9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If you don't want me to reply to you, don't quote me. You are the one who decides to pick out my posts which aren't even directed at you and try to "refute" them. If you want to browbeat me into accepting your opinion and realize how wrong I am about large breasted women being sexualized in games, then give me an example of what I actually said I wanted to see: large breasted female game character dressed in a completely practica/professional, and non sexual way, not 1)Small breasted woman in modest clothing (I already said there were modest small breasted women in games) 2)Only somewhat sexualized large-ish chested female 3)Examples that are...you know...not actually from games.

No, you ask for examples from nobody in particular, I try to give them, then you say I'm wrong.

 

And you never specified in games only.

 

 

You know what I would like for once? As a woman with very large boobs, I would like it if even just once a large chested woman was portrayed in a non sexual way. Like as a person, dressed sensibly, a person with a personality and career and life beyond "dem boobies" every large breasted woman is sexualized(unless she's obese), all wear skintight catsuits or have gaping boob windows or wear battle bikinis and are usually implied or blatantly stated to be promiscuous. Being large chested doesn't suddenly make you a one dimensional sperm receptacle and being promiscuous doesn't cause you to grow breasts.

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

haha .  I think most women with larger chests would be upset at being called provocative etc just because they got dressed for work in the morning.

 

 

(Who is in the second picture btw? like I said, I have a tragically limited knowledge of anime)

Makina from Deadman Wonderland.

[Ryzaki]

 

No, you ask for examples from nobody in particular, I try to give them, then you say I'm wrong.

 

And you never specified in games only.

 

You know what I would like for once? As a woman with very large boobs, I would like it if even just once a large chested woman was portrayed in a non sexual way. Like as a person, dressed sensibly, a person with a personality and career and life beyond "dem boobies" every large breasted woman is sexualized(unless she's obese), all wear skintight catsuits or have gaping boob windows or wear battle bikinis and are usually implied or blatantly stated to be promiscuous. Being large chested doesn't suddenly make you a one dimensional sperm receptacle and being promiscuous doesn't cause you to grow breasts.

 

I definitely want to see an array of body types and I want breast size that make sense for each build, but I also want to see my fellow large chested girls treated with some dignity for a change.

 

 

As someone with large breasts I would very much like this.

 

Also seeing all those outfits with no support just makes me cringe. Especially when they jump. Do the designers have any idea how much that hurts?

[Nefla]

No, you ask for examples from nobody in particular, I try to give them, then you say I'm wrong.

I'm saying I disagree with your opinion. An opinion can't be wrong neither yours nor mine. You could think Bloodrayne isn't sexualized and that would be your opinion. You think a woman with cleavage showing, a tight shirt, and makeup in a combat situation is not sexualized in any way, that's fine. I disagree. Your examples do not fit my criteria, I showed you an example of an outfit that I would like to see on a large chested girl and you got mad.

 

In case you just didn't understand at all what I was trying to say: In video games, like the video game series who's forum we are currently posting on women with very large breasts are portrayed in a sexual way every single time. There is cleavage or a thigh slit all the way up to her hip, boob windows, micro mini skirts, or pants that go inside her ass-crack and her outfit is skin tight. Even if it makes no sense for her character she is still dressed like a teenage fantasy (DA2 Flemeth, Samara, EDI, etc...). These women are usually reduced to one dimensional stereotypes as well, again: the seductress, the femme fatale, the sexy____(nurse, scientist, cop, etc...) rather than a legitimate portrayal of those professions or giving her a fleshed out character and making her human. I'm tired of that. I hate it. I have large breasts and I'm not promiscuous or seductive or dumb or weak or one dimensional. I would like someone like me to be represented as a person and not an object.

 

Anyway, I am going to put you on mute and I advise you do the same to me, we are both making each other upset and I wouldn't want to get this thread closed needlessly.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'm saying I disagree with your opinion. An opinion can't be wrong neither yours nor mine. You could think Bloodrayne isn't sexualized and that would be your opinion. You think a woman with cleavage showing, a tight shirt, and makeup in a combat situation is not sexualized in any way, that's fine. I disagree.

 

In case you just didn't understand at all what I was trying to say: In video games, like the video game series who's forum we are currently posting on women with very large breasts are portrayed in a sexual way every single time. There is cleavage or a thigh slit all the way up to her hip, boob windows, micro mini skirts, or pants that go inside her ass-crack and her outfit is skin tight. Even if it makes no sense for her character she is still dressed like a teenage fantasy (DA2 Flemeth, Samara, EDI, etc...). These women are usually reduced to one dimensional stereotypes as well, again: the seductress, the femme fatale, the sexy____(nurse, scientist, cop, etc...) rather than a legitimate portrayal of those professions or giving her a fleshed out character and making her human. I'm tired of that. I hate it. I have large breasts and I'm not promiscuous or seductive or dumb or weak or one dimensional. I would like someone like me to be represented as a person and not an object.

