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Could we please see more of the Lady Inquisitor?


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#76
Allan Schumacher

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The comment is purely on the marketing of the protagonist. I can't really comment on how memorable (or not) he is until I finish the game.While I can't really fault your ideals, expecting someone to put their millions on the line for them, while offering no safety net (since any game can be perceived as a bad one) I can't really agree with

 

They're acting as a voice to make sure that it isn't forgotten.  By speaking out, it's a reminder that they are there and provides a degree of impetus to give it a try.


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#77
Allan Schumacher

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Can I ask you a hypothetical question ? Feel free not to answer if you think you may get into trouble. 

 

If Bioware and by extension EA were in a situation where they had to choose a fixed protagonist rather than have a character creator, which way would they go and why?

 

 

I don't know for certain.  I wouldn't be surprised if we still went with a man.  I'd love it if we went with a woman, however, because I like seeing where stuff like that goes.  I know I wouldn't be alone.  Would that be enough to make a compelling argument?  I don't know.

It'd suck if it wasn't very successful - I'd probably wonder "what if."  It'd be magnificent if it was successful though.  I'd love to have more solid data points that say "This is just fine."



#78
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Deleted a dozen posts.

 

Keep the personal squabbles out of the general forum.  Another reminder that the forum has an ignore function.  Use it.


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#79
Allan Schumacher

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That's what i'm saying, and why I don't feel that analogy works. The second person has ways of adding more sweets into their bowl without taking them from the other person's bowl.

 

I'm late to this party, but if there's some M&M dispensing machine and all the M&Ms go to one of the two parties, then yes one's benefit will *always* come at the expensive of the other.

 

 

So if we assume that there are X video games that will be made in the next 5 years that will have set human protagonists, if Y of them are men then X-Y of them are female.  The only way to increase female is to reduce male.

 

Unless you're suggesting that "people can just go out and make their own games."

At which point you're suggesting that the only way to improve representation is to literally make X larger.  I think this is an exceptionally unfortunate perspective.  Further, I do not mandate that someone cannot ask us for something that they'd like in a game and that they should just go make their own game.

 

It'd be like me telling someone who's upset with a lack of City Elf to just go out and create their own 3D RPG world with similar (but not identical) traits as our game so that they can have urban elves that are oppressed.  What's that, you think the plot of our game is poor?  Well just go make your own game with that plot!  It's not a particularly compelling argument.


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#80
Allan Schumacher

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Yes, horns. :)


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#81
Allan Schumacher

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Oh man she looks awesome.

 

She's pretty huge too.  You'll see she's almost a whole head taller than our favourite hands person.


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#82
Allan Schumacher

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You guys love teasing, don't you. :(

 

I can't speak for everyone, but on behalf of myself: yes, yes I do :whistle:


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#83
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Allan, you have just been waiting to make our day with this information, haven't you? :wub:

 

Yes :)


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#84
Allan Schumacher

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this is a fantasy game, if I can bang on someone in full armor with a sword with no ill-effects make-up can stay on in combat, also I don't see why making her have a stronger jawline, wider cheeks, etc... really makes her look more frontline, makes her look worse simply IMO


I think she looks much better, however, so it's one of those things that certain looks appeal to people differently.
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#85
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I wouldn't go that far now for one
 
"You are the only threat I see!"
 
*giant hole in the sky above*


That doesn't come across as incongruous to me, though.


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#86
Allan Schumacher

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Fair enough it did to me :P

 

To be fair I also have more context, and I shouldn't say much more because it may be considered a spoiler.



#87
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It's probably my fault. I mentioned Hawke awhile back, then it got in Diplo/Aggressive.

 

But anyhow, the point is, I think Dragon Age feels fitting playing a female. In game, that is. It's like whoever does the marketing barely plays these games or something. The writers, on the other hand, are far more open minded. So I don't think people should let the trailers drag them down too much. They need to be improved, but in the end, they aren't that important either.

