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[Ryzaki]

I don't think my jaw has ever hit the floor faster then when I saw Triss in that army tent.

 

Yeah, not censored.

 

lol

 

Weird. Then again didn't EA get away with a dick shot? In the Da Vinci game I think. I remember something of the effect.

[karushna5]

Though it's not exactly the same as an oversexualized stereotype, Bioware's "nonsexy" ladies are being stereotyped as well. Aveline (and now Cassandra) is the "strong female character", a tough warrior while also being a woman. How can she look? Well, obviously not like Isabela. Aveline is Brienne of Tarth, a woman who looks more like a man and gets called "lady man hands" by the sexy character, because she has a more masculine character. After all, how could a beautiful woman be so devoted to her job and not have sex in four years? 
Cassandra is not made to look ugly, exactly, but still more masculine and she looks very stern to match her (what seems to me) hostile personality. I know I already brought this up several pages ago and again this was refuted as the idea behind her design was power and apparently that has to be shown through angular facial features? How does that work? Are people with sharp facial features more often in a leadership position? Do babyfaces have no chance to be taken seriously? I can understand the need to create a match between a character's personality and her looks (I would have understood Isabela showing some cleavage, but the large breasts, lots of cleavage, no pants and thigh-high boots combination meant it was way over-the-top), but it's easy to fall into stereotypes here, which Bioware does.

That said, I really dont feel like a woman who "looks like a man" and is a strong warrior is any more a bad stereotype to have than any other. In fact this "stereotype" is just so that some women can actually not be pretty. They want this to try to fit. No one is saying you cant be pretty and be powerful, Ashley, Liara, The new Flemeth, Morrigan if no one else, Leliana. There are many characters with baby faces. From here it sounds like you wish Aveline and Cassandra were more feminine, and this seems dangerous territory sense. Masculine women have to have some characters and I wouldnt call it harmful in any way OR a bad stereotype that masculine women have masculine jobs or masculine personalities.

This post reminds me a bit of the lesbian community at times. Femmes(feminine lesbian) are more often portrayed in the media because many people worry that showing a lesbian Butch would be bad stereotyping. So, often times Butch women are told they are a bad stereotype. We have to have SOME type, and with feminine mages(Wynne, morigan, Vivienne, Velanna Merrill who I may add were sometimes unduly sexualized when they should have been feminized) and the occaisonal feminized Rogue (Leliana) I think having masculine warriors is not necessarily a bad stereotype.

I do think feminine warriors and masculine mages should be a thing. (Man I already love masculine mage lady and. I just thought of her) But one step at a time, eh?

[Mes]

Not a "woman" in the literal sense, but...

 

 

Bwahaha... Don't get me started on THAT!!

 

Can't decide what I have more of a problem with - the fact that apparently all desire demons adopt a female form (because no one in Thedas is ever attracted to males, ever, no, NO, only womenz)... or that the devs' favorite explanation for this is "lack of resources"??!!

[oceanicsurvivor]

lol

 

Weird. Then again didn't EA get away with a dick shot? In the Da Vinci game I think. I remember something of the effect.

I think the Devil in Dante's Inferno? (I haven't played that myself, I think it was mentioned in another thread). I hadn't even heard of the Da Vinci games?

 

The Witcher though got away with a lot the more I think about it...probably more then it should have in many ways. Next game will be interesting...larger audience and all...

 

anyways, Dragon Age!

 

This post reminds me a bit of the lesbian community at times. Femmes(feminine lesbian) are more often portrayed in the media because many people worry that showing a lesbian Butch would be bad stereotyping. So, often times Butch women are told they are a bad stereotype. We have to have SOME type, and with feminine mages(Wynne, morigan, Vivienne, Velanna Merrill who I may add were sometimes unduly sexualized when they should have been feminized) and the occaisonal feminized Rogue (Leliana) I think having masculine warriors is not necessarily a bad stereotype.

I do think feminine warriors and masculine mages should be a thing. (Man I already love masculine mage lady and. I just thought of her) But one step at a time, eh?

I so want to see Bioware do this sometime. I'm not of the opinion that Cass falls under that umbrella, but I'm afraid that she is being perceived that way/will be simply because she has short hair, a sword, and a confident attitude.