As I said, I thought you mean in general since your post didn't say video games in it. My apologies. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

Also seeing all those outfits with no support just makes me cringe. Especially when they jump. Do the designers have any idea how much that hurts?

 

Thinking about this too hard puts all of Isabela's roguish backflipping in an entirely new perspective.   ow.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I'm saying I disagree with your opinion. An opinion can't be wrong neither yours nor mine. You could think Bloodrayne isn't sexualized and that would be your opinion. You think a woman with cleavage showing, a tight shirt, and makeup in a combat situation is not sexualized in any way, that's fine. I disagree.

 

In case you just didn't understand at all what I was trying to say: In video games, like the video game series who's forum we are currently posting on women with very large breasts are portrayed in a sexual way every single time. There is cleavage or a thigh slit all the way up to her hip, boob windows, micro mini skirts, or pants that go inside her ass-crack and her outfit is skin tight. Even if it makes no sense for her character she is still dressed like a teenage fantasy (DA2 Flemeth, Samara, EDI, etc...). These women are usually reduced to one dimensional stereotypes as well, again: the seductress, the femme fatale, the sexy____(nurse, scientist, cop, etc...) rather than a legitimate portrayal of those professions or giving her a fleshed out character and making her human. I'm tired of that. I hate it. I have large breasts and I'm not promiscuous or seductive or dumb or weak or one dimensional. I would like someone like me to be represented as a person and not an object.

It's probably more the other way round. The person was GIVEN large ****** to sex her up.

This is a video game after all, no one "happens" to have pendulous mamaries by coincidence. Especially in Bioware's case, where they like to use the exact same body/underwear model for the entire universe.

 

For isabella for example, the modellers made a Hooters outfit for her, that she can't change out of, to disguise that fact. That's what they meant by the "iconic" excuse.

 

I'm an A cup and it's the same reason I never see breast sizes more similar to mine.

 

Even if it is the same button, what it does come down to, for me at least, is women can get in trouble for having that much chest showing (like Nefla said, if she went to work that way she would get in trouble, vs. the dude, with the shirt buttoned just as much being considered totally fine). A woman doing that might be considered 'distracting to her coworkers' or 'provacative' or 'looking for attention'.  Also, by doing that, often authors are conveying something about the character; in the case of visible cleavage, most often its that a character is there for sex appeal and maybe not much else; or what I said before, provocative and looking for attention. Morrigans outfit contributes to the perception of her as a 'seductress', Isabela's as a...couple different words I'm not going to say, Jack's as 'easy', etc etc. That may not be the case in the pic you showed (and I'm sorry idk what anime that is from, DBZ and Naruto are the extent of my knowledge there haha ) but often times that is strongly implied by any womans chest showing.

And really, for combat especially, women's chest shouldn't show any more then mens. So...I guess the Qunari are still up in the air a bit? But any female Qunari who goes around half shirtless better have more support in the chest area then say...Morrigan or Isabela seemed to have. Lack of gravity indeed.

Ok this is the rule when it comes to male and female attire, women show a lot more skin than men, until- you reach nipples, then a complete 180 degree turn happens on the graph. like a bell curve but more extreme.

[Ryzaki]

Thinking about this too hard puts all of Isabela's roguish backflipping in an entirely new perspective.   ow.

 

XD could be worst. She could be this chick:

 

And this chick

 

 

from here:

http://www.gamefront...istory-gallery/

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Silicon is really firm though?

[Ryzaki]

lmao

 

Their description for Isabela cracked me up "Isabela is actually an exceptionally well written character. But her designer really needs to check out non augmented bodies from time to time. Because those… aren’t breasts."

[Dutchess]

 

There is cleavage or a thigh slit all the way up to her hip, boob windows, micro mini skirts, or pants that go inside her ass-crack and her outfit is skin tight. Even if it makes no sense for her character she is still dressed like a teenage fantasy (DA2 Flemeth, Samara, EDI, etc...). These women are usually reduced to one dimensional stereotypes as well, again: the seductress, the femme fatale, the sexy____(nurse, scientist, cop, etc...) rather than a legitimate portrayal of those professions or giving her a fleshed out character and making her human. I'm tired of that. I hate it. I have large breasts and I'm not promiscuous or seductive or dumb or weak or one dimensional. I would like someone like me to be represented as a person and not an object.