 

I think it's more breaking down preconceived notions about the gamer population that may not be very accurate.  It's just when dealing with large budgets and the risk that comes with them, there's an inclination to be gunshy I think.



#88
Allan Schumacher

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Would that explain why we have seen closeups of Cassandra, Sera, Vivienne, Morrigan, and Leliana, but the only male we've seen in anything closer than a full-body pose has been Varric?

 

Not sure why those characters, in particular, received the focus.  So I can't definitively say yes or no to whether or not it was a conscious decision or if other factors led to it happening.



#89
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The part I found interesting was although they advertised her the % went down. Which means did it even matter that they advertised her, because people who are the most concerned will already know. 

 

ME3 is their biggest seller despite all sorts of issues, so I don't think you can say they did a poor job.

 

So the one that had a female Shepard focused trailer was the best selling one?


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#90
Allan Schumacher

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Despite the number of people playing her going down and considering it did not reach similiar sales levels of other games with fixed protags I'd say it made no difference. DA may well have a different split, but I've never seen any sorts of figures outside of the PS trophy list which don't track that.

 

Because your arguments thus far are focusing on data.  My example is to point out that I think you're being too cavalier with the data that supports your position, and dismissive of anything that doesn't, and that data has more than meets the eye in its correlations.  Never mind the arbitrary measuring stick of comparing it to fixed protagonists.  The multitude of confounding variables in this comparison is staggering.  I do not believe that Mass Effect would sell more with a fixed protagonist.

 

The reality is this: our game had a FemShep themed trailer, and by your own words ME3 was our best seller.  It gives a compelling argument that the trailer didn't hurt the sales.  It's a similar revelation we had with the inclusion of gay content.  "Interesting.... it didn't seem to have an effect."

 

Because this thread is simply about some people saying "hey show me" and breaking down the convention that "if you do this, it's bad for the game."

 

As you say: "it made no difference."  Maybe that means we can do stuff like this because it doesn't actually matter.  Because at its core this thread is a group of fans that say "we'd really appreciate it."  And I'm a pretty big supporter of fans going "Hey, I think this company is awesome" and the trickle effect it can have beyond the scope of standard marketing.


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#91
Allan Schumacher

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Well it's all theoretical since you need more data, like ME3's advertising budget vs other games etc. My belief if you advertise a strong concept and people flock around it. Now it might be true that the concept does not matter. But on the other hand, games that do well have a fairly standard message. Anything else I see as a risk, that's upto the individual publisher to take or not. 

 

Until someone tries it , we just won't know. But I found the fact that ME3 had less people playing FShep, despite her being an advertised option vs not being an advertised option interesting.

 

That to me would suggest that your female targeted advertising either failed, or attracted people who would rather play MShep. If the goal was to increase the % of female gamers to ME3. That did not happen.

 

Exactly.

 

Ben Kuchera did a breakdown to show that games that feature female protagonists tend to not get as much advertising money as others.

 

You're now using the same arguments he made to show that female protagonists are unfairly chastized by the industry, except now to validate that we shouldn't read too much into the data because they don't support your world view.

 

 

My point: there's a lot of confounding variables.  It's nice to see you recognize them, even if I disagree with the direction you are taking it in.

 

 

But until that actually translates into spending, then I see no reason to change position.

 

And this is an example of both privilege and institutionalized discrimination.  You're saying that there's no reason to change direction unless women show that they're willing to go and play things with other characters that don't interest them first.  It's a self-fulfilling prophecy (and has already come up several times in this thread before you decided to restate it).

 

 

Gaming used to be a family thing, then there was an epic video game crash.  Nintendo (in particular) did an excellent job of marketing "toys for boys" with their NES, and focused it as being a young male activity.  There's a host of other problematic, systemic issues.

 

But you're at the point of now saying "I'd rather they continue catering to me unless a lot of women decide to show that it's a good idea to do otherwise."  Because it comes at zero cost to you, and all the cost on the disenfranchised group.