 

A masculine lady mage would be amazing.

 

 

Can't decide what I have more of a problem with - the fact that apparently all desire demons adopt a female form (because no one in Thedas is ever attracted to males, ever, no, NO, only womenz)... or that the devs' favorite explanation for this is "lack of resources"??!!

 

You should totally believe the devs; clearly they ran out of resources before they could finish her shirt!

[aTigerslunch]

That said, I really dont feel like a woman who "looks like a man" and is a strong warrior is any more a bad stereotype to have than any other. In fact this "stereotype" is just so that some women can actually not be pretty. They want this to try to fit. No one is saying you cant be pretty and be powerful, Ashley, Liara, The new Flemeth, Morrigan if no one else, Leliana. There are many characters with baby faces. From here it sounds like you wish Aveline and Cassandra were more feminine, and this seems dangerous territory sense. Masculine women have to have some characters and I wouldnt call it harmful in any way OR a bad stereotype that masculine women have masculine jobs or masculine personalities.

This post reminds me a bit of the lesbian community at times. Femmes(feminine lesbian) are more often portrayed in the media because many people worry that showing a lesbian Butch would be bad stereotyping. So, often times Butch women are told they are a bad stereotype. We have to have SOME type, and with feminine mages(Wynne, morigan, Vivienne, Velanna Merrill who I may add were sometimes unduly sexualized when they should have been feminized) and the occaisonal feminized Rogue (Leliana) I think having masculine warriors is not necessarily a bad stereotype.

I do think feminine warriors and masculine mages should be a thing. (Man I already love masculine mage lady and. I just thought of her) But one step at a time, eh?

I personally know a couple "butch" lesbian as it were. They are not ugly to me at all but they are also not what media portrays as you mentioned. I guess I look at who they are more than what they are instead. Ive met at least one lady that probably could be a porn star and be fugly cause of her attitude, and I wasnt alone in that assumption.

[Tayah]

I think it's because the angular features tend to make the character look more serious while more rounded faces do not. Same kind of reason as why characters in cartoons with thinner eyes are usually more serious looking while those with rounder, 'puppy' eyes tend to be seen as more innocent.

 

Personally I like how they made Leliana have the rounded eyes and gentle face despite her being very similar to Cassandra in being one of Justinia's two hands to act as a contradiction to the norm. 

Yeah I like this difference as well because it shows two different faces that are each beautiful and interesting to me in different ways. 

 

 

I always wished they had handled Aveline a bit differently. I had no problem with her looks; she had strong features sure, but she was hardly unfeminine looking imo. While I'm not sure/almost positive it wasn't the intention, the Isabela/Aveline friendship is really great not just because of how different and great their dialogue can be. But the growth, beyond just being really well written showed two very different views on what it meant to be feminine. Aveline spent time being derogatory to Isabela for being who she was and expressing her sexuality while Isabela shamed Aveline for not adhering to traditional ideas of femininity. And by the end, they had sorta realized that they were both on the same side, and that there was more then one way to be an awesome ass kicking lady. If that had beenBiowares intention, I wish by the third act they had changed some of Aveline/Isabelas language towards each other. I know that by then it was 'affectionate', but still.

 

Now, would it be awesome to see someone as 'traditionally' feminine as Leliana in full plate metal? Yes, absolutely! (I imagine Evangline from Asunder is like this actually but anyways...). There should definitely be a greater diversity of looks and types of beauty reflected throughout the game, and certainly not every female warrior needs to be or should be Aveline. Cass strikes me as different thus far, but I certainly see/understand your concern.

So much this! I enjoyed the banter and friendship that developed between Aveline and Isabela and their eventual discovery that they were actually on the same side in many ways. I think greater diversity in portraying women is important and it would be nice to see a female warrior who isn't overly masculine and a female mage who might be more masculine so I'm with Karushna5 and Oceanicsurvivor on this one too  

[Mes]

 

So much this! I enjoyed the banter and friendship that developed between Aveline and Isabela and their eventual discovery that they were actually on the same side in many ways. I think greater diversity in portraying women is important and it would be nice to see a female warrior who isn't overly masculine and a female mage who might be more masculine so I'm with Karushna5 and Oceanicsurvivor on this one too  

 

Can you imagine two male companions having that kind of growth in their relationship, though? One "butch" one and one "sexy" one eventually discovering they are on the same side... Kinda sounds silly, when it's the other sex doing it.

