9318 réponses à ce sujet

[ajiehb]

I call her inquisitrix because it sounds far better and like Elite said, it's the female version of -tor. I don't see anything lesser about it.

Inquisitrix is similar to Dominatrix ^^ :b

[WildOrchid]

Inquisitrix is similar to Dominatrix ^^ :b

 

And? Dominatrix is the female version of Dominator.

[ajiehb]

And? Dominatrix is the female version of Dominator.

Nah, it's just very kinky I didn't think about dominator. But it's because I'm bad boy he he ))

[ajiehb]

"I started to play BioWare games in 2009. I've been playing games since 93/94 and before 2009 I played 7 games with a female protagonist."

 

Well, there are a lot more but you didn't happened to play in them. Diablo 1-2, Blood Rayne 1-2 and a lot of RPG and when I mean a lot it's not 1-2. How about Velvet Assassin? Does anyone here know about this game?

[Grieving Natashina]

I keep wondering why folks don't spend more time in the Feedback section posting in threads they like rather than telling folks to "stop harassing the devs."  It baffles me.  Especially since no one is forcing them to click on anything.  It also kills me that the realism nonsense only seems to come out in force in the threads talking about LGBT and female characters.  What are they so afraid of?  

 

I'd say the majority of the people that have posted in the thread over the last 8 months have been nothing but polite and respectful to the devs.  We constantly thank them for their time, their effort and for giving us their feedback in return for ours.

 

Usually, it's the folks that are either speaking against this topic or against the posters that are rude to the developers.  If anything, you're being rude to the developers and to BioWare as whole by not doing a little research.  If you would do so, then you'd find that you were wrong.  You're telling the devs, "I'm ignoring pages of your posts and years of your stated goals so I can tell you to stop listening to these women.  Also, ignore the men that have spoken out in favor for this as well."

 

Attempting to belittle us and "shame" us into stopping is futile. Many of us in here have had to deal with a lot worse than some dismissive comments by the uninformed just by unmuting our mics in MP/MMOs or showing that we enjoy games too.  We want to express seeing something other than just white men for advertising.  Besides, showing very little aside from white men in AAA games (especially in the ads) for the last 15+ years is getting unrealistic. And dull as hell.  

 

You might want to actually read this thread before making such silly, and uniformed statements like this.  It wouldn't take you long to realize that BioWare cares in particular, and are certainly one of the most vocal companies about it.  There is literally pages of posts by developers in this thread, and not just by Allan.  There is months and months worth of tweets that have shown how happy and thankful the devs are that LGBT, women and minority players can speak up.

 

Earlier this year, Manveer Heir spoke at the Game Developer Conference about this topic among other issues.  The GDC is a conference for developers by developers.  They aren't addressing their consumers, they are addressing each other.  He even talked about accidental eraser of both the women and minority demographs.  He also got how the whole "women heroes don't sell well" is a myth perpetuated by the industry.  See, women get 40% amount of the ad budget as male heroes. As a result, no one is actually sure if women heroes sell poorly or not.

 

David Gaider last year also addressed sexism in gaming at the GDC conference in 2013. I could continue to pull up links, but I assume you get the hint by now.  BioWare cares, and cares a lot about their female fans.

 

Most of us in this thread over the months feel that it's our privilege as gamers, our rights as consumers (our money counts too) and our responsibility as lady gamers to try to encourage polite and respectful feedback to both the BioWare developers and to their marketing teams.  We don't constantly harass the devs on twitter, or here nor are we demanding anything.  We are making requests and so far, it's been positive and progressive from BioWare's end.

 

I have provided links and sources that backs up the statements by the thread that BioWare is listening and does care.  You have vague statements, and have bothered to do zero research into the history of this thread.  You also have shown that you have done no research into the history of the values of the company.  

 

So, once again, you've come into a thread just to complain that folks are giving feedback.  On a subject you despise.  Perhaps your time would be better spent threads you enjoy.  Staying in this thread where all you want to do is derail and argue is ill advised.  I'm only judging by your words and your attitude.  It makes you look like a troll.  You should probably find another place to go vent.  

