9318 réponses à ce sujet

[Tayah]

It's so hard know about the customization of the character, expecially the sex in the games that have this feature that is almost ridicolous. And I really don't understand why. Is a feature as important as knowing if a game is fantasy or shi-fi! even Destiny have made clearer there is chance to customize the PC than DAI. 

 

I remember cleary NWN and others games of the time where it was hinted everywhere the PC could be of others races than human, for example. why most SH are now reluctant to advertize these kind of features? I don't think even the most mainstream, ignorant, lower. no-buy-if-there-isn't-BoOom gamer can be put off by playng a game where one can customize his/her own character!!!

Yeah I thought some of those games including NWN even mentioned gender choice and character customisation on the box... a few games back then with the choice used to put it on the box and then they stopped doing that and it became much harder if not impossible to find out if you had a choice or not while in store. It's strange to me that games which offer even some customisation of the PC to players rarely advertise that fact or how much customisation you have when there aren't as many games even offering that feature. It used to be something that was at least mentioned on boxes before and now it's hard to find out on some websites so why did telling people about their choices become a bad idea I wonder. I'm pretty sure I remember looking at games like Arcanum and seeing I could play as a female or one of several races and go magic or tech in developing my character... that's what led to me picking it up at the time and same for some other titles including I think Morrowwind which was my first elder scrolls game. 

 

@ Ryzaki fem quizzy yes please... I'm pretty sure that's going to be my first play through leaving the elf inquisitor languishing for a later game for the first time in a long time   (Assuming you meant qunari female inquisitor specifically otherwise I've really got so caught up on that option I'm seeing it everywhere!   Which isn't necessarily a bad thing  )

[9TailsFox]

Yes, precisely. This is what bothers me about the lack of female Inquisitor advertising. Bioware has created a game where YOU CAN CHOOSE the gender AND race of your character. Why the heck would they just show the same white guy in every trailer? Like... don't they WANT to advertise this amazing feature they've included in this game? Even if we forget the whole social movement aspect, it's still poor advertising. 

They don't want to. What is >2000 year best selling game, Call of Duty. http://en.wikipedia....ing_video_games

So they want to sell it to biggest existent market. Run and gun, action. They don't want to sell game to people who make character for 3 hours. I have no word after watched this part.

http://youtu.be/-KjM9SouVN8?t=2m23s

 

And something for fun.

Spoiler

[Felya87]

Yes, precisely. This is what bothers me about the lack of female Inquisitor advertising. Bioware has created a game where YOU CAN CHOOSE the gender AND race of your character. Why the heck would they just show the same white guy in every trailer? Like... don't they WANT to advertise this amazing feature they've included in this game? Even if we forget the whole social movement aspect, it's still poor advertising. 

 

 

 

exactly. Is something I can't really understand. It would just mean type a few words in the dedicated page of the official site (site that should give INFORMATION about the game!!!) is that really so much work to do?   or simply put the image of the artwork with female and male Inquisitor, instead of the dude of the trailer.

It doesn't seem too much to ask.

 

aigh. sadly, I think that everything we have said in this topic is for nothing. few month before the game is out, and nothing is really being done. nor in the official site, and neither in any trailer.

possibly interested gamers (female or male) will know of the features of the chance to have female character and different races to choose only when the game is been out for years, maybe thanks to a friend who buyed it. exaclty how I learned about femshep. 

If Bioware really wanted to give better advertising to these features, would have already done something more official. not only a few artwork for the loyal people who follow the BSN and the social networks.

 

sorry for my cynical depression.  but I don't really have seen much to feel more hopeful about the argument.

[Mockingword]

They don't want to. What is >2000 year best selling game, Call of Duty. http://en.wikipedia....ing_video_games

So they want to sell it to biggest existent market. Run and gun, action. They don't want to sell game to people who make character for 3 hours. I have no word after watched this part.

http://youtu.be/-KjM9SouVN8?t=2m23s

That whole video is pretty dumb. It's one petty person screaming "NO YOU'RE WRONG, ONLY MY INTERPRETATION IS VALID".

[Nefla]

They don't want to. What is >2000 year best selling game, Call of Duty. http://en.wikipedia....ing_video_games
So they want to sell it to biggest existent market. Run and gun, action. They don't want to sell game to people who make character for 3 hours. I have no word after watched this part.
http://youtu.be/-KjM9SouVN8?t=2m23s
 
And something for fun.

