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[erilben]

I'm curious about the answer to this, too.  As far as I know, DA2 did not show Lady Hawke at all.  Somebody said that DAO had posters with the different races on them?  Were those all male?

 

 

There was posters for all 6 origins, and half of them are female. At first DAO had trailers and pictures that would often have female PCs. I think the city elf and mage trailer has a female PC. I think one of the first big reveals about what DAO was about was in a magazine that had the art for the female elf mage (the one you see on the DAO launcher). At some point that changed, they switch to showing nothing but the same human male Warden with dark hair. I think this was around the same time they starting pushing about how violent and bloody DAO was.

[Mes]

There was posters for all 6 origins, and half of them are female. At first DAO had trailers and pictures that would often have female PCs. I think the city elf and mage trailer has a female PC. I think one of the first big reveals about what DAO was about was in a magazine that had the art for the female elf mage (the one you see on the DAO launcher). At some point that changed, they switch to showing nothing but the same human male Warden with dark hair. I think this was around the same time they starting pushing about how violent and bloody DAO was.

 

Huh. Interesting.

 

Well I hope they go back the route of Origins for Inquisition and improve upon it.

 

Fem Hawke looks weird in that poster. She looks like she's from a Final Fantasy game.

[Lady Nuggins]

The posters for DAO had an even split - 3 males and 3 females. You can see them in the spoiler below (I put them in a spoiler tag because they're quite big):

Spoiler

Mage:

Human Noble:

Dwarf Noble:

Dwarf Commoner:

Dalish Elf:

City Elf:

 

Wow, those are neat!  I especially love how the city elf and casteless dwarf give hints about their origins. 

 

There was posters for all 6 origins, and half of them are female. At first DAO had trailers and pictures that would often have female PCs. I think the city elf and mage trailer has a female PC. I think one of the first big reveals about what DAO was about was in a magazine that had the art for the female elf mage (the one you see on the DAO launcher). At some point that changed, they switch to showing nothing but the same human male Warden with dark hair. I think this was around the same time they starting pushing about how violent and bloody DAO was.

 

Wow, that's... weird.  Can't have a female lead in such a violent game?  Not even with the bloody elf bride up there?

 

I wonder if there were other reasons why they switched to just the human male.  Was the message considered unclear with more than one version of the Warden visible? 

 

 

Fem Hawke looks weird in that poster. She looks like she's from a Final Fantasy game.

 

I was trying to find images of mage Lady Hawke for my friend's cosplay, and I couldn't tell if it was fanart.  The art style seems slightly different from the style used for male Hawke--kind of softer, I think?  And she's missing the blood smear that male Hawke wears in every other promo image. 

[Tayah]

Wow, those are neat!  I especially love how the city elf and casteless dwarf give hints about their origins. 

 

Wow, that's... weird.  Can't have a female lead in such a violent game?  Not even with the bloody elf bride up there?

 

I wonder if there were other reasons why they switched to just the human male.  Was the message considered unclear with more than one version of the Warden visible? 

 

I was trying to find images of mage Lady Hawke for my friend's cosplay, and I couldn't tell if it was fanart.  The art style seems slightly different from the style used for male Hawke--kind of softer, I think?  And she's missing the blood smear that male Hawke wears in every other promo image. 

Yeah the missing blood smear in the promo image is interesting doesn't default fem Hawke have it in the CC? There was also a trailer with Duncan doing the voice over that showed the multiple warden choices, both genders and all three races as they arrive at Ostegar that showed the choices clearly.

 

I know the question of a default is moot since we're going to have (and already have) one somewhat and I get that putting a face on the game is the purpose of the strategy and that it makes a definite image to market the game with my problem is that when you have so many choices available and that is a big selling point and difference between this game and most out there that you actually hide those choices. Choosing your own race is a big difference but the current default male inquisitor hides that choice because although you can't tell much about him under that helmet you can tell he's human... and male. We're hoping to see footage of Lady inquisitor and so far the art of her has been fantastic but she's also human so again the racial choice is hidden.

