9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Nuggins]

I don't see what is forced about being conscious of including a wide variety of characters who are not all straight white men. If anything, it makes writers confront a number of unconscious assumptions that they tend to make. If you set out to make a giant one-eyed mercenary, what is it that makes that character have to be male rather than female? What is lost by making that character a woman? The process of writing any character is to make relatively superficial decisions (i.e. "I need at least 2 rogues and they can't both be the same race" or "we should have a character from Orlais so they can tell us more about that culture") and then develop those into something more meaningful. Characters do not emerge fully-formed from the heads of their writers. Somewhere in the process, somebody said "this character is male" when they could have said "this character is female."

Starting with the character first simply means not relying on tired tropes and stereotypes about women. Because female characters are often pigeonholed into "types" from the outset, whereas male characters are often given much more variety and nuance.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't see what is forced about being conscious of including a wide variety of characters who are not all straight white men. If anything, it makes writers confront a number of unconscious assumptions that they tend to make. If you set out to make a giant one-eyed mercenary, what is it that makes that character have to be male rather than female? What is lost by making that character a woman? The process of writing any character is to make relatively superficial decisions (i.e. "I need at least 2 rogues and they can't both be the same race" or "we should have a character from Orlais so they can tell us more about that culture") and then develop those into something more meaningful. Characters do not emerge fully-formed from the heads of their writers. Somewhere in the process, somebody said "this character is male" when they could have said "this character is female."

Starting with the character first simply means not relying on tired tropes and stereotypes about women. Because female characters are often pigeonholed into "types" from the outset, whereas male characters are often given much more variety and nuance.

Well, Iron Bull was part of the Qunari and female Qunari who follow the Qun aren't warriors. 

[Mockingword]

Well, Iron Bull was part of the Qunari and female Qunari who follow the Qun aren't warriors. 

Iron Bull doesn't follow the Qun, so it wouldn't make a difference.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Iron Bull doesn't follow the Qun, so it wouldn't make a difference.

But unlike our Qunari Inquisitor, he was once a follower of the Qun. He defected, but that still means that he was raised and trained by their standards. And their standards say women aren't warriors. 

[Mockingword]

But unlike our Qunari Inquisitor, he was once a follower of the Qun. He defected, but that still means that he was raised and trained by their standards. And their standards say women aren't warriors. 

Like, maybe the Iron Bull could've been a female Qunari who defected in order to become a warrior? And maybe she could've become skilled just through her own hard work?

 

I know. Mind-blowing, right?

[Enigmatick]

Like, maybe the Iron Bull could've been a female Qunari who defected in order to become a warrior?

 

I know. Mind-blowing, right?

Why does it matter so much? Is there a quota somewhere I don't know about that needs to be reached?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Like, maybe the Iron Bull could've been a female Qunari who defected in order to become a warrior? And maybe she could've become skilled just through her own hard work?

 

I know. Mind-blowing, right?

I'm no saying they couldn't do that, just that Iron Bull's story is one of a Qunari warrior who defected from the Qun and formed a mercenary band. That story does not have the option for Iron Bull to be a female in it. 

[Mockingword]

I'm no saying they couldn't do that, just that Iron Bull's story is one of a Qunari warrior who defected from the Qun and formed a mercenary band. That story does not have the option for Iron Bull to be a female in it. 

Okay, I'm going to say this as simply as I can.

 

Any part of a story can be changed while it's still being written.

 

It's not like BioWare was like "Oh man, we should've made Iron Bull a woman, but now we can't because it doesn't work with the beginning". If they felt that way they could just change the beginning. They're not forced to stick with it in any way. They aren't confined by the story, they control the story.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay, I'm going to say this as simply as I can.

 

Any part of a story can be changed while it's still being written.

 

It's not like BioWare was like "Oh man, we should've made Iron Bull a woman, but now we can't because it doesn't work with the beginning". If they felt that way they could just change the beginning. They're not forced to stick with it in any way. They aren't confined by the story, they control the story.

Drop the condensation. It only hurts your case. 

[Mockingword]

Drop the condensation. It only hurts your case.  

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

P.S. My tone, however you interpret it, does not make my point less valid. Maybe you should pay attention to that instead.

