9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Grieving Natashina]

I never said I MINDED it was off topic. You asked me why I posted when I don't care about trailers and I told you why. Because people weren't talking about trailers, nor was I. How is that so confusing.

We weren't?? Did you miss the last few pages prior to last night where we were talking about the weapon and look that we'd like to see in the ads?  Or earlier today, when we were talking about it.   

 

I do care about dismissive and incorrect statements about being "off-topic for over 300+ pages." 

 

Look, I'm not trying to disrespect you.  If you don't care about this subject, that's fine.  I don't mind if this isn't something you care about one way or the other.  I'm not asking you to care.  I am asking you to treat the other posters in this thread with some respect.

 

It's pretty rude to dismiss 6 months of posting by other people that have largely been on topic.

 

 

 

 

About all other ideas here like more trailers with black male/female and etc... It is exagerrated. You cannot have all options for everyone on the earth. If devs films trailers with every race it will be too much trailers and too few games. I think it is theirs decision, as look of characters in many games.

Question:
 

How is asking for one female PC trailer that isn't a white person and maybe one male PC trailer that also isn't white asking for options for "everyone on the earth?"  Especially in a game where the player can play as someone that isn't white as well as play a woman?

 

We aren't demanding this from the marketing team, either EA's or BioWare's.  We're requesting and mentioning what we'd like to see.  We know that some our requests are unlikely.  That isn't going to stop us from giving our feedback and ideas.  Nor should it.  Particularly in the Feedback section of the forums.

[DeN DarK]

 

How is asking for one female PC trailer that isn't a white person and maybe one male PC trailer that also white asking for options for everyone on the earth?  Especially in a game where the player can play as someone that isn't white?

 

 

Calm down. I give me opinion about this you if you read carefully and don't try to make hot discussion out of thin air.

I think choice of race/gender is very important. I prefer play for white male couse i'm white male. And as Inquisitor in trailers look... I prefer trailer with female in any way maybe she will be pictured better )

 

As about your qusetion: 

 

Also, Smiles, I had mentioned earlier that for the male Inquisitor, I was sick of seeing white men.  For the reasons I mentioned in regards to the female Inquisitor, I'd like to see that for the male.  Someone not white for the guys as well would be very welcomed by me.

 

 A black or Latino male PC in a video game trailer that isn't a thug or otherwise has a history of criminal violence would be not only be great to see, but I think it's far past time that BioWare did it for a trailer for one of their games.   

[Tayah]

Actually, wasn't Psylocke the only girl? At least at first. And I remember she sucked too, and it was a reeeally hard game, so I didn't actually pick her often. Nightcrawler was the baus

Yeah pretty much but funnily enough I liked playing as her and mainly picked her so I didn't think she sucked, quite the opposite actually, as a team Psylocke and I were pretty deadly!

 

As a thought experiment, has there been games that only have women that have customization?

I can't think of any... all the female protagonist games I've played had a set character look, Lara Croft being the one that jumps to mind first. To be fair I haven't found a lot of female only games that appeal to me on PC, these days I mainly play rpgs that offer both male or female protags or strategies where gender matters little if at all. 

 

Also, Smiles, I had mentioned earlier that for the male Inquisitor, I was sick of seeing white men.  For the reasons I mentioned in regards to the female Inquisitor, I'd like to see that for the male.  Someone not white for the guys as well would be very welcomed by me.

 

 A black or Latino male PC in a video game trailer that isn't a thug or otherwise has a history of criminal violence would be not only be great to see, but I think it's far past time that BioWare did it for a trailer for one of their games.  

Or Asian for that matter (even if there isn't a human Asian culture in game you can still create Asian looking characters)... or really just not white.   Yeah I'm not bored of seeing the same basic character all the time too... really. 

 

I think ads with female main character must give a better sales. Even if I prefer to be male character, anyway it was very nice to see ads with female shepard or hawke. Actually in DA2 it was much more comfortable for me to play like female Hawke. 

 

About all other ideas here like more trailers with black male/female and etc... It is exagerrated. You cannot have all options for everyone on the earth. If devs films trailers with every race it will be too much trailers and too few games. I think it is theirs decision, as look of characters in many games.

