9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Tayah]

Hehe I avoided Mass Effect for the LONGEST time because, even after doing some self-motivated research, I still thought it was just another shooter with a male protagonist. The only reason I ever gave it a shot was because I knew it was from the same company that gave me Dragon Age.

 

Yep i stayed in the so not interested category until some months before ME2 was due and I saw it available for PC and decided to research it again when I discovered with some digging that actually I could play a female after all. I still went in with low expectations and was pleasantly surprised   ... for the most part.

 

Of course if I'd known about fem Shep earlier (and PC availability) I would have bought it much sooner and at full price instead of on sale as I did. Just saying 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Of course if I'd known about fem Shep earlier (and PC availability) I would have bought it much sooner and at full price instead of on sale as I did. Just saying 

So it was a good thing

[Tayah]

So it was a good thing

For my wallet yes, for Bioware maybe not so much. I seem to be one of many examples of people who would have played sooner and paid more had they known they could play a female character so advertising that fact might help their revenue and have an interesting impact on some of the data they collect (assuming data gathering isn't turned off and I usually turn it off I admit). 

 

It's a point of the oft repeated argument for fem inquisitor marketing... as is this reply, thanks for the opportunity. 

 

Seriously though I'd rather know a game is the type I like and offers me the gender choice I prefer so I can buy it and play it when it comes out and discuss it or read about it currently on it's forums than get it later when all the attention is on possible sequel content. I also like to support game devs that actually make the games I like as it seems fairer to me... or would if they didn't charge such ridiculously high prices in Australia and New Zealand compared to the rest of the world. 

 

Aww hell, that could get dangerous... er more female inquisitor and races in marketing please. 

[Lady Nuggins]

Hehe I avoided Mass Effect for the LONGEST time because, even after doing some self-motivated research, I still thought it was just another shooter with a male protagonist. The only reason I ever gave it a shot was because I knew it was from the same company that gave me Dragon Age.

 

I knew about Femshep from other gamers, but I still didn't look into ME until female friends told me to.  I also thought it was just another shooter.  I needed to be told that it had the same kind of story and character elements as DA.  So once again, the things that are probably more likely to sell to women are the very things that Bioware is so good at.  Customization, story, characters, and romance.

[Bugsie]

http://www.examiner....-more-discussed

Doesn't real tell us anymore than we already know unfortunately.

I came across ME after my partner told me about playing as a customised female protagonist. This is right after first playing Elder scrolls games where. I had been super stoked to play as a customisable female character (dark elf FTW). If he hadn't bought the game for me, I'm not sure I would have picked it up for myself.

[Mes]

 ridiculously high prices in Australia and New Zealand compared to the rest of the world. 

 

 

 

Heh. I was thinking about which edition to get and then remembered I live in New Zealand and will probably only be able to afford the regular version of the game!!

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Wow are you in auckland?

[Mes]

Wow are you in auckland?

 

Wellington. Maybe Peter Jackson will buy my game for me...  

[Bugsie]

Ive consigned my self to just buying a fairly straight forward version of the game.

 

*Shakes fist at Australian distributers*

[Stelae]

Ive consigned my self to just buying a fairly straight forward version of the game.

 

*Shakes fist at Australian distributers*

They've come good and said the Inquisitor's Edition will have the Deluxe version.  (still costs and arm and a leg, and if I bring more bits of plastic into this house it'll collapse under the weight, but at least for those who are inclined, they get the proper version).

[Bugsie]

There were some things I thought would be neat to have, but it's likely to go the way of my blow up omni blade I got with ME3.  That involves shifting it around from place to place till I put it in an unused corner of a room and forget about it for months till I realise I really need to dust that part of the house.

[Khaeix]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, or actually pertains to the topic, but it has been shown that markets prefer to market masculine products. This is because both masculine and feminine people (gender identity, not biological sex) would have equal willingness to purchase a masculine product over a feminine product. However, masculine people are hesitant to buy feminine products.  

