9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Have they given an timeframe? I hear a lot of really good things about CD Projeckt's writing.

They have said "When it's ready". 

[Ryzaki]

They have said "When it's ready". 

 

While that answer feels me with sorrow it's a good answer.

 

Ah well I'll have Inquisition to tide me over in the meantime

[aTigerslunch]

I didnt care for Witcher, and wont bother with the third even though it looks artistically great. The second one sold me on views of the world, but I didnt like it, never finished it and got rid of it.

 

Cyberpunk sounds quite awesome.   Shadowrun Returns with its new adventure was really good, in the first there was no relationship hints of any sort. The new one, forgot the name offhand could allow you to say you were intimate with the leader (female leader), regardless if male or female character.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Cyberpunk sounds quite awesome.   Shadowrun Returns with its new adventure was really good, in the first there was no relationship hints of any sort. The new one, forgot the name offhand could allow you to say you were intimate with the leader (female leader), regardless if male or female character.

I'll be getting it if for no other reason than I am a sucker for the Cyberpunk genre. I blame the Deus Ex and Ghost In The Shell series.

[Ryzaki]

Heh totally ot but this whole thread got me serious nostalgia for me first picking up Jade Empire (I was used to Jrpgs back then) realizing I could make a female character and make decisions and pick dialogue options? God I was so amazed and pretty much became a hound for any other similar games. And it was a completely random spurge of the moment purchase. I just thought Ming looked cute. XD

[Ajna]

I have my eye on Cyberpunk 2077 too, that would be right up my alley...

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

 

I don't see Varric and his chest hair sleeping around!

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence...

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Harkening back a few pages, the difference between sexy and sexualized is the difference between subject and object.  A sexual subject, you know, with intersubjectivity, the "I see you, you see me," is sexy, with its own desires, wants, and intentionality.  A sexual object is the passive or unknowing target of sexual intentions or desires.  A sexual object either has no intentional states of its own or is treated as though it did not.  In terms of its essential nature, a sexual object (a sexualized character) is not significantly different from a candy bar, a martini, a purse, a car, or any other object meant for consumption or purchase.  This application of an appetitive, consumptive mindset to people or characters (particularly women and female characters) disturbs me extremely.  People (men, men other than myself) react with outrage when women do not behave as valid objects of consumptive sexual desire, and they even react with outrage when fictional women do not behave this way for their fictional avatars of male privilege.  I don't really understand this.  More relevant to the discussion, however, I wish that more female characters had more than two modes of existence: sexy or sexualized.  There's nothing wrong with sexy, but no group is just that, and no person is always that.

[Nefla]

Harkening back a few pages, the difference between sexy and sexualized is the difference between subject and object.  A sexual subject, you know, with intersubjectivity, the "I see you, you see me," is sexy, with its own desires, wants, and intentionality.  A sexual object is the passive or unknowing target of sexual intentions or desires.  A sexual object either has no intentional states of its own or is treated as though it did not.  In terms of its essential nature, a sexual object (a sexualized character) is not significantly different from a candy bar, a martini, a purse, a car, or any other object meant for consumption or purchase.  This application of an appetitive, consumptive mindset to people or characters (particularly women and female characters) disturbs me extremely.  People (men, men other than myself) react with outrage when women do not behave as valid objects of consumptive sexual desire, and they even react with outrage when fictional women do not behave this way for their fictional avatars of male privilege.  I don't really understand this.  More relevant to the discussion, however, I wish that more female characters had more than two modes of existence: sexy or sexualized.  There's nothing wrong with sexy, but no group is just that, and no person is always that.

Exactly! Where is the variety? A lot of women don't want to be sexy or sexualized, they want to be professional, pretty, practical, tough, athletic, etc...game makers however are having none of that. "Sure you can have a female fighter, but she's wearing a metal bikini with a thong" "sure you can have a female doctor, but she's got her blouse all the way unbuttoned." I would like to see a variety of game characters from sweet girly girls to tough practical women warriors, to sexy gorgeous ladies and everything in between, not just one type. And I don't want to see every large breasted character in revealing/titillating clothing or made to be promiscuous because those two things don't go together. In real life I've met just as many small breasted, tomboyish girls who are promiscuous as I have large breasted girls in revealing clothes and heavy makeup who are. Yet you never get to see large breasted women dressed modestly or professional. Women with large breasts in games are only ever made for one reason and that is to be looked at by males.

