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Could we please see more of the Lady Inquisitor?


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#826
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It took me over six or seven playthroughs (or more, maybe) before I ever even tried Dude-Shep. I actually played through a bunch with a single lady Shep. Mer Shepard. (short for Meredith---it was sort of an in joke if you ever shipped John/Rodney from SGA)  The only reason I ever even played as DudeShep was because I could play him gay in ME3. After that, I ended up going through with him a few times to do all the romances. But that first playthrough? Felt weird at times. Mer Shepard has been my canon Shep for a long time. (Though, she used to be a white red-head with a bob-type cut...now she is a black woman with short black hair.)

 

That's also the only reason I tried dude Shep. And let me tell ya... the gay thing was the ONLY reason I stuck with him. Man that voice acting was just... Being with lady Shepard for so long and then switching to THAT was pretty tough. :P

 

I am very very excited to hear lady Inquisitor some day. If the VA is anywhere near as talented as Jennifer Hale, I will be over the moon.



#827
Nefla

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Certain games (like DA2) I play mostly male because the CC for the female version is so limited and they all look like they have potato face.


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#828
Darth Krytie

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Certain games (like DA2) I play mostly male because the CC for the female version is so limited and they all look like they have potato face.

 

I ended up doing it because I preferred dudeHawke's VA. But, yeah, none of them were as cute as Canon Lady Hawke, but I didn't like that I couldn't edit her default to change her eye or hair colour.

 

I'm insanely curious about the VAs for Inquisition. I wonder how soon we'll be able to hear at least one Lady Inquisitor VA.  I need it for...Justice.



#829
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Unfortunately this kind of gendering is rife, and not just in gaming.  And companies tend to eat it up, and push parents to do the same thing.  When I was little, there were games marketed to both genders.  Lincoln logs.  Legos.  Now Lincoln Logs and Legos are boy toys only, except for the girl Legos (I forget what they are called) that are, apparently, already partly made and such.  But part of that is because Legos come as kits, now, rather than bricks you can make whatever you like with.

 

Pink games for girls have been around since the early days of gaming, but now gaming stores etc. are just rife with them.  And, you don't really see any "older" games for girls, i.e. Teen-rated games for teen girls or M rated games for adult women, unless those games are gender neutral.  Then there are parents who are horrified their children will turn out to be gay/lesbian if they're into the "wrong" gender of stuff.  I think they need to worry less about that and more about the content of the game, and what it's telling their children.

 

I know someone who worries horribly about his son being gay because he likes My Little Pony stuff and plays with his big sister's games from time to time.  But the kid also loves trucks and cars and racing and engines and typical boy stuff.  He likes My Little Pony probably for the same reason most of the teen-to-adult bronies do:  apparently it's actually a really good cartoon (I haven't watched it, so I don't know).  As for playing with his sister's spa games... well, admit it, it's pretty hilarious to stick cucumbers over someone's eyes and paint their face with green mud.  And it's even funnier to a young child.

 

Something that I meant to comment on before, but it was late, or something...  Regarding the low number of female characters actually played to completion in Mass Effect.  Women are more likely to play male characters than female, and more likely to be okay with playing men than men are to be called upon to play as a female.  The same is true for novels.  A woman is more willing to read novels with male protagonists, whereas men often think novels with female protagonists are too girly (same person as above was also afraid boy-child might become gay because he read books about girls--I say they should be happy that the child enjoys reading a good story regardless who it's about--no one thinks a girl is going to be a lesbian for reading a story about boys).

 

Basically, the way I've seen this explained--and I tend to agree--women are trained from birth to empathize with men, to be able to put ourselves in their shoes.  We are inundated from childhood with male animal cartoon characters, male heroes in our cartoons, male protagonists in our novels, TV shows with boys and men as the stars.  The characters we are expected to understand and enjoy are predominantly male, even today, even in 2014.  Most children's book characters are male, even the nonhuman ones--girls are expected to read about boys as much as about girls, whereas boys are generally expected to only read about boys, even if the boy in question is a puppy or a giraffe.  Most men are, on the other hand, taught from their boyhood days  that they must never be at all feminine, and to avoid anything girly--no watching cartoons with female characters, no reading books with female characters, because those are for girls only (even if the entire plot or premise of that media is gender-neutral).  Putting themselves into a woman's shoes would classify as overly feminine, unless they claim to do so for the sake of sex appeal.  And women are also generally told we should expect a man to protect us/take care of us, so many women do gravitate toward male heroes, because they have never been taught that they can/should be their own heroes.  That's the society we live in.  it's not true for absolutely everyone's upbringing, but I'd argue that everyone who hasn't been living as a hermit has been exposed to at least a little bit of it, through school, daycare, babysitters, etc. 

