9318 réponses à ce sujet

[syllogi]

Even if we don't get to see ingame screenshots of female versions of the Inquisitor fairly soon, I'd at least like to see a character kit for both male and female versions of the Inquisitor's "iconic" armor set. For me, it would mostly be for fanart references, so I know it's not the most pressing concern for the devs right now...but it would be something to get excited over, without revealing new info about companions they're not ready to introduce yet.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

There are a lot of assumptions being made by both speculators and marketers that certain things will negatively affect sales. Would Avatar have been more popular if the Na'vi were human instead?(it was insanely popular)Same with the Hobbit. Would The Walking Dead game (Telltale) have been more popular if Lee and Clementine had been white? (also popular and critically acclaimed) Would FFXIII series be more popular if Lightning had been a man? Who watches Game of Thrones and goes "this would be so much better if Daenerys was a man!" (or even not watch it at all because half the main characters are women)I think these assumptions are false. People identify with characters if they're well written and relatable, not if they're a certain race or gender. We're not living in the 60's anymore, you can dare to branch out and try to approach 2014 game companies/marketers.

Oh yes love lee and clem, I think most people aren't so racist as to let that negatively affect their experience. But would lots of people with no interest in walking dead or telltale be less inclined to try it if the protagonists were say, indian instead of white? I'd bet a small amount of money they would

[Mes]

There are a lot of assumptions being made by both speculators and marketers that certain things will negatively affect sales. Would Avatar have been more popular if the Na'vi were human instead?(it was insanely popular)Same with the Hobbit. Would The Walking Dead game (Telltale) have been more popular if Lee and Clementine had been white? (also popular and critically acclaimed) Would FFXIII series be more popular if Lightning had been a man? Who watches Game of Thrones and goes "this would be so much better if Daenerys was a man!" (or even not watch it at all because half the main characters are women)I think these assumptions are false. People identify with characters if they're well written and relatable, not if they're a certain race or gender. We're not living in the 60's anymore, you can dare to branch out and try to approach 2014 game companies/marketers.

 

Wonderfully said, particularly the bolded part.

 

It's way too easy for people to blame failure of a product on women or a racial minority, rather than admit they've created a crap product.

[Nefla]

Oh yes love lee and clem, I think most people aren't so racist as to let that negatively affect their experience. But would lots of people with no interest in walking dead or telltale be less inclined to try it if the protagonists were say, indian instead of white? I'd bet a small amount of money they would

Personally I would be much MORE inclined to buy a game if the protagonist is different than the standard cookie cutter straight white guy (or occasionally straight white girl).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There are a lot of assumptions being made by both speculators and marketers that certain things will negatively affect sales. Would Avatar have been more popular if the Na'vi were human instead?(it was insanely popular)Same with the Hobbit. Would The Walking Dead game (Telltale) have been more popular if Lee and Clementine had been white? (also popular and critically acclaimed) Would FFXIII series be more popular if Lightning had been a man? Who watches Game of Thrones and goes "this would be so much better if Daenerys was a man!" (or even not watch it at all because half the main characters are women)I think these assumptions are false. People identify with characters if they're well written and relatable, not if they're a certain race or gender. We're not living in the 60's anymore, you can dare to branch out and try to approach 2014 game companies/marketers.

I thought of Kelly Chamber's "Character matters, not race or gender." line when I read that.

[Nefla]

I thought of Kelly Chamber's "Character matters, not race or gender." line when I read that.

Oh myy...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Oh myy...

Oh my what? It was a sweet line by a sweet character.

