9318 réponses à ce sujet

[veeia]

I like how your point was literally disproven by an actual Bioware employee, but you ignored that to make some vague, nonsensical "gotcha"???

[Grieving Natashina]

I like how your point was literally disproven by an actual Bioware employee, but you ignored that to make some vague, nonsensical "gotcha"???

And truly, my feelings are crushed.  

[Ryzaki]

*sigh* http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar

 

Spoiler'd for large image

Spoiler

 

Yep. Females are a completely insignificant number of game players and shouldn't be marketed to. Clearly. Wonderful female gaming unicorns.

[Lumix19]

*sigh* http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar

 

Spoiler'd for large image

Spoiler

 

Yep. Females are a completely insignificant number of game players and shouldn't be marketed to. Clearly. Wonderful female gaming unicorns.

Thanks for this, it's quite interesting.

[Grieving Natashina]

Hmm, I wonder what the PC numbers would be (my preferred platform.)  That's one part I'm curious about, if there is any demographics on that.

[veeia]

Statistics are not to be trusted. Not since Academia got into bed with Big Feminism. They've taken math away from us, what's next????

...I assume that's where people will take it, at least.

That was a very interesting read, thank you. I particularly found it interesting that RPGS ranked first for women on consoles, not last as a lot of people would claim.

[Ryzaki]

Hmm, I wonder what the PC numbers would be (my preferred platform.)  That's one part I'm curious about, if there is any demographics on that.

 

Yeah I was curious as well. Hopefully a study will be done on it soon.

[JadePrince]

Statistics are not to be trusted. Not since Academia got into bed with Big Feminism. They've taken math away from us, what's next????

...I assume that's where people will take it, at least.

That was a very interesting read, thank you. I particularly found it interesting that RPGS ranked first for women on consoles, not last as a lot of people would claim.

 

I bet it has a lot to do with the fact that RPGs are the most likely genre to consistently allow you to play as a female character.

[Ryzaki]

Statistics are not to be trusted. Not since Academia got into bed with Big Feminism. They've taken math away from us, what's next????

...I assume that's where people will take it, at least.

That was a very interesting read, thank you. I particularly found it interesting that RPGS ranked first for women on consoles, not last as a lot of people would claim.

 

The first games I ever played were JRPGs. I liked it because of the whole friendship aspect. Them and fighting games.

 

Then I played JE and fell in love with BW games so utterly (Mostly because I could play a female who was in command and she could have a romance? I think my brain exploded).

[Lennard Testarossa]

Could someone link the study? I can't seem to find it.

[Grieving Natashina]

The first games I ever played were JRPGs. I liked it because of the whole friendship aspect. Them and fighting games.

 

Then I played JE and fell in love with BW games so utterly (Mostly because I could play a female who was in command and she could have a romance? I think my brain exploded).

I think you'd like this.  I know, I know, we're not supposed to read the comments on articles like those, but sometimes they are gold:

 

I immediately demand a doubling of the number of active women console gamers, on the basis that this will net me more awesome RPGs to play.

 

I like this person.  

[DaySeeker]

With the amount of monitoring companies are able to do and do with their games nowadays I would love to see who plays what kind of Inquisitor and has what kind of love interest and uses which companions.  I don't think they could tell the gender of those who played them with that data, but I think it would show the popularity of female PC's.  

[Ryzaki]

I think you'd like this.  I know, I know, we're not supposed to read the comments on articles like those, but sometimes they are gold:

 

 

I like this person.  

 

Sometimes you find some gems true.

 

Yes brilliance.

[veeia]

With the amount of monitoring companies are able to do and do with their games nowadays I would love to see who plays what kind of Inquisitor and has what kind of love interest and uses which companions.  I don't think they could tell the gender of those who played them with that data, but I think it would show the popularity of female PC's.  

 

Agreed. And with the "default" (first displayed) gender being randomized, that should give us even more interesting data. I'm really glad they did that, for many reasons, but also for that. 

