9318 réponses à ce sujet

[aTigerslunch]

My family is a female dominant family, I'd say 3/4 female, 1/4 male. Me, my dad and one brother with my mom and four sisters, this is just immediate side not including aunts, uncles and cousins. Not sure how games couldnt portray women normal myself. Part of why I hate Geralt, the sexist pig.

[karushna5]

My family is a female dominant family, I'd say 3/4 female, 1/4 male. Me, my dad and one brother with my mom and four sisters, this is just immediate side not including aunts, uncles and cousins. Not sure how games couldnt portray women normal myself. Part of why I hate Geralt, the sexist pig.

It seemed like a great game, but we stopped playing immediately as soon as the sexism started. A minor part still makes us laugh. Nothing makes me roll my eyes so much as a male character telling a woman character to stop flirting or trying to have sex with him because serious stuff is happening.

But yeah, women are just as varied as men, but this never gets humanized and is always treated as an "other."

[Nefla]

If I have a choice, I almost never choose a white male as my protagonist.  I want to stretch my horizons, learn to identify with others, so I often try to create a character who is, at least visually, as different as possible from myself.  Now, I do have a hard time role-playing motivations or emotional reactions other than my own, but I think it's at least a step to place those motivations in someone very different from myself.  I like to stretch my imagination and my capacity for empathy.

I like to play a variety of characters too, it's fun to experience a new perspective I find it easier to RP a character if I come up with a base outline for their personality and motivations before I play very far ex:  she's a Dalish who never agreed with her people's view on outsiders and just wants to meet new people, experience everything, and see the world, she is energetic, friendly, and has a weird sense of humor etc...

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

This creates stories like Avengers where you have a 6 different guys and 1 woman. This despite that women are 51/49of the world. Some studies even showed that a man or a woman will look at a crowd of 1/3 women and call it equal while a complete 50/50 split they feel the women are overly numerous compared to men. This due to the media, and other things, saying men and women are so fundamentally different as to warrant women appearing in only the roles they are suited, romance and familial obligations.

Not that I liked the movie, but I thought Scarlett Johansson's character was completely unnecessary anyway. I mean what's someone who likes doing backflips doing with people who basically can't die. and yea that robin hood guy too, yea you're really good with aiming arrows but you're not fighting prince john.

[Tayah]

Lol, agreed. I do agree with Inquisition. I have said in the past women are harder to gender swap then guys because they are generally written as women first. But who wants the women to be men? I was dissapointed as well that out of 9 companions, 6 of them are men, and even with the NPCs, it is a 7/5 ratio when it easily could have been 6/6

To me, Cole will have to prove himself. He is from a different media, and I am suspect of him. Be pretty cool if he was a she. It is irrational, but generally, I dont like multimedia tie ins. As always, I keep an open mind, but if one of them had been gender swapped, I would have been pleased as punch.

Oh I so agree with multimedia tie ins, I don't like them either. A lot of gamers are only interested in the game world so even though the character may have appeared in other media you still need to develop them fully in game for the sake of those that haven't read the books (in this case) and don't know or care about Cole's history. My other annoyance with tie in media is when the lore is changed in them from what it was in the game world and even worse if that change is not addressed in the game world. 

 

I agree too that women are usually victims in their own stories when it comes to fairy tales or else they're the 'evil' stepmother who's jealous and mean just cause, leading to very limited stereotypes of females in stories for such a long time that women aren't seen as diverse and varied people but rather as limited use objects in many forms of media even now. By which I mean women are still often portrayed as victims, villains or motivation for male characters rather than as characters in their own right.

 

Okay I may be being a little melodramatic because it is improving... albeit slowly and there's still a long way to go in changing those very limiting stereotypes IMHO.

 

And yes since female roles have been so limited you often see very few in casts together even now as apparently there aren't enough stereotypes to go around.    /yes sarcasm.  

[In Exile]

Not that I liked the movie, but I thought Scarlett Johansson's character was completely unnecessary anyway. I mean what's someone who likes doing backflips doing with people who basically can't die. and yea that robin hood guy too, yea you're really good with aiming arrows but you're not fighting prince john.

 

This is why they need the Marvel Now incarnation of Captain Marvel. The one who didn't bring her swimsuit to a superhero fight. She can clearly be the Superman equivalent for the Avengers (and if fits far more than Thor anyway), but because IMO she's the "wrong" gender she's never got that level of billing. 