 

It's a pretty basic explanation coming from a Marketing student. 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

how does your degree explain the weirdness with my little pony

[Lilacs]

I remember with Dragon Age II, Lead Developer, Mike Laidlaw, did show us the female Hawke. He did his playthrough with her; it was well received, especially by us female gamers after we nagged, Lead Developer Mike Laidlaw almost to death for it. :-). I also recall having some screenshots of her as well.

 

Nonetheless, I am really looking forward to see more of the female inquisitor in the upcoming weeks and months. Bioware, we female gamers are still out here and supporting you, loyally, so.   

[Kage]

I think it is quite simple. This post is my opinion, and although I am pretty sure about this and may appear dogmatic, it is my opinion after all.

 

RPGs, movies, books, usually rely heavily in their ability to makes us identify with their characters. And once we have that little identification going on, live adventures, try new things, know new people, explore new places.

 

That is why commander Shepard needed to be human. If it were a Krogan, I would have not identified at all with nobody there at the begining, it would have been tough to like.

That is why Act 1's plot of Dragon Age 2 was terrible for me (lack of adventure whatsoever, it was like working after work).

That is why we want epic adventures, and you almost never see a videogame of "normal life".

 

The marketing of videogames is tricky because it is difficult to reach the gamers. If we talk about adverticing, posters, graphics, etc, usually you can only show a single image to the gamer, and try to attract him/her with that image. For that reason, you want to attract with that single image as much % of the viewers as possible.

How would you accomplish that?

1) With a badass male inquisitor

2) With a badass female inquisitor

3) With the logo, tribal stuff, something that only understand people that already know about dragon age

4) With a HOT male inquisitor

5) With a HOT female inquisitor

 

Depending on who sees the image, they would feel atracted or not. I would feel atracted by 1, 2, 3 and 5, because I already know Dragon Age. I would be repeled by 4, I am sorry.

My girlfriend would feel atracted by 2, 4, and repeled by 5.

 

 

So just ask you the question. Do they need to atract me? Hell no, I am already here, isnt it obvious I am going to buy the game?

Who do they need to attact to make the game sell as much as possible? If they only had 1 shot?

 

Yes, the answer is the average white straight male who would feel atracted to a badass male inquisitor or a hot female inquisitor. And we are talking about a Lara Croft, not a Female Hawke.

 

That is why by default, all marketing should focus on badass male inquisitors. And once that is covered and seen first, they can focus on other things.

 

So yes, we need more Female Inquisitor marketing. In the website, in more graphics, whatever.

And no, they should not put the Female Inquisitor in the videogame box, or the poster, or the banner of gamefaqs.

 

 

Just my 2 cents!

[Tielis]

 
 
Allan's post

 

Sounds like you need to hire more females and give them equal voice in development, amirite?

[Mes]

I think it is quite simple. This post is my opinion, and although I am pretty sure about this and may appear dogmatic, it is my opinion after all.

 

So just ask you the question. Do they need to atract me? Hell no, I am already here, isnt it obvious I am going to buy the game?

Who do they need to attact to make the game sell as much as possible? If they only had 1 shot?

 

Yes, the answer is the average white straight male who would feel atracted to a badass male inquisitor or a hot female inquisitor. And we are talking about a Lara Croft, not a Female Hawke.

 

That is why by default, all marketing should focus on badass male inquisitors. And once that is covered and seen first, they can focus on other things.

 

Just my 2 cents!

 

Alright. Your post assumes that the majority of consumers who would be willing to spend money on Dragon Age are straight while males. There's literally no data out there to back this up. From what I've heard I'm almost tempted to think that most consumers of Dragon Age games are women, and out of the guys we've got NO idea how many are straight or white!

 

This assumption that the straight while male gamer prevails everywhere has got to stop.

 

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, or actually pertains to the topic, but it has been shown that markets prefer to market masculine products. This is because both masculine and feminine people (gender identity, not biological sex) would have equal willingness to purchase a masculine product over a feminine product. However, masculine people are hesitant to buy feminine products.  

 

It's a pretty basic explanation coming from a Marketing student. 