[Gregolian]

I'm saying I disagree with your opinion. An opinion can't be wrong neither yours nor mine. You could think Bloodrayne isn't sexualized and that would be your opinion. You think a woman with cleavage showing, a tight shirt, and makeup in a combat situation is not sexualized in any way, that's fine. I disagree. Your examples do not fit my criteria, I showed you an example of an outfit that I would like to see on a large chested girl and you got mad.

 

In case you just didn't understand at all what I was trying to say: In video games, like the video game series who's forum we are currently posting on women with very large breasts are portrayed in a sexual way every single time. There is cleavage or a thigh slit all the way up to her hip, boob windows, micro mini skirts, or pants that go inside her ass-crack and her outfit is skin tight. Even if it makes no sense for her character she is still dressed like a teenage fantasy (DA2 Flemeth, Samara, EDI, etc...). These women are usually reduced to one dimensional stereotypes as well, again: the seductress, the femme fatale, the sexy____(nurse, scientist, cop, etc...) rather than a legitimate portrayal of those professions or giving her a fleshed out character and making her human. I'm tired of that. I hate it. I have large breasts and I'm not promiscuous or seductive or dumb or weak or one dimensional. I would like someone like me to be represented as a person and not an object.

 

Anyway, I am going to put you on mute and I advise you do the same to me, we are both making each other upset and I wouldn't want to get this thread closed needlessly.

Not necessarily a version of what you are speaking of (as there are no large breasts) but this is probably one of the most "powerful" and warrior like female characters I can remember:

 

She rides wolves into battle, how badass is that.

[Tonishi]

The topic is very interesting and I would've loved to read everything and THEN reply but after seeing this already has 64 pages, I think I have to skip a few pages...

 

First of, I'm a straight guy.

 

In my teenage years, I didn't question the skimpy armor. I did enjoy it. Sometimes it looks cool and it would work if it was for an event in the game. You know, perhaps a yearly celebration of a long won war and ladies and gentlemen would have a decorative "battle" armor? There it would be justified.

 

Nowadays, I despise them mostly. I just can't enjoy them, since I know that every blow which the lady takes will be fatal because she has no protection. I wouldn't mind if her free-time clothes were skimpy but she needs to have a real armor.

 

On Dragon age's mages I've been a bit forgiving - they can use spells to protect themselves. I really liked the DA2 Rock armor since it was quite literal. I could accept Morrigan's clothing, because it basically needed to be like that if we think about the transformation. Though the lower part would've probably be broken if she transformed into a bear... But upper part could perhaps stay safe from being ripped apart.

 

I think it would've been fine if the first inquisitor was a female to start with. Personally I don't like the current one, he looks... Dull. Same applies to the original Shepard. And the female Shepard too wasn't anything special in my eyes. I was happy though to see her on the box cases. 

 

I also dislike the manly men as main characters... I prefer athletic and agile male bodies.

 

I'm not sure but since EA is the publisher of the game, I think they do the management and order what must be put into the commercials. Most of the times the very heads of the bigger companies doesn't have any clue about the products or their audiences. They just assume everything is like something, whatever their assumptions are. It's true that many still believe that the games wouldn't sell very well if the cover had a woman in it. I'll take The Last of Us for an example. When they made the commercials, adds and the cover for the game, the commercial managements demanded to remove Ellie from it. Reason? "It wouldn't sell so well because there's a girl in there. Either remove it or put her into the background." She was up the front, Joel was a bit in the back. Naughtydogs refused and kept the original designs. BAM, one of the most selling games on that year.

 

Perhaps an alternative solution could be that the cover and commercials have picture of both genders? 