 

I dunno. I do appreciate that they did a cool thing with Aveline and Isabela, but... I'm also kinda tired of seeing women judge one another in the first place. 

[Ryzaki]

I think the Devil in Dante's Inferno? (I haven't played that myself, I think it was mentioned in another thread). I hadn't even heard of the Da Vinci games?

 

The Witcher though got away with a lot the more I think about it...probably more then it should have in many ways. Next game will be interesting...larger audience and all...

 

anyways, Dragon Age!

 

I so want to see Bioware do this sometime. I'm not of the opinion that Cass falls under that umbrella, but I'm afraid that she is being perceived that way/will be simply because she has short hair, a sword, and a confident attitude.

 

A masculine lady mage would be amazing.

 

 

You should totally believe the devs; clearly they ran out of resources before they could finish her shirt!

 

Yah I think that's what it is.

 

Yeah i probably won't touch a CD Projeckt game til I can play female so I'll have to hear about it from other people
 

[Dutchess]

You should've posted broodmother Dutchess Plenty of nipples there.

 

@Oceanic: It's still uncensored in the console versions?

 

My PC version of TW2 is not censored either?

 

That said, I really dont feel like a woman who "looks like a man" and is a strong warrior is any more a bad stereotype to have than any other. In fact this "stereotype" is just so that some women can actually not be pretty. They want this to try to fit. No one is saying you cant be pretty and be powerful, Ashley, Liara, The new Flemeth, Morrigan if no one else, Leliana. There are many characters with baby faces. From here it sounds like you wish Aveline and Cassandra were more feminine, and this seems dangerous territory sense. Masculine women have to have some characters and I wouldnt call it harmful in any way OR a bad stereotype that masculine women have masculine jobs or masculine personalities.

This post reminds me a bit of the lesbian community at times. Femmes(feminine lesbian) are more often portrayed in the media because many people worry that showing a lesbian Butch would be bad stereotyping. So, often times Butch women are told they are a bad stereotype. We have to have SOME type, and with feminine mages(Wynne, morigan, Vivienne, Velanna Merrill who I may add were sometimes unduly sexualized when they should have been feminized) and the occaisonal feminized Rogue (Leliana) I think having masculine warriors is not necessarily a bad stereotype.

I do think feminine warriors and masculine mages should be a thing. (Man I already love masculine mage lady and. I just thought of her) But one step at a time, eh?

 

I do not mean to argue for only feminine women in games or feminine warriors. Diversity is good and I do like what they did with Aveline. It's more that I feel the whole "it suits the character" argument on which it is based is not very strong and ends up in stereotypes. There are many stereotypes and to have a character more or less fit in one isn't inherently bad, but I think it is something that should be kept and mind. The way someone looks influences other people's perceptions (for instance, a babyface is perceived as more innocent and trustworthy) but it doesn't mean those perceptions are truly accurate. You can have b*tchy ugly women and b*tchy beauties. Same with every other personality trait. 

Bioware has a limited number of companions to work with, so in a way it is understandable there might be less room to avoid all stereotypes. But I feel the ideas behind Aveline's looks and Cassandra's redesign (she had a far softer, rounder face in DA2) is pretty similar, so then I feel it becomes more fair to say "hey, a female warrior doesn't need to have those more masculine traits". 

 

Again, I don't have anything against the inclusion of "butch" women. All the better if different looks are being explored.  But as you say, I think it would be ideal if they diverted from the stereotypes and went for that awesome, "butch" mage.

[Ryzaki]

Well I expected the PC version to get away with it but hum I guess bare chest is fine. Now I'm thinking about it there was frontal nudity in Heavy Rain as well. I guess the ESRB wasn't as strict about that as I originally thought.

[oceanicsurvivor]

Yah I think that's what it is.