Spoiler

BioWare probably should have made a FPS then...no matter how you advertise it, people who like CoD are not going to like a high fantasy sword and sorcery "nerd" game with slow tactics based, auto attack combat where you have to spend a large part of the game talking to people, choosing dialogue, an sitting through cutscene. The exception is the person has multiple game genre interests and isn't like my cousin who looks down on RPGs as boring "reading games." (But loves FPS)

[Lady Nuggins]

I was going through the official site, and yeah.  I feel like this right here would have been the perfect moment to use the Femquisitor instead:

Spoiler

 

Though I can't tell, but the rogue class looks kind of gender neutral?

Spoiler

 

 

BioWare probably should have made a FPS then...no matter how you advertise it, people who like CoD are not going to like a high fantasy sword and sorcery "nerd" game with slow tactics based, auto attack combat where you have to spend a large part of the game talking to people, choosing dialogue, an sitting through cutscene. The exception is the person has multiple game genre interests and isn't like my cousin who looks down on RPGs as boring "reading games." (But loves FPS)

 

Yeah, while I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between the CoD players and the more hardcore RPG gamers, generally I think those are two pretty distinct demographics.  Trying to disguise this game as something that would appeal to the CoD crowd would probably do more to alienate the RPG fans. 

[Al Foley]

BioWare probably should have made a FPS then...no matter how you advertise it, people who like CoD are not going to like a high fantasy sword and sorcery "nerd" game with slow tactics based, auto attack combat where you have to spend a large part of the game talking to people, choosing dialogue, an sitting through cutscene. The exception is the person has multiple game genre interests and isn't like my cousin who looks down on RPGs as boring "reading games." (But loves FPS)

...I like both. 

[In Exile]

I was going through the official site, and yeah.  I feel like this right here would have been the perfect moment to use the Femquisitor instead:

Spoiler

 

Though I can't tell, but the rogue class looks kind of gender neutral?

Spoiler

 

 

 

Yeah, while I'm sure there's a lot of crossover between the CoD players and the more hardcore RPG gamers, generally I think those are two pretty distinct demographics.  Trying to disguise this game as something that would appeal to the CoD crowd would probably do more to alienate the RPG fans. 

 

Even if you somehow got COD fans to play your game one time, they'd probably just decide the game was crap and move on. Trying to trick people into buying your product won't build your brand. Some people might realize they like the game, but a lot will dislike it and will spread negative stuff via word of mouth the next time. 

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

BioWare probably should have made a FPS then...no matter how you advertise it, people who like CoD are not going to like a high fantasy sword and sorcery "nerd" game with slow tactics based, auto attack combat where you have to spend a large part of the game talking to people, choosing dialogue, an sitting through cutscene. The exception is the person has multiple game genre interests and isn't like my cousin who looks down on RPGs as boring "reading games." (But loves FPS)

I like both games (or, at least, I love COD 4 Modern Warfare), and I don't want either to be like the other.  I don't play XCOM or Civ5 or Deus Ex:HR or Crusader Kings 2 or FO:NV or anything for the same reasons I play ME and DA.  I don't even want ME and DA to feel too similar.  If some fellas ain't interested in what you're making, don't worry too much about it, and don't change the essential nature of what you're making to try and interest those fellas.  The COD players who would like DAI are probably already looking forward to it.

 

Show us other iterations of the inquisitor! (Bitte...)

[Al Foley]

I like both games (or, at least, I love COD 4 Modern Warfare), and I don't want either to be like the other.  I don't play XCOM or Civ5 or Deus Ex:HR or Crusader Kings 2 or FO:NV or anything for the same reasons I play ME and DA.  I don't even want ME and DA to feel too similar.  If some fellas ain't interested in what you're making, don't worry too much about it, and don't change the essential nature of what you're making to try and interest those fellas.  The COD players who would like DAI are probably already looking forward to it.

 

Show us other iterations of the inquisitor! (Bitte...)

Exactly.  I play COD...though I have not played it in a while....especially since I disocovered Bioshock...to kill things and have a good time killing things.  And yes that is in DA as well and I enjoy DAs combat but I also get the character interactions, building a character from the ground up and trying to find a niche for that character and letting that character be them, and to manipulate nad play around with the abilities and figure out how the heck to build these people the right way. 