[Nefla]

Oh my what? It was a sweet line by a sweet character.

https://www.youtube....h?v=yicbvWwQ_MA you can take that comment romantically and I was being silly

[Hanako Ikezawa]

https://www.youtube....h?v=yicbvWwQ_MA you can take that comment romantically and I was being silly

Ah, okay. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Thank you for pretty much summing up for me why I don't like the design of the Qunari women They just look to me like they're like is Demona was sexualized only less purple and more gray (don't get me wrong I love Demona and Gargoyles) Its even worse when you look at how the male Qunaris look they look big and bulky and interesting to me shouldn't the females of the same species  reflect that? At least bulk them up in size a little bit make them look like they can birth a ox-man or ox-woman without breaking their pelvis bones geez... (also I get why some people feel male qunari's look generic too but the females are so much worse in this area)

 

I'm reserving judgment until we get to see clearer designs of the female qunari, but yeah.  I'm a bit disappointed that they aren't more bulky like their male counterparts.  Especially because I distinctly recall the devs at the "playable races" panel last year saying that they were looking at female athletes for inspiration for female qunari.  It hasn't quite lived up to what I envisioned. 

 

I'm just reminded of the thing brass buckles made me think of but dismissed. I wonder how many non-whites play a white character anyway when there's a choice.

 

Like I play male characters too, not because I'm brainwashed, but because of the different gameplay experience(to varying degrees) or voice actors. But there's very little reason for someone to play a different ethinicity, unless maybe they think it doesn't fit the lore or setting in something like dragon age.

 

African americans are probably the most well represented in video games and media after whites, albeit in mostly stereotypical themes, but for everyone else? it's a ghost town.

 

I'm willing to bet that it all depends on how well the CC accommodates non-white characters.  I think lots of people of colour would prefer to make a character that looks more like them, but the CC usually has very few hair and eye options that are not white, and the skin tones usually leave a lot to be desired. 

[Oasis_JS]

It also depends on what type of female athletes they were looking at? I mean body types vary  with in the athletic activity

[Mes]

It also depends on what type of female athletes they were looking at? I mean body types vary  with in the athletic activity

 

Yeah I guess we'll find out eventually. 

 

To be honest I'm not a fan of the male Qunari look, either. They look like body builders on lots and lots of steroids.  To be fair I've seen some very nice fanart, but again, the official concept art has been MEH. 

 

I get male Qunari need to be strong because they're assigned in their society to be warriors, but physical strength isn't everything - you need speed, agility... Personally I would have preferred the male Qunari to have more of a typical "athletic" build than body builder. 

 

The lack of clothing is weird, too.

 

I dunno. Man would really friggin love a CC demo right about now....

[Oasis_JS]

Yeah I guess we'll find out eventually. 

 

To be honest I'm not a fan of the male Qunari look, either. They look like body builders on lots and lots of steroids.  To be fair I've seen some very nice fanart, but again, the official concept art has been MEH. 

 

I get male Qunari need to be strong because they're assigned in their society to be warriors, but physical strength isn't everything - you need speed, agility... Personally I would have preferred the male Qunari to have more of a typical "athletic" build than body builder. 

 

The lack of clothing is weird, too.

 

I dunno. Man would really friggin love a CC demo right about now....

haha, yeah they do like there lack of clothes, Don't they, hahaha.   I always saw them as the typical spartan or Greek life style. They would wear less clothes..it just the whole style of customs.. I dunno why but they just do..=p maybe it's always really sunny where they come from =p

 

[Tayah]

Yeah I guess we'll find out eventually. 

 

To be honest I'm not a fan of the male Qunari look, either. They look like body builders on lots and lots of steroids.  To be fair I've seen some very nice fanart, but again, the official concept art has been MEH. 

 

I get male Qunari need to be strong because they're assigned in their society to be warriors, but physical strength isn't everything - you need speed, agility... Personally I would have preferred the male Qunari to have more of a typical "athletic" build than body builder. 

 

The lack of clothing is weird, too.

 

I dunno. Man would really friggin love a CC demo right about now....

Female qunari would need to be strong too though because they do all the farming, smithing, crafting, weapon making and making of construction materials and maybe the actual construction? (the wiki didn't seem to say who does that) so I would think they should look just as strong as their male counterparts because they're going to be using brute strength for some of those tasks at least as much as a soldier.

 

It will be interesting to see how the qunari females look in game compared to both their male qunari counterparts and the females of other races. Yeah, I would really love a CC demo now too.  