 

Edit: In fact, very much IMO, Superman is a great example of a character who is so not defined by his gender, that a gender-flip wouldn't even have to change the writing around the character.

[Tayah]

Not that I liked the movie, but I thought Scarlett Johansson's character was completely unnecessary anyway. I mean what's someone who likes doing backflips doing with people who basically can't die. and yea that robin hood guy too, yea you're really good with aiming arrows but you're not fighting prince john.

Beings the brains of the team.  Actually I think the point of their characters is that they can die and therefore have so much more to lose but they still stood up and fought anyway. Technically though in the comics Black Widow was part of a KGB program that trained and tuned her to the highest potential of human strength and endurance. Practically speaking at least she has the ability to see the practical options and adapt quickly to the situation she finds herself in, essential for a spy which is what she was. She's technically minded and intelligent just not on the Tony Stark level of genius and without the armour. What she really does is sum up people fairly quickly and then use that to learn what she wants or needs to know and has the skills to get herself out of trouble when she gets into it... except with the Hulk but then again I'm not sure many people can go toe to toe with the Hulk for long anyway. 

 

Supposedly we're getting Scarlet Witch for the next avengers movie (along with her brother Quicksilver because you can't increase the girls and not the boys apparently  ) so it will be interesting to see what they do with her and how she affects the plot and dynamics of the team.

 

Er yes... I'm a bit of a Black Widow fan and really any superheroine and there really aren't that many of them out there 

[aTigerslunch]

Not that I liked the movie, but I thought Scarlett Johansson's character was completely unnecessary anyway. I mean what's someone who likes doing backflips doing with people who basically can't die. and yea that robin hood guy too, yea you're really good with aiming arrows but you're not fighting prince john.

Black Widow is who she plays....might want to look her up. She took on many hardcore villians. She isnt weak, think of Batman.

Hawkeye is the archer your talking about, he is quite capable. He is also the similarity of Green Arrow in DC.

Both have their own comics and teamed up with more than Avengers.

Edit: I love how underestimated some characters are thought of until ....oh..wtf just happened?

[oceanicsurvivor]

Beings the brains of the team.  Actually I think the point of their characters is that they can die and therefore have so much more to lose but they still stood up and fought anyway. Technically though in the comics Black Widow was part of a KGB program that trained and tuned her to the highest potential of human strength and endurance. Practically speaking at least she has the ability to see the practical options and adapt quickly to the situation she finds herself in, essential for a spy which is what she was. She's technically minded and intelligent just not on the Tony Stark level of genius and without the armour. What she really does is sum up people fairly quickly and then use that to learn what she wants or needs to know and has the skills to get herself out of trouble when she gets into it... except with the Hulk but then again I'm not sure many people can go toe to toe with the Hulk for long anyway. 

 

Supposedly we're getting Scarlet Witch for the next avengers movie (along with her brother Quicksilver because you can't increase the girls and not the boys apparently  ) so it will be interesting to see what they do with her and how she affects the plot and dynamics of the team.

 

Er yes... I'm a bit of a Black Widow fan and really any superheroine and there really aren't that many of them out there 

 

There are large sections of Tumblr that would argue that Black Widow is possibly the most essential character in the Avengers. I don't know if I'm 100% on board with that, but I do think her role was well done, fun, and certainly integral (even if it received less fanfare). Also the fact that she managed to survive an encounter with the Hulk is pretty darn impressive. Loki couldn't even hold his own.

 

But yeah, the fact that the companion lineup is two guys for every girl, is disappointing. There are not many superhero teams to point to with a better split however Some of the X-men rosters through the years have to have come close...and I'm sure at some point both DC and Marvel have had an 'all girl' squad...and then promptly handed writing and drawing duties to men...and then got the book canceled in a year.   Birds of Prey and anything by Gail Simone is prolly your best bet for an even split.

[Tayah]

There are large sections of Tumblr that would argue that Black Widow is possibly the most essential character in the Avengers. I don't know if I'm 100% on board with that, but I do think her role was well done, fun, and certainly integral (even if it received less fanfare). Also the fact that she managed to survive an encounter with the Hulk is pretty darn impressive. Loki couldn't even hold his own.