 

So basically, a lot of women will still play the male protagonist, if he's the default, and some will play the male option even if the female character is given equal presentation.  (This is particularly true for ME2 and ME3, when women playing the game were likely to not only be starting a game with a default male, but also might be loading from a save where their character was male in the game before.)  That doesn't mean that they aren't playing, and it doesn't mean that the female character should not be marketed.  A lot of women like the idea of being their own heroes, and showing them that the game isn't just about another man character, but that they can make their own unique woman character, would go a long way to appealing to a broader female audience.  It may also encourage some of those women who otherwise would feel like the male is the "real" or "right" version to actually play the female character, making the balance a bit less skewed toward male overall in which character is actually played.

 

But what do I know...?

I think novels and movies are different since the protagonist is fixed and you'd be missing out on most of the greatest movies you only watched ones with female leads.

 

What your post made me wonder about was how many non-white players play a white character. I sus[ect the numbers will be worse, and unlike playing a different gendered character, that doesn't even give a different gameplay experience



#830
Brass_Buckles

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I think novels and movies are different since the protagonist is fixed and you'd be missing out on most of the greatest movies you only watched ones with female leads.

 

What your post made me wonder about was how many non-white players play a white character. I sus[ect the numbers will be worse, and unlike playing a different gendered character, that doesn't even give a different gameplay experience

 

Novels and movies are a different media, but many games also have a fixed protagonist, and it's usually male--with the exception of games marketed at very young children, or games that overly sexualize the female protagonist in order to market it toward a male audience.  They are not usually the big-budget games.

 

Why must I miss out on a good movie or TV show in order to watch one with a female lead, anyway?  You don't have to think too hard about that.  Writers mostly write novels and movies with male leads.  Or, they don't, but those are the ones that end up published or filmed.  And it is a problem, in the same way that the lack of the female Inquisitor (or other female protagonists) in game marketing is a problem.  Otherwise, women authors wouldn't have to resort to using pen names or their initials in order to have a modicum of success in traditionally male-dominated genres.  (J.K. Rowling, anyone?)  Women authors have a notoriously difficult time getting gritty fantasy (think along the lines of A Song of Ice and Fire) published, unless they do so under a male pseudonym.  And it's because we are taught, and marketing continues to tell us, that stuff by women or stuff that includes women isn't as good as stuff by men or stuff that includes men, and men shouldn't read it/watch it because it would be too girly and then they somehow wouldn't be manly enough.

 

That said I believe you miss out on the entire point of my post, which is to say that societally speaking we are conditioned to think that Feminine is Lesser or Worse Than Masculine, and that game marketing plays into this by, for the most part, not advertising to women at all, under the assumption that women will consume the product anyway.  The same is true for why action movies tend to lean toward male protagonists, even though overall the biggest movie-consumers are young women (I don't have links to those stats, but I do remember it's apparently teen-to-twenties women who are the biggest moviegoers).  The problem with this is that the market is apparently sizeable for women, but could be more so if marketing were directed at women.  Marketing COULD make gaming a more comfortable environment for women simply by saying "you can play this too, so try it out."  Even for those who won't play female characters anyway, this would likely be a big step forward in acknowledging that this game is for them too (hey look, a woman warrior who isn't using underwear for armor, that's kind of different).

 

The big problem with this is that, I've seen oodles of stories in this thread alone, and likely there are thousands if not millions more stories out there from women in the real world, about how if they had known that X game had allowed them to play a woman, they would have bought it sooner.  Marketing matters.


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#831
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That's also the only reason I tried dude Shep. And let me tell ya... the gay thing was the ONLY reason I stuck with him. Man that voice acting was just... Being with lady Shepard for so long and then switching to THAT was pretty tough. :P

 

I am very very excited to hear lady Inquisitor some day. If the VA is anywhere near as talented as Jennifer Hale, I will be over the moon.