 

haha, yeah they do like there lack of clothes, Don't they, hahaha.   I always saw them as the typical spartan or Greek life style. They would wear less clothes..it just the whole style of customs.. I dunno why but they just do..=p maybe it's always really sunny where they come from =p

 

And it must be practically a sauna year round where they live 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

haha, yeah they do like there lack of clothes, Don't they, hahaha.   I always saw them as the typical spartan or Greek life style. They would wear less clothes..it just the whole style of customs.. I dunno why but they just do..=p maybe it's always really sunny where they come from =p

 

Par Vollen is an island noted for being the largest known home of the Qunari. It is a tropical island chain, which is covered mostly by rainforests and jungles, and located far north of Rivain

[Mes]

Par Vollen is an island noted for being the largest known home of the Qunari. It is a tropical island chain, which is covered mostly by rainforests and jungles, and located far north of Rivain

 

Doesn't explain deh nekkedness outside of Par Vollen, hehe.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

 

I get male Qunari need to be strong because they're assigned in their society to be warriors, but physical strength isn't everything - you need speed, agility... Personally I would have preferred the male Qunari to have more of a typical "athletic" build than body builder. 

 

Yeah, they need to be strong, but making them bulked up is unnecessary.  Chimpanzees are, like, five times stronger than a human being but, on average, weigh much less.  Their muscle is different than ours.  Bioware could have done something similar with the vashoth.  As they are, I question the mobility of their armies.  They look, what, like, 300+ lbs?  Humans armies could run circles around these guys.  Their knees would give out after a week's march, not to mention their feet.  Think of the calluses!  And the caloric requirements of a Qunari army must be a crippling logistical nightmare.  So, I agree with you.  I think the Qunari appearance is a (mildly) disappointing failure of imagination and creativity.  

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Doesn't explain deh nekkedness outside of Par Vollen, hehe.

They're so huge and generate so much heat that they have to be naked lest they collapse from heat exhaustion after the mildest exertion.  

Modifié par Kaiser Wilhelm, 07 mai 2014 - 05:18 .

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

On topic:

 

I would argue (I do argue) that, because of male hostility to women in gaming and on the internet in general, BioWare has a special duty to provide assurances that women (as a group) are welcome (that their opinions and feelings will be respected and they will be accorded a place in the community and game worlds equal to that of all other classes of people), and that one of the ways BioWare can/should publicly provide these assurances is to represent women in official marketing materials and art.  I'll do a thorough argument, if anyone asks for it, but here's the quick and dirty version:

 

1. Women should be afforded equal footing in all public spaces. (I'm skipping a bunch of steps here)

2.  There are those who seek to undermine assurances of equality for women in gaming spheres.

3. All right-thinking (correct-thinking) people and groups provide assurances of equality to all groups of people in public spaces (Like I said, quick, but a little sloppy).

4. BioWare is a right-thinking group (or a group that values equality and assurances of equality).

Therefore:

5. BioWare does/should assure women of their welcomeness in its games and on its fora.

6. One way to demonstrate that women are assured of welcome (and that those who seek to undermine these assurances are themselves unwelcome) is to represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.

Therefore:

7.  Bioware should represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.  

 

Something like that.

 

This is based partially on Jeremy Waldron's work in The Harm in Hate Speech.  

 

I threw this together in haste, and there're plenty of implicit premises that need to be made explicit, but (inshallah) y'all get the gist of it.

Modifié par Kaiser Wilhelm, 07 mai 2014 - 05:30 .

[tmp7704]

Yeah, they need to be strong, but making them bulked up is unnecessary.

