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[Bugsie]

Prior to playing Mass Effect I only played shooters and action games with male protagonists or yet another round of Starcraft (a long obsession) if it wasn't for my partner shoving Oblivion and Mass Effect under my nose and saying "I think you'll like these games" I would never have known from marketing alone that I could play as a female protagonist.

There's marketing to a captive audience (us and people outside of the forums who follow Bioware games) then there's marketing to those who have never played Bioware games/RPGs. Gameplay vids really play to those in the first group, trailers are meant (I presume) there to capture new players who are part of the second group. Before playing ME there really was nothing in the marketing in game that caught my eye.

[JadePrince]

 If women are given an inch when they're a mile away, they should still be asking for a mile because the inch is just one step on the journey then, not the destination.

 

 

Thank you, Allan. This is the point that, I think, most of the naysayers in discussions like this overlook. Put another way:

 

[akabane_k]

so, trailers should have female inquisitor so that females know they can play a female character. Fair enough.

Now, how will new male fans know they can play a male character?

 

Usually trailers want to keep the main character's look constant to get a sense of continuity and recognition. If people spend half the trailer wondering if the person onscreen is the main character or just some npc, it doesn't go well.

 

Perhaps there isn't a "fair" solution. But don't act like your solution is better than the status quo when it has the same problems.

 

 

And how is there a barrier to participation? Its a single player game. You buy, download, install it, and play.

[Bugsie]

You have multiple trailers... Mmm just like... Bioware have done - how many trailers have we had? Several from my recollection...

I thought that fact was pretty simple to grasp, it's not mutually exclusive you know.

[akabane_k]

You have multiple trailers... Mmm just like... Bioware have done - how many trailers have we had? Several from my recollection...

I thought that fact was pretty simple to grasp, it's not mutually exclusive you know.

did you not read what I just said? Completely changing the main character partway through a marketing campaign is bad idea and never done.

[GodBrandon]

Pretty sure they made a trailer with the female inquiz already. I feel like Bioware caters towards females as much as any other developer. Just saying

[Lady Luminous]

so, trailers should have female inquisitor so that females know they can play a female character. Fair enough.

Now, how will new male fans know they can play a male character?

 

Usually trailers want to keep the main character's look constant to get a sense of continuity and recognition. If people spend half the trailer wondering if the person onscreen is the main character or just some npc, it doesn't go well.

 

Perhaps there isn't a "fair" solution. But don't act like your solution is better than the status quo when it has the same problems.

 

 

And how is there a barrier to participation? Its a single player game. You buy, download, install it, and play.

 

Do trailers never have announcements or voice-overs?

 

How hard is it at the beginning of the trailer say "You choose your character, male or female" and then show shots of each protagonist in various areas?

[Allan Schumacher]

did you not read what I just said? Completely changing the main character partway through a marketing campaign is bad idea and never done.

 

The thing about our main character is that one of the things about it is they are very diverse in their appearance.

 

We've gone with a more iconic look with the armor/helmet, which is still recognizable but allows us to be more gender ambiguous (such as our cover) yet still being recognizable in a lot of imagery for the game.

[Allan Schumacher]

I edited the OP to say the following:

 

MODEDIT: Just an addendum to this post, the conversation has evolved a lot form this point and in large part discusses female protagonists in games in a variety of topics.  If you are just now seeing this thread, it may be most worthwhile to see where the discussion is currently at at the end of the thread.

Thank you.

[Grieving Natashina]

Oh, good call.  Thanks!

[HuldraDancer]

CC trailer showing off the genders and races would be awesome and might knock quite a few birds with the same stone.

[Ryzaki]

CC trailer showing off the genders and races would be awesome and might knock quite a few birds with the same stone.

 

Don't we have a character creation trailer? I could've sworn we had one.

 

I'd just like a trailer with all the inquisitors kicking butt and showing the different decisions and way their treated because of their races mixed that with different genders and I'd be happy.

[HuldraDancer]

Don't we have a character creation trailer? I could've sworn we had one.

 

I'd just like a trailer with all the inquisitors kicking butt and showing the different decisions and way their treated because of their races mixed that with different genders and I'd be happy.

 

Do we? Oh I think I know which one you mean I thought that was a gameplay type of video not a trailer kind. My mistake then.

 

Also agreed though it be hard to do the decisions angle without a lot of spoilers.

[Ryzaki]

Do we? Oh I think I know which one you mean I thought that was a gameplay type of video not a trailer kind. My mistake then.

 

Also agreed though it be hard to do the decisions angle without a lot of spoilers.

 

No no you're right. It is a gameplay video. I meant this one XD

 

 

Yeah I personally am not bothered though...maybe minor decisions? Hm...