 

But yeah, the fact that the companion lineup is two guys for every girl, is disappointing. There are not many superhero teams to point to with a better split however Some of the X-men rosters through the years have to have come close...and I'm sure at some point both DC and Marvel have had an 'all girl' squad...and then promptly handed writing and drawing duties to men...and then got the book canceled in a year.   Birds of Prey and anything by Gail Simone is prolly your best bet for an even split.

Plus she managed to get Loki to tell her his plan and close the portal the aliens were coming through so not bad going without superpowers. 

 

Yeah some of the x-men rosters have come close and I think there have been a few times, mainly one off events where a team of women came together before dispersing again to various other teams. I remember watching the x-men cartoon (80s) as a kid and it was 4 females mainly (Rogue, Storm, Jean Grey and Jubilee) with 5 males mainly (Prof X, Wolverine, Cyclops, Beast and Gambit) though most of the extra x-men in the episodes were also males like Nightcrawler, Archangel and Colossus. This is the closest I can come off the top of my head to a close split though my memory may be playing tricks with me.  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There are large sections of Tumblr that would argue that Black Widow is possibly the most essential character in the Avengers. I don't know if I'm 100% on board with that, but I do think her role was well done, fun, and certainly integral (even if it received less fanfare). Also the fact that she managed to survive an encounter with the Hulk is pretty darn impressive. Loki couldn't even hold his own.

Phil Coulson is the most essential character in the Avengers movie. His death is what gave all the Avengers a common goal.

[Devtek]

But yeah, the fact that the companion lineup is two guys for every girl, is disappointing. There are not many superhero teams to point to with a better split however Some of the X-men rosters through the years have to have come close...and I'm sure at some point both DC and Marvel have had an 'all girl' squad...and then promptly handed writing and drawing duties to men...and then got the book canceled in a year.   Birds of Prey and anything by Gail Simone is prolly your best bet for an even split.

The Runaways (marvel)? 8/3 split there i think, haven't read it yet.

[aTigerslunch]

http://marvel.wikia....male_Characters

All female characters listed there from Marvels Database. It has normal nonhero in this list.

[aTigerslunch]

http://en.m.wikipedi...f_superheroines

Stupid phone wont let me post this properly but here is the list of Heroines.

[Gregolian]

If I have a choice, I almost never choose a white male as my protagonist.  I want to stretch my horizons, learn to identify with others, so I often try to create a character who is, at least visually, as different as possible from myself.  Now, I do have a hard time role-playing motivations or emotional reactions other than my own, but I think it's at least a step to place those motivations in someone very different from myself.  I like to stretch my imagination and my capacity for empathy.

I'm a 6'4" over 250lb half Japanese guy.  You know how impossible it is for me to find anything even REMOTELY like me in a game?  It's infuriatingly difficult.

[aTigerslunch]

Maybe not as japanese but I see tons of big men in games.

[Gregolian]

Maybe not as japanese but I see tons of big men in games.

The Japanese...  hell, ASIAN part is the one that irks me there isn't more of.  Sleeping Dogs frankly is the only recent game that has Asian people in it where they didn't look like anime rejects.

[aTigerslunch]

Actually in Bound by Blood has one that looks asian in it, not one I'd say is perfect but close. And your right, there isnt much of them outside of anime appearance.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

 

[XMissWooX]

I'm a little confused over some of the sentiments here.

One moment people are arguing that characters shouldn't be written as 'women' but should be written as *characters* first and foremost, with the gender being assigned later (possibly even randomly).

The next moment, those same people are arguing that Bioware should have deliberately written characters to be 'women' because then there would have been a more even male:female ratio.

It just seems a little contradictory to me.

[9TailsFox]

http://en.m.wikipedi...f_superheroines

Stupid phone wont let me post this properly but here is the list of Heroines.

Wow nice list is there something like what just male list?

[9TailsFox]

I'm a little confused over some of the sentiments here.

One moment people are arguing that characters shouldn't be written as 'women' but should be written as *characters* first and foremost, with the gender being assigned later (possibly even randomly).

The next moment, those same people are arguing that Bioware should have deliberately written characters to be 'women' because then there would have been a more even male:female ratio.

It just seems a little contradictory to me.