It's unnecessary, but an easy way to provide some visual difference between the species. Leaving them with physique close to that of humans/elves promptly leads to people complaining how they're just "humans with horns" (i.e. similar to complaints raised about species designs in DA:O)

[In Exile]

 

On topic:

 

I would argue (I do argue) that, because of male hostility to women in gaming and on the internet in general, BioWare has a special duty to provide assurances that women (as a group) are welcome (that their opinions and feelings will be respected and they will be accorded a place in the community and game worlds equal to that of all other classes of people), and that one of the ways BioWare can/should publicly provide these assurances is to represent women in official marketing materials and art.  I'll do a thorough argument, if anyone asks for it, but here's the quick and dirty version:

 

1. Women should be afforded equal footing in all public spaces. (I'm skipping a bunch of steps here)

2.  There are those who seek to undermine assurances of equality for women in gaming spheres.

3. All right-thinking (correct-thinking) people and groups provide assurances of equality to all groups of people in public spaces (Like I said, quick, but a little sloppy).

4. BioWare is a right-thinking group (or a group that values equality and assurances of equality).

Therefore:

5. BioWare does/should assure women of their welcomeness in its games and on its fora.

6. One way to demonstrate that women are assured of welcome (and that those who seek to undermine these assurances are themselves unwelcome) is to represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.

Therefore:

7.  Bioware should represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.  

 

Something like that.

 

This is based partially on Jeremy Waldron's work in The Harm in Hate Speech.  

 

I threw this together in haste, and there're plenty of implicit premises that need to be made explicit, but (inshallah) y'all get the gist of it.

 

 

While I generally agree with what you say, I think it's important to clarify that it's about marketing to women as much as it is marketing women. That, among other things, makes it clear that stuff like sexualizing the female protagonist or otherwise saying bizarre or creepy things (like the Tomb Raider marketing) is not OK and not an acceptable approach. 

[Spirit Keeper]

 

On topic:

 

I would argue (I do argue) that, because of male hostility to women in gaming and on the internet in general, BioWare has a special duty to provide assurances that women (as a group) are welcome (that their opinions and feelings will be respected and they will be accorded a place in the community and game worlds equal to that of all other classes of people), and that one of the ways BioWare can/should publicly provide these assurances is to represent women in official marketing materials and art.  I'll do a thorough argument, if anyone asks for it, but here's the quick and dirty version:

 

1. Women should be afforded equal footing in all public spaces. (I'm skipping a bunch of steps here)

2.  There are those who seek to undermine assurances of equality for women in gaming spheres.

3. All right-thinking (correct-thinking) people and groups provide assurances of equality to all groups of people in public spaces (Like I said, quick, but a little sloppy).

4. BioWare is a right-thinking group (or a group that values equality and assurances of equality).

Therefore:

5. BioWare does/should assure women of their welcomeness in its games and on its fora.

6. One way to demonstrate that women are assured of welcome (and that those who seek to undermine these assurances are themselves unwelcome) is to represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.

Therefore:

7.  Bioware should represent women on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.  

 

Something like that.

 

This is based partially on Jeremy Waldron's work in The Harm in Hate Speech.  

 

I threw this together in haste, and there're plenty of implicit premises that need to be made explicit, but (inshallah) y'all get the gist of it.

 

It may just be your wording, but I have an issue with that first paragraph. Bioware doesn't owe women special anything, they owe every individual the same respect and inclusivity on the forum regardless on gender or sexuality. Secondly, why is it that people only ever mention women as if they are the only people that suffers in any way like some kind of exclusive group? It's far harder for gay or trans people in society, when was the last time a woman was beaten, sodomized with a beer bottle, murdered and set on fire because they were a woman? Women may suffer from far higher sexual threats but men suffer more threats of violence so the complete and utter disregard for men is not exactly appreciated in a conversation on equality.

 

I don't think anyone can disagree that there is gender discrimination still going on but for everyone to go on about women, women women gets old after a while. Men get discriminated against, gay people, trans people, asexual, black people, asian, mexicans. I bet a poor man gets treated worse in society that a rich woman. To get my point across better allow me to change what you quoted, I shall bold the changes.

 

1. Everyone should be afforded equal footing in all public spaces. (I'm skipping a bunch of steps here)

2.  There are those who seek to undermine assurances of equality for people in gaming spheres.

3. All right-thinking (correct-thinking) people and groups provide assurances of equality to all groups of people in public spaces (Like I said, quick, but a little sloppy).