 

And what comes to The Witcher for example.. I did enjoy it and I think it wouldn't work with a female character. Mostly because how it was written. I think it's okay for some RPGs to have partly written character and gender. BUT, there should be more games with a strong female main character also without that much sexy written on them. Remember Me, for an example, wasn't that enjoyable for me and it's posters didn't feel good for me. The character had "sexy" all around her, since she had that skin-tight outfit... While they look techy, it was just because it looks sexy. Mirror's edge's main character on the otherhand looks good. She's pretty alright, but she doesn't have "I'M SEXY AND I KNOW IT" all over her. The newest (I think it's still the newest) Lara Croft too isn't screaming for sex either. Those I prefer. I hate to admit though that I haven't tried them yet - I didn't enjoy original Tomb raider's gameplay so I haven't tried the newest. Mirror's edge looks interesting, somehow I just haven't found the time yet... I judge the games based on gameplay videos and the comments of others, not their covers. Still, I don't deny the effect the cover does. I don't enjoy the typical "Manly man on the middle of all action", "Sexy girl posing with weapons" or anything like that. I prefer artistic covers, possibly no character(s) tied to it.

 

Someone said that the problem lies far deeper and that is true. People are still very close-minded and continue to be, thanks to our media. Here it isn't so bad but looking at the US commercials, it's so sexist and other stuff. Also many movies, even Disney-cartoons have this. The ladies are always princesses and pretty. Sure, they might defend themselves from time to time but mostly they're just "save me!" While it is an okay concept, it's not good if it's in almost every movie. Though I guess Frozen was different in this? I haven't seen it yet. Anyway, the problem is that the current message is drilled into our heads from the very childhood! "Women must be sexy, Men are supposed to be manly men with no feelings and use women as decorations" and such. That's the reason why some men (or boys) act all stupid on online games when they find out if someone's a girl... It's ridiculous and sad. 

 

And since toys, commercials and movies all show the gender "roles" as they "should be", video games tend to do the same. So yeah, it's not a problem just in video games, it is a problem on larger scale. So, it is a big ship to turn over but it's not impossible. Video games are still quite "new", so it would be easier to turn it here if more game companies dared to this. 

[karushna5]

Can you imagine two male companions having that kind of growth in their relationship, though? One "butch" one and one "sexy" one eventually discovering they are on the same side... Kinda sounds silly, when it's the other sex doing it.
 
I dunno. I do appreciate that they did a cool thing with Aveline and Isabela, but... I'm also kinda tired of seeing women judge one another in the first place.

That has always been my test of what is genderized vs not. Can it work with men? The difference might be a feminine man vs a masculine man which is an occaisonal story line. It usually ends grossly, though, with the feminine man proveing he gets twice as many girls the way he is than macho man, and macho man agreeing that he is a man after all.

The morals compared seem skewed.

I have noticed that beauty is a virtue to so many people, and not just gross people no one likes, or who dont matter. How others show themselves can be offensive to people. My sister doesnt like me in her house unless I wear a bra. Never mind there is a T-Shirt or a wool sweater over it. It is offensive. I have had random people approach me about my scars, saying I can get them fixed. I even hear people talk about a fat person going shopping and acting like they had no right to be there and dont they realize how terrible they are? Ugh, why do people act like beauty/looks are their right to see in every face they

Think of babies, if it is a girl people coo how pretty/sweet she is. If it is a boy they coo about being a "strong little man" or being a troublemaker. Never mind they have the same movements or reactions, and from an early age we tell girls their beauty is their greatest asset, and in many cases, their mark as a person. Their whole worth can get narrowed down by how they use this asset, or how dearly priced. Boys, on the other hand are given more leeway as long as they are strong. No wonder more boys grow up to be violent(as that is their only socially approved way to deal with emotions) and more women have body issues.

[karushna5]

Exactly! Where is the variety? A lot of women don't want to be sexy or sexualized, they want to be professional, pretty, practical, tough, athletic, etc...game makers however are having none of that. "Sure you can have a female fighter, but she's wearing a metal bikini with a thong" "sure you can have a female doctor, but she's got her blouse all the way unbuttoned." I would like to see a variety of game characters from sweet girly girls to tough practical women warriors, to sexy gorgeous ladies and everything in between, not just one type. And I don't want to see every large breasted character in revealing/titillating clothing or made to be promiscuous because those two things don't go together. In real life I've met just as many small breasted, tomboyish girls who are promiscuous as I have large breasted girls in revealing clothes and heavy makeup who are. Yet you never get to see large breasted women dressed modestly or professional. Women with large breasts in games are only ever made for one reason and that is to be looked at by males.