Actually if they'd done each of their trailers and vids so far with the same helmet but on the head of male and female inquisitors of different colours or even shown a little more variety in skintone in their gameplay vids that would be nice too and not detract from the iconic inquisitor because using different looks under the inquisitor's helmet really is saying play your inquisitor your way.  

 

I agree with your first point by the way I just think there's room to make the second part work too and represent others who usually miss out also.  

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Calm down. I give me opinion about this you if you read carefully and don't try to make hot discussion out of thin air.

I think choice of race/gender is very important. I prefer play for white male couse i'm white male. And as Inquisitor in trailers look... I prefer trailer with female in any way maybe she will be pictured better )

 

As about your question: 

 

I mostly agree with your first point of your post about a female PC.  

 

I was quoting your second point, about minority representation for the female and male PC.  That's the issue I was addressing.

 

I said I'd like to see a non-white man as the male Inquisitor in a trailer as well.   You know, a "nice to see thing." Which isn't unrealistic or totally implausible.  Once again, that isn't asking for representation of everyone on earth. 

 

What was your point there?   Why shouldn't I request that a trailer has actually have a non-white lady in it?  Or one for the men that has a non-white person, for that matter?  I don't see why I shouldn't ask.  

 

Since this is a thread for the lady Inquisitor, that's been my primary focus.  I made a single post stating that having a non-white male Inquisitor would be welcome to see as well.   Oh and I made a couple of comments at the end of one of my large posts from earlier about the same thing.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

 

We weren't?? Did you miss the last few pages prior to last night where we were talking about the weapon and look that we'd like to see in the ads?  Or earlier today, when we were talking about it.   

 

I do care about dismissive and incorrect statements about being "off-topic for over 300+ pages." 

 

Look, I'm not trying to disrespect you.  If you don't care about this subject, that's fine.  I don't mind if this isn't something you care about one way or the other.  I'm not asking you to care.  I am asking you to treat the other posters in this thread with some respect.

 

It's pretty rude to dismiss 6 months of posting by other people that have largely been on topic.

 

What??

 

I'm going to disengage from this line of conversation because I never wanted to take part in it the first place beyond answering your questioning.

 

About all other ideas here like more trailers with black male/female and etc... It is exagerrated. You cannot have all options for everyone on the earth. If devs films trailers with every race it will be too much trailers and too few games. I think it is theirs decision, as look of characters in many games.

Yeah. Forcing it to happen seems a bit unnatural. You're going to need to have a rotating roster for each game to feature a different ethnicity. And in Dragon Age especially it's natural to expect a white protagonist. What I would like to see is perhaps a more diverse workforce and for it to naturally affect better representation. I'm not sure if it's realistic, or if the executives will end up whitewashing it anyway, but I feel it's the best way for it to happen without forcing it artificially. That or have games set in places where the protagonist is naturally not a straight white male. Like Sleeping Dogs, and the upcoming Far Cry I think?

 

Yeah pretty much but funnily enough I liked playing as her and mainly picked her so I didn't think she sucked, quite the opposite actually, as a team Psylocke and I were pretty deadly!

It was such a blast on two player. Did you ever end up finishing it?

[Tayah]

It was such a blast on two player. Did you ever end up finishing it?

Yep, I was so proud too cause I'd worked pretty hard solo to get to that point. (My brother had bowed out ages before).

[DeN DarK]

I mostly agree with your first point of your post about a female PC.  

 

It is so nice then you agree with something i said. )

 

What was your point there?   Why shouldn't I request that a trailer has actually have a non-white lady in it?  Or one for the men that has a non-white person, for that matter?  I don't see why I shouldn't ask.  

 

Since this is a thread for the lady Inquisitor, that's been my primary focus.  I made a single post stating that having a non-white male Inquisitor would be welcome to see as well.   Oh and I made a couple of comments at the end of one of my large posts from earlier about the same thing.

 

And I don't see why i shouldn't disagree and point that you can't make all people happy. It is called different opinion.