Funny enough I liked Meer and didn't like Hales voice acting. To me she always sounded to angry and pissed off every line.


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#832
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Yeah, Hale's shepard voice sounds really forced and she's trying too hard to be tough often. But I do like her other stuff.


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#833
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Yeah, Hale's shepard voice sounds really forced and she's trying too hard to be tough often. But I do like her other stuff.

Same.



#834
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No taste, the two of you, clearly. Hale was perfection.


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#835
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Even the jacob conversations? :D


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#836
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No taste, the two of you, clearly. Hale was perfection.

It's all subjective either way, I just found her performance to forced.



#837
Darth Krytie

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Even the jacob conversations? :D

 

UGH. Okay. I will give you that. I hated hated hated the "hey baby" sound of her talking to him.


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#838
oceanicsurvivor

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Funny enough I liked Meer and didn't like Hales voice acting. To me she always sounded to angry and pissed off every line.

 

You'd be surprised how much of that is related to the social conditioning we all get that says women aren't 'supposed' to sound angry, assertive, authoritative (and god forbid be likeable at the same time).

 

That said, I played Male Shep first (b/c of some of the problems Brass Buckles and others brought up earlier...) and when I went back to try and play through as FemShep in anticipation of ME3...thinking Ash would be a romance and I could finally have it all in a lovely super gay space epic...she had a whispyness? I guess to her voice that I liked, but didn't like for Shepard. I've only ever played half a game as FemShep, which really bums me out, but its definitely not b/c she sounds too angry haha. FemHawke is similar for me, but I've actually managed to get through that successfully, but that was pretty recent.


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#839
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You'd be surprised how much of that is related to the social conditioning we all get that says women aren't 'supposed' to sound angry, assertive, authoritative (and god forbid be likeable at the same time).

Or it could be that it sounds to put on. Considering her other roles and her normal speaking voice it sounds off. It would be like if I tried to do the same it just wouldn't sound right. Besides Vasquez and Ripley from the Aliens films are awesome and could be considered angry, authoritative and assertive yet likable.



#840
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Funny enough I liked Meer and didn't like Hales voice acting. To me she always sounded to angry and pissed off every line.

 That's why I used femshep as a renegade B)


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#841
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 That's why I used femshep as a renegade B)

As a constant paragon player i'm guessing that wouldn't work for me :(



#842
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Or it could be that it sounds to put on. Considering her other roles and her normal speaking voice it sounds off. It would be like if I tried to do the same it just wouldn't sound right. Besides Vasquez and Ripley from the Aliens films are awesome and could be considered angry, authoritative and assertive.  

 

Heh to me Meer's voice seems to be too put on, as he sounds different on other projects. And I've heard a lot of people explain away his odd monotone by saying "ohhh well uhh that's how a commander is supposed to sound", completely ignoring other people in positions of power in that game like Anderson (was that his name??) who was higher ranking but still had some inflection in his voice.

 

I gotta say though that my heart nearly gave out during male Shepard's first "date" with Kaidan. He said something like, "You?... And... me? Yeah. I think I'd like that." And it seemed so SOFT and SWEET to me... Like this ice cold commander finally showed a bit of feeling and UGH. Oh my god. :wub:

 

I am way off topic. Sorry. Just had to share that haha.


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#843
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Heh to me Meer's voice seems to be too put on, as he sounds different on other projects. And I've heard a lot of people explain away his odd monotone by saying "ohhh well uhh that's how a commander is supposed to sound", completely ignoring other people in positions of power in that game like Anderson (was that his name??) who was higher ranking but still had some inflection in his voice.

 

I gotta say though that my heart nearly gave out during male Shepard's first "date" with Kaidan. He said something like, "You?... And... me? Yeah. I think I'd like that." And it seemed so SOFT and SWEET to me... Like this ice cold commander finally showed a bit of feeling and UGH. Oh my god. :wub:

 

I am way off topic. Sorry. Just had to share that haha.

Well according to Meer they were told to sound neutral in general dialogue (non paragon/renegade options) so that players can build the character as they see them. Trying to do a renegade playthough if the character sounds all light and cheery would seem odd. By extension that FShep sounds so annoyed all the time and that a lot of people seem to agree that Renegade FShep suits her best it could be argued that Hale failed to voice a neutral character. 