 

If the marketing is going to pick a face to make the game default history tells us that they usually pick male, white, human and in a game with gender and racial choices it seems to me it immediately hides those customisation options. I don't think highlighting different racial and gender choices has to be unfocused or unclear and I didn't think it was with the warden. I don't know why they changed to showing one dudebro warden when they got to the violence it may have been not wanting to put women in the centre of violence, it may have been following everyone else with the dudebro because everyone else was selling well and they didn't want to be left behind and it maybe they thought they'd already shown the options and could now pick a 'face' to represent the game.

 

Interestingly I've seen less 'the warden is always male because that's the default' arguments than the same argument for who the real Hawke and Sheppard are... Sheppard in particular. That maybe because bioware's canon has female dalish elf and it might be because the marketing did show more racial and gender options and it might be because there were so many options in the game. The 'Sheppard is male' arguments often point to his marketing as proof of their position though why any of the protagonists need to be seen as only one version I've not deduced. Perhaps a little more marketing of the different choices would lead to less of those arguments and a little more respect for other people's choices and ways of playing too... or maybe not given this is BSN and 'discussing' is what we do best. 

 

Note/Disclaimer: the above is only my very subjective opinion based on how I've seen or interpreted things I've read across multiple threads and forums and is not intended as an attack on anyone or any viewpoint in case that's not clear. 

[WildOrchid]

 

Fem Hawke looks weird in that poster. She looks like she's from a Final Fantasy game.

 

Shhh!!

She looks amazing to me.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Man those dao posters were great. Such a disappointment when you actually see the "wedding dress" in game though.

[Darth Krytie]

Man those dao posters were great. Such a disappointment when you actually see the "wedding dress" in game though.

 

That poster was the reason why I played City Elf on my first playthrough of DA:O. And then. There was the reality of it.

[oceanicsurvivor]

That poster was the reason why I played City Elf on my first playthrough of DA:O. And then. There was the reality of it.

I'm still bummed about how amazingly epic leather armor looks in the Dalish poster. Maybe this time....things will be different.

[Darth Krytie]

I'm still bummed about how amazingly epic leather armor looks in the Dalish poster. Maybe this time....things will be different.

 

I'll be happy if we continue along the path of having no midriff exposing armor and no boob-cup armor.

[oceanicsurvivor]

I'll be happy if we continue along the path of having no midriff exposing armor and no boob-cup armor.

oh yeah. that was...weird in Origins. Leliana was the one player I could nvr really get an 'iconic' look for in my playthroughs. I just meant the general dark, leathery look and the detail in that poster though. It looks like expertly handcraft armor, which makes that dude look even more terrifying/epic.

 

DA2 I think was better overall with promo stuff translating to the game. The Champions armor looks consistently epic for instance.

 

So hopefully that continues in DAI. Seems like an interesting/good selection so far. Still a bit skeptical about the hats...

[Oasis_JS]

I feel in love with my female hawke Rogue Champion armor..^^ Playing the two dlc with the champion armor with no helmet.. Was great!! I got to see the armor in movie format so many times^^ hehe

[Felya87]

I had never seen those posters of Origins! quite incredibly, I had made a picture of my city Elf quite similar to that one (just a little less scary)

Spoiler

[Mockingword]

I'll be happy if we continue along the path of having no midriff exposing armor and no boob-cup armor.

But I want a chainmail loincloth and bondage straps for my male characters. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Yeah the missing blood smear in the promo image is interesting doesn't default fem Hawke have it in the CC? There was also a trailer with Duncan doing the voice over that showed the multiple warden choices, both genders and all three races as they arrive at Ostegar that showed the choices clearly.

 

I know the question of a default is moot since we're going to have (and already have) one somewhat and I get that putting a face on the game is the purpose of the strategy and that it makes a definite image to market the game with my problem is that when you have so many choices available and that is a big selling point and difference between this game and most out there that you actually hide those choices. Choosing your own race is a big difference but the current default male inquisitor hides that choice because although you can't tell much about him under that helmet you can tell he's human... and male. We're hoping to see footage of Lady inquisitor and so far the art of her has been fantastic but she's also human so again the racial choice is hidden.