 

I sort of see where you're coming from. It's more socially accepted to have butch women than, say, feminine men. However I believe this to be a horribly unfortunate byproduct of our convoluted society. There is nothing wrong with being feminine, whether you are a man, woman, or something in between. At some point people need to start acknowledging this, and a game like Bioware has the perfect opportunity to make a stance without being too obvious or in your face about it. Bioware has created a game where you can choose to play as any kind of character - feminine, masculine, and everything in between. Advertise that!

 

Your explanation doesn't make it right, and doesn't mean things have to keep going the way they are.

[Bugsie]

I think there are a lot of assumptions in your post kage, about marketing, about who buys these games, about who might potentially be a future consumer and about the attitudes of straight white male gamers (many are not as closed off to the idea of marketing to a group who isn't them as some seem to think, and I would argue rpg fans will see beyond that) . How can anyone argue against even proportional marketing (even if the demographic of women playing is 20% that is not an insignificant number) The character is generic and I cant help but feel bemused by the argument that the appearance of types that go against the default (badass females) would be reppellent.

[Nefla]

You are so right Kage! Women don't buy things or play games or watch movies or tv or listen to music, why appeal to them or even show that they exist? Every person I know is a straight white man and they all agree that girls have cooties and they would never watch a show (or play a game) with a girl in it unless she was hot, but even then if she opens her mouth or has an idea it's a dealbreaker and she should only be there as the straight white male hero's love interest. It's always a shame when people randomly and for no reason try to make something with a character other than a straight white male. It always ends in failure and wastes production money! Remember Telltale's The Walking Dead games? Man those sucked and they bombed hard. They would not have been such a failure if Lee had been white and Clementine had been white and male. It is widely known that this game failed because no one can identify with black people, even other black people can't! I mean their dark skin gives them weird unknown emotions and motivations that no one can understand! This lead to no one buying the game and everyone hating it. Look at the other Walking Dead game: Survival Instinct. This game was universally loved because the main character is a straight white man and that makes the whole story good. It's impossible to go wrong with a straight white man and no one ever gets tired of him no matter how many times he appears.

 

Another sad example: The Hunger Games. What were they thinking having a woman as the star of a movie? Women don't watch movies because like driving a car this confuses and frightens them and men don't want to see a movie with women in it unless they are naked. Women don't have thoughts or feelings, they can't fight or do action scenes or figure anything out. All they can do is sit there and stare blankly at a wall and who can identify with that? I know I can't! They must have lost a ton of money trying to get people to watch a woman in a movie! Haha joke's on them! You want a movie people will actually like? Movies like Ghost Rider and Green Lantern are awesome because they have straight white males!

 

Now and then companies even try to make a story about something that not only is not a straight white male but isn't even HUMAN! Pixar is a small unknown and unpopular company due to the amount of this type of movie they make. Wake up Pixar, no one wants to see a movie about toys or fish! They want to see a movie about a straight white human man! They waste their time giving "emotions" and "circumstances" to these creatures and objects when all they need to do is have a straight white man and maybe some explosions! I mean really, who would watch a movie like Wall-E when they could watch Oblivion? No one, that's who!

[Altima Darkspells]

I remember with Dragon Age II, Lead Developer, Mike Laidlaw, did show us the female Hawke. He did his playthrough with her; it was well received, especially by us female gamers after we nagged, Lead Developer Mike Laidlaw almost to death for it. :-). I also recall having some screenshots of her as well.
 
Nonetheless, I am really looking forward to see more of the female inquisitor in the upcoming weeks and months. Bioware, we female gamers are still out here and supporting you, loyally, so.   

Let's also give credit where credit is due. For DA2, BioWare actually invested in a female mesh and rig. This translated to females actually having their own unique movements that fit their body, instead of co-opting the animations and rigs from the default (male) set. If you know gaming, you're probably familiar with the football shoulders and boy-hips female models are often stuck with, even if they're included in the game. This inclusion is probably the best part of DA2.

Marketing females in gaming is a touchy subject. For the longest time, the only acceptable way to market one was as a sexual object. Granted, most male characters are somewhat advertised the same way, but male characters are an accepted ideal that you're expected to aspire to. Female characters are generally cheap blow-up dolls.