Some games don't give options anyway and it is ok. Gamedev is art, not law or official company statement about equality. 

[MissOuJ]

Yeah. Forcing it to happen seems a bit unnatural. You're going to need to have a rotating roster for each game to feature a different ethnicity. And in Dragon Age especially it's natural to expect a white protagonist.

 

Okay, I don't wanna jump you, but how is asking for something in the Feedback forum of a gaming website "forcing" anything? The whole point of this thead is literally "hey, could we maybe get some fem!Quisitor marketing material? It seems all of your marketing material is (once again) pretty male-centric". Like, don't use the Inquisitor at all / only use an androgynous outline of the PC in the official trailers and focus on the followers and creatures. One of the things that really bother me about the DAII trailer in particular (in addition to Isabela's whitewashing) is that that's not my Hawke, and never will be. I have similar problems with the DA:O Sacred Ashes trailer (not so much with the Warden's Calling trailer) because, nope nope nope, not my Warden.

 

So, either highlight the fact that you have character customisation and that you can play as different races/genders, or just don't make one Inquisitor (who seems to just "happend to be" a white male yet again) the poster child of the game. For example: The official trailer has the line "every great war has its heroes, I'm just curious what kind you'll be", which IMO is a great tagline for a game about choices and character customisation. Although the line is probably a quote from the game, in the trailer it is kinda heavily leaning on the fourth wall and asking the (potential) player what they're going to do in this world and what kind of decisions they're going to make - they did something similar with the Fires Above trailer too when Morrigan basically asks the players if they're going to save Thedas or doom it. So this would be a great time to either 1) leave the Inquisitor kinda in the shadows to raise the intrigue, or 2) leave the Inquisitor out altogether, so that the trailer is sort of inviting the player to become the Inquisitor. But no: here we are again, with the default White Dude at the centre. Opportunity: missed.

 

(Just to note here: I love the official teaser because they did this exact thing right in it IMO. They show the Breach and some of your potential party members and go "The threat will unite them. You will lead them" - which I have to mention is just a plain awesome tagline - and practically invite you to lead them, i.e. to become the Inquisitor. No "default" Inquisitor needed.)

 

Also, I don't get why it would be "natural" to expect a white protagonist in the DA universe. Granted, there have been way too few PoC characters in the earlier games, but literally the first person you see in the DA:O after the explanatory tapestry/fresco is Duncan, who is not white.

[veeia]

Asking for them to consider something is not forcing them to do anything. I feel that we should subtitle this forum that at this point, or have it automatically be at the top of every thread, because it seems people often come derailing good convos with that when it isn't even relevant or applicable.

[Sylvianus]

While it has nothing to do with Bioware, I just wanted to point out something about Call of duty. I have finished the single player, and there is a female character, a soldier in the team. She is effective, serious, badass, and totally looks like a soldier, ( face, clothes, movements ), not at all sexualized, doesn't look like a model, and it made me very happy, for the future . There is as well the possibility to play female soldiers in the multi-player, even choose between several options. A big step for this franchise which is yet known as the home of the dudebros, according to what I read on this forum. ( while for sure there are also many female players who play and played the games for years as well ) I'm pretty sure that now, many female gamers who like Fps and call of duty, being able to choose their gender, can relatively feel at home now, 

 

Useless to say, that I obviously chose a female soldier as my character to play the multiplayer and kick the ass of many folks, since I'm tired of male soldiers that I played in all the episodes already. 

 

Now, I'm waiting for something else than the white dude ( brunette ) hero for the story. But yeah, I don't expect much there, not before a long time lol.

 

As for the marketting. I don't get why the f*ck so many male players care about it while they aren't concerned at all, coming into this thread to tell that they are opposed to see more of the female PC because x reasons. Marketting is Bioware's business, not yours, it's their job to deal with it, not yours. So how it could affect you that some people ask politely if they could see more of the female inquisitor ? ( the male inquisitor has been already heavily marketted and is seen in all the trailers unlike the female inquisitor ) . If devs are willing to listen, more power to them, if they are reticent, people are still allowed to talk about it and give their feedback. Unless it bothers you to see the female inquisitor as well. Just wait and enjoy the game  and leave the matter of marketting to those who care about it for legetimate reasons and Bioware for the love of god, lol. 