[HuldraDancer]

No no you're right. It is a gameplay video. I meant this one XD

 

-snip-

 

Yeah I personally am not bothered though...maybe minor decisions? Hm...

 

Yeah thats the one I was talking about as well

 

Minor ones I could get behind just not huge things first DA game I"m trying to go into blind the last two had the big surprises spoiled for me ahead of time so trying avoid that again

[phantomrachie]

Pretty sure they made a trailer with the female inquiz already. I feel like Bioware caters towards females as much as any other developer. Just saying

 

They've made game play videos with a female Inquisitor but no trailer. BioWare is actually more inclusive towards it's female fans then most other developers. Most other developers don't make many games with female protagonists or that allow you to choose your gender. 

 

Even when gender doesn't matter in the game, like in COD.

 

And I say inclusive rather than cater too because the world 'cater' implies that we are getting special treatment rather than trying to get equal treatment.

 

The inclusion of female protagonists in games is very important for any girls/women who play games because it allows us to see ourselves as a hero.

 

I'd like to share a story if I may.

 

My first console was the Sega Mega Drive, which I loved  and I got it when I was about 8 or 9.

 

I played tons of games on it, all with male protagonists, oh sure they might have been cuddly animals or robots but they were obviously male. 

 

Then one day I picked up Streets of Rage 2, a game were I could choose to play as a male (Axel or Skate) or female character (Blaze)

 

Skate was an annoying teenage character so I didn't play him, I played as Axel and I as Axel rather than Blaze because women are worse then men at fighting.

 

That is what I thought as a child, I always played as Axel cos he is obviously better cos he was a guy, my sister played as Blaze when we played two player & I viewed it like she was playing the worse character (like when you make your little sister play as Tails in Sonic 2) 

 

I never even tried out Blaze to see if it were true, I simply knew it to be true based on all the other videos games I'd played. 

 

Women were always being rescued, women were never the player character, women were never the hero and I was player 1, so I was going to play Axel not the obviously terrible Blaze.

 

Years later I went back to Streets of Rage, after being pretty much cleansed of this opinion by reading more on the topic (thank you internet), and I played as Blaze, only to discover that she has the best kick in the game and I love to use the jump kick in the Streets of Rage series.

 

People might say 'oh it's just a game' but imagine if I had carried on with this opinion into adulthood. Would I think that female police officers or fire fighters are worse then male ones? Would I still think that women can't be heroes?

[Sully13]

always been my view. there are a ton of female characters out there. (Look up that song.)

but its not just women who play as women. (i think statisticaly its black guys who play it more.)

but most "Studys" tend to be a bit biased on the subject.

Look at COD when they added females no male player batted an eyelid infact most i know saw it as a cool extra that would get more people in to COD. 

the SJWs saw it as a how to kill women training manul.

[Bugsie]

I edited the OP to say the following:

Thanks Allen, 

 

At this stage I feel I should get a t-shirt made saying 'I survived the lady Inquisitor thread - been there, done answering the BS'  

 

 

Pretty sure they made a trailer with the female inquiz already. I feel like Bioware caters towards females as much as any other developer. Just saying

I really need to go back and have a look, one maybe?  

 

But eh, I haven't paid too much attention to the numbers to say yay or nay.

 

At this point I just want to get the game and start playing.  I don't need to be spoilered any more than I am currently and as for trailers, at this late stage - just icing for me (although I was keen to see more dwarves and elves and nothing wrong with others wanting to see more).

 

[Stelae]

I have no idea! Tell my wife how great it is...grumble grumble...

Orion is the only constellation visible from both the Northern and Southern hemispheres.  Or so I was told by a dear friend who named her son Orion.  They were from California, but were living in New Zealand, and chose the name to symbolise the things which did not change no matter where they were.

[GodBrandon]

Here's the female inquiz trailer guys. Enjoy.

 

http://youtu.be/Eh77...ON_6F29taDKEuSQ

 

They've made game play videos with a female Inquisitor but no trailer. BioWare is actually more inclusive towards it's female fans then most other developers. Most other developers don't make many games with female protagonists or that allow you to choose your gender. 

 

Even when gender doesn't matter in the game, like in COD.

 

And I say inclusive rather than cater too because the world 'cater' implies that we are getting special treatment rather than trying to get equal treatment.

 

The inclusion of female protagonists in games is very important for any girls/women who play games because it allows us to see ourselves as a hero.

 

I'd like to share a story if I may.

 

My first console was the Sega Mega Drive, which I loved  and I got it when I was about 8 or 9.

 

I played tons of games on it, all with male protagonists, oh sure they might have been cuddly animals or robots but they were obviously male. 