 

If the marketing is going to pick a face to make the game default history tells us that they usually pick male, white, human and in a game with gender and racial choices it seems to me it immediately hides those customisation options. I don't think highlighting different racial and gender choices has to be unfocused or unclear and I didn't think it was with the warden. I don't know why they changed to showing one dudebro warden when they got to the violence it may have been not wanting to put women in the centre of violence, it may have been following everyone else with the dudebro because everyone else was selling well and they didn't want to be left behind and it maybe they thought they'd already shown the options and could now pick a 'face' to represent the game.

 

Interestingly I've seen less 'the warden is always male because that's the default' arguments than the same argument for who the real Hawke and Sheppard are... Sheppard in particular. That maybe because bioware's canon has female dalish elf and it might be because the marketing did show more racial and gender options and it might be because there were so many options in the game. The 'Sheppard is male' arguments often point to his marketing as proof of their position though why any of the protagonists need to be seen as only one version I've not deduced. Perhaps a little more marketing of the different choices would lead to less of those arguments and a little more respect for other people's choices and ways of playing too... or maybe not given this is BSN and 'discussing' is what we do best. 

 

Note/Disclaimer: the above is only my very subjective opinion based on how I've seen or interpreted things I've read across multiple threads and forums and is not intended as an attack on anyone or any viewpoint in case that's not clear. 

 

Oh yeah, I get what you're saying 100%.  I think that putting a default face on the protag works for DA2 and ME (although the female version should have still been visible even in that model, especially Hawke since they made such a point of giving them similar features, like the blood smear) but you're right, it's not necessarily the strongest marketing tool in a game where you have so many more choices than female human/male human.

 

What I mean to say is that even though what we're seeing NOW is nothing but white male human (with a couple drawings of white female human), I'm hoping that the lack of distinct appearance for him implies that they will branch out more later, after they've finalized the appearance of everyone else.  If they'd wanted to make him the face of the Inquisition, they should have given him a more interesting appearance, like Hawke had.  By covering his face with the iconic helmet (and I'm pretty sure they've been dead set on that helmet being a symbol of the game for a long time--I have a pin of the helmet from PAX last September), they're leaving themselves a lot more room to change who is under the helmet.

 

Yeah, it's interesting how much fandom is influenced by marketing.  We all played the same games, we all know the choices offered, yet because a company's marketing team only talked about BroShep and Male Hawke, those are the only "true" versions.  People are so much more accepting of different choices in Origins.

[aTigerslunch]

I read alot in here and wanted to add to what's been brought up alot.

A female inquisitor in full armor would be great to see in a trailer. I actually favored FemSheps trailor more than previous trailors of ME3. She was dressed properly. Also, it was and still is very unique. Lara Croft seems too sexualized to take seriously. Though she is a great skilled lady adventurer on par with Indiana Jones, to bad for trying to sell to men on that one. I could be wrong on that but that is how I feel of what they did.

Honestly if I wanted to attack a woman in scantily clad armor, I know where she be the most vulnerable. I am a male, seen a woman like that is pleasant but when in a battle, the last thought I would be thinking is how sexy she looks. I want to live, not die. I do play a fair equal amount of male/female in these games. I prefer the female because there are too many males to play as in many other games.

The armor has to be fitting to the female and male. I want a properly armored female inquisitor trailor. My friends wife would of picked up the games quicker if it was shown properly too. Too many examples as stated above on this fact for female buyers that are not represented properly. They should be. My male friends would agree here too. ME3 was more promising and appealing to shown as not sexualized.

[Allan Schumacher]

it's not necessarily the strongest marketing tool in a game where you have so many more choices than female human/male human.

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this.  It's long past now, but I do know that I can easily identify Hawke related art/cosplay and whatnot, which is an association with DA2.  I'm not sure if I feel I can do that with the Warden.  I have to rely on other characters, which may or may not be as ideal.