 

Sorry, it's just that I don't understand why people come to tell that the marketting shouldn't do x or y while it doesn't concern and affect them at all. If there are consequences for Bioware, positive or not, ( though I do believe it can only be positive, because more marketting toward women  = more women = more customers, more fans ) let them do whatever the hell they want. I don't know, given that my gender is already heavily supported, I don't see why we couldn't also see more of the female pc too, why I should be opposed to that. ( though I don't believe in things exactly even for the marketting, it's not realistic to expect that ) 

 

edit : Not sure if my post makes sense, but I must leave quickly. I'm already late. T__T

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I was agreeing with someone else's post, I wasn't referring to a female inquisitor, and I never said anyone here was putting a gun to anyone's head. I'm talking about a hypothetical situation where it's mandated that the marketing features a protagonist of a different ethnicity each new game.

 

How else would they even decide what ethnicity to pick otherwise? (apart from what naturally comes to mind and was initially decided on, which is what I was touching on) Should it really be African American? They do already have the second highest amount of representation. Should they go with the ethnicity that's least/never seen? Or is that unwise since there's a lower population of that ethnicity in the USA? Should it even be based on USA's populations? Should it be Canada's populations? Global? Target Market?

 

Duncan, who is not white.

Duncan's white.

[Bugsie]

From the wiki:

Duncan is Rivaini in appearance, his father, Arryn, from Ferelden and his mother, Tayana, from Rivain.

So no, not 'white'.

[Sully13]

Kinda the DA equivelent of Turkish.. like Santa... yep Santa is Turkish.

[RevilFox]

 

 

Duncan's white.

Duncan is as white as Isabella. Which is to say they both appeared much lighter than intended in DAO. Isabella's skin color in DA2 is what it was supposed to look like.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Or Southern Italian or something, and Turks are widely considered white anyway. It's all very ambiguous with fictional nations and tan-but-mostly white looking people. Add to that he's only half. (Is Obama white then?) There was a lulzy thread recently about why Vivienne looks like someone from the Sahara and such a major departure from Izzy and Ducky. So I guess you can say it's subjective, but I'm going to continue considering him white

[phantomrachie]

 

As a thought experiment, has there been games that only have women that have customization?

 

I've been thinking about this for about an hour, staring at my games collection, searching wikipedia and I can't think of one of find one.

 

Which makes me more than a bit sad. 

[MissOuJ]

Or Southern Italian or something, and Turks are widely considered white anyway. It's all very ambiguous with fictional nations and tan-but-mostly white looking people. Add to that he's only half. (Is Obama white then?) There was a lulzy thread recently about why Vivienne looks like someone from the Sahara and such a major departure from Izzy and Ducky. So I guess you can say it's subjective, but I'm going to continue considering him white

 

Duncan is a fictional character, so his racial identity is probably subjective to some degree, but could we agree that since he has about the darkest skintone you can actually have in Origins (because the engine didn't do dark skintines well) and that he's from a country whose inhabitants generally have dark(er) skintones, if is safe to assume he's not meant to be 100% caucasian?

 

Also, I can say that at least where I'm from, Turkish people are generally not considered white. Granted, I'm from a country where people are considered "white" (or, ugh, "Finnish") only if they practically glow in the dark.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I dunno, race is such a convoluted thing/social concept, you probably have to consult white supremacists for expert classification. But Duncan is sufficiently white enough, even if you darken him to DA2 Isabella levels, that I simply did not notice him as different, and therefore did not seem out of place in a European setting as say, a Chinese-looking Duncan would.

 

It doesn't matter anyway since none of our playable characters are from Rivia.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

I think ads with female main character must give a better sales. Even if I prefer to be male character, anyway it was very nice to see ads with female shepard or hawke. Actually in DA2 it was much more comfortable for me to play like female Hawke.