 

Then one day I picked up Streets of Rage 2, a game were I could choose to play as a male (Axel or Skate) or female character (Blaze)

 

Skate was an annoying teenage character so I didn't play him, I played as Axel and I as Axel rather than Blaze because women are worse then men at fighting.

 

That is what I thought as a child, I always played as Axel cos he is obviously better cos he was a guy, my sister played as Blaze when we played two player & I viewed it like she was playing the worse character (like when you make your little sister play as Tails in Sonic 2) 

 

I never even tried out Blaze to see if it were true, I simply knew it to be true based on all the other videos games I'd played. 

 

Women were always being rescued, women were never the player character, women were never the hero and I was player 1, so I was going to play Axel not the obviously terrible Blaze.

 

Years later I went back to Streets of Rage, after being pretty much cleansed of this opinion by reading more on the topic (thank you internet), and I played as Blaze, only to discover that she has the best kick in the game and I love to use the jump kick in the Streets of Rage series.

 

People might say 'oh it's just a game' but imagine if I had carried on with this opinion into adulthood. Would I think that female police officers or fire fighters are worse then male ones? Would I still think that women can't be heroes?

[phantomrachie]

Here's the female inquiz trailer guys. Enjoy.

 

http://youtu.be/Eh77...ON_6F29taDKEuSQ

 

I never really counted this trailer because if you didn't know that Alix was the VA for the femquisitor then you wouldn't get that there was a female Inquisitor from it.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Pretty sure they made a trailer with the female inquiz already. I feel like Bioware caters towards females as much as any other developer. Just saying

There's been a grand total of 1 female inquisitor trailer, it was also a trailer that was actually centered around the companions & where she only appeared for about 10 seconds at the very end while the male has had around 5 or 6 trailers that had lots of shots & close-ups of him, is not exactly fair when the female inquisitors only trailer is 1 where she hardly appears at all.

[Grieving Natashina]

I never really counted this trailer because if you didn't know that Alix was the VA for the femquisitor then you wouldn't get that there was a female Inquisitor from it.

Same.  I watched it when it first came out, and I was surprised that it was the female Inquisitor trailer.  I couldn't tell until the end with the quick glimpse of her in armor and even then I wasn't sure until I hit this thread that same day.  

 

I didn't recognize Alix's voice at the time.  I had only played the ME games once.  I've played it a couple of times since then, so I can recognize her now.  No, that trailer didn't count.

 

I don't think it's just me.  The entire detraction argument is utterly weird.  We're not asking for only the female Inquisitor to be shown.  We do not want the male Inquisitor completely disregarded or ignored.  That would not only be sexist, but stupid.   Excluding men entirely, or even treating them like a minority, is sexist.  I'll be the first to say it.  

 

That is not the point of this thread and I keep wondering where in blazes that impression is stemming from.

 

Equality would be nice, and it's something we're going to strive for.

 

Barring even that, we're asking for one stinking trailer that actually shows the female Inquisitor on screen for the same amount of time as the male one.  One that we can at least occasionally see on a banner ad or on TV instead of a guy.  No one here in this has ever said in seriousness, since March, "Stop all marketing for men!"  Or even "Men should be treated like a minority."  

 

Not once.  

 

Is that truly such a threat?  Is that such an issue that some players have to come in here once every couple of months to try to shut us up?  Don't they have better things to do then to tell women "Shut up and quit asking for representation?"  

 

All this despite posts from the developers telling us to continue our feedback and that they encourage it from us.

[GodBrandon]

There's been a grand total of 1 female inquisitor trailer, it was also a trailer that was actually centered around the companions & where she only appeared for about 10 seconds at the very end while the male has had around 5 or 6 trailers that had lots of shots & close-ups of him, is not exactly fair when the female inquisitors only trailer is 1 where she hardly appears at all.

at least the female appears in something. It's still progress

[Grieving Natashina]

It's within our rights as consumers to ask for more than that.  Would you honestly be satisfied if the shoe was on the other foot right now?  Would you be happy if the only trailer that the general public (read: those not following every twitch stream and the like) with the male Inquisitor to date was like the one the female Inquisitor received?  Then were told to be grateful for it by posters like yourself and stop asking for anything else?  Try to imagine this, if you can.  

 

I would not want this to happen with the male Inquisitor at all.  I also don't want it happening with female Inquisitor, so I'm going to continue offering calm and constructive feedback to BioWare.   As well the many many others that post and lurk here.

 

If you think we're asking too much, that's your call.  However, I'm politely asking you to leave the thread if that is the case.  We aren't going to be swayed by you, BioWare is obviously receptive to us, and it seems like your mind is made up in return.