Lately, that's started to change, even in the broader media. There's My Little Pony, whose entire male cast can be counted on one finger--although Q probably counts as a whole hand. There's Legend of Korra, which is just amazing. And so on. Even video games, especially indie games are heading in that direction of at least going gender-neutral.

Really, it's only the AAA games that are being lazy and marketing everything about the twenty or thirty something bald, white male generic space marine. And that leads to boringness, which makes female characters more appealing if only for the shear novelty.

[Gregolian]

Space marine made me think...  isn't Master Chief, one of the original space marines...  isn't he black according to the books?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Space marine made me think...  isn't Master Chief, one of the original space marines...  isn't he black according to the books?

No, the books is where we learned he's white. 

[Stelae]

I think it is quite simple. This post is my opinion, and although I am pretty sure about this and may appear dogmatic, it is my opinion after all.

 

RPGs, movies, books, usually rely heavily in their ability to makes us identify with their characters. And once we have that little identification going on, live adventures, try new things, know new people, explore new places.

 

That is why commander Shepard needed to be human. If it were a Krogan, I would have not identified at all with nobody there at the begining, it would have been tough to like.

That is why Act 1's plot of Dragon Age 2 was terrible for me (lack of adventure whatsoever, it was like working after work).

That is why we want epic adventures, and you almost never see a videogame of "normal life".

 

The marketing of videogames is tricky because it is difficult to reach the gamers. If we talk about adverticing, posters, graphics, etc, usually you can only show a single image to the gamer, and try to attract him/her with that image. For that reason, you want to attract with that single image as much % of the viewers as possible.

How would you accomplish that?

1) With a badass male inquisitor

2) With a badass female inquisitor

3) With the logo, tribal stuff, something that only understand people that already know about dragon age

4) With a HOT male inquisitor

5) With a HOT female inquisitor

 

Depending on who sees the image, they would feel atracted or not. I would feel atracted by 1, 2, 3 and 5, because I already know Dragon Age. I would be repeled by 4, I am sorry.

My girlfriend would feel atracted by 2, 4, and repeled by 5.

 

 

So just ask you the question. Do they need to atract me? Hell no, I am already here, isnt it obvious I am going to buy the game?

Who do they need to attact to make the game sell as much as possible? If they only had 1 shot?

 

Yes, the answer is the average white straight male who would feel atracted to a badass male inquisitor or a hot female inquisitor. And we are talking about a Lara Croft, not a Female Hawke.

 

That is why by default, all marketing should focus on badass male inquisitors. And once that is covered and seen first, they can focus on other things.

 

So yes, we need more Female Inquisitor marketing. In the website, in more graphics, whatever.

And no, they should not put the Female Inquisitor in the videogame box, or the poster, or the banner of gamefaqs.

 

 

Just my 2 cents!

There are so many silly assumptions in this I don't know where to begin, but here goes.  It's all very well to say "oh, this is just my opinion" but your opinion would be better if you were better informed, and this is my attempt to 101 you.

 

First of all, saying that a company has to concentrate on a static advertising image (exemplified in your 5 choices -- I note with interest that you have missed the one they actually chose to go with; badass Inquisitor facing off against hoard of demons, gender unimportant) in an era where all the game stores have video screens, is a bit last century.  My local EB already has the gameplay and location trailers for DAI on high rotation.  My local JB hifi has the boxart prominently displayed. Interest has been high, they tell me, even though there isn't a prominent male figure on the box. 

 

Now, go and read the latest ESA study of who actually buys and plays video games.  Note that the average gamer age is 30 and rising, and there are more women over 18 than lads under 18 who play games.  Note also that women, as heads of households, gatekeepers for their children and gamers in their own rights, also buy almost half of all games. 