 

Thank you for contributing to the thread.  I'm not being sarcastic either.  You're one of the players that shows why this thread exists.  Why there is videos and panels regarding this from developers and writers.  Why there is pages of developer posts, months of tweets and years of improvement.  It's because the sort of mentality that you're demonstrating needs to change.   Your posts illustrate exactly the problems that have been facing women, minority and LGBT players for years.  As long as you're happy, everything is fine, right?  Well, you're wrong and thankfully, BioWare knows that too.  

[phantomrachie]

"Male Shep is your typical space marine, but Female Shep is something unique, a character we've never gotten to play before, a female space marine, who everyone treats equally to her male counter parts, no one tells femshep she can't do something just because she is a woman, and she never brings up her gender. She is just a kick ass space marine, here to save the day."

 

You understand that it's just because all dialogues are the same for male\fem Shep? Not because BioWare wanted to treats equally or something... there is only one story in Mass Effect and it doesn't matter what gender you choose. Your fem Shep would do the exactly things and be treated the exactly same way. And I was thinking you were fighting for different approach to women in the games. At least I would like to see different situation for my fem hero. I want her to be able to do things that male hero can't. Not just change "he" to "she" in dialogues.

 

Which is my point, I don't want a game to treat me differently for playing a female character, I just want to be able to play as one.

 

"I started to play BioWare games in 2009. I've been playing games since 93/94 and before 2009 I played 7 games with a female protagonist."

 

Well, there are a lot more but you didn't happened to play in them. Diablo 1-2, Blood Rayne 1-2 and a lot of RPG and when I mean a lot it's not 1-2. How about Velvet Assassin? Does anyone here know about this game?

 

Yes there are more games than the ones I played, but I wasn't trying to avoid games with female characters, I was just playing games that I liked and in a 15 year gaming history (94 -2009) over 5 consoles, I only came across 8 games were I could play as a female character.

 

Don't tell me that is not statistically significant, don't tell me that is my fault for not playing on PC or whatever other platform I didn't have or for not playing the right games, that is a gaming culture that didn't want to include female protagonists.

 

This culture is changing and is becoming more equal. I'm proud of that but it still has along way to go.

[thehomeworld]

I don't believe women can't enjoy playing interesting story as male :\ What about games where there isn't option to choose your character gender? For example The Witcher. I know a lot of woman who like this game. I don't think it's a big issue if you can't play your gender. It shouldn't be. If you have issue with this it's a discrimination. Honestly it's better for the story if you play pre-designed character. Because let be honest main story is created for male character and if you choose fem it's only changing dialogues even Mass Effect and DOA games are struggling with this issue. The only one game I know with different approach in questing for fem character is Fallout 2. If you choose to play fem hero you can access to unique choices in quests. In BioWare games it's simple matter of different romances with your companions.

 

they've already have conducted a few studies on players pleasure centers and enjoyment of games when playing as their own and opposite genders the shocker? Women enjoyed the game less as men when playing as male their pleasure centers light up for other aspects like a mission or because a character they enjoy they also commented on they wanted to be a women, women who played women enjoyed the game more overall and more on missions they personally enjoyed. The men overall enjoyed playing as male characters overall repeatedly saying they can relate better to him but there were some men who enjoyed the game more as women heros or didn't show a decrease in their enjoyment of the game playing as the woman. But that's not a shocker actually studies show women like playing as women overall same as men like to play as men and the cross over happens and heightens the enjoyment for those players so when you choose your gender its a win/win but your right women love playing as men...it couldn't have anything to do with they want to be in that world as a player nope they just want to play the dude.