[Ryzaki]

Could someone link the study? I can't seem to find it.

 

? The one we're talking about? It's in my earlier post:

 

http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar
 

[Grieving Natashina]

With the amount of monitoring companies are able to do and do with their games nowadays I would love to see who plays what kind of Inquisitor and has what kind of love interest and uses which companions.  I don't think they could tell the gender of those who played them with that data, but I think it would show the popularity of female PC's.  

I'm hoping they are tracking the telemetry for this.  I am immensely intrigued by the possible results.

[akabane_k]

"We LET women buy and play the games that are made for and by men, why can't they just be happy with that?"

 

"Why should the gaming industry pander to GIRLS by actually acknowledging that they exist or, god forbid, that women-led/starring games could be just as lucrative and engaging if we invested the same time/care/budget into them as we do into all the AAA games starring scruffy white men?"

 

"Why aren't you happy with crumbs, just because the rest of us are eating cake?"

most of the dev gameplay demos had female inquisitors. The trailers had male.

Response should have been "thats fair, each gets their own part." instead its "make trailers with female inquisitor"

 

I wouldnt have had a problem if it was reversed with female trailers and male demos, but wanting both for 1 gender is exactly "give them an inch and they take a mile".

[veeia]

I am pretty sure they are tracking it. I think I remember one dev (Ryan Treadwell, maybe?) mentioning that specifically in regard to the female PCs and the randomizing effect. 

[Lennard Testarossa]

? The one we're talking about? It's in my earlier post:

 

http://www.gamesindu...fferences-eedar
 

 

Yes, the one you are talking about, but it isn't in that link. Or at least, if it is there, I can't find it. I'm not looking for the pictures, but for the study they are based on.

[veeia]

most of the dev gameplay demos had female inquisitors. The trailers had male.

Response should have been "thats fair, each gets their own part." instead its "make trailers with female inquisitor"

 

I wouldnt have had a problem if it was reversed with female trailers and male demos, but wanting both for 1 gender is exactly "give them an inch and they take a mile".

 

I am very grateful that the devs played female PCs in the streams, and I do believe they did it partially as an effort to counteract the main marketing arm, which they have much less control over. That's wonderful.

 

But those streams were made for fans or for people who are following the development or for people who are interested in games to an extent that they probably know Bioware's set-up enough to understand they can customize the gender. (As well as the fact that many of the streams explicitly stated this and showed the male quizzie in the CC) They have much less viewers and even fewer uninformed viewers than the main marketing arm.

 

The main marketing arm does not send the message that a female PC exists as an equal to the male Quizzie. Therefore, the people who would be interested in that, but aren't game savvy, would not know it. It's a much different level of exposure and support. That's concerning on several levels that has nothing to do with me personally. It's not that I feel entitled to see a female PC trailer, it's that the continued devaluing of the female PC from a macro level is disturbing and frankly, very outdated. 

[Ryzaki]

Yes, the one you are talking about, but it isn't in that link. Or at least, if it is there, I can't find it. I'm not looking for the pictures, but for the study they are based on.

 

Oooh. Tweet her for a link? There's a twitter link near the bottom.

[Allan Schumacher]

most of the dev gameplay demos had female inquisitors. The trailers had male.

Response should have been "thats fair, each gets their own part." instead its "make trailers with female inquisitor"

 

I wouldnt have had a problem if it was reversed with female trailers and male demos, but wanting both for 1 gender is exactly "give them an inch and they take a mile".

 

It's important to consider the context of the post that kind of started this derailment, which was basically omitting hundreds of pages of discussion with an explanation for why it shouldn't be done.

 

I see the distribution as being pretty even because I see it in its entirety.  Some feel that it'd be better if the distribution existed between demos and trailers because of the audiences that exist within them.  It's okay for us to disagree in this regard, and it's merely a talking point.