 

Yeah i probably won't touch a CD Projeckt game til I can play female so I'll have to hear about it from other people
 

 

Good for you! I, sadly, do not share your willpower. (Mainly I'm a sucker for awesome outfits...once I saw all the vests I could dress Geralt in I...flew out the door to the nearest Gamestop )

Well I expected the PC version to get away with it but hum I guess bare chest is fine. Now I'm thinking about it there was frontal nudity in Heavy Rain as well. I guess the ESRB wasn't as strict about that as I originally thought.

It was not just her chest. No sir.

I don't remember any thing like that in Heavy Rain? But I might be repressing everything about that game...so...maybe?

 

Can you imagine two male companions having that kind of growth in their relationship, though? One "butch" one and one "sexy" one eventually discovering they are on the same side... Kinda sounds silly, when it's the other sex doing it.

 

I dunno. I do appreciate that they did a cool thing with Aveline and Isabela, but... I'm also kinda tired of seeing women judge one another in the first place.

 

If they ever did the male version of the Isabela/Aveline friendship...I sincerely hope its done as a musical. (Can you imagine a Bioware musical? ...ok its offiically getting late... )

 

But you're right, the animosity over ones presentation or amount of sex having/not having is hardly a new or revelatory storyline. Given the limited number of female companions this time around, I'm very...nervous and intrigued to see the dynamics Bioware chooses to give us.

[Ryzaki]

Bwahaha I'm not as strong willed as you think. I got 5 minutes into Witcher 2 (that damn dragon) and went nope. Playing generic ugly white dude (with paraphrasing even WORSE than ME's I picked some neutral response and got a "**** you" coming out of Geralt's mouth) was bad enough I'd be damned if I was playing ugly white dude with combat that made me wanna scream.

 

So went nope and uninstalled. All that great story means diddly squat if I can't tolerate the game long enough to reach it.

[Tayah]

Can you imagine two male companions having that kind of growth in their relationship, though? One "butch" one and one "sexy" one eventually discovering they are on the same side... Kinda sounds silly, when it's the other sex doing it.

 

I dunno. I do appreciate that they did a cool thing with Aveline and Isabela, but... I'm also kinda tired of seeing women judge one another in the first place. 

Yeah I am kinda tired of that too, I think that the fact Aveline and Isabela both ended up accepting and appreciating both themselves and each other for exactly who they were was the thing I liked about the growth in their relationship and characters. 

 

My PC version of TW2 is not censored either?

 

 

I do not mean to argue for only feminine women in games or feminine warriors. Diversity is good and I do like what they did with Aveline. It's more that I feel the whole "it suits the character" argument on which it is based is not very strong and ends up in stereotypes. There are many stereotypes and to have a character more or less fit in one isn't inherently bad, but I think it is something that should be kept and mind. The way someone looks influences other people's perceptions (for instance, a babyface is perceived as more innocent and trustworthy) but it doesn't mean those perceptions are truly accurate. You can have b*tchy ugly women and b*tchy beauties. Same with every other personality trait. 

 

Bioware has a limited number of companions to work with, so in a way it is understandable there might be less room to avoid all stereotypes. But I feel the ideas behind Aveline's looks and Cassandra's redesign (she had a far softer, rounder face in DA2) is pretty similar, so then I feel it becomes more fair to say "hey, a female warrior doesn't need to have those more masculine traits". 

 

Again, I don't have anything against the inclusion of "butch" women. All the better if different looks are being explored.  But as you say, I think it would be ideal if they diverted from the stereotypes and went for that awesome, "butch" mage.

Yes and the fact that there are only 3 female companions compared to six male companions means there's even less room to explore different looks and personalities and dynamics between them so I'm a little nervous about that  . 

[Ryzaki]

Good for you! I, sadly, do not share your willpower. (Mainly I'm a sucker for awesome outfits...once I saw all the vests I could dress Geralt in I...flew out the door to the nearest Gamestop )

It was not just her chest. No sir.

I don't remember any thing like that in Heavy Rain? But I might be repressing everything about that game...so...maybe?

 

 

If they ever did the male version of the Isabela/Aveline friendship...I sincerely hope its done as a musical. (Can you imagine a Bioware musical? ...ok its offiically getting late... )

 

But you're right, the animosity over ones presentation or amount of sex having/not having is hardly a new or revelatory storyline. Given the limited number of female companions this time around, I'm very...nervous and intrigued to see the dynamics Bioware chooses to give us.

 

I watched a let's play on youtube and they had owls on her chest so I'm pretty sure it showed XD (and the dude butt was censored with buns. I lol'd hard at that).

[oceanicsurvivor]

I watched a let's play on youtube and they had owls on her chest so I'm pretty sure it showed XD (and the dude butt was censored with buns. I lol'd hard at that).

Oh, it was defintely her chest. Only it wasn't just her chest.

 

edit: do you mean Heavy Rain?

[Ryzaki]

Oh, it was defintely her chest. Only it wasn't just her chest.

 

So games can get away with full frontal.

 

...Then what's with Jack's dumb strap?

 

Edit: Yeah I meant heavy rain XD

[oceanicsurvivor]

So games can get away with full frontal.

 

...Then what's with Jack's dumb strap?

 

Its for her weapons?

[Mes]

Okay something that's just popped out at me: Jack, Isabela, Morrigan - ladies wearing the most revealing clothing, who are also the easiest to sleep with in their respective games. In fact they're pretty much known for having a "bang now, ask questions later" attitude. Implying that... because a woman is showing skin, she is immediately after sex? And we all know the problems that assumption causes in real life... 

 

I don't see Varric and his chest hair sleeping around!

[Ryzaki]

Its for her weapons?

 

...what the hell could fit in there? A dart?

 

Agreed Mes sexy clothing does not woman who wants to sleep with you make.  (I would lol hard if we got a very attractive scantily clad companion in a happy relationship who's reaction to you flirting with her was smiles and flirting back but if you insisted on a relationship she got pissed off and reminded you she was in a relationship).

 

I mean you can be flirty and not want to take it further.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah I like this difference as well because it shows two different faces that are each beautiful and interesting to me in different ways. 

Exactly. And not only that, but as I said they do essentially the same thing: serve as the Divine's hands aka top agents. 

 

 

Yah I think that's what it is.

 

Yeah i probably won't touch a CD Projeckt game til I can play female so I'll have to hear about it from other people
 

Cyberpunk 2077 will possibly be the first game I buy from them since I believe you can choose gender and customize them. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Its for her weapons?

She wields a shotgun and pistol. Neither go on your back. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

...what the hell could fit in there? A dart?

 

Agreed Mes sexy clothing does not woman who wants to sleep with you make.  (I would lol hard if we got a very attractive scantily clad companion in a happy relationship who's reaction to you flirting with her was smiles and flirting back but if you insisted on a relationship she got pissed off and reminded you she was in a relationship).

 

I mean you can be flirty and not want to take it further.

That character would get an alarming amount of backlash   so so so much backlash.

 

She wields a shotgun and pistol. Neither go on your back. 

Maybe she dreamed of taking up assault rifling one day? YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

[Dutchess]

Exactly. And not only that, but as I said they do essentially the same thing: serve as the Divine's hands aka top agents. 

 

 

Cyberpunk 2077 will possibly be the first game I buy from them since I believe you can choose gender and customize them. 

 

This is off topic, but I actually love the Witcher games. I found them to be very well written with interesting characters. If I have the option I tend to play as a female character, but I am not opposed to playing a game with a guy. I can still secretly swoon behind my screen at this:

 

 

 Looks a lot better than Solas, IMO.

[Ryzaki]

That character would get an alarming amount of backlash   so so so much backlash.

 

Maybe she dreamed of taking up assault rifling one day? YOU DON'T KNOW.

 

 

It'd be beautiful. So much butthurt.

 

 

Exactly. And not only that, but as I said they do essentially the same thing: serve as the Divine's hands aka top agents. 

 

 

Cyberpunk 2077 will possibly be the first game I buy from them since I believe you can choose gender and customize them. 

 

Have they given an timeframe? I hear a lot of really good things about CD Projeckt's writing.

[Mes]

 

snip

 

 Looks a lot better than Solas, IMO.

 

I vote him for secret Inquisition companion.