Actually, I think Aveline may suit this, look at her in her lack of armor, and she is actually fairly busty, not sure though. Sorry for the double post XD

[Nefla]

Not necessarily a version of what you are speaking of (as there are no large breasts) but this is probably one of the most "powerful" and warrior like female characters I can remember:

 

She rides wolves into battle, how badass is that.

I think Studio Ghibli is great at portraying girls as people and not just pretty damsels, I think they are really good for young women to watch. I hope some day busty women can be portrayed this way too

 

Actually, I think Aveline may suit this, look at her in her lack of armor, and she is actually fairly busty, not sure though. Sorry for the double post XD

While she doesn't fit my standards of busty, I love Aveline both in her personality and look she is practical and skilled and there are no weird boob cutouts or anything on her armor.

[Gregolian]

I think Studio Ghibli is great at portraying girls as people and not just pretty damsels, I think they are really good for young women to watch. I hope some day busty women can be portrayed this way too

 

I need to watch Princess Mononoke again soon.  I might actually make a character like her in Inquisition now that I think about it.  As an aside I love how happy she looks in that pic I managed to find.

 

You know, I am trying to come up with characters that fit that "large chest but not excessively sexualised" and I am really struggling.

 

Only one I can come up with is the major from Ghost in the Shell but even then:

Spoiler

[Nefla]

I need to watch Princess Mononoke again soon.  I might actually make a character like her in Inquisition now that I think about it.  As an aside I love how happy she looks in that pic I managed to find.

 

You know, I am trying to come up with characters that fit that "large chest but not excessively sexualised" and I am really struggling.

 

Only one I can come up with is the major from Ghost in the Shell but even then:

*snip*

I know, it's nearly impossible (especially in video games) and that's the problem

[Gregolian]

I know, it's nearly impossible (especially in video games) and that's the problem

I can literally think of 0 in gaming so I have moved into other anime or movies and I am still struggling.  Orihime in Bleach KINDA fits the bill but she's a damsel in distress CONSTANTLY so that doesn't count.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

I can literally think of 0 in gaming so I have moved into other anime or movies and I am still struggling.  Orihime in Bleach KINDA fits the bill but she's a damsel in distress CONSTANTLY so that doesn't count.

They use boobs as (lazy) shorthand for sexy.  "Oh, she's large chested.  That means she's sexy."  Kind of like how Chaucer uses gap teeth and red stockings to tell us that the Wife of Bath is sexy/easy.  Wait, what about the tall girl with the big non-lethal gun from Trigun? Milly Thompson?  She's not sexualized.

Modifié par Kaiser Wilhelm, 13 mai 2014 - 09:50 .

[Gregolian]

They use boobs as (lazy) shorthand for sexy.  "Oh, she's large chested.  That means she's sexy."  Kind of like how Chaucer uses gap teeth and red stockings to tell us that the Wife of Bath is sexy/easy.  Wait, what about the tall girl with the big non-lethal gun from Trigun? Milly Thompson?  She's not sexualized.

I hadn't seen Trigun in forever so she honestly didn't come to mind.

[karushna5]

I love women, I mean not just romntically or sexually but I love who we are and the characters we can be and our differences and wide varieties. I would like to think we can do this harmony thing a good deal better than the guys. Give and take. And I love the characters that are produced, for us.

I think what has been keeping us back, story wise is men have wanted to give us 1 story. The beautiful/sexy girl of their dreams/nightmares

But imagine, just once, female characters that are not based on their being female, but our wondrous and varied personalities.
All female Cast(shouldnt happen because who would straight girls romance? But just for thought the variety)

Warriors
1) A lovely Templar, someone who has made sure of their appearance and has decorated their armor in little ways some big, some small. She likes some heel. And when not in armor, if she can, she wears dresses such as in "camp". Mainly due to having so few joys in the circle. She is on the hunt for a mage. She has their philacterie and has went renegade to track this specific mage down for personal reasons enough to leave the Templars. A human

2) An Elf who fights for the City Elves. Sword and shield and sturdy yet graceful. She cares deeply for her people and is a very good person who is thoughtful and kind. Despite this, or because of it, she is fiery about mistreatment and leads attack after attack. Unrelenting. She joins the hero in hope for a better future. At a place in her life with the passion of youth but leading into the weariness of hard fights fought. champion.