What is the problem

We are humans we don't know what we want. And there are so many people. And everyone have different opinions, like topic about armour women asked more "feminine armour" and all started bashing hear it's not realistic bla bla... And example I don't care about realism this is fantasy game not Kingdoms come deliverance.I want most over the top armour. All think it's problem women are over sexualized(for me it's not I love women), and man not why not? why we almost always wear 5 layers of metal from head to toe. I get of topic. The point is if someone create game you think would be perfect for you, it wouldn't as good as you think. We play games or watch moves to experience other peoples ideas.

[aTigerslunch]

Im not sure how many will care for these lists but I have some following, since was asked about the male list, figured Id go ahead and add the other two I thought were more relevant to this thread.

 

List of women in games, and an extremely small list for the lesbians, Bioware being the titles for them.

 

http://en.m.wikipedi..._in_video_games

 

 

Surprisingly in this link, I didnt know the Sims is what actually helped start marketing these types more, according to their marketing tab. I thought Black Isle had them.

 

http://en.m.wikipedi..._Computer_Games

[Dutchess]

I'm a little confused over some of the sentiments here.

One moment people are arguing that characters shouldn't be written as 'women' but should be written as *characters* first and foremost, with the gender being assigned later (possibly even randomly).

The next moment, those same people are arguing that Bioware should have deliberately written characters to be 'women' because then there would have been a more even male:female ratio.

It just seems a little contradictory to me.

 

I don't see the problem here. The first point (hopefully) prevents resorting to stereotypes and therefore more interesting and well-written characters. The second point is not about "deliberately" writing characters as women, but is a logical consequence of the first point. If the character has been designed around personality, goals, beliefs, etc. first, it could be both male or female, and this would (hopefully) result in a group of companions with as many men as women, not twice as many male as female companions.

 

It seemed like a great game, but we stopped playing immediately as soon as the sexism started. A minor part still makes us laugh. Nothing makes me roll my eyes so much as a male character telling a woman character to stop flirting or trying to have sex with him because serious stuff is happening.

But yeah, women are just as varied as men, but this never gets humanized and is always treated as an "other."

 

I don't mean to come across as pushy or anything, but I would like to say that I actually appreciated the Witcher games and did not see the grave offenses people on this board so often accuse those games of. TW2 had several strong, powerful and interesting female characters: Philippa, Saskia, Philippa's apprentice (forgot her name at the moment), Ves. They had their own goals and purposes and worked to achieve those, independently. DA, despite all Bioware's talk about inequality, did not have that many strong women in charge. Anora comes to mind, but she actually doesn't accomplish a single thing in the game on her own. Only in possible epilogue slides is she useful. DA2 had Meredith, but she was barking mad, so ehh.. I'm hesitant to include the Chantry people, because again, despite it being claimed that the Revered Mothers are important and have power, I don't recall seeing them do anything useful in either game. 

 

If you want to follow the "no sexism" rule, I think DA could easily be excluded as well. Desire demons, Isabela getting the STD jokes and often being confronted with her promiscuous behavior while Zevran face no such confrontations, Lady Warden being royally screwed over if she went for the romance that has been dangled in front of her nose like a carrot from the beginning, getting dumped because she is infertile while none of the other royal outcomes mentions anything about an heir either and solo Anora and Anora & Alistair are unlikely to have a child either. City elf is being threatened with rape, male is not. Far more men in positions of power: Behlen, Harrowment, Eamon, Howe, Loghain, Greagoir, Irving, Zathrian.

[XMissWooX]

I don't see the problem here. The first point (hopefully) prevents resorting to stereotypes and therefore more interesting and well-written characters. The second point is not about "deliberately" writing characters as women, but is a logical consequence of the first point. If the character has been designed around personality, goals, beliefs, etc. first, it could be both male or female, and this would (hopefully) result in a group of companions with as many men as women, not twice as many male as female companions.

But then how do we know Bioware didn't do that?
Perhaps they *did* design the characters around around their personality, goals, beliefs, etc. first and then said "this character could be male or female" and it just so happened that 'male' was chosen 6 times and 'female' was chosen 3 times.

I think the issue for me is that I would like a character to be female because they simply *happened* to be female, rather than being male-turned-female-because-we-needed-more-women. The latter just comes across as forced and artificial to me.