 

 

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 

Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 

Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

Meh, I really don't see much wrong with making a formidable warrior larger and more masculine than the average woman. In fact, if Cassandra was 10 feet tall I would have less problem with her smashing down castle gates.

[karushna5]

I think the line between sexy and sexualized is thin indeed and can change with the audience. Some opinion can indeed be wrong but what constitutes it for a person is not.

I think Hinata's pictures are not sexualized at all. I think they are feminized to a degree that we may find unappealing, but they are not sexualized. Lipstick and a touch of cleavage is not sexualized. It is slightly sexy, and the lipstick is feminization of a character to an extent we may or may not find realistic. But to call them sexualized seems a bit far.

Sexy can be an intense stare, and a come hither look. Sexualized is looking them up and down and just to be portrayed that way for arrousal or sexual objectification. And feminization is being portrayed as "girly" or more differently for a woman than may meet the occaison. Long dresses and make up are not usually sexualized OR sexy. Feminization is seeing your gender presentation on characters normally associated with the masculine.

Women are rarely portrayed often as serious soldiers. For you and me this is an occaison to enjoy because Masculine women FINALLY are showing up. But many women like feminization because that is who they are. This is dispared by straight guys as dumb, empty, incapable and upity. So of course, feminine women want capable strong female characters, like soldiers and knights, to also be feminine. To show being feminine can be capable, effective, and interesting.

For us, we feel it is being taken away, for them it is an avenue to show their gender presentation, feminine, in a more sympathetic light where they can be the heroes.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Ok this is the rule when it comes to male and female attire, women show a lot more skin than men, until- you reach nipples, then a complete 180 degree turn happens on the graph. like a bell curve but more extreme.

Spoiler

 

I love Jack but...her outfit is such a perfectly hilarious example of this entire conversation. You can show everything above her leather line and everything below.

 

The other problem is that men being shirtless isn't seen as a sign that they are provocative or looking for attention; it doesn't inherently sexualize their character. No one was ****-shaming the Qunari warriors in DA2, ya know?

[Dutchess]

Meh, I really don't see much wrong with making a formidable warrior larger and more masculine than the average woman. In fact, if Cassandra was 10 feet tall I would have less problem with her smashing down castle gates.

 

I'm more talking about the face here. I'm 100% on board with making female warriors more muscular and broader in that dimension.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

I think it's because the angular features tend to make the character look more serious while more rounded faces do not. Same kind of reason as why characters in cartoons with thinner eyes are usually more serious looking while those with rounder, 'puppy' eyes tend to be seen as more innocent.

 

Personally I like how they made Leliana have the rounded eyes and gentle face despite her being very similar to Cassandra in being one of Justinia's two hands to act as a contradiction to the norm. 

[aTigerslunch]

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 

Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

I do have someone that I know, whom fits this bill, she is "babyfaced" and is the one that has to be in charge. She makes sure, rudely, that she is to be taken seriously as well. Of course, others tend to hate her cause of her attitude being very mean/rude/horrible/controlling. It is possible, now to present that in a game isnt too apperent.

 

There is an example of a lady in GI Joe, in original series she seemed to be strong type bit older and someone to take seriously, Scarlet. The new series of GI Joe toons changed her to some teenage looking kid, which I cant seem to respect cause I grew up with the original, that I did respect. I thought she was beautiful in the original, and now too kiddish in new ones which I oppose.

[Mes]

As someone with large breasts I would very much like this.

 

Also seeing all those outfits with no support just makes me cringe. Especially when they jump. Do the designers have any idea how much that hurts?

 

Those designers have probably never seen real boobs up close.

 

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 

Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

 

Agreed with all of this.

 

It's SO easy for them to create male characters of any and all combinations of looks and personalities... But nearly all women end up being caricatures rather than fleshed out people. Such a shame.

 

Poor devs/writers... women must be so so challenging...   

[Tayah]

Yeah. I want her at least a head taller than human males.

 

 

I never said all women should have big boobs(in case  was at me). 

 

But thanks for agreeing.

No, It ( ) wasn't at you or anyone in particular just at the idea that big boobs equals sexy all the time regardless of a person's actual build/size. Like the depiction of nearly every female comic character in marvel and DC. Even as a kid watching the x-men series (cartoon) I used to wonder how Rogue, Jean Grey and Storm found clothes to fit because they were so stacked up top and thin waisted and legs with curvy butts it was kinda ridiculous.    