Is quite sad that inquisition has advertised female Hawke more then DA2 actually did, i only remember her getting a single screenshot compared to all the videos, trailers & screenshots male Hawke received, was like she didn't exist

[WildOrchid]

Is quite sad that inquisition has advertised female Hawke more then DA2 actually did, i only remember her getting a single screenshot compared to all the videos, trailers & screenshots male Hawke received, was like she didn't exist

 

Yeah, sad really.

[thehomeworld]

While it has nothing to do with Bioware, I just wanted to point out something about Call of duty. I have finished the single player, and there is a female protagonist, a soldier in the team. She is effective, serious, badass, and totally looks like a soldier, ( face, clothes, movements ), not at all sexualized, doesn't look like a model, and it made me very happy, for the future . There is as well the possibility to play female soldiers in the multi-player, even choose between several options. A big step for this franchise who is yet known as the home of the dudebros, according to what I read on this foorum. ( while for sure there are also many female players who play and played the games for years as well ) I'm pretty sure that now, many female gamers who like Fps and call of duty, being able to choose their gender, can relatively feel at home now, 

 

Useless to say, that I obviously chose a female soldier as my character to play the multiplayer and kick the ass of many folks, since I'm tired of male soldiers that I played in all the episodes already. 

 

Now, I'm waiting for something else than the white dude ( brunette ) hero for the story. But yeah, I don't expect much there, not before a long time lol.

 

As for the marketting. I don't get why the f*ck so many male players care about it while they aren't concerned at all, coming into this thread to tell that they are opposed to see more of the female PC because x reasons. Marketting is Bioware's business, not yours, it's their job to deal with it, not yours. So how it could affect you that some people ask politely if they could see more of the female inquisitor ? ( the male inquisitor has been already heavily marketted and is seen in all the trailers unlike the female inquisitor ) . If devs are willing to listen, more power to them, if they are reticent, people are still allowed  to talk about it and give their feedback. Unless it bothers you to see the female inquisitor as well. Just wait and enjoy the game  and leave the matter of marketting to those who care about it for legetimate reasons and Bioware for the love of god, lol. 

 

Sorry, it's just that i don't understand why people come to tell that the marketting shouldn't do x or y while it doesn't concern and affect them at all. If there are consequences for Bioware, positive or not, ( though I do believe it can only be positive, because more marketting toward women  = more women = more customers, more fans ) let them do whatever the hell they want. I don't know, given that my gender is already heavily supported, I don't see why we couldn't also see more of the female pc too, why I should be opposed to that. ( though I don't believe in things exactly even for the marketting, it's not realistic to expect that ) 

 

edit : Not sure if my post makes sense, but I must leave quickly. I'm already late. T__T

 

Your confusing protagonist and npc again, you can't play as a woman in the SP only the MP she's not a protag she's an npc for SP and in MP no one male or female is the hero of the SP its just your choice of solider for each battle so not a protag in the sense of the word when the majority say protag= game hero in MP it doesn't matter who you are.

 

It is good however you brought up COD I just found marketing material for COD2 that discussed about how they should target their fem players more, the value of doing so, and how if they just aimed to target them only more to increase their fem player base by only 10% they projected several million dollar revenue boost. They discussed talk about in this material making a limited edition only version that would've allowed you to play as a woman for SP and MP but we can see somewhere along the line the whole thing got axed the only thing that remained of that proposal was the basic stratigy of showing fem soldiers in the ads and saying something about awakening your female soilder side but the game then showed nothing but male hero all the way I do recall people complaining about the mixed message they showed fem soilders giving the impression the SP campeign would have them to choose as then revoked it (look wise) because the actual game was male soilders only.