3) a Reaver consumed the blood of a dragon. Pain fuels her and she laughs at the world. She knows that she has gone too far and travels with the hero to fight for a cause, to direct her after all her wrongs. When the idea of a cure comes along, will she take it? Will she kill for it? Will she betray you for it? She would be a loose cannon that you can ground or kill or turn on your enemies. The evil character who wants redemption but has no idea how to obtain it. A human

Rogues
1) A professional Duelist. A mercenary of the highest pedigree. She is in for the coin, but also the fortune, the honor, and the style. She never does anything if not for a calculated reason. Powerful, carefree, but also respected. She has made a career of fighting other peoples battles. A lover. But less Isabela, and more Zevran. She is proud and cannot stand an insult to her honor. Grew up poor but today, the highest of nobles sing her praise.

2) A Dwarf Assassin, retired. She spent years with the carta. She is old and quite knowledgeable about their ways. Unlike Zevran, she isnt proud of her kills or like Leliana a ashamed. Someone she cares about got mixed up in it and the hero unwittingly saved them. Someone truly amoral but very loyal. There is nothing quite like having a completely loyal character also be morally bankrupt. Similiar to Varric, the only character who never can turn on you.

3) a Qunari Artificer. To offset the more morally grey masculine characters. Actually Qunari, she will reveal how Qunari really are without the extent of Sten fanaticism. One of the few women who worked on making DA version of gunpowder. She had to supervise something on one warfront and says she was lost, but seems in no hurry to meet up with anyone. Boisterous, tough, less Liara as a scientist, but more like the Doc in Back to the Future if he was super strong and didnt quite know it. She likes to make things blow up. Sent by the leaders back home, but for what purpose?

Mages:

Healer: I really want to play up the whole joined with a spirit thing for all spirit healers. In this case, Valor. Human, she is very butch with a wide frame and short cropped hair. She has several tattoos that tell her stories of her battles. A mage shock trooper, combat medic type. She throws them over her shoulder and keep running. Think a blend of Jenkins and Vega except a healer.

Necromancer: a powerful woman, beautiful. An Elven Keeper. A very religious character, but with a powerful "heretical" bent. An idea of the older beliefs before Andrastian religion which would be an important plot. Dalish, but instead of needing to have a point into the past, she feels the need to ascend to where she thinks the creators should be. Ambitious and ruthless, she left her clan in search of an answer, whatever it might be.

Battlemage: an apostate. More on the scale of Malcolm Hawke, then Anders. She is a traveler and knows just to duck her head. Laid back, care free. She joined the hero as more of someone to hide behind. A coward certainly, but that trait is mostly hidden under her bravado until under pressure.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You know, I am trying to come up with characters that fit that "large chest but not excessively sexualised" and I am really struggling.

 

Only one I can come up with is the major from Ghost in the Shell but even then:

Spoiler

There's a lot when you know where to look. In anime, at any rate. I'll agree video games are a lot harder.

[Gregolian]

There's a lot when you know where to look. In anime, at any rate. I'll agree video games are a lot harder.

Part of the problem for me is I mostly watch/read shonnen stuff probably... outside of Ippo, KSKM, and the once every couple months viewing of Cowboy Bebop.

 

I know KSKM has some pretty non-standad female "trope" characters in it

Modifié par Gregolian, 14 mai 2014 - 12:07 .

[Nefla]

They use boobs as (lazy) shorthand for sexy.  "Oh, she's large chested.  That means she's sexy."  Kind of like how Chaucer uses gap teeth and red stockings to tell us that the Wife of Bath is sexy/easy.  Wait, what about the tall girl with the big non-lethal gun from Trigun? Milly Thompson?  She's not sexualized.

Yeah, it's pretty annoying. I mean they can get creative with the guys and make them have all different looks and builds and styles. It's been a really long time since I watched Trigun (and I gave up anime altogether about 4-5 years ago) but I did like Milly, she was pretty adorable.

 

I love women, I mean not just romntically or sexually but I love who we are and the characters we can be and our differences and wide varieties. I would like to think we can do this harmony thing a good deal better than the guys. Give and take. And I love the characters that are produced, for us.