#844
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Something that I meant to comment on before, but it was late, or something...  Regarding the low number of female characters actually played to completion in Mass Effect.  Women are more likely to play male characters than female, and more likely to be okay with playing men than men are to be called upon to play as a female.  The same is true for novels.  A woman is more willing to read novels with male protagonists, whereas men often think novels with female protagonists are too girly (same person as above was also afraid boy-child might become gay because he read books about girls--I say they should be happy that the child enjoys reading a good story regardless who it's about--no one thinks a girl is going to be a lesbian for reading a story about boys).

 

I don't really beleive it when I've seen MMO studies showing that men are more likely play the opposite gender than women. Maybe MMOs are different though.

 

I think the low number of female characters played to completion in ME is just simple due to not many women playing ME. Gamevision says only 14% of players are female in Europe.


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#845
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Novels and movies are a different media, but many games also have a fixed protagonist, and it's usually male--with the exception of games marketed at very young children, or games that overly sexualize the female protagonist in order to market it toward a male audience.  They are not usually the big-budget games.

 

Why must I miss out on a good movie or TV show in order to watch one with a female lead, anyway?  You don't have to think too hard about that.  Writers mostly write novels and movies with male leads.  Or, they don't, but those are the ones that end up published or filmed.  And it is a problem, in the same way that the lack of the female Inquisitor (or other female protagonists) in game marketing is a problem.  Otherwise, women authors wouldn't have to resort to using pen names or their initials in order to have a modicum of success in traditionally male-dominated genres.  (J.K. Rowling, anyone?)  Women authors have a notoriously difficult time getting gritty fantasy (think along the lines of A Song of Ice and Fire) published, unless they do so under a male pseudonym.  And it's because we are taught, and marketing continues to tell us, that stuff by women or stuff that includes women isn't as good as stuff by men or stuff that includes men, and men shouldn't read it/watch it because it would be too girly and then they somehow wouldn't be manly enough.

 

That said I believe you miss out on the entire point of my post, which is to say that societally speaking we are conditioned to think that Feminine is Lesser or Worse Than Masculine, and that game marketing plays into this by, for the most part, not advertising to women at all, under the assumption that women will consume the product anyway.  The same is true for why action movies tend to lean toward male protagonists, even though overall the biggest movie-consumers are young women (I don't have links to those stats, but I do remember it's apparently teen-to-twenties women who are the biggest moviegoers).  The problem with this is that the market is apparently sizeable for women, but could be more so if marketing were directed at women.  Marketing COULD make gaming a more comfortable environment for women simply by saying "you can play this too, so try it out."  Even for those who won't play female characters anyway, this would likely be a big step forward in acknowledging that this game is for them too (hey look, a woman warrior who isn't using underwear for armor, that's kind of different).

 

The big problem with this is that, I've seen oodles of stories in this thread alone, and likely there are thousands if not millions more stories out there from women in the real world, about how if they had known that X game had allowed them to play a woman, they would have bought it sooner.  Marketing matters.

 

You know, I've also seen men who said they wouldn't buy a game unless it allowed them to play a woman.

 

Re: film and television, while all the stifling of women that may happen behind the scenes is wrong, calling up Vince GIlligan to tell him to change the leads to Walterlina and Jessica Pinkman for the sake of "inclusion" doesn't seem right either. Which is why I said they're different.

 

Haven't action movies always been targeted primarily at males, even more so than any other movie though? Like the male's chick flick? Anyway you'll find that with recent movies female fans greatly enjoy gawking at the handsome white males while gay shipping them.

 

May have been that way in the past, but I think it's not bad these days, after all this is the same world where men openly and flamboyantly express their love for my little pony. I personally never had this problem when I was growing up, though I remember thinking it was kinda cool that Lizzie in Rampage was a girl. But you know, had she not been, I probably would still pick the giant lizard every time.



#846
Nefla

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Well according to Meer they were told to sound neutral in general dialogue (non paragon/renegade options) so that players can build the character as they see them. Trying to do a renegade playthough if the character sounds all light and cheery would seem odd. By extension that FShep sounds so annoyed all the time and that a lot of people seem to agree that Renegade FShep it could be argued that Hale failed to voice a neutral character. 