4. BioWare is a right-thinking group (or a group that values equality and assurances of equality).

Therefore:

5. BioWare does/should assure everyone of their welcomeness in its games and on its fora.

6. One way to demonstrate that all are assured of welcome (and that those who seek to undermine these assurances are themselves unwelcome) is to represent all on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.

Therefore:

7.  Bioware should represent everyone, be it men, a women, gay, bi, trans or straight people on official marketing, merchandise, advertising, and art.  

 

That I had to change anything in bold from 'women' to terms actually representing equality in this day and age is sad. As a gay man, when I see the plethora of posts from woman seeking equality for women and with no mention of anyone else as well as the complete disregard for any discrimination against other groups (yes, including men) it bugs me. You should all be asking for equality for all, not just women. We need to get everyone on an even playing field not get women there first and everyone else later.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

It may just be your wording, but I have an issue with that first paragraph. Bioware doesn't owe women special anything, they owe every individual the same respect and inclusivity on the forum regardless on gender or sexuality. Secondly, why is it that people only ever mention women as if they are the only people that suffers in any way like some kind of exclusive group? It's far harder for gay or trans people in society, when was the last time a woman was beaten, sodomized with a beer bottle, murdered and set on fire because they were a woman? Women may suffer from far higher sexual threats but men suffer more threats of violence so the complete and utter disregard for men is not exactly appreciated in a conversation on equality.

 

 

Bioware does owe women especially because they are historically a repressed group and half the population.  Misogyny is increasing, as is violence against women.  Other repressed or historically repressed groups are outside the purview of this thread and the argument I provided is obviously a template.  This thread has a topic.  Please don't "fill in the blanks."  One topic at a time.  If you have something to say about my argument that is not strictly related to the representation of women, please, by Zeus, message me.

[In Exile]

It may just be your wording, but I have an issue with that first paragraph. Bioware doesn't owe women special anything, they owe every individual the same respect and inclusivity on the forum regardless on gender or sexuality. Secondly, why is it that people only ever mention women as if they are the only people that suffers in any way like some kind of exclusive group? It's far harder for gay or trans people in society, when was the last time a woman was beaten, sodomized with a beer bottle, murdered and set on fire because they were a woman? Women may suffer from far higher sexual threats but men suffer more threats of violence so the complete and utter disregard for men is not exactly appreciated in a conversation on equality.

 

I don't think anyone can disagree that there is gender discrimination still going on but for everyone to go on about women, women women gets old after a while. Men get discriminated against, gay people, trans people, asexual, black people, asian, mexicans. I bet a poor man gets treated worse in society that a rich woman. To get my point across better allow me to change what you quoted, I shall bold the changes.

 

One can be for equality in general without advocating for equality in a very general way. This type of criticism is like criticizing an LGBT movement for not focusing enough on domestic abuse in heterosexual marriages. There is a serious undercurrent of sexism in video game design and marketing. Addressing issues in marketing for women by featuring a female protagonist is not exclusive with, for example, increasing representation of gay and lesbian characters in video games generally or in marketing for, say, romances. All of these are worthy goals. 

[Spirit Keeper]

One can be for equality in general without advocating for equality in a very general way. This type of criticism is like criticizing an LGBT movement for not focusing enough on domestic abuse in heterosexual marriages. There is a serious undercurrent of sexism in video game design and marketing. Addressing issues in marketing for women by featuring a female protagonist is not exclusive with, for example, increasing representation of gay and lesbian characters in video games generally or in marketing for, say, romances. All of these are worthy goals. 

This is part of the talk me and Kaiser are having but I think it's something important to clarify my statement.

 

"I made my response is that thread for a similar reason. As a minority and someone who gets looked down upon in society due to my sexual orientation it's disheartening to see so many equality talks focus only on women instead of people as a whole. I think the comment you made was just the straw that broke the camels back, as it were.

 

As your said in your response, women make up half of the human population and sometimes it feels like people are disregarding people outside of the men/women equality argument because we are a minority so we aren't as important, you know?"