[Darth Krytie]

I'm not sure if I agree with this.  It's long past now, but I do know that I can easily identify Hawke related art/cosplay and whatnot, which is an association with DA2.  I'm not sure if I feel I can do that with the Warden.  I have to rely on other characters, which may or may not be as ideal.

 

I think that this is true, mostly because they hadn't yet come up with the Iconic Warden look in the first game. Now, that they have the one with the blue and white stripes... if I saw someone in that, I'd immediately know they were in cosplaying a Warden. If they have a motif/sigil/colour palet that's unique to the Inquisitor, then it'd be easy to identify, no matter what race/gender mix they are.

[Allan Schumacher]

I think that this is true, mostly because they hadn't yet come up with the Iconic Warden look in the first game. Now, that they have the one with the blue and white stripes... if I saw someone in that, I'd immediately know they were in cosplaying a Warden. If they have a motif/sigil/colour palet that's unique to the Inquisitor, then it'd be easy to identify, no matter what race/gender mix they are.

 

I agree that it doesn't require that a face be shown.  I think that DAI's helmet is done the way it is to look unique and identifiable as well.  And the glove/mark and whatnot.

 

I think there's still potential problems though, in that someone could be dressed like a Warden, have a killer moustache, and I go "Oh look Stroud!" and then he goes "No I'm THE Warden " and then I feel bad

[Darth Krytie]

I agree that it doesn't require that a face be shown.  I think that DAI's helmet is done the way it is to look unique and identifiable as well.  And the glove/mark and whatnot.

 

I think there's still potential problems though, in that someone could be dressed like a Warden, have a killer moustache, and I go "Oh look Stroud!" and then he goes "No I'm THE Warden " and then I feel bad

 

I hadn't thought of that. Yes, the Warden never had anything 100% uniquely belonging to them.

[Allan Schumacher]

I hadn't thought of that. Yes, the Warden never had anything 100% uniquely belonging to them.

 

Just to be clear I'm not saying that it's required or anything like that.  Simply that it might still be effective advertising (I'm pretty oblivious to the arcane arts of marketing however, so it's just an assumption on my part)

[Darth Krytie]

Just to be clear I'm not saying that it's required or anything like that.  Simply that it might still be effective advertising (I'm pretty oblivious to the arcane arts of marketing however, so it's just an assumption on my part)

 

Even people who spend years in marketing don't always nail effective advertising. I think they read entrails and tea leaves before deciding on an effective campaign.

[Tayah]

I agree that it doesn't require that a face be shown.  I think that DAI's helmet is done the way it is to look unique and identifiable as well.  And the glove/mark and whatnot.

 

I think there's still potential problems though, in that someone could be dressed like a Warden, have a killer moustache, and I go "Oh look Stroud!" and then he goes "No I'm THE Warden " and then I feel bad

Had cosplaying been big with bioware games before DAO and was it something on the marketing radar do you think?

 

As the first in the series and being so focused at the time on being a spiritual successor to BG2 I remember a lot of emphasis on races and origins as well as companions which maybe why they didn't start out with or have an iconic marker for the warden. Maybe that is one of the things having the inquisitor's helmet can change is allowing more races and both genders to have some time in the spotlight while still tying them together, offering the focus that links the different inquisitors together. Speculating wildly... cause I'm not biased or anything 

 

At least I hope they could use the helmet and give us the fem inquisitor trailer and trailer(s) for different races too... that would be brilliant!     

[Allan Schumacher]

Had cosplaying been big with bioware games before DAO and was it something on the marketing radar do you think?

 

I honestly couldn't say.  I started in June 2009 so I was there at the very tail end of development and much of that stuff simply wasn't on my radar!

[Mes]

All your talk of cosplay... Makes me think of Cass's lovely armor (yes I even love the hearts. Has an eerie Alice vibe to it.) 

 

Dunno if a "recognizable" look for Quizzy would be necessary, though the helmet and cowboy hat are starting to get iconic I feel.