 

With the witcher I have yet to find a woman in my area who plays it muchless will admit to enjoying it. You know Triss's porno shot in the beginning almost made me want to return the game I went, " Oh great what did I just buy? Porn simulator? I thought this was a midievil monster killing game!" honestly I don't enjoy the game for the nude ladies like AC2 I do however enjoy running around and hunting monsters but you know what would be way more engaging to me? If my hero was a witcheress, its not like CD didn't try it originally you were suppose to play the game as a woman elf killing things then they changed it to Geralt they had demos and many other things before they switched my guess they kept her model and made her that elf you shag when you save her. I like the graphics of the towns and hunting down my pray the most I can't just find another game that lets me do that. I like the lore and dealing with the witcher cases but you could and I'm sure CD is ignorant of why I like their game because sex, boobs, and lebomancy isn't it. I find when men ask me do I like or have I played the wither they aren't asking me because they're interested they're asking me because they want validation the game they like that also has the nickname of "that porn game" is something a girl likes, they just want the like part they don't give a toss about the specifics of WHAT I like. I've got several moments where my enjoyment is halved, if not cut down to the bone due to some of the content, scenes, or dialogue  in the game but I have other parts I enjoy of that game however I admit its not one I bring out and play 30+ times like I do ME, DAO, and State of Decay and what all those have in common? Im the woman who gets to play the woman lead in a world she likes without much fuss about me being there.

[SardaukarElite]

How about Velvet Assassin? Does anyone here know about this game?

 

I do. Velvet Assassin: a third person stealth action game from 2009, about Violette Summer - based on real life British SOE agent Violette Szabo who was executed by the Nazis during the Second World War and had a much less English name than 'Summer'.

 

It's the one were because the whole game is Summer hallucinating in hospital you can collect power ups to trigger a special bullet time mode where she runs around in her nightie. Review scores were around 5-6 out of 10. Yeah...

 

----

 

I can name a bunch of female protagonist games, some of them are even good, but they are still the minority, and it doesn't invalidate the story of any woman who hasn't been exposed to those games.

[Bugsie]

If people bothered to read the earlier parts of the thread, or even the OP, (and the addendum Allan added) we wouldn't have to a constantly have the same discussion that hasn't been discussed and refuted numerous times over.

Maybe when the game finally starts we can shift over to the story and character section with a femQuisitor thread (like the femShep thread) for more general discussion.

[WildOrchid]

 

I do. Velvet Assassin: a third person stealth action game from 2009, about Violette Summer - based on real life British SOE agent Violette Szabo who was executed by the Nazis during the Second World War and had a much less English name than 'Summer'.

 

It's the one were because the whole game is Summer hallucinating in hospital you can collect power ups to trigger a special bullet time mode where she runs around in her nightie. Review scores were around 5-6 out of 10. Yeah...

 

 

I really liked the game. Hard as heck but very enjoyable.

[SardaukarElite]

If people bothered to read the earlier parts of the thread, or even the OP, (and the addendum Allan added) we wouldn't have to a constantly have the same discussion that hasn't been discussed and refuted numerous times over.

 

You're an optimist.

 

 

I really liked the game. Hard as heck but very enjoyable.

 

I haven't played it. I get the impression it is troubled, though possibly enjoyable if you can look past that. Not sure how I feel about playing fast and loose with such an established history.

[Bugsie]

You're an optimist.

LOL, so I've been told. Age hasn't dulled that at least.

[Steelcan]

 

 

I haven't played it. I get the impression it is troubled, though possibly enjoyable if you can look past that. Not sure how I feel about playing fast and loose with such an established history.

The issue all games set in actual history come across...

 

*starts conquering Scandinavia as Anglo-Saxon England ruled by the hedonist Queen Judith (gods bless Paradox)

[SardaukarElite]

The issue all games set in actual history come across...

 

Not exactly. My problem is with the idea of fictionalising a specific person. It blurs the line between the two, and I question the grounds on which some things are copied wholly and others are changed or omitted.

 

I think drawing from all the women (and men) of SOE or even broader histories would make the work clearly inspired by history rather than an attempt to improve it and open up access to far more material to use.