 

To me women come in a lot more shapes and sizes than just big boobs and setting one model for female attractiveness as many types of media do is just asking for trouble since very few people will ever actually match that narrow image which is one reason I very much like the idea of seeing different types of women in DAI and especially why I like the idea of a female qunari who does tower over the other races and is built differently to other females.

 

I definitely agree with you Hinata that she should be at least a head taller than human males and I'd be quite happy if she were taller still 

 

Oh, and your welcome 

 

I'm so with you there. I've got this personal theory that the only people obsessed with on-screen enormous boobs (whether it's in movies or video games or anime) are people who have never seen large boobs in real life!!!

 

NOT that there is anything wrong with any real life person's large boobs. It's just this obsession with boobs OF ANY KIND is just bizarre.

 

Totally agree with you Mes.

[Mes]

 

The other problem is that men being shirtless isn't seen as a sign that they are provocative or looking for attention; it doesn't inherently sexualize their character. No one was ****-shaming the Qunari warriors in DA2, ya know?

 

True. These days I'm thinking that's more in the way men are presented rather than the fact that they are shirtless.

 

For instance shirtless men in photos or what have you tend to adopt a strong, aggressive, in-control type of pose. Shirtless women? Are all melting seductively over furniture, or touching themselves with their tongues hanging out, or generally looking like inflatable dolls ready for the taking.

 

Which is a crying shame. Shirtless women can look just as strong and interesting as shirtless men. I recently saw just such a picture of Pink. Boobs out, shoulders back, confident smile. Not sexualized. 

[Ryzaki]

Those designers have probably never seen real boobs up close.

 

Ice cold XD

 

I can understand why the devs didn't do shirtless female (Yay screaming moral guardians. You can saw someone's leg off but ra forbid you see a nipple and an AO rating is pretty much a death sentence for a non hentai game.) but Jack's leather strap is dumb it looks dumb it's just. So much no. Also Jack aboard the Quarian fleet was facepalm inducing. Shep's crew all should've worn armor. You can have armor and have it personalized.

[Dutchess]

Ice cold XD

 

I can understand why the devs didn't do shirtless female (Yay screaming moral guardians. You can saw someone's leg off but ra forbid you see a nipple and an AO rating is pretty much a death sentence for a non hentai game.) but Jack's leather strap is dumb it looks dumb it's just. So much no. Also Jack aboard the Quarian fleet was facepalm inducing. Shep's crew all should've worn armor. You can have armor and have it personalized.

 

Not a "woman" in the literal sense, but...

 

[oceanicsurvivor]

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 

 

I always wished they had handled Aveline a bit differently. I had no problem with her looks; she had strong features sure, but she was hardly unfeminine looking imo. While I'm not sure/almost positive it wasn't the intention, the Isabela/Aveline friendship is really great not just because of how different and great their dialogue can be. But the growth, beyond just being really well written showed two very different views on what it meant to be feminine. Aveline spent time being derogatory to Isabela for being who she was and expressing her sexuality while Isabela shamed Aveline for not adhering to traditional ideas of femininity. And by the end, they had sorta realized that they were both on the same side, and that there was more then one way to be an awesome ass kicking lady. If that had beenBiowares intention, I wish by the third act they had changed some of Aveline/Isabelas language towards each other. I know that by then it was 'affectionate', but still.

 

Now, would it be awesome to see someone as 'traditionally' feminine as Leliana in full plate metal? Yes, absolutely! (I imagine Evangline from Asunder is like this actually but anyways...). There should definitely be a greater diversity of looks and types of beauty reflected throughout the game, and certainly not every female warrior needs to be or should be Aveline. Cass strikes me as different thus far, but I certainly see/understand your concern.

 

I can understand why the devs didn't do shirtless female (Yay screaming moral guardians. You can saw someone's leg off but ra forbid you see a nipple and an AO rating is pretty much a death sentence for a non hentai game.)

 

Frankly, I never understood how the Witcher 2 got away with what they got away with.

[Ryzaki]

You should've posted broodmother Dutchess Plenty of nipples there.

 

@Oceanic: It's still uncensored in the console versions?

[oceanicsurvivor]

You should've posted broodmother Dutchess Plenty of nipples there.

 

@Oceanic: It's still uncensored in the console versions?

 

I don't think my jaw has ever hit the floor faster then when I saw Triss in that army tent.

 

Yeah, not censored.

 

The broodmother is a baffling contradiction. You literally have to weigh as much as an elephant before your breasts just stop being sexual, and then apparently you can have however many you want just flying around. It's an interesting line that's been drawn...