9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Andraste_Reborn]

Fundamentally it's not impossible.  Whether or not it looks good enough to show is not something I am probably that qualified to say.  It could happen, but as expected I couldn't really confirm or deny.  Dozens and dozens of ideas going around for E3 related stuff.  Most of my work, however, has been on doing alpha checks rather than working on or with anyone that is a part of our E3 plans.

 

Sorry!

 

That's OK, I realise it is not your job to know what the people who do decide this stuff are going to be thinking in three weeks time . It's nice to know that it's at least approaching alpha and at some point in the relatively near future a rainbow of Inquisitors will be created ...

 

(However, if Inquisition sets my computer on fire, insults my mother and drinks the last of my milk, I am totally holding you responsible.)

[Mes]

(However, if Inquisition sets my computer on fire, insults my mother and drinks the last of my milk, I am totally holding you responsible.)

 

Could totally happen.

[Allan Schumacher]

(However, if Inquisition sets my computer on fire, insults my mother and drinks the last of my milk, I am totally holding you responsible.)

 

Most of these things would be my fault.  Especially if it's chocolate milk.

[Kage]

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(

 

My point is that marketing is all about numbers. About who is the statistically buyer of your product.

Please do not feel ofended by my chain of thought, since I am by no means saying that women are not gamers or anything of the sort.

 

My first assumption is that the white straight male gamer in his 30s is the target. And therefore, the rest of my post. If that first assumption is incorrect, then the rest of my post is invalid.

 

But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.

Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)

 

This is a business discussion people :-)

[Caligula]

But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.

Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)

 

This is a business discussion people :-)

 

Isn't that a self-fulfilling prophecy? "The white straight male is the most common buyer, so we direct our marketing at them, thus making them the most common buyer", repeat ad infinitum. It's a very narrow perception of the potential audience: wouldn't it make more sense, from an economic perspective, to broaden that perception? To put an effort into reaching out to the untapped market?

[BubbleDncr]

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(

 

My point is that marketing is all about numbers. About who is the statistically buyer of your product.

Please do not feel ofended by my chain of thought, since I am by no means saying that women are not gamers or anything of the sort.

 

My first assumption is that the white straight male gamer in his 30s is the target. And therefore, the rest of my post. If that first assumption is incorrect, then the rest of my post is invalid.

 

But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.

Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)

 

This is a business discussion people :-)

 

There's actually been research that 48% of gamers are female (http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp)

 

So marketing towards only the straight male gamers alienates basically half of the market.

[Ryzaki]

There's actually been research that 48% of gamers are female (http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp)

 

So marketing towards only the straight male gamers alienates basically half of the market.

 

And games with their mega budgets nowadays can't really afford to do that.

[Nefla]

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(
 
My point is that marketing is all about numbers. About who is the statistically buyer of your product.
Please do not feel ofended by my chain of thought, since I am by no means saying that women are not gamers or anything of the sort.
 
My first assumption is that the white straight male gamer in his 30s is the target. And therefore, the rest of my post. If that first assumption is incorrect, then the rest of my post is invalid.
 
But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.
Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)
 
This is a business discussion people :-)

Please bother to actually read any of the thread before you post your assumptions. This point of view has already been logically refuted. From a business standpoint.

[Bugsie]

Yes I would say if your argument is 'because business' then as Nefla points out we've gone over that point ad nauseum to refute it. You were earnest in your opinion as we were in ours.

And the Roman emperor poster nicely summed up my own view on the matter and actually, I said as much, but much earlier in the thread when the same viewpoint was being tossed up by several others.

[Lady Nuggins]

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(

 

I don't think anybody thinks that you are a jerk, Kage.  You made it clear that you're just trying to discuss the reality of the situation from a business standpoint.  It's just that I think this is an outdated way of thinking, reliant on a lot of assumptions that game corporations make.  And as Nefla said, we've already discussed a lot of reasons why it may not be accurate.  It's not you we disagree with, just the point you're making.

[In Exile]

There's actually been research that 48% of gamers are female (http://www.theesa.co.../gameplayer.asp)

 

So marketing towards only the straight male gamers alienates basically half of the market.

 

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(

 

My point is that marketing is all about numbers. About who is the statistically buyer of your product.

Please do not feel ofended by my chain of thought, since I am by no means saying that women are not gamers or anything of the sort.

 

My first assumption is that the white straight male gamer in his 30s is the target. And therefore, the rest of my post. If that first assumption is incorrect, then the rest of my post is invalid.

 

But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.

Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)

 

This is a business discussion people :-)

 

Even if "white straight male gamers" are the target, they can't be the only target. It's just bad business to take a product with wide appeal and decide, by fiat, that you're going to sell it to a much narrower class of people that the full class of people it could appeal to as a product. That's just leaving money on the table, and if that was the official policy of a public company shareholders would revolt and its stock would collapse.

 

The market might be an argument for disproportionate marketing to the "safe" demographic at first (because of the risk inherent in expanding the demographic), but it's not a reason to avoid marketing to other groups.

Especially when it's an RPG, where the protagonist can literally be any person of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.

[Darth Krytie]

Even if "white straight male gamers" are the target, they can't be the only target. It's just bad business to take a product with wide appeal and decide, by fiat, that you're going to sell it to a much narrower class of people that the full class of people it could appeal to as a product. That's just leaving money on the table, and if that was the official policy of a public company shareholders would revolt and its stock would collapse.

 

The market might be an argument for disproportionate marketing to the "safe" demographic at first (because of the risk inherent in expanding the demographic), but it's not a reason to avoid marketing to other groups.

Especially when it's an RPG, where the protagonist can literally be any person of any race, gender, or sexual orientation.

 

 Most gaming companies would fail if they suddenly only had the support of their straight, white male consumers.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

I don't think anybody thinks that you are a jerk, Kage.  You made it clear that you're just trying to discuss the reality of the situation from a business standpoint.  It's just that I think this is an outdated way of thinking, reliant on a lot of assumptions that game corporations make.  And as Nefla said, we've already discussed a lot of reasons why it may not be accurate.  It's not you we disagree with, just the point you're making.

and yea, I was really wondering about My Little Pony.

[Bugsie]

and yea, I was really wondering about My Little Pony.

I must admit to being curious myself. My only guess is that it lacks the cynicism of other shows directed at men in that age group.

[Stelae]

Wow, there are a lot of posters who misunderstood my point... I am no jerk :'(

My first assumption is that the white straight male gamer in his 30s is the target. And therefore, the rest of my post. If that first assumption is incorrect, then the rest of my post is invalid.

 

But I really do think that in this industry, the white straight male is still the most common buyer.

Please do not feel offended just because I said that the first impression should be directed to that buyer! (in an economic point of view ONLY!)

No, not a jerk, just woefully misinformed, and basing a pretty silly set of views and justifications on old and inaccurate information.  Also, failing to actually look at the marketing that is out there.  BW has chosen to move away from strongly gendered marketing with the DAI cover, and I'll wager they know more about it than you or I.  You're behind the curve, here. 

 

Your first assumption, as per the ESA data, is indeed wrong.  You can "think" whatever you like about who buys games¹.  But the data is out there, and would help you form more convincing arguments if you'd only take the time to avail yourself of it and adjust your opinions accordingly.

 

You also seem to think that competing in an already overcrowded (and underfunded) section of the marketplace when there are more lucrative and less crowded spaces somehow constitutes good business, which (to be fair) seems to be common in the games industry, but that doesn't make it a good idea.  There's a strong economic and demographic argument for NOT focussing on young, white, male consumers.  Not a fluffy, feel-good social argument; a solid business one. 

 

Gaming is much more widespread than you seem to think, and gamers are much more diverse.  You want to tap into that growing market, which is now about as big as the US film industry?  Market to a broader section of it, as well as the one you theoretically already have.  This isn't rocket science. 

 

 

1. You say you "think" that most gamers are straight, white and male.  I can think my dog is actually an avatar of Fen'harel.  And there's fair prima facie evidence that she is indeed closely aligned with chaos and trickster behaviour. But if I start basing arguments on that thought, I'd expect to be handed my hat.  The evidence is against me.  Evidence trumps thoughts in matters such as this.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

Space marine made me think...  isn't Master Chief, one of the original space marines...  isn't he black according to the books?

No, John-117 is not anywhere close to "one of the original space marines".  Now, back to the matter at hand.

[Lady Nuggins]

and yea, I was really wondering about My Little Pony.

 

I think (and this is only my own theory) it's genuinely the fact that MLP:FIM was a good show (at least when it first started; I stopped watching after the first season because the writing went downhill).  From what I saw, a huge portion of the early brony camp was on 4chan, where I think guys were watching it ironically to make fun of it... and then discovered that they actually liked it and it wasn't really ironic anymore.  And it just snowballed from there--men watching it as a joke, and then when they realized they actually didn't hate it, overcompensating and making a huge freaking deal over the fact that they like it.  That's the thing: media for girls and women generally tends to be lower quality (because it tends to get less funding, less effort, less everything), so when something made for women turns out to actually be good, people act shocked.  Same thing happened with movies like The Heat and Bridesmaids.  So many journalists and film reviewers were shocked?? that there's a comedy full of women??? and it's funny????

 

Anyway, I realize this thread is now huge, so going through all the pages is probably intimidating, and I understand why Kage didn't see some of our earlier discussion.  Since I'm a nerd, I skimmed through, and I think the discussion starts turning more towards the issue of demographics around this page: http://forum.bioware.com/topic/496580-could-we-please-see-more-of-the-lady-inquisitor/page-19

[karushna5]

I must admit to being curious myself. My only guess is that it lacks the cynicism of other shows directed at men in that age group.

I mean, the fact that a variety of guys who do enjoy it also sexualize it is one issue. They found the characters likeable, which to a varying sense most people agree, are. So  it got sexualized instead. I have a friend who thinks the whole issue over bronies is stifling their expression of sexuality, and has argued to guys using sexy pictures of women and ponies right next to each other arguing a "hole is a hole"

 

One reason I am torn with the romances are there are only 3 women, as a lesbian I want my romantic options to be 2 of those 3. i know guys will have at least 1 as well for them, then the issue becomes are none of the female companions single? It has less to do with "not needing a man" and a whole lot more to do with women in media are usually condensed to what they are in relation to sex.

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

So sad about the dwarf statistics...  I would love a trailer with a female dwarf as Inquisitor.  Are we so repulsive to you?  ;-; 

 

Pseudo-mock sadness aside, I like that the box art is as gender and race (both in real world and DA senses) neutral as possible.  I don't think having other groups marketed to is what turns people off of something, rather I think it's not being marketed to at all that turns people off.  And, I have to say, things that look like they're gonna be all "straight white male" kind of turn me off, or at least do nothing by themselves to turn me on (and I'm a straight white male).  I've reached a point in my life where the more similar a game character is to me, the more boring I find it.

[In Exile]

So sad about the dwarf statistics...  I would love a trailer with a female dwarf as Inquisitor.  Are we so repulsive to you?  ;-; 

 

Pseudo-mock sadness aside, I like that the box art is as gender and race (both in real world and DA senses) neutral as possible.  I don't think having other groups marketed to is what turns people off of something, rather I think it's not being marketed to at all that turns people off.  And, I have to say, things that look like they're gonna be all "straight white male" kind of turn me off, or at least do nothing by themselves to turn me on (and I'm a straight white male).  I've reached a point in my life where the more similar a game character is to me, the more boring I find it.

 

I can relate to that sentiment a lot. Games with Jacked McSteroids as the protagonists just naturally falll in the Not Interested ™ pile for me. It takes a lot to overcome that and have me look into the game.

 

 Most gaming companies would fail if they suddenly only had the support of their straight, white male consumers.

 

I dunno, the dudebro is strong with certain genres.

[The Hierophant]

 
I dunno, the dudebro is strong with certain genres.

True. I wouldn't call the game dudebro but GTA V's record setting sales makes me wonder if it set a trend for future and current ips.

[Darth Krytie]

 

I dunno, the dudebro is strong with certain genres.

 

That's why I said most...but considering even the most generous statistics of who is actually purchasing games (disregarding who they are purchasing games for), the actual money provided solely by straight, white gamers probably wouldn't be enough to keep the entire industry afloat.

[In Exile]

That's why I said most...but considering even the most generous statistics of who is actually purchasing games (disregarding who they are purchasing games for), the actual money provided solely by straight, white gamers probably wouldn't be enough to keep the entire industry afloat.

 

I apologize. I should have added an emoticon. I wasn't being serious. I thought I would elicit a laugh.

 

I agree with you.

[Darth Krytie]

I apologize. I should have added an emoticon. I wasn't being serious. I thought I would elicit a laugh.

 

I agree with you.

 

I traveled back in time to read it with that in mind and I chuckled most heartily.

[Nefla]

That's why I said most...but considering even the most generous statistics of who is actually purchasing games (disregarding who they are purchasing games for), the actual money provided solely by straight, white gamers probably wouldn't be enough to keep the entire industry afloat.

When I was working as a cashier at Walmart years ago, this lady came through my line with two little boys (maybe 6 and 8) who were jumping around all excited and the latest GTA (don't remember which one it was). I was suspicious based on the way the kids were acting and having played the game myself (and being able to read the M rating on the cover) and was like "ma'am, this isn't for them is it? It's an M rated game and it's really violent" thinking maybe she didn't know but she just looked embarrassed and said "well they already have the other one..."