shepard has an option (Paragon options mostly) to play the part of the "fixer". But you can also play someone who understands her, and likes her the way she is. That he doesn't find it so bad if she influenced him instead.
Yet some people who are so immersed in their Paragon mentality blame the whole game's writing, when it was only how they personally approached it.
While I understand your point, I don't agree.
Paragon Shepard wasn't the 'fixer' for anyone else jut Jack. Then again, I think BioWare handled the trope well and I don't think there would've been as much outcry if there weren't so many poor examples.
Using magical sex sparingly is fine, it can help some women who have suffered abuse to have sex with a person they trust, but its over use leads people to reject it in all its forms.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
While I understand your point, I don't agree.
Paragon Shepard wasn't the 'fixer' for anyone else jut Jack. Then again, I think how BioWare handled the trope well and I don't think there would've been as much outcry there weren't so many poor examples.
Using magical sex sparingly is fine, it can help some women who have suffered abuse to have sex with a person they trust, but its over use leads people to reject it in all its forms.
I think he's a fixer for Garrus as well.
What I like about the Renegade lines with Jack though is he likes her for who she is. It's also funnier.
"But I'll just **** you up."
"Here's hoping."
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