It's not "give them an inch and take a mile," it's discourse.  Sometimes we make attempts and they don't work out as well, and while effort is typically appreciated, effort in the wrong way isn't as productive.  Someone has a hypothesis that the effort could be used in a better way and they feel that the breakdown of trailer and demo is important, and they rationalized it via the hypothesis that the trailer is seen by more people that aren't already fans, while demos are consumed by fans who presumably already know male/female options exist.  It's a logical conclusion... I don't know if it's true.  I don't know if it is false either though.  It's just talking, really.

 

That said, I don't have the data, and I don't think people here do.  I think that the demos are undersold a bit, but it's okay for us to disagree and talk.  It's okay for fans to not have a perfect understanding of logistical challenges that may predispose such a breakdown from happening and whatnot.  It's a discussion, but framing it as "give them an inch they'll take a mile" is pretty problematic since we haven't even really established the metrics for what the "disparity" is.  If women are given an inch when they're a mile away, they should still be asking for a mile because the inch is just one step on the journey then, not the destination.

 

 

 

I am pretty sure they are tracking it. I think I remember one dev (Ryan Treadwell, maybe?) mentioning that specifically in regard to the female PCs and the randomizing effect.

 

There's a 50/50 chance for each gender when you pick new game.

[Ryzaki]

There's a 50/50 chance for each gender when you pick new game.

 

That's awesome

 

Maybe I'll let RNG decide whether I should play male or female after my first playthrough XD

[Lady Luminous]

It's important to consider the context of the post that kind of started this derailment, which was basically omitting hundreds of pages of discussion with an explanation for why it shouldn't be done.

 

I see the distribution as being pretty even because I see it in its entirety.  Some feel that it'd be better if the distribution existed between demos and trailers because of the audiences that exist within them.  It's okay for us to disagree in this regard, and it's merely a talking point.

It's not "give them an inch and take a mile," it's discourse.  Sometimes we make attempts and they don't work out as well, and while effort is typically appreciated, effort in the wrong way isn't as productive.  Someone has a hypothesis that the effort could be used in a better way and they feel that the breakdown of trailer and demo is important, and they rationalized it via the hypothesis that the trailer is seen by more people that aren't already fans, while demos are consumed by fans who presumably already know male/female options exist.  It's a logical conclusion... I don't know if it's true.  I don't know if it is false either though.  It's just talking, really.

 

That said, I don't have the data, and I don't think people here do.  I think that the demos are undersold a bit, but it's okay for us to disagree and talk.  It's okay for fans to not have a perfect understanding of logistical challenges that may predispose such a breakdown from happening and whatnot.  It's a discussion, but framing it as "give them an inch they'll take a mile" is pretty problematic since we haven't even really established the metrics for what the "disparity" is.  If women are given an inch when they're a mile away, they should still be asking for a mile because the inch is just one step on the journey then, not the destination.

 

 

There's a 50/50 chance for each gender when you pick new game.

 

I love it when you post, Allan. Not only is it lovely to see BioWare employees joining the discussion, but you're always such a calming influence and the voice of reason.

[Grieving Natashina]

I wanted to toss this out there:

 

I've been playing video games since I was three years old, starting with Atari.  I have the pictures to back it up.  I've played games my whole life, from NES to the awesome gaming computer I have today.  I think after 32 years of playing video games I have earned a right to ask for a trailer from a game that has a female character.  I know in my heart that some of the detractors that are really opposed to this very notion haven't even been alive that long.

 

My younger brother is an avid gamer the same as I am.  His little girl is just over a year old now.  I know that my niece is going to grow up playing video games. I don't want my niece to grow up feeling like she's mostly destined to be portrayed as as sex object or a story reward for her gender in games.  I don't want her to feel like she's going to be ignored and dismissed and considered an afterthought.  These kinds of changes do take a lot of time, but I know it can happen with support.

 

I think change can start in the most unexpected ways.  If one company like BioWare is willing to take the risk, so will others.  Hopefully by the time my niece hits my age she'll be thinking about our current attitude in gaming in a past tense.