I think what has been keeping us back, story wise is men have wanted to give us 1 story. The beautiful/sexy girl of their dreams/nightmares

But imagine, just once, female characters that are not based on their being female, but our wondrous and varied personalities.
All female Cast(shouldnt happen because who would straight girls romance? But just for thought the variety)

*snipped awesome post*

Seriously, that would be amazing and those characters sound awesome! (why isn't it real? T_T) I would give up the chance at a male LI to try an all female game like that. With male game characters, I feel like they design them around a concept/personality like "how can we make him look like he's forsaken human contact to live in the woods with the animals?" or "how can we portray this guy as a greedy scoundrel who will sell out his own mother for a chance to get ahead?" but with female characters it seems to almost always be "how can we make her look pretty and/or sexy and have her look different than the other pretty and/or sexy female character?"

[Tayah]

Yeah, it's pretty annoying. I mean they can get creative with the guys and make them have all different looks and builds and styles. It's been a really long time since I watched Trigun (and I gave up anime altogether about 4-5 years ago) but I did like Milly, she was pretty adorable.

 

Seriously, that would be amazing and those characters sound awesome! (why isn't it real? T_T) I would give up the chance at a male LI to try an all female game like that. With male game characters, I feel like they design them around a concept/personality like "how can we make him look like he's forsaken human contact to live in the woods with the animals?" or "how can we portray this guy as a greedy scoundrel who will sell out his own mother for a chance to get ahead?" but with female characters it seems to almost always be "how can we make her look pretty and/or sexy and have her look different than the other pretty and/or sexy female character?"

Yes this is what is so annoying, it's like most people design the characters of guys first then their look but with female characters they start with the looks (which have to be as sexy as possible) and then throw one or two character traits at her afterwards usually geared to her being motivation to the male characters anyway. Why can't you design character/personality first then pick the gender and finally come up with varied looks for both genders. Maybe randomise the genders or pull them out of a hat and see where that goes if you're always making the most varied characters male. Just a thought.

 

I'm reserving judgement on the companions in inquisition but except for existing characters I can't see any reason to assign the genders the way they have been for the companions we're about to get. I mean the concept of Iron Bull as a female qunari warrior with a mercenary background and how she picked up arms in the first place could be just as interesting. Swapping Solas to a female version of a fade specialist (especially considering Cole is a male spirit) could have worked too and much as I love Vivienne the concept could still have worked for a male in that position. If you start with the character concept and then assign the gender last it would be interesting to see the results if that assignment were random I mean. This is probably a flawed example but it's the best I can think of at the moment of what I mean by starting with the character rather than the gender.

 

And I really like your examples of an all female cast Karushna5 they were all interesting and varied character concepts. 

 

At Karushna5 Actually thinking about it you could change the gender randomly of a couple of your characters to give straight girls and gay guys options too as you're still starting with the character first and looks second.    Or add a couple more concepts for males that also start with character then gender. I don't mean any disrespect by the way just seeing so many possibilities now so thanks for the examples. 

[Lady Nuggins]

I'm reserving judgement on the companions in inquisition but except for existing characters I can't see any reason to assign the genders the way they have been for the companions we're about to get. I mean the concept of Iron Bull as a female qunari warrior with a mercenary background and how she picked up arms in the first place could be just as interesting. Swapping Solas to a female version of a fade specialist (especially considering Cole is a male spirit) could have worked too and much as I love Vivienne the concept could still have worked for a male in that position. If you start with the character concept and then assign the gender last it would be interesting to see the results if that assignment were random I mean. This is probably a flawed example but it's the best I can think of at the moment of what I mean by starting with the character rather than the gender.

 

I totally agree, but I wouldn't trade Vivienne for a male version in a million years.  To me, she is so important as she is.  A black woman in power?  A woman with a shaved head?  A fashionista who covers herself from head to toe?  A fashionista whose clothing serves additional functions (and not in a "power of seduction" kind of way but in a "literally interwoven with armor" kind of way)?  Despite my misgivings about how all the female companions are gorgeous and have the same body, I do really think so many things about Vivienne are downright radical. 

 

But I completely agree with the principle of the thing.  Why not a female Iron Bull?