 

Onto the more or less main discussion of this page there is actually science that goes into CG trailer vs gameplay its not a high volume amount of studies like there is on other gaming related items (yeah you can actually study games) its been found some gamers do actually prefer to only see the CG trailers either because they love their graphics, the movieesque quality, some like the story being told in the trailer even though they know it has next to nothing to do with the actual game content, and other don't have time or the desire to seek out anything else. So yeah us saying make a fem trailer that doesn't have the player/would be player guessing is that a woman because you blink and she's gone show her and make it clear she's not the LI or eye candy NPC this is your actual hero isn't breaking the bank when its planned for. Now I doubt highly BW will release a trailer like many are asking for the one they have on the books that is her trailer that she barely even shows up for is all they've got and probably will keep for months after the game's release is it but BW needs to be made aware now that next game (whatever it is) if they have a fem hero option they need to whole bundle not half or portions she needs to be advertised in prime locations on TV, in stores, magazines, twitter, FB, sidebar ads, inside emailed and physical promo material, her commercials and content need to be shown at prime times like the male already is a true 50/50 split not a 40/60 split BW has taken a huge step compared to what they put out for Fshep but they need to keep going if they don't they'll send the message to the industry at large this was a phase/fad and game devs and publishers don't want fem gamers to buy their products. BW keeps going one step further game after game it will be normalized and then the industry as a whole will fallow their example and games can be made more fun because women who want to be woman in SP and MP can do so and men who love that option can feel excepted with having that option.

[Pasquale1234]

I almost want to do something like an Intro to the Inquisitor. "Choose your inquisitor!" And then flash through the 8 options (like they have on the dragon age site) maybe show a bit of the CC "Customize Your Character!", and then go on to do the planned trailer.

That sounds very much like something I advocated awhile back. A set of quick dissolves showing a variety of inquisitors of both genders, all races, and a rainbow of factial features / skintones. It would take maybe 15-20 seconds to show a wide variety.

One of the problems with game trailers is that they have become a lot like movie trailers in that they try to get the viewer engaged in the world and story. A viewer not already familiar with the franchise, who doesn't know the other characters, isn't going to know which of the characters in the trailer is the PC.
 

For me though, this goes beyond just women not being advertised to. I'm so sick of the White Guy with Stubble look it's no longer amusing. There is several games I have passed up due to that look. They may have been great games, but as a consumer, I'm done seeing that over..and over...and sodding over again.

It's an odd sort of conundrum. Publishers seem to think that anything other than white stubbly guy is highly risky - but featuring yet another white stubbly guy does nothing to differentiate your offering from the rest of the pack. Personally, I've become pretty impervious to them. If you want to get my attention and court my wallet, show me something different.
 

And I don't see why i shouldn't disagree and point that you can't make all people happy. It is called different opinion.
Some games don't give options anyway and it is ok. Gamedev is art, not law or official company statement about equality.

Every bit of the "art" put forth serves to create an image of your product in the consumer's mind. The "art" used in marketing materials is specifically designed and intended to attract potential customers to purchase your product. It's pretty foolish to walk away from potential sales because you refuse to make an occasional small concession to expand your marketing demographics.

[Nefla]

Yeah. Forcing it to happen seems a bit unnatural. You're going to need to have a rotating roster for each game to feature a different ethnicity. And in Dragon Age especially it's natural to expect a white protagonist. What I would like to see is perhaps a more diverse workforce and for it to naturally affect better representation. I'm not sure if it's realistic, or if the executives will end up whitewashing it anyway, but I feel it's the best way for it to happen without forcing it artificially. That or have games set in places where the protagonist is naturally not a straight white male. Like Sleeping Dogs, and the upcoming Far Cry I think?

I think what's unnatural is game companies strictly adhering to the cookie cutter mold of "athletic but not body builder straight white guy with short dark hair and stubble or a short beard." I feel like they restrict themselves to focus test guy out of fear that the dudebros out there wont buy any other kind of protagonist. Even if you want to argue that Thedas is a historically accurate medieval European society (lmao) medieval Europe did have immigrants from other places living there.  

[Lady Luminous]

Is quite sad that inquisition has advertised female Hawke more then DA2 actually did, i only remember her getting a single screenshot compared to all the videos, trailers & screenshots male Hawke received, was like she didn't exist

 

The only reason I even knew DA2 could play as a female and was customizable was because I went on a date with a guy who worked at BioWare (sadly he was a stage 5 clinger and it didn't work out) and we got to talking about DA2.

 

Until that point I was sure that I could only play as a set male character.

[llawsford]

 

Dude Inquisitor again. Meh.