 

And I look forward to doing that with the Femquisitor.   Which I do hope we get more information soon but I just wonder how much info BioWare actually has to share about her at this point.  We saw a pretty BA Femquisitor for artwork a while back but if her lines have not been recorded its hard to do a trailer would be my guess. 

[WildOrchid]

Though I can't tell, but the rogue class looks kind of gender neutral?

Spoiler

 

 

Looks like a dude to me. The nose and mouth are the same.

And even if it's gender neutral, why then? Why male on one and gender neutral on the other? Why not a woman?

[Nefla]

...I like both. 

 

I like both games (or, at least, I love COD 4 Modern Warfare), and I don't want either to be like the other.  I don't play XCOM or Civ5 or Deus Ex:HR or Crusader Kings 2 or FO:NV or anything for the same reasons I play ME and DA.  I don't even want ME and DA to feel too similar.  If some fellas ain't interested in what you're making, don't worry too much about it, and don't change the essential nature of what you're making to try and interest those fellas.  The COD players who would like DAI are probably already looking forward to it.

 

Show us other iterations of the inquisitor! (Bitte...)

Like I said, there are people who really like more than one genre but not that many. For example I collect dolls and I also love video games. Most of the people on my doll collecting forum don't play video games and wont even try them. There is some overlap but they are really two very different things. If someone made a normal video game and slanted the advertising to trick doll collectors into thinking it was something they would like, most video game fans would probably be turned off by it and when the few doll collectors who were tricked into buying it found out they didn't actually like it they wouldn't buy from that company again and tell all their friends how much it sucks. My point was there's no point in tricking CoD fans into thinking DA is like CoD. It's not. If there are fans of both then those overlap fans will like an RPG for being an RPG. You don't want to alienate people that will actually like your product to try and trick a different group (that will most likely not like it) into possibly buying it.

[Al Foley]

Like I said, there are people who really like more than one genre but not that many. For example I collect dolls and I also love video games. Most of the people on my doll collecting forum don't play video games and wont even try them. There is some overlap but they are really two very different things. If someone made a normal video game and slanted the advertising to trick doll collectors into thinking it was something they would like, most video game fans would probably be turned off by it and when the few doll collectors who were tricked into buying it found out they didn't actually like it they wouldn't buy from that company again and tell all their friends how much it sucks. My point was there's no point in tricking CoD fans into thinking DA is like CoD. It's not. If there are fans of both then those overlap fans will like an RPG for being an RPG. You don't want to alienate people that will actually like your product to try and trick a different group (that will most likely not like it) into possibly buying it.

Agreed, but then the question I have is this a hypothetical or is BioWare doing something with their advertistment to appeal and trick COD players? 

[Lady Nuggins]

Looks like a dude to me. The nose and mouth are the same.

And even if it's gender neutral, why then? Why male on one and gender neutral on the other? Why not a woman?

 

I was desperately trying to be optimistic.  Of course, even if it was intentionally gender-neutral, two classes that are clearly masculine and one that is neutral isn't exactly spectacular.  But seriously, they have three classes, and not one of the examples could have been female?

 

Actually, I'm going through the official site, and I don't see the Femquisitor anywhere at all.  I thought I heard someone say they were starting to add her.  Am I missing something?

[Allan Schumacher]

I was desperately trying to be optimistic.  Of course, even if it was intentionally gender-neutral, two classes that are clearly masculine and one that is neutral isn't exactly spectacular.  But seriously, they have three classes, and not one of the examples could have been female?

 

Actually, I'm going through the official site, and I don't see the Femquisitor anywhere at all.  I thought I heard someone say they were starting to add her.  Am I missing something?

 

 

The lack of Femquisitor on the official page was brought up earlier in this thread, actually.  I think there's been hints that there will be Femquisitor focused content coming soon, but I'm not 100% sure what's been said - it was probably via Twitter.  I think there's still only been a few places where she's been shown recently.

[karushna5]

The usual in some marketing is that the female version of the protagonist is shown in areas that are known to care about it while the mass marketing gets focussed on the guys. Wasn't femShep only online?