 

I've spoken before in this thread about disposable income and market share, but I don't suppose you've done us the courtesy of reading the thread, so here it is again.  People under 25 have comparatively little disposable income once they leave home. They have college and other debts, they have households to set up and they often have very little money left over for entertainment.  And yet the market is saturated with products which are targeted at male consumers, 18-24.  So you have a relatively small pool of disposable income being competed for by a relatively large pool of products.  Women over 30 have a lot more disposable income than lads under 25.  We have established careers and households, we've paid off student debt and most importantly, we are the fastest growing demographic of gamers.  And very little is actually marketed to us.  Now, in marketing terms, do you position your product to compete in an overcrowded, underfunded marketplace, or do you position it to take advantage of a cashed-up, rapidly expanding demographic with great unmet demand?  It's a no-brainer.  You can get lost amid the 47,000 other titles featuring Yet Another Bald Space Marine, or you can differentiate your product AND appeal to a lucrative new market sector.

 

Now, let's talk about RPGs and identification.  You say you'd be turned off by a Hot Male Lead on a game box.  Really?  You'd turn down the opportunity to play an attractive chap?  Is Charisma always your dump stat in the characters you create?  It takes all sorts, I suppose, but many of us relish the opportunity to play hotter versions of ourselves, as opposed to oversexualised bimbettes who are there for decorative purposes, and who do not feature in BW games. This is Bioware, not Leisure Suit Larry; they aren't going to go for T&A, male or female, in their advertising.  But as their cover art shows, they have wisely decided not to go for the Exclusively Male Gamer audience, because they know there's more money to be made by being more inclusive. 

[Lady Nuggins]

So just ask you the question. Do they need to atract me? Hell no, I am already here, isnt it obvious I am going to buy the game?

Who do they need to attact to make the game sell as much as possible? If they only had 1 shot?

 

Yes, the answer is the average white straight male who would feel atracted to a badass male inquisitor or a hot female inquisitor. And we are talking about a Lara Croft, not a Female Hawke.

 

That is why by default, all marketing should focus on badass male inquisitors. And once that is covered and seen first, they can focus on other things.

 

So yes, we need more Female Inquisitor marketing. In the website, in more graphics, whatever.

And no, they should not put the Female Inquisitor in the videogame box, or the poster, or the banner of gamefaqs.

 

See, I think your own post shows that there's a problem with your conclusion.  You state that you and your girlfriend would both find a badass female Inquisitor appealing.  Why do you then assume that the average straight white male gamer would not?  Why do so many people say "well that would please me and everyone I know, but not the average gamer."  Why is marketing desperate to please a mythical crowd of people who supposedly have tons and tons of money and are scared of female protagonists, while actual real people continue to say otherwise?

 

The questions this line of reasoning raises are:

• Is the target demographic, the group most likely to bring in the most amount of sales, actually straight white male gamers?
• If so, is this demographic overwhelmingly larger than the other demographics that this game would appeal to (women, queer gamers, POC)?
• Would a significant portion of this demographic actually be alienated by also appealing to members of other demographics (women, queer gamers, POC)?
• Would the portion of this demographic that is alienated by appealing to members of other demographics be larger than the amount of people from those other demographics who are now attracted to the game because they see themselves represented in it?

The game box is already featuring a gender neutral Inquisitor, so that part is not even an issue now. 

[oceanicsurvivor]

The marketing of videogames is tricky because it is difficult to reach the gamers. If we talk about adverticing, posters, graphics, etc, usually you can only show a single image to the gamer, and try to attract him/her with that image. For that reason, you want to attract with that single image as much % of the viewers as possible.

How would you accomplish that?

1) With a badass male inquisitor

2) With a badass female inquisitor

3) With the logo, tribal stuff, something that only understand people that already know about dragon age

4) With a HOT male inquisitor

5) With a HOT female inquisitor

 

Depending on who sees the image, they would feel atracted or not. I would feel atracted by 1, 2, 3 and 5, because I already know Dragon Age. I would be repeled by 4, I am sorry.

My girlfriend would feel atracted by 2, 4, and repeled by 5.

 

 

Right. Thats why default Male Shep used in all the Mass Effect advertising for all 3 games used the likeness of a male model. Men definitely don't have any power fantasies or vanity about their own form. Nope.