[ajiehb]

Either you don't read my post or don't want to understand what I'm trying to say. So I'll try to be very simple now. First of all I did read a lot of this thread if you question me. Not whole, no it's way to big but I've read all the dev posts. Second I'm not against fem Inquisitor advertising. I do agree that there is not many games with fem hero if you will compare to games with male hero. But there is certain myth among dev that game with fem hero would fail or have more chances to fail in sales. If you will look at dev posts in this topic you will find example of Remember Me. Though I think it has failed because of poor game mechanics there is a rumor that it's because of fem hero. There isn't any proof but it's what dev has said and they even said that there was suggestion to change main hero during development of this game. Another game with fem hero that has failed in sales is Mirror Age... though I again think it was not because of heroine but because of literally 3 hour length. Heavently Sword is another example. All this didn't encorage more dev to make main fem hero games. But it show that if devs want to do game with fem main hero nothing can stop them! Yeah still not many dev have guts to do such game and history of such games don't encourage to do more. This and also that there isn't any viable statistic they can get (it's also from dev post on this thread) and impossibility to experiment makes most of games heroes male. Hell dev in this thread proposed crazy idea to all woman not to buy DA:I until some date to see sales increase and learn in this way more about woman gamers. It's shows how much they are lacking info to make decision. All this I learned from this thread. Yet I still want to know more and that’s why I’m posting here. I do think that even in BioWare games woman characters didn’t get what they deserve because it’s simple male path but in woman clothes. But it seems many of you are fine with this because “I don’t want my fem character been treated different from male” so why you don’t want to play male character? Just because you are woman and like to see woman ingame? I’m very surprised to learn that woman don’t want to be treated in games like woman rather more like male. I do think that male and female path in games should be different in many aspects not just love interest and dialogues  is this wrong? And I never said that I’m against more gay\black\fem characters in games. But I don’t want them to do this just because it’s current trend in social media. Let them decide what character they want to see in their games. I do feel that you are making certain pressure on them in this thread it’s my opinion and I’m free to post it here. You are not supposed to like my posts or agree with them. It seems you have one point of view and don’t want to see\hear others. If someone has different opinion it’s automatically rude or offensive? I do say that BioWare didn’t care but I also say that they have right to do so because it’s their game and it shouldn’t  pleased everyone. And finally yes I’m the player who has most of his characters in DOA fem half strait half gay, who enjoys playing non-human characters and more of that I’m a guy who enjoys playing fem characters. And I’m far away from been happy.

[phantomrachie]

 I do think that even in BioWare games woman characters didn’t get what they deserve because it’s simple male path but in woman clothes. But it seems many of you are fine with this because “I don’t want my fem character been treated different from male” so why you don’t want to play male character? Just because you are woman and like to see woman ingame? I’m very surprised to learn that woman don’t want to be treated in games like woman rather more like male.

 

I'm going to regret asking this, but how should a women be treated in a game in your opinion?

 

Men & Women have different genitalia, levels of hormones and sometimes body shapes, why should any of those things affect how a women is treated?

 

In many games that are aimed at young girls and have female protagonists, they do 'girly' things like go shopping and make the dinner.

 

Is that what a female Warden should be doing in the middle of a Blight? What about being a women means that you can't kill darkspawn, have conversations with people or flirt with a pretty girl?

 

How should the Warden, Shepard or Hawke been treated?

 

Men & Women are treated different in IRL society because of OUR society, in a different society men & women could be treated equally.

[Mukora]

"Half straight half gay"

Did you mean bisexual? Because "half straight" is not a thing.

[Steelcan]

You can't say that men and women should be treated equally in Thedas. As was noted earlier, white Thedas is fairly matriarchal. The upper levels of the Chantry only being open to women, Orlais is controlled by an empress (contested currently but not because she is a woman), Ferelden can have a sole female monarch, in practice a sole female monarch, or two joint rulers, and said monarch has already been ruling in practice for years.

While jobs like soldiers and blacksmith and whatnot can be filled by men or women, overalloverall white Thedas isn't a hotbed of gender equality. The qunari flat out forbid question ing gender roles. The Dalish are probably the most egalitarian, we've seen a mix of male and female keepers. Admittedly the sample size is small. Black Thedas does remove the gender restrictions on Chantry hierarchy, but you'd be hard pressed to argue that Tevinter is an equal society.

[R0vena]

I am a female and I absolutely love Witcher series.)

But Bioware is unrivaled in my mind as a game developer. And ability to play a female is a pretty big portion of my enjoyment of their games.

Can I play as a dude? Sure. Hell, I do it even in Dragon Age - a third of my playthroughs are as a male Warden/Hawke. If I feel like rollplaying a male, I do it.