 

 

It should be safe to conclude even though the sales went up the target advertising failed.

 

The game had a FemShep trailer and, by your own words, sales were unaffacted (in fact they went up).  It should be safe to conclude that the target advertising didn't have an impact.

 

Even IF it was "male fantasy," the fact remains, the sales still went up.

 

 

(on a final note, when you say ME3 is the best seller, what are you comparing against?)


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#92
Allan Schumacher

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I'm still torn between male and female Inquisitor for my first playrough. But the VA of Femquisitor sounds pretty good.

 

Coin flip.  You'll either be happy with the result, or not.  If not, pick the other one.  Paradox of Choice solved!


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#93
Allan Schumacher

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I guess I'm not licking enough boots?

 

Just as a note, stuff like this is probably probably the hazardous type of content you should look to avoid.


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#94
Allan Schumacher

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Is AWR only voicing the Elven Inquisitor? Or will she voice as human as well? I only ask because I saw a tweet of hers the other day saying she is voicing the Elven Inquisitor.

 

As far as I know the voices are available for all characters.  It's possible that Alix had heard something along the lines of "this is how Elves" speak or something along those lines during VO or something similar, or that "those that would like to play Elves will want this voice."  In any case I'm trying to say I could see how she was mistaken about the specifics.


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#95
Allan Schumacher

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Sorry I will clarify that.  I'm pretty sure each gender has two voices available, regardless of race.


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#96
Allan Schumacher

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Send me a PM tomorrow and I'll ask someone like Cameron if there's any plans.


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#97
Allan Schumacher

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Let me help you, trust me you can choose your gender. It's not as huge selling point as you think. DA:I have everything it needs.

 

A cast of unique and memorable characters will develop dynamic relationships both with you and with each other.

 

Freely explore a diverse, visually stunning, and immersive living world.

 

Completely control the appearance and abilities of your Inquisitor, party of followers, outposts, and strongholds. Decide the makeup of your Inquisition forces and your own style of combat.

Your actions and choices will shape a multitude of story outcomes along with the tangible, physical aspects of the world itself.

 

From what I read I still play DA:I eaven if I was forced to play Dwarf male warrior.

 

 

You are fundamentally not understanding the context of the post that you replied to.  Lady Nuggins is well aware of everything you just said.  The advocacy is for other people that don't know this.

 

 

I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't intentionally trolling, but I will suggest that if you aren't actually understanding the context of what is being said to pull yourself back and gain some perspective.  If I see much more of this, I'm going to get increasingly frustrated.

 

If you aren't willing to do this, stop posting in this thread.


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#98
Allan Schumacher

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How many people noticed that?

 

I sure noticed. And I approve.

 

But once again. I've never seen any complaints about that.

 

 

I don't consider it a good thing.  I'm replaying Fallout New Vegas and I love that some of the NCR soldiers are women with no explanation given.  There's no need to give one.  I also like that they complain about similar random and inane things as the men, like how they wished the posting had more time for leisure activity like gambling on the strip.


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#99
Allan Schumacher

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There's no need to give one to background characters whose combat ability never really enters the narrative and who exist in a somewhat goofy setting, yes.

 

There's no need to give one to any character.  Further, I wouldn't describe Fallout New Vegas as a "goofy setting" in any capacity.  Even with the retrofuture legacy spawning from the original games.


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#100
Allan Schumacher

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Fiction is full of badasses.

 

But often as not, fiction treats badasses as people who apparently spring from the ground fully formed and fully skilled. Characters who came out of the womb knowing how to beat down the bad guys. Who are badasses through sheer awesomeness. Particularly female characters.

 

It trivializes the qualities from which those skills flow from: courage, willpower, and discipline.

 

I'm not sure where you're going with this.

 

Having women that happen to be skilled fighters without having elaborate (or even any) explanation for why they are skilled fighters trivializes the qualities of courage, willpower, and discipline?


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