[Sebby]

Okay, I'm going to say this as simply as I can.

 

Any part of a story can be changed while it's still being written.

 

It's not like BioWare was like "Oh man, we should've made Iron Bull a woman, but now we can't because it doesn't work with the beginning". If they felt that way they could just change the beginning. They're not forced to stick with it in any way. They aren't confined by the story, they control the story.

 

This is Bioware's story, not yours.

 

Deal with it.

[AresKeith]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

But anyway, what she's saying is that while they could have done so it's their decision 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This is Bioware's story, not yours.

 

Deal with it.

Not only that, but Bioware is restricted by a couple things: time and resources. They only have so long to make a game, and the story writing has the least since that needs to be done first. So they develop a basic skeleton so the others can work and then they add the meat of the story later. The meat can be swapped out relatively simple enough, but the skeleton can't be swapped nearly as easily. 

[Mockingword]

This is Bioware's story, not yours.

 

Deal with it.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

 

By that basis,                   instead of critquing my posts, which are mine, and can say anything I want them to.

 

And yet here we are.

[Mockingword]

Typical

Oh no, how dare I be amused. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Let's not get into personal attacks, lest this thread be closed.

My argument wasn't that they come up with 90% of the character and then go back and change the gender after they're fully fleshed out. I would not expect the devs to do that, and I did not mean to imply that.

[The Hierophant]

Oh no, how dare I be amused. 

Plaintiff?

[Mockingword]

Plaintiff?

No, this is Patrick.

[The Hierophant]

No, this is Patrick.

Nah.

[AresKeith]

Let's not get into personal attacks, lest this thread be closed.

My argument wasn't that they come up with 90% of the character and then go back and change the gender after they're fully fleshed out. I would not expect the devs to do that, and I did not mean to imply that.

 

I understood what you was trying to say

[Lady Nuggins]

Anyway, qunari restrictions on female warriors is a fair point, but not an impossible hurdle. Lady Iron Bull would not have been raised as a warrior. Maybe she was raised as a merchant--strong (somebody needs to haul cargo) and money-smart. Maybe she's had to fend off pirates attacking her merchant ship, so she's seen her share of battle even when it wasn't her "place" to engage in it. Maybe she left the qun when she was young, and has had years to hone her skills and reputation among the mercenaries.

[Lady Nuggins]

This thread has kind of gone all over the place, honestly. For a while it was also about the designs for female qunari. It's sort of become a general thread about female representation in Inquisition.

[AresKeith]

This thread has kind of gone all over the place, honestly. For a while it was also about the designs for female qunari. It's sort of become a general thread about female representation in Inquisition.

 

I do hope to see more female qunari in DA:I besides the Inquisitor 

[Tayah]

I don't see the problem here. The first point (hopefully) prevents resorting to stereotypes and therefore more interesting and well-written characters. The second point is not about "deliberately" writing characters as women, but is a logical consequence of the first point. If the character has been designed around personality, goals, beliefs, etc. first, it could be both male or female, and this would (hopefully) result in a group of companions with as many men as women, not twice as many male as female companions.

Yes this is what I was trying to say and get across with designing characters first because I'm tired of the limited number of stereotypes female characters are portrayed with I thought this would be a way to move away from the stereotypes.

 

But then how do we know Bioware didn't do that?
Perhaps they *did* design the characters around around their personality, goals, beliefs, etc. first and then said "this character could be male or female" and it just so happened that 'male' was chosen 6 times and 'female' was chosen 3 times.

I think the issue for me is that I would like a character to be female because they simply *happened* to be female, rather than being male-turned-female-because-we-needed-more-women. The latter just comes across as forced and artificial to me.

I have two problems with this first if every time you create companions and you come out with more male than female characters and especially with a large gap (and 2 to 1 is a large gap) then perhaps it's time to look at why you automatically make more male than female companions and why a great character ends up being male 2 thirds of of the time when they're a blank slate at that time.

 

2nd I am not suggesting male turned female I'm suggesting make another character female when assigning the genders. You know approximately how many companions you're going for and you have to pick a class for them to balance things out so why not also balance out the genders? In some way something about the character is forced simply by needing enough rogues or mages or by needing someone with a particular background to help you understand or get to know a particular culture within the game.