However, I definitely would be playing DA much less if I could play ONLY as a male.

Rollplaying  male and female characters are different. And it feels different. If I play as a male Warden it feels different from playing a female one.

 

In any case, advertising a female protagonist together with a male one is not going to hurt sales, it will increase them since a lot of players prefer to play their own gender. Nobody here asks for full exclusive for female only. 

[SardaukarElite]

I can't get my head around how gender politics is supposed to work in Dragon Age. The women in the Chantry thing should give them a lot of influence on paper but my impression from the games is that everyone in actual positions of power ignores the Chantry.

 

Men & Women are treated different in IRL society because of OUR society, in a different society men & women could be treated equally.

 

This is a complex and prickly issue, but though I can see the merit in stories which ignore gender distinction I would also like more stories which explore it and gender inequality.

 

Another thing is that often ignoring gender differences in stories tends to just mean showing a typically male perspective story but adding women to it, and I feel like there is possibly something being missed in that. Not every female soldier is a Vasquez.

 

 

In many games that are aimed at young girls and have female protagonists, they do 'girly' things like go shopping and make the dinner.

 

Is that what a female Warden should be doing in the middle of a Blight?

 

To be fair, The Warden did spend a lot of time shopping.

[ajiehb]

I'm going to regret asking this, but how should a women be treated in a game in your opinion?

 

Men & Women have different genitalia, levels of hormones and sometimes body shapes, why should any of those things affect how a women is treated?

 

In many games that are aimed at young girls and have female protagonists, they do 'girly' things like go shopping and make the dinner.

 

Is that what a female Warden should be doing in the middle of a Blight? What about being a women means that you can't kill darkspawn, have conversations with people or flirt with a pretty girl?

 

How should the Warden, Shepard or Hawke been treated?

 

Men & Women are treated different in IRL society because of OUR society, in a different society men & women could be treated equally.

As for DAO example male couldn't pretend to be one of the Chantry lady and sneak to the temple and seek for the info\book\key whatever. Give fem character different options in the quests and more people would create their second character woman in order to learn another side of the world. I don't saying that everyone should point that hey you are a woman and you shouldn't fight or lead them or fall. I'm sure you didn't enjoy Leliana monologue about dressing Morrigan because it was too girlish, huh? Or not? It's not a secret that woman more cares about dresses, even in this thread one of you wanted a ball dress for her female Inquisitor would it be bad if there is an option for fem hero to actually get such dress in game? There are a lot of things that could separate female Inquisitor from male in a good way. Or you don't believe in this? Or you don't want?

 

I aware that any unique content could generate a lot of hate from those who won't get it :\ but it's not the reason to be afraid of such things.

[ajiehb]

"Half straight half gay"

Did you mean bisexual? Because "half straight" is not a thing.

Half of my heroes were straight the other were gay.

[SpiritMuse]

I do think that even in BioWare games woman characters didn’t get what they deserve because it’s simple male path but in woman clothes. But it seems many of you are fine with this because “I don’t want my fem character been treated different from male” so why you don’t want to play male character? Just because you are woman and like to see woman ingame? I’m very surprised to learn that woman don’t want to be treated in games like woman rather more like male.

I loved FemShep exactly because she was treated exactly the same as her male counterpart. Sure, it may have been a matter of necessity as much as intentional design, but that doesn't change the fact that she ended up a badass female space marine whose badassness and authority isn't questioned constantly because she's a woman. It was wonderful to be able to play a female character who wasn't constantly met with people who were surprised that a woman could (and would) be badass, or even more annoying, people who dismiss her for being a woman that she then has to work extra hard to prove herself to just to get them to work with her (as much as I love proving people wrong, it does get tiresome when you have to do it over and over again).

And, no it doesn't mean I'd rather play as a man instead. I just want to play as a woman who doesn't have to deal with all the extra baggage of "being a woman". I don't want to be "treated like a woman", but I also don't want to be "treated like a man". I want to be treated neutral, as a person, whether I play as man or woman.