I also found her voice suited a strict, by the book character but not a soft and gentle character so it was limiting in that way.


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#847
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I don't really beleive it when I've seen MMO studies showing that men are more likely play the opposite gender than women. Maybe MMOs are different though.

 

I think the low number of female characters played to completion in ME is just simple due to not many women playing ME. Gamevision says only 14% of players are female in Europe.

If you just look at these forums, I bet 90% of males have played femshep or prefers her.



#848
Brass_Buckles

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I don't really beleive it when I've seen MMO studies showing that men are more likely play the opposite gender than women. Maybe MMOs are different though.

 

I think the low number of female characters played to completion in ME is just simple due to not many women playing ME. Gamevision says only 14% of players are female in Europe.

 

MMOs are a different beast entirely, since you're there to play with others.  People behave differently in groups than alone.

 

Edited because was post sense my not making.



#849
Darth Krytie

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You know, I've also seen men who said they wouldn't buy a game unless it allowed them to play a woman.

 

Re: film and television, while all the stifling of women that may happen behind the scenes is wrong, calling up Vince GIlligan to tell him to change the leads to Walterlina and Jessica Pinkman for the sake of "inclusion" doesn't seem right either. Which is why I said they're different.

 

Haven't action movies always been targeted primarily at males, even more so than any other movie though? Like the male's chick flick? Anyway you'll find that with recent movies female fans greatly enjoy gawking at the handsome white males while gay shipping them.

 

May have been that way in the past, but I think it's not bad these days, after all this is the same world where men openly and flamboyantly express their love for my little pony. I personally never had this problem when I was growing up, though I remember thinking it was kinda cool that Lizzie in Rampage was a girl. But you know, had she not been, I probably would still pick the giant lizard every time.

 

I've always loved action movies, and have also always hated romance movies--nothing but a bunch of sexist, misogynist tripe, the lot of them--but it really had little to do with the hot white men and shipping them, and more to do with the guns and explosions. I like guns and I like explosions. I dislike movies about how some dude can treat a woman like crap for a whole film, run to an airport to stop her from actually being rid of him with a bunch of flowers, and have her magically forget he's a douchebag. Ugh. I also dislike crying and long, boring expository love confessions. Who ever even talks like that?


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#850
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By extension that FShep sounds so annoyed all the time and that a lot of people seem to agree that Renegade FShep it could be argued that Hale failed to voice a neutral character. 

 

"You'd be surprised how much of that is related to the social conditioning we all get that says women aren't 'supposed' to sound angry, assertive, authoritative (and god forbid be likeable at the same time)."

 

I'm not saying her voice work is above criticism,  but it is important to keep in mind the social context in which all these people are agreeing that a woman in authority sounds 'too angry'. :) Thats all I'm saying.

 

 

 

Re: film and television, while all the stifling of women that may happen behind the scenes is wrong, calling up Vince GIlligan to tell him to change the leads to Walterlina and Jessica Pinkman for the sake of "inclusion" doesn't seem right either. Which is why I said they're different.

 

Haven't action movies always been targeted primarily at males, even more so than any other movie though? Like the male's chick flick? Anyway you'll find that with recent movies female fans greatly enjoy gawking at the handsome white males while gay shipping them.

 

May have been that way in the past, but I think it's not bad these days, after all this is the same world where men openly and flamboyantly express their love for my little pony. I personally never had this problem when I was growing up, though I remember thinking it was kinda cool that Lizzie in Rampage was a girl. But you know, had she not been, I probably would still pick the giant lizard every time.

 

Well for one...Breaking Bad is quite arguably a character portrait about what it means to be male in our society and the way in which power and the pursuit of it influences men who feel they have none. That said....(straight) men aren't ever included in media "for the sake of inclusion". They're just there. Because its expected. Women however are constantly held to this bar of, "well why does she haveta be a woman? How does that impact the story?" SOOOO many articles about this topic, particularly on gaming forums say things like 'I'm fine with a female/person of color/gay character as long as it isn't forced'. That is literally the weakest argument there is because it isn't one that works both ways. "I'm fine with a male/white/straight character as long as it isn't forced.'


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