Default femQuisitor was shown mostly to us and a bit on Twitter, more "pro women" areas. Most parts of the internet that I have seen people comment on the androgyny of the cover they seem like "feminazis" are taking over. Crazy feminists all that jazz. I think it is telling, what we consider a compromise to many is ridiculous pandering. *shrug*

[karushna5]

What. Chick flicks are usually romantic comedies or just targeted at female fantasies rather than male fantasies. ie. Unlucky girl gets the man of her dreams, played by a heartthrob; instead of the other way round.
 
I'm not sure if Hunger Games is a chick flick, but the Simpsons certainly seems to think so. And it does it without using the traditional roles.
 
and afaict Twillight has very few female charcters? It's mainly a bunch of men worshipping bella isn't it?
 
On the other hand you have something like "Leafie, a hen in the wild" and "Conviction", which are not chick flicks but rather about motherhood and familial love, respectively.

"Chick Flicks" also seem to provide fantasies for very few set of women. The underdog story is rare and the morals, if any, center around beauty and the entire movie is centered on the guy(sometimes, actually half the time, HE is the protagonist) while guy movies center around doing stuff which also leads to the girl. If fashion and love is your chief fantasy, its great. But if you happen to not care about your looks, and your only goal is not a guy, it rings hallow. Even fashionable women probably want to be more James Bond (fashionable man who does stuff and gets the love intrest) than just the girl in 51st dates.

We like active characters, but our own movies usually put us in a passive role. Our movies are usually revenge or romance. And revenge rarely is a guys revenge for a death but more love revenge. Women dont do much in Chick Flicks, most of the time. The romance isnt the issue as much as a complete lack of anything but romance while guys get to do stuff and the romance is the reward, not the goal.

[Bugsie]

I need to start using twitter again then it seems!

 

In regard to who Bioware is trying to encourage to play their games, I can't blame them as a business trying to increase sales through appealing to a wider group of gamers, I mean we're asking them to consider females in marketing for the same reason (although the success of one demographic being marketed too over and other is a point for debate).  My experience is that people who play games like COD are looking for a different experience than what a game like Dragon Age offers (although I suspect aspects like ME3 multiplayer might attract those who would normally not be interested in Bioware products.)  I doubt too many gamers picking it up and finding its not for them are not going to be angry, they'll just move on to another game.

 

I play FPS, some of my favourite games are FPS, but I don't particularly like COD or military shooters in general.  I also don't play online unless its coop like L4D.  In regard to best selling games >2000 that article actually says the best selling game across all platforms is Wii Sports (at 82 million) not COD.  Sales isn't necessarily an indicator of quality though, that article says that for the Atari platform, ET sold 1.5 million... and well we all know about that game and it's supposed awesomeness!  

 

And eh, Smudboy, he makes some interesting points but I can't handle the nitpicking. I find over analysis annoying at the best of times.

[Nefla]

Agreed, but then the question I have is this a hypothetical or is BioWare doing something with their advertistment to appeal and trick COD players?

I don't see them doing that with DA:I marketing, I was replying to a specific post talking about how CoD/etc...is the best selling game and they should go after that crowd an I'm like "its not the same kind of game and doesnt appeal to the same demographic." Also remembering the "we want CoD's players" before DA2. (Which probably lead to the exploding bodies and cartwheeling rogues)

[Stelae]

exactly. Is something I can't really understand. It would just mean type a few words in the dedicated page of the official site (site that should give INFORMATION about the game!!!) is that really so much work to do?   or simply put the image of the artwork with female and male Inquisitor, instead of the dude of the trailer.

It doesn't seem too much to ask.

 

aigh. sadly, I think that everything we have said in this topic is for nothing. few month before the game is out, and nothing is really being done. nor in the official site, and neither in any trailer.

possibly interested gamers (female or male) will know of the features of the chance to have female character and different races to choose only when the game is been out for years, maybe thanks to a friend who buyed it. exaclty how I learned about femshep. 

If Bioware really wanted to give better advertising to these features, would have already done something more official. not only a few artwork for the loyal people who follow the BSN and the social networks.

 

sorry for my cynical depression.  but I don't really have seen much to feel more hopeful about the argument.

It's easy to get depressed when you see the lack of action, not to mention decisions that seem to be a backward step for inclusiveness, but like Alan and others have said, the impetus behind game design and marketing is a big ship, and slow to turn.  I think the decision to make the cover gender-neutral is influenced by discussions like these. I hope for more in the future.  Hell, more NOW would be nice.  But even if a thousand Feminquisitors haven't bloomed, yet, if we keep asking for them, and pointing out that it makes good marketing sense, there's more chance that they will come.

 

We need discussions like this one to show that including female characters in the advertising for a game that prides itself on customisation, and spends oodles of time and money implementing that, is important and smart.  That women gamers are out here, wallets in hand, and relying on word of mouth, prior knowledge or luck to get to us is not a sensible strategy. 

 

There have been so many stories on this thread about how people didn't know about FemShep, for example.  That's good feedback for BW; despite the game getting rave reviews, despite marvellous (many say, superior) voice work by Jennifer Hale, a lot of us didn't know the option was available until someone we knew pointed it out.  Imagine how much better things could have been if BW had had that information before they started marketing ME.  Well, they have it now.  Hopefully, when they are deciding what to do with it, they'll see the opportunity. 

[Tayah]

It's easy to get depressed when you see the lack of action, not to mention decisions that seem to be a backward step for inclusiveness, but like Alan and others have said, the impetus behind game design and marketing is a big ship, and slow to turn.  I think the decision to make the cover gender-neutral is influenced by discussions like these. I hope for more in the future.  Hell, more NOW would be nice.  But even if a thousand Feminquisitors haven't bloomed, yet, if we keep asking for them, and pointing out that it makes good marketing sense, there's more chance that they will come.

 

We need discussions like this one to show that including female characters in the advertising for a game that prides itself on customisation, and spends oodles of time and money implementing that, is important and smart.  That women gamers are out here, wallets in hand, and relying on word of mouth, prior knowledge or luck to get to us is not a sensible strategy. 

 

There have been so many stories on this thread about how people didn't know about FemShep, for example.  That's good feedback for BW; despite the game getting rave reviews, despite marvellous (many say, superior) voice work by Jennifer Hale, a lot of us didn't know the option was available until someone we knew pointed it out.  Imagine how much better things could have been if BW had had that information before they started marketing ME.  Well, they have it now.  Hopefully, when they are deciding what to do with it, they'll see the opportunity. 

I totally agree with this and I am hopeful that if we keep respectfully reminding devs and marketers in this thread and others like it that we are here, that there are good reasons to include marketing to women and any minority really especially in a game with so much customisation available that there will be some steps little by little toward turning that ship. Yeah the cover is a nice step in that direction more information on the website people will go to expecting to find out more about the game would be another. 

 

The lack of Femquisitor on the official page was brought up earlier in this thread, actually.  I think there's been hints that there will be Femquisitor focused content coming soon, but I'm not 100% sure what's been said - it was probably via Twitter.  I think there's still only been a few places where she's been shown recently.

Yep we brought it up earlier even going so far as to scour the website for 'she' references that might hint at a female inquisitor and finding them in the class descriptions only for the specialisations of the warrior and rogue... so two places really. Hints that femquisitor focused content is coming soon are nice though and I hope it does as that would definitely be a step forward too. I don't have or want twitter though so I hope we see that content here and on the main site too   (probably will but I thought I' mention it anyway since I think I'm not the only one who avoids twitter)

[Allan Schumacher]

I encourage people to keep asking about it for sure!

[Kaiser Wilhelm]

I encourage people to keep asking about it for sure!

Herr Schumacher, do you know if other BioWare people ever read this thread?  Or are you our sole champion?  I don't mean to imply that you are in any way inadequate in that capacity, but one man's shoulders can only be so broad;  I hope that others are as interested in this as you have been.

[Al Foley]

With the game going Alpha now I expect to see some content on the Lady Quisitor very very soon.  *drums on table and gives BioWare the evil eye*

 

I just hope the trailer is half as good as 'Reinstated' was.

[Allan Schumacher]

Herr Schumacher, do you know if other BioWare people ever read this thread?  Or are you our sole champion?  I don't mean to imply that you are in any way inadequate in that capacity, but one man's shoulders can only be so broad;  I hope that others are as interested in this as you have been.

 

I don't know if others read this thread, specifically.  I know there are others that know of the request and echo it internally (and externally, like on twitter) too.