[phantomrachie]

This is a complex and prickly issue, but though I can see the merit in stories which ignore gender distinction I would also like more stories which explore it and gender inequality.

 

Another thing is that often ignoring gender differences in stories tends to just mean showing a typically male perspective story but adding women to it, and I feel like there is possibly something being missed in that. Not every female soldier is a Vasquez.

 

 

That is very true, my issue is that when people say they want the genders to be treated differently in a game, they often mean they want a female character to conform what their view of feminine is or they want characters to say things like 'you're tough for a woman'. This lazy exploration of gender differences is much more grating to me then stories that are essentially the same regardless of the gender of the protagonist.

 

One of the reasons why I liked Leliana's Song DLC was because Leliana is a great example of someone who likes fashion AND can stab you in the face, which is interesting.

 

Generally female characters are one or the other.

 

As for DAO example male couldn't pretend to be one of the Chantry lady and sneak to the temple and seek for the info\book\key whatever. Give fem character different options in the quests and more people would create their second character woman in order to learn another side of the world. I don't saying that everyone should point that hey you are a woman and you shouldn't fight or lead them or fall. I'm sure you didn't enjoy Leliana monologue about dressing Morrigan because it was too girlish, huh? Or not? It's not a secret that woman more cares about dresses, even in this thread one of you wanted a ball dress for her female Inquisitor would it be bad if there is an option for fem hero to actually get such dress in game? There are a lot of things that could separate female Inquisitor from male in a good way. Or you don't believe in this? Or you don't want?

 

I aware that any unique content could generate a lot of hate from those who won't get it :\ but it's not the reason to be afraid of such things.

 

Ok - I'm glad I asked what you meant. I had worried that you wanted characters to bring up that the protagonist was a women and be all surprised by it or some other annoying trope.

 

I like the idea of some quests having different paths depending on your gender or even race. As you said a man couldn't pretend to be a Chantry sister but neither could a dwarf so they'd need a different way to sneak in. 

 

I'm not opposed to the PC have different options or choices based on their gender. I'm also not opposed to a game that explores gender differences or gender roles, it's just that historically this has always been handled poorly.

 

'She's as kick ass spy, who has to solve a case AND be on time for her hot date to collect her'

 

As for your question about Leliana and Morrigan, I liked that Leliana wanted to take her shopping because it fit within Leliana's character. If it had been the other way around I would've hated it because that would be out of character for Morrigan.

 

Women can like fashion and dressing up, so can men, but it needs to be part of their character and not something that they just do or don't do because of their gender. 

 

 

I loved FemShep exactly because she was treated exactly the same as her male counterpart. Sure, it may have been a matter of necessity as much as intentional design, but that doesn't change the fact that she ended up a badass female space marine whose badassness and authority isn't questioned constantly because she's a woman. It was wonderful to be able to play a female character who wasn't constantly met with people who were surprised that a woman could (and would) be badass, or even more annoying, people who dismiss her for being a woman that she then has to work extra hard to prove herself to just to get them to work with her (as much as I love proving people wrong, it does get tiresome when you have to do it over and over again).

And, no it doesn't mean I'd rather play as a man instead. I just want to play as a woman who doesn't have to deal with all the extra baggage of "being a woman". I don't want to be "treated like a woman", but I also don't want to be "treated like a man". I want to be treated neutral, as a person, whether I play as man or woman.

 

Thank you - this is pretty much what I was trying to say in my earlier post 

[Gothfather]

I'm very interested to see stats similar to the PAX infographic for ME3

 

 

I expect male humans to still be the largest single group, but I wonder if they will be a flat out majority or if the distribution will be more equal

Well BioWare is a company that is BIG into metrics, so i would be very surprised if they don't have metrics for the gender, race and class of the inquisitor starting to trickle in now. But they may not share these with the public simply because this information is proprietary that is used to help them create better games, and they don't want to help the competition. I think a very valueable metric to add light to this is how LONG was each Inquisitor played? Does the no gender default create more Inquisitors that are played for only a very short time?

 

I think race metrics will be very important to the development of the next game, if one race is VERY low as in less than 10% of the inquisitors made is of X race. We may see X race